[MattMVS7]

I am afraid of taking the antidepressants I'm on now and wish to get off of them because I heard that cause brain damage. Many people think that they instead grow new brain cells and such. But here in this article, he says that this is flawed evidence. Also, there are reports of people who have had their lives destroyed by antidepressants who have had permanent anhedonia and many other things as well from these medications.

Here is the article that talks about antidepressants causing brain damage:

Negative Effects of Antidepressants | Mad in America

[ArtsieLady]

Hi, I didn't read the article yet, but I would be weary of jumping to any extreme conclusions, that are based upon things you have read on the internet....however, that is somewhat hypocritical for me to say, as I am getting off of my antidepressants currently (slowly), because of all of the side effects I have experienced over the years, that I am just too sick of to deal with anymore. I do not know about the permanent brain damage claims.......I have been on antidepressants off and on for 10 plus years.....and I am almost 30.....so, if I am brain damaged, I don't think I would even be aware of being this way..... Sad, but true fact!
I think if it's possible to not be on medication, then by all means, take that option........always consult with your doctor before tapering off any medications, however.

That was way more wordy than I anticipated.......sorry

[Altered Moment]

There is no scientific evidence they cause brain damage. Get your info from places like Stanford, John Hopkins, Mayo, Harvard, NIMH, and not mad in America.

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[H3rmit]

It's a good article with tons of scientific references, though I didn't read it in detail. I basically agree with you, and it's one of the two main reasons I don't use those medications. The other one is the short-term effects. In dire cases, perhaps they are useful; some people are content with them. However, if you can change your brain chemistry with exercise, good food, and destress techniques, and if you can manage your life without them, you are far better off, I strongly believe.

They cause neurologic changes that are very long-term or permanent. I think it is fair to call that brain damage, though it can be an inflammatory term that some people will flatly reject.

[nummy]

Well, but then again I also read somewhere that depression causes brain damage. im no scientist, but all i know is I feel better on antidepressants...smarter, more with it. i hardly call that brain damaged.

[I_Aint_Myself]

I would take what's posted on the internet with a pinch of salt as often a source can be unreliable.

In all honestly if it wasn't for the antidepressants I'm on I would not be able to function well at all. As with most medications there can be long term side-effects and drug companies have to make you aware of these so their butts don't get sued.

[H3rmit]

The authors of the article are academics (assistant professors, that is people with PhD in psychology and neuroscience) with connections to some very good research schools, as well as a psychiatrist with 35 years' experience. People who are dismissing this as "stuff on the internet" are not even thinking about the content. Web of Science, a key research resource I use constantly in university to look up the latest research in scientific disciplines, is also on the internet. You have to discriminate a bit with something as huge as the internet.

[Altered Moment]

I believe this is the study they say is flawed. Link at bottom to full study

POPULAR ANTIDEPRESSANTS BOOST BRAIN GROWTH, HOPKINS SCIENTISTS REPORT

I have taken SSRI's and SSNRI's for twenty years and I have not noticed any long term cognitive, memory, or other such problems. I have had the long term sexual side effects.

There are so many studies and conflicting information it is really hard to know. I tend to stick to the major research universities and NIMH for my info.

[Altered Moment]

The most significant info for me are what are peoples real life experiences with them. "What has worked for you." You will find many people say they have been very effective for them for many years and have allowed them a quality of life they would have never had. Then you will find many people who say they have tried a bunch and they just don't work for them. Then you will find people like me who have had limited success. Some work very well, some not at all, and they usually poop out and I have to switch things up. My most recent experience is with Fetzima which straight up lifted me out of a very severe depression for the last five months and I have been able to live a normal happy healthy life. However I have to admit that in recent weeks I have been slipping and I don't know if it is losing effectiveness or not. I once started a thread for people to post on med success stories.

http://forums.psychcentral.com/psych...post-here.html

The former director of NIMH has said the current AD's and the chemical imbalance theory is a step in the right direction (not a myth) but it is far from the whole picture. That there has been too much focus on serotonin soup and they need to go in new directions and build on that knowledge.

One thing that turned me off about madinamerica was an article I read that said all psyche meds cause diabetes. Patently false. They also seem focused on law suits or at least some of the people affiliated with it.

I recently participated in a debate on facebook on these issues and the last post was by a psychiatrist that said he found all the evidence on both sides lacking and that the only important question is "What works for you." If you are scared of them don't take them but the goal still remains the successful treatment of the depression.

[Altered Moment]

I often go to this site.
Home - PubMed - NCBI

NIH collects all the research articles and studies and keeps them in a database. It is searchable and has different filters. Warning though- you may have to wade through lots of titles to find what may be relevant to what you are looking for and there are thousands. Also it is very scientific language. Usually there are summaries and abstracts. Often it will say more study is needed. Some of them are reviews and meta analysis of multiple studies. Usually they are small pieces of the puzzle that they try to build on.

[hope2010]

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

The most significant info for me are what are peoples real life experiences with them. "What has worked for you." You will find many people say they have been very effective for them for many years and have allowed them a quality of life they would have never had. Then you will find many people who say they have tried a bunch and they just don't work for them. Then you will find people like me who have had limited success. Some work very well, some not at all, and they usually poop out and I have to switch things up. My most recent experience is with Fetzima which straight up lifted me out of a very severe depression for the last five months and I have been able to live a normal happy healthy life. However I have to admit that in recent weeks I have been slipping and I don't know if it is losing effectiveness or not. I once started a thread for people to post on med success stories.

http://forums.psychcentral.com/psych...post-here.html

The former director of NIMH has said the current AD's and the chemical imbalance theory is a step in the right direction (not a myth) but it is far from the whole picture. That there has been too much focus on serotonin soup and they need to go in new directions and build on that knowledge.

One thing that turned me off about madinamerica was an article I read that said all psyche meds cause diabetes. Patently false. They also seem focused on law suits or at least some of the people affiliated with it.

I recently participated in a debate on facebook on these issues and the last post was by a psychiatrist that said he found all the evidence on both sides lacking and that the only important question is "What works for you." If you are scared of them don't take them but the goal still remains the successful treatment of the depression.

Thank you for this post, thanks to all of you that share your opinion here, am always learn something, or agree or respectfully disagree with someone, I agree with zinco145, that's is my way of thinking about this issue.
"The only important question is "What works for you." If you are scared of them don't take them but the goal still remains the successful treatment of the depression."zinco145

[PoorPrincess]

Originally Posted by H3rmit

The authors of the article are academics (assistant professors, that is people with PhD in psychology and neuroscience) with connections to some very good research schools, as well as a psychiatrist with 35 years' experience. People who are dismissing this as "stuff on the internet" are not even thinking about the content. Web of Science, a key research resource I use constantly in university to look up the latest research in scientific disciplines, is also on the internet. You have to discriminate a bit with something as huge as the internet.

Very well said, H3rmit. Your academic experience is standing you well.
I added some emphasis to your quote in hopes that others may truly grasp the truth of which you speak.

Discrimination is a learned skill, a tool, and vital to university/academic survival, as we know. Some have not had the experience to hone that skill, nor to discern valid research from 'junk research'.

The qualifications of the researchers, from very good research schools, as you pointed out, can be discerned by going to the original research publication info to verify legitimacy. Of course, that takes some perhaps academic inquisitiveness, some time and effort, but will sharpen skills of perception and accuracy in comments, for all of us here and other meaty thread discussions.

Here, for ease, is the original research publication citation
and as well the link to the research publisher's pedigree, if you will:
About Frontiers | Academic Journals and Research Community

Front. Psychol., 24 April 2012 | doi: 10.3389/fpsyg.2012.00117
Primum non nocere: an evolutionary analysis of whether antidepressants do more harm than good
Paul W. Andrews1,2*, J. Anderson Thomson Jr.3,4, Ananda Amstadter2 and Michael C. Neale2
1 Department of Psychology, Neuroscience and Behaviour, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON, Canada
2 Virginia Institute for Psychiatric and Behavioral Genetics, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA, USA
3 Counseling and Psychological Services, Student Health, University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA, USA
4 Institute of Law, Psychiatry and Public Policy, University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA, USA

[H3rmit]

>The most significant info for me are what are peoples real life experiences with them. "What has worked for you."

Agreed. And I've seen long-term that ADs have seemingly destroyed people I know and short-term caused changes in me that were extremely disturbing.

We need science, because anecdotal evidence is a small part of the picture and lacking in rigour. Yet, we have to make choices in our lives, whether we have excellent info or not. Usually, we have very incomplete info and we have to take action. Hunches are important. That's my last word in this conversation. Going to bow out now.

[Altered Moment]

Yet, we have to make choices in our lives, whether we have excellent info or not. Usually, we have very incomplete info and we have to take action. Hunches are important.

That is the sad truth. Not enough study and not enough knowledge on the whole thing. I have often relied on intuition in making my decisions. Mine is very severe when I have it and I have been willing to take risks. I think for many things get so bad they feel forced into trying anything that may work.

Diet, exercise, therapy, meditation, etc often don't put a dent in it. At least not for me and I have been throwing everything including the kitchen sink at it for twenty years.

[TheOriginalMe]

To my mind, living causes brain damage. Each time cells regenerate some will mutate, mostly this is very minor and unimportant but sometimes it is catastrophic causing disease or permanent structural changes. This happens throughout our lifetime, it is called ageing. Some substances and lifestyle choices are known to accelerate the process drastically, while eating better, exercising more, avoiding alcohol, tobacco etc can help slow down ageing.

I don't know whether anti-depressants cause brain damage or not and even if they do is the risk any greater than any of the other risk factors that are out there? My question to anyone who fears that anti-depressants may be harmful is do you avoid alcohol, tobacco, street drugs, pesticides, antibiotics, otc remedies, herbal remedies (often the provenance of these is unknown), sugar, fat, artificial sweetners, etc, etc, etc? If not, why not because they can all be harmful?

I'm not saying don't be suspicious of what you choose to put into your body, but for me the benefits of anti-depressants outweigh the risks.

[Altered Moment]

We had a long thread at one point on the stress that mental illness causes because of how it affects our lives. That stress and related hormones can have very detrimental health effects including making mental illness worse. If meds help they reduce stress and therefore improve health in my view. Stress is a big deal.

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[venusss]

The former director of NIMH has said the current AD's and the chemical imbalance theory is a step in the right direction (not a myth) but it is far from the whole picture. That there has been too much focus on serotonin soup and they need to go in new directions and build on that knowledge.

or not http://forums.psychcentral.com/news-...epression.html

[venusss]

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

We had a long thread at one point on the stress that mental illness causes because of how it affects our lives. That stress and related hormones can have very detrimental health effects including making mental illness worse. If meds help they reduce stress and therefore improve health in my view. Stress is a big deal.

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And I said that meds reduce response to the stress, not actual levels of stress.

If I take a pill, or natural supplement, I may feel better. But the deadlines are still in existance, the wage still could be better, the war is still looming not so far from my place... It is there.

Over here we have cold recipes involving warm booze and it goes like "you are still sick, but you don't care anymore". That might be as well how many of the psychedrugs work. (that is until they stop working and leave you in the same situation as you were before).

To elimanate stress, one often has to eliminate stress. MI is being allergic to stress, lowers ability to handle it, but I don't believe it generates stress on its own without interactions with your environment (feel free to call my psychopath who doesn't understand MI, but that won't change my view, wink wink). Of course, you cannot eliminate all stress in your life, but lots of things you can change.

Psyche drugs are painkillers for the soul. They eliminate the response to hurt, the psychological pain... but they are not curing the cause.

As for brain damage... ADs certainly affect your brain and it takes long time to readjust. Much longer than doctors like to admit.

[venusss]

I don't know whether anti-depressants cause brain damage or not and even if they do is the risk any greater than any of the other risk factors that are out there? My question to anyone who fears that anti-depressants may be harmful is do you avoid alcohol, tobacco, street drugs, pesticides, antibiotics, otc remedies, herbal remedies (often the provenance of these is unknown), sugar, fat, artificial sweetners, etc, etc, etc? If not, why not because they can all be harmful?

I *do* take herbals of KNOWN origin, drink alcohol or coffee (I try to limit the amounts though). Don't take OTC pills, or anti-biotic unless absolutely necesary, try to buy organic and try to avoid chemistry in food. I use limited amounts of sugar, don't smoke or do drugs (not counting very very occasional joint now and then). I try to live healthy.

The problem with these things is... they combine. If you wash down your Prozace with some diet coke and nom some "food" loaded with chemistry and pop a painkiller each time your head hurts a bit, drink hectoliters of coffee to get your body working after being hungover from the last night's sleeping pill, smoke and generally live bad... it's the combination what kills you, not a single thing. So imho, if you feel psyche drugs are helping you... certainly take them... but you have to live even healthier, because every medicine is rough on your body, no matter the benefits.

[Altered Moment]

Venus I am curious if you have ever taken psyche meds?

For me having a very large amount of experience with alcohol, street drugs, and psyche meds, I can tell you there is a vast difference.

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[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

And I said that meds reduce response to the stress, not actual levels of stress.

If I take a pill, or natural supplement, I may feel better. But the deadlines are still in existance, the wage still could be better, the war is still looming not so far from my place... It is there.

If I have a job to do and I am not in a depression, I am full of self confidence and I just do what I have to do to do the job. There is no stress response. If meds are playing a role in not having depression then they eliminate stress. I can work, make money, pay bills, and not trip. No stress response in the first place.

If I have a job to do and I am in a depression then I have a lack of energy, lack of motivation, and a lack of self confidence. I get very worried I will not be able to do the job or I will screw it up, or I will bail half way through. This creates stress and anxiety. Stress response. If it is so bad that I can't work than I can't make money and can't pay bills which creates an enormous amount of stress and anxiety and low self worth and makes everything worse.

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Psyche drugs are painkillers for the soul. They eliminate the response to hurt, the psychological pain... but they are not curing the cause.

I disagree. If my meds are working as is currently the case then I feel the full range of human emotions. They do not numb me from hurt or sadness or eliminate psychological pain.

For example, I put my daughter on a plane back to CA a few weeks ago after she had spent the whole summer with me in Michigan. It was the hardest departure for either one of us and we have had many. I cried at the security line. Then I cried all the way to my car when she was gone. I was extremely sad for a couple of days before and a couple of days after. Normal reaction.

Depression for me is far far different than that. Depression makes me totally numb. Physically extremely tired. No energy, no motivation, sleep rhythms off, appetite off. It is much more than an emotional thing. For me the cause has little to do with emotion but it does effect me emotionally in that it makes me totally flat and numb. Neither psyche meds or depression have anything to do with my soul.....for me. My soul is who I am and when not depressed I am much more in touch with that.

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

or not [url]http://forums.psychcentral.com/news-headlines/354550-mice-study-suggests-lack-serotonin-not-behind-depression.html

"Another surprising finding is that when put under stress, the knockout mice behaved in the same way most of the normal mice did. And some of the knockout mice responded therapeutically to antidepressant medications in a similar manner to the normal mice."
^ from above article.

Why would the knockout mice respond therapeutically to anti depressants?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23089640/

I don't think there is much doubt that mono amines and their transporter receptors or lack of receptors play a role somehow in mental illness. They can't measure their levels in a living human brain. Some recent evidence suggests it could be a lack of certain transporter receptors. They can't say much about the mechanisms of action of AD's in a living human brain. Just by animal models.

Article on knock out mice and 5HT receptors and use of those mice.

http://www.neuropharmacologie.u-psud.fr/Alain_Gardier_files/19179848.pdf

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[spoketybacon]

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

There is no scientific evidence they cause brain damage. Get your info from places like Stanford, John Hopkins, Mayo, Harvard, NIMH, and not mad in America.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've talked to people with anhedonia that they feel may be a result of permanent brain damage. These people have been of medication for over a year or so and their still waiting to get their emotions back. I feel the same sever anhedonia but I got it from anti-psychotics it seems most people have got it from anti-depressants. It's the type of feeling where you want to die but for some reason you can't take your life because you're afraid of the after life many people have said that. These people are being tortured. They only can hope that one day they will be healed. It's such a rare type of side effect that it's not even listed as a possible side effect. Doctors don't even know what it is, I had to find out online what the possible damage can be done and how long you have to wait after you get off meds for your emotions to come back. It's horrible.

[vital]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I am afraid of taking the antidepressants I'm on now and wish to get off of them because I heard that cause brain damage. Many people think that they instead grow new brain cells and such. But here in this article, he says that this is flawed evidence. Also, there are reports of people who have had their lives destroyed by antidepressants who have had permanent anhedonia and many other things as well from these medications.

Here is the article that talks about antidepressants causing brain damage:

Negative Effects of Antidepressants | Mad in America

Hi MattMVS,

Thanks very much for that link!

I think that to any reasonable person taking or thinking about taking antidepressants, this information is VERY concerning at the very least. Given that, I think it makes lots of sense to just try all of the safe, healthy non-drug ways to improve depression BEFORE thinking about taking these drugs. Doesn't that make sense? There are lots of things to try, and many have quite a good chance of making a major improvement. I've made a partial list in post #74 of this thread

http://forums.psychcentral.com/depre...escaped-8.html

which includes links to inspirational success stories even at this site.

Remember, there is a huge multi-billion dollar industry advertising these drugs and, of course, no such industry promoting, say, meditation or exercise or vitamins or improving your diet.

- vital