[Myzen]

Hi folks,

I've been wondering if denying depression is a male thing, or if we all tend to do it.

I am thinking of three male acquaintances that I have. They are all late middle age. One of them is healthy and the other two are unwell, and unemployed through illness.

Anyway, the funny thing is that the healthy one often says that he is depressed, but the sick ones never use the word about themselves, desite the fact that they are obviously depressed.

Of the two sick ones, both say that they have M.E .( a fatigue syndrome thought to be physically caused, maybe viral). But, both sick guys seems to have physical energy, doing long walks etc. However, they exhibit mood swings, emotional instability, sometimes tearful, and one of them is on high dose prozac.

Neither of the sick guys ever use the term depression about themselves,although they are happy to talk about my depression. There seems to be a real blind spot on this.

Against this, the healthy guy is always talking about being 'depressed' but he really means that he has had a relationship problem and is feeling lonely. His complaints are always about other people, never about himself - which I take to be a sign of typical normality. He doesn't have mood problems, he's just a stubborn type, again a sign of normality.

I believe that here in the UK, and maybe elsewhere, males see depression as a sign of weakness, and something that happens to other people (usually women) but not to ourselves. I've got some residue of the belief myself, (not the women part) even after all these years. I still think that the bottom line is that I have to 'pull myself together' when the going gets tough. Good grief, it's the Bruce Willis approach to mental illness! LOL

This helps me to understand my estranged brother, who would never talk to me about my illness and hasn't been near me for 25 years. I guess he is afraid of contamination. He needs the denial.

So my question is partly about gender and partly about depression. Do men find it harder to cope with depression, or do we all use denial as a coping strategy? Is denying depression a sign of having the illness?

Any answers? I'd like to see a really good debate about this issue, if anyone is up for it.

Cheers, M

[drunksunflower]

If you don't acknowledge it it doesn't exist ...

Works sometimes

[JustBen]

I've known men and women who deny they have problems, but I think it's much more common for men. There are really two different issues, though. There are guys who deny they're depressed altogether, and then there are guys who know they're depressed but just don't want to talk about it. There's a book out there called I DONT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT: OVERCOMING THE SECRET LEGACY OF MALE DEPRESSION. I've been meaning to read it for a while now.

[Lexicon78]

I think men are more in denial about their depression than women are. I mean it's more acceptable for a woman to be depressed than a man, IMO. My bf has that problem a lot. He has schizoaffective disorder and I know he gets depressed. But when you ask him, he flat out denies anything being wrong. Actually he'll never say anything other than "I'm fine." It's really frustrating when you know otherwise.

I think everyone uses denial in some form or another. It just makes it easier. That way we don't have to look at it and don't have to change anything about ourselves.

I don't think denying depression is a sign that you're depressed at all. I'll admit to everyone I know that I suffer from depression. I don't care who knows. I think it all depends on the person and their comfort zone with it. Maybe it has something to do with pride or what each individual determines is acceptable or not.

In the area where I live men denied that they are depresse. Some women will say it but some will hide it too. Suicide is high here because depression is silent.

My husband has depression but he will never say it. He will blame how he feels on situations, environment, on other people, finances, on the whole world and on me. But never because he has an illness called depression. He will simply not admit it.

For so long people who had depression were call "crazy". Society is still ignorant on what this illness is and can do. It's like it is "tabou" to talk about it and for a male it is even a "weakness".

This is really sad.

[Myzen]

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JustBen said:
I've known men and women who deny they have problems, but I think it's much more common for men. There are really two different issues, though. There are guys who deny they're depressed altogether, and then there are guys who know they're depressed but just don't want to talk about it. There's a book out there called I DONT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT: OVERCOMING THE SECRET LEGACY OF MALE DEPRESSION. I've been meaning to read it for a while now.

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Hi Ben,

I'll have a look at that title.

There is a statistical question here that interests me. The literature tells us that depression and some related illnesses are much more common in women than men. But, if men don't own up to it, or don't go the the doctors, then the stats will be skewed. Maybe these illnesses are equally distributed, but men are more likely to suffer in silence?

The two guys I mentioned at the beginning were at the peak of denial. One of them said to me, "I keep feeling emotional!" as if this was the worst that could happen to him. My estranged brother did even better, an absolute classic. While talking about our mother, he said, "I sometimes get feelings like Mum gets, but I have purged my emotions, and it doesn't bother me now."

"Purged my emotions." Good grief - it sounds like something out of a sci-fi film.

If men are working this hard to hold back emotions, and if they see depression as an emotional problem, then we will never get a handle on the extent of it. I know it took me many years to allow myself the luxury of the truth.

Cheers, M

" There is a statistical question here that interests me. The literature tells us that depression and some related illnesses are much more common in women than men."

I think that maybe what the statistic doesn't also say is when a woman reach premenopause or menopause she become so imbalance in so many ways that depression will be part of her daily life for a while. It can be this "physical stage" in her life that will bring depression.

Just my opinion here. It is a subjet that interest me very much. Thank you for posting it.

(((((((((((Myzen)))))))))Take care of yourself ok.

[JustBen]

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There is a statistical question here that interests me. The literature tells us that depression and some related illnesses are much more common in women than men. But, if men don't own up to it, or don't go the the doctors, then the stats will be skewed.

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No doubt about it, and a lot of the research on depression acknowledges this. It's tough because you can't measure what you can't observe. It's probably fair to assume that male depression is more common than the stats would have us believe, but we can't say for sure how much more.

In the old days, everything was judged by the standard of masculinity. So a woman in business might be judged to be "under aggressive" when in fact she was relating to people in an entirely different way. Ironically, women judge men's emotions by the standard of femininity. When they don't open up and share their feelings on a regular basis, many women judge them to be "under emotional" or repressive, or whatever. In reality, men have different ways of expressing emotions from women, and it doesn't make sense to judge them by female standards.

I'm not trying to say that men don't deny their feelings at times, just that the fact that they don't "open up" to others the way women do isn't by itself a sign that there's a problem.

[Myzen]

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JustBen said:
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I'm not trying to say that men don't deny their feelings at times, just that the fact that they don't "open up" to others the way women do isn't by itself a sign that there's a problem.

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Hi Ben,

That's a good observation, very good. You're a step ahead of me here.

Your point might help to explain why I found it so hard to be a 'new man' in my teaching career, because underneath I was just a man.

Cheers, M

[heartspace]

Yes Myzen Id reckon the stats could be skewed if men don't report their depression. Often men dont'feel they can discuss their feelings let alone their negative feelings. Plus they are often expected to be "strong". No wonder they're in denial. It's sad.