[Melodic]

Just wanted to gather thoughts on this - at what point can you say someone is genuinely depressed, or whether they are just attention-seeking? If you don't have any physical symptoms/signs (sleeping problems, eating problems, weight loss, attempting suicide, lying in bed all day), how can you be sure that what you're feeling is real, or whether it's just fabricated by your own mind because it feels better to feel bad and wallow in constant self-pity?

I ask because I definitely feel sad and hopeless most of the time, but I still function well and reason rationally, and don't have the guts to kill myself. I have had suicidal ideation in the past, but I always just wrote that off as shameful immaturity and self-pity especially since I never even acted on it. It feels like I am doing a disservice and trivialising genuinely depressed peoples' feelings if I were to say I was 'depressed'. So, despite feeling like crap for the majority of the last few years, I am 99% convinced that I am not clinically depressed. I am now questioning this.

How do you differentiate the two? And if you are to say "we all feel things differently - depression is always real," is it possible that one day, everyone will trivialise 'depression' and self-pity becomes an excuse?

[jesusplay]

I know when I'm depressed, it's a feeling. When I'm not depressed I know the feeling.

[Rohag]

Popularly, depression is often dismissed as addiction to self-pity. Depression is more officially classed as a mood disorder. From "mood disorder" I infer a degraded ability to influence one's own moods. (I realize this isn't an answer to your question.)

I'm glad you are still able to function well and that common physical symptoms do not trouble you. Nevertheless, "feeling like crap" over the course of months, or even years in your case, is an indicator of something.

Have you parsed out your feelings and their effects in a list you could discuss with a medical doctor?

[Hellion]

Just about everyone is an attention seeker, I mean the majority of people desire some form of relationships with other people...which requires people paying attention to each other....and everyone wants some of that 'attention'. So yeah thinking of just entirely rejecting that term since its irrelevant and useless and only serves to be used to make people feel guilty for visibly showing upset/sadness/anger/frustration ect.

That said if you feel sad and hopeless most of the time and what not its very likely you could have depression. There are also different severities there are people with depression who on the outside appear pretty functional....also it can fluctuate, like I have depression but the severity changes sometimes its pretty subtle but other times its all consuming misery and makes it hard to even get out of bed.

But yeah if not clinical depression, do you have anything particular going on in life that is bothering you....or lots of unhappiness in your current situation because it is also possible to feel sad and hopeless....for good reason which isn't exactly the same as clinical depression since its a normal response to the situation....but even in that case the situation has to be improved or changed to get rid of that sort of depression.

[ThisWayOut]

for a long time I was functioning, but still clinically depressed. I had grown up in an environment where not functioning was just not an option. I still felt like **** though, and met the criteria for depression. When I was finally out of that environment, the crash happened. I think there are relatively few people who actaully "enjoy" being sad. There may be a measure of comfort in it, but the negatives generally out-weigh the positives of living a life "wollowing in self-pity"...
As Rohag suggested, maybe bring this up with your doctor?

[flours]

sometimes I am wondering, too. even though being diagnosed. hard to tell. well I would say that I have been self-pitying in my life before to quite an extend. but this is not a kind of feeling that lasts longer than enjoyable because it was still something I chose. at some point always got bored of it and mostly got angry which turned into some energy to do something about it. now it's different. I am not getting angry about the things that make me miserable. I am just feeling defenseless. with self-pity (if that even exists and I am not so sure either despite writing about it) you are not feeling so defenseless for a long period of time. you would know that you could change something but choose not to.

[Crocky71]

I am experiencing the same symptoms as the OP and was given the diagnosis of Dysthymic Disorder, which is chronic low-grade depression. It felt good to have a NAME for this constant feeling of blah and barely having the emotional energy to get through a day.

With medication and therapy, it's getting easier, but it's still no picnic. I would definitely see about going to a therapist and possibly medication if you feel that will help too.

[Nightworld1066]

Perhaps u have it mildly ask other people they may notice other signs u don't see

[Altered Moment]

For me there are huge differences between being severely depressed (non functional), moderately depressed (functional but just going through the motions), and "normal". I can easily differentiate between them. Mine is cyclical though and I have been dealing with it my whole life so I know it well. Cyclical is different than long term, like something that lasts for a year or more.

Maybe the only way to know is to see if you possess the power to change how you feel. If you change your thinking about things and seek attention in positive ways rather than negative ways does it make a difference. Does changing your attitude towards things make a difference. Maybe some therapy would be needed to do this. Behavior can be learned and hard to break. I think if it is clinical depression it is a tougher nut to crack. Probably only you can answer it. Feeling sad and hopeless for that long is serious. Maybe seek opinions from professionals. I was a functioning alcoholic for many years but the fact that I functioned did not mean I was not an alcoholic.

I have also functioned with moderate depression most of my life with periods of very severe. The fact I functioned did not mean I was not moderately depressed. I think we all want a reasonable amount of happiness and satisfaction in our lives. Going through life sad and hopeless but functioning gets very old and tiring.

[Fuzzybear]

[Nightworld1066]

For me I am rather severe I do occasionally have days where I am better I mean can just about manage 7 hours volunteering in a shop and some studying. But can be pushing it

[Creative1onder]

Originally Posted by Melodic

Just wanted to gather thoughts on this - at what point can you say someone is genuinely depressed, or whether they are just attention-seeking? If you don't have any physical symptoms/signs (sleeping problems, eating problems, weight loss, attempting suicide, lying in bed all day), how can you be sure that what you're feeling is real, or whether it's just fabricated by your own mind because it feels better to feel bad and wallow in constant self-pity?

I ask because I definitely feel sad and hopeless most of the time, but I still function well and reason rationally, and don't have the guts to kill myself. I have had suicidal ideation in the past, but I always just wrote that off as shameful immaturity and self-pity especially since I never even acted on it. It feels like I am doing a disservice and trivialising genuinely depressed peoples' feelings if I were to say I was 'depressed'. So, despite feeling like crap for the majority of the last few years, I am 99% convinced that I am not clinically depressed. I am now questioning this.

How do you differentiate the two? And if you are to say "we all feel things differently - depression is always real," is it possible that one day, everyone will trivialise 'depression' and self-pity becomes an excuse?

Severe depression for me is more like a physical illness than a mental illness. Depression is not created by ones negative thoughts alone. Negative thoughts and feelings are often part of the condition/symtom rather than cause and it is not to do with the individual's personal character.

[Melodic]

Originally Posted by jesusplay

I know when I'm depressed, it's a feeling. When I'm not depressed I know the feeling.

I suppose your symptoms of depression are quite obvious perhaps, which could be a blessing in disguise in some ways.

Originally Posted by Rohag

Popularly, depression is often dismissed as addiction to self-pity. Depression is more officially classed as a mood disorder. From "mood disorder" I infer a degraded ability to influence one's own moods. (I realize this isn't an answer to your question.)

I'm glad you are still able to function well and that common physical symptoms do not trouble you. Nevertheless, "feeling like crap" over the course of months, or even years in your case, is an indicator of something.

Have you parsed out your feelings and their effects in a list you could discuss with a medical doctor?

Yeah, I have definitely been conflicted between seeing it as addiction to self pity vs seeing it as a mood disorder - or rather, been unable to differentiate between the two in ambiguous cases. You are right, I am just so used to feeling like crap for, years and years now, that I don't even notice it because it has become a part of me.

Originally Posted by Hellion

Just about everyone is an attention seeker, I mean the majority of people desire some form of relationships with other people...which requires people paying attention to each other....and everyone wants some of that 'attention'. So yeah thinking of just entirely rejecting that term since its irrelevant and useless and only serves to be used to make people feel guilty for visibly showing upset/sadness/anger/frustration ect.

That said if you feel sad and hopeless most of the time and what not its very likely you could have depression. There are also different severities there are people with depression who on the outside appear pretty functional....also it can fluctuate, like I have depression but the severity changes sometimes its pretty subtle but other times its all consuming misery and makes it hard to even get out of bed.

But yeah if not clinical depression, do you have anything particular going on in life that is bothering you....or lots of unhappiness in your current situation because it is also possible to feel sad and hopeless....for good reason which isn't exactly the same as clinical depression since its a normal response to the situation....but even in that case the situation has to be improved or changed to get rid of that sort of depression.

That's true, humans have an inherent need for attention and validation, and it is invalidating to not acknowledge that, even if people take it to the extreme. The need for attention is genuine, and by telling them to stop seeking attention it only serves to make them feel guilty, as I have done for a long time (and thus suppressed it for years and years). There have been things that have happened that have triggered a deeper depression but I think overall I have just been unhappy and dissatisfied with life in general, like there is a void deep down.

Originally Posted by ThisWayOut

for a long time I was functioning, but still clinically depressed. I had grown up in an environment where not functioning was just not an option. I still felt like **** though, and met the criteria for depression. When I was finally out of that environment, the crash happened. I think there are relatively few people who actaully "enjoy" being sad. There may be a measure of comfort in it, but the negatives generally out-weigh the positives of living a life "wollowing in self-pity"...
As Rohag suggested, maybe bring this up with your doctor?

Yeah, there is a sense of comfort in feeling sad, that's why I am very resistant to changing, and yet, it's not that I 'enjoy' it. I can relate because I have been extremely highly functioning despite feeling so bad for so long. I will probably crash eventually if I don't address it.

Originally Posted by flours

sometimes I am wondering, too. even though being diagnosed. hard to tell. well I would say that I have been self-pitying in my life before to quite an extend. but this is not a kind of feeling that lasts longer than enjoyable because it was still something I chose. at some point always got bored of it and mostly got angry which turned into some energy to do something about it. now it's different. I am not getting angry about the things that make me miserable. I am just feeling defenseless. with self-pity (if that even exists and I am not so sure either despite writing about it) you are not feeling so defenseless for a long period of time. you would know that you could change something but choose not to.

Part of me wonders if self-pity is actually making a conscious choice to NOT make things better when the tools are available to make it better for yourself, but I'm not so sure myself still.

Originally Posted by Crocky71

I am experiencing the same symptoms as the OP and was given the diagnosis of Dysthymic Disorder, which is chronic low-grade depression. It felt good to have a NAME for this constant feeling of blah and barely having the emotional energy to get through a day.

With medication and therapy, it's getting easier, but it's still no picnic. I would definitely see about going to a therapist and possibly medication if you feel that will help too.

Thanks. I self-diagnosed myself with that when I was about 15, but like everything else ignored it and refused to believe it was possible. But I brought it up with my therapist today and she acknowledged that I have been feeling depressed (dysthymic most likely) for years now, and in some ways it is a relief to get that validation for once (that I didn't receive from myself).

Originally Posted by Nightworld1066

Perhaps u have it mildly ask other people they may notice other signs u don't see

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

For me there are huge differences between being severely depressed (non functional), moderately depressed (functional but just going through the motions), and "normal". I can easily differentiate between them. Mine is cyclical though and I have been dealing with it my whole life so I know it well. Cyclical is different than long term, like something that lasts for a year or more.

Maybe the only way to know is to see if you possess the power to change how you feel. If you change your thinking about things and seek attention in positive ways rather than negative ways does it make a difference. Does changing your attitude towards things make a difference. Maybe some therapy would be needed to do this. Behavior can be learned and hard to break. I think if it is clinical depression it is a tougher nut to crack. Probably only you can answer it. Feeling sad and hopeless for that long is serious. Maybe seek opinions from professionals. I was a functioning alcoholic for many years but the fact that I functioned did not mean I was not an alcoholic.

I have also functioned with moderate depression most of my life with periods of very severe. The fact I functioned did not mean I was not moderately depressed. I think we all want a reasonable amount of happiness and satisfaction in our lives. Going through life sad and hopeless but functioning gets very old and tiring.

I definitely am not 'severely depressed' to the point I am non-functional, in fact I've been functional the entire time, but in some ways forcing myself to be functional because I don't want to admit I might be depressed. I'm not sure if I can change my attitude really, because I'm so used to feeling sad and yet invalidating my own feelings that it's scary to change. I am getting therapy though. Your alcohol analogy makes sense to me, that even if I'm functioning I could still be depressed.

Originally Posted by Nightworld1066

For me I am rather severe I do occasionally have days where I am better I mean can just about manage 7 hours volunteering in a shop and some studying. But can be pushing it

Originally Posted by Creative1onder

Severe depression for me is more like a physical illness than a mental illness. Depression is not created by ones negative thoughts alone. Negative thoughts and feelings are often part of the condition/symtom rather than cause and it is not to do with the individual's personal character.

Thanks for everyone's replies. I spoke to my therapist today about this for the first time (previously it's been about anxiety/various other things) and she acknowledged that I have been feeling depressed for a long time but felt so ashamed of it that I refused to acknowledge it and never allowed myself to feel how I really felt. And that made me resent others for allowing themselves to feel exactly how I felt (depressed, attention-seeking, wallowing etc.). It felt strange to have someone finally tell me, who knows me, up front that my feelings are real and not a fabrication of my own mind. And I guess that needing attention is somewhat natural and that I should not feel overly guilty for having this need.

[Altered Moment]

Actually getting our needs met in a healthy way is our responsibility. I don't see it as wallowing in self pity or attention seeking. It is acknowledging what is and doing something about it. That takes a lot of courage. We all need validation for being how we are and we can't help it. Sure we can embellish it and get stuck in patterns but in large part we are how we are and can only try to get better. Many many factors can cause anxiety and depression that are out of our control.

[Creative1onder]

Depression is an illness that affects mind and body. People who don't believe or understand depression as illness think people create it themselves, that they chose to suffer, are weak, and attention seeking. They don't see how depression can be physically difficult.

[regretful]

Depression is incredibly difficult to deal with. There is so much good going on around me, but all I can muster up is sitting here watching it all happen, as if I'm a spectator. The sadness is overwhelming, and I know it all too well. I don't see it as self-pity at all. I didn't create this because if I did, then I'd have to power to destroy it...and I can't...

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by regretful

Depression is incredibly difficult to deal with. There is so much good going on around me, but all I can muster up is sitting here watching it all happen, as if I'm a spectator. The sadness is overwhelming, and I know it all too well. I don't see it as self-pity at all. I didn't create this because if I did, then I'd have to power to destroy it...and I can't...

That is probably one of the worst parts about it in my opinion.

[NowhereUSA]

first, i think it's important to note that needing attention and seeking attention aren't bad. we need attention. we're born needing attention. we're designed to be in relationships - how that looks for each person maybe different (romantic or not, lots of friends or a few), but we need to be seen and heard.

second, i would argue that self-pitying can go hand in hand with depression. depression can make it difficult for us to do much and can twist our perceptions, this can lead to self-pitying behavior.

i would say that attention seeking in the negative sense is born out of ineffective coping skills and possibly an inability to articulate what we need. after years of therapy, now i know what i need and i state it as such. i pick up the phone and i call my best friend and i tell her, "i don't need advice, i just need you to hear me while i talk about how horrible i feel right now" or i tell my husband, "can you just hold me and tell me it's going to be okay?" or "i'm overwhelmed, i need to lie down, go for a walk, get out of the house, can we work this out?"

before i might have started an argument, SI, planned my suicide. i still deal with urges like that but now i have the means to cope *effectively* with my depression.

and taking a minute to self-pity isn't always bad. sometimes we just need to pull in and throw a mini-tantrum about how sucky things are, but it turns ineffective when we start making things to be catastrophic or speaking in absolutes (again, i do think it's a means of coping, just an ineffective one).

[Creative1onder]

Depression is a debilitating illness that can be really isolating to suffer with and when your in a really difficult dark place all you want is peace and support, not to feel alone and trapped.