[little turtle]

I am really impressed with the website MAD IN AMERICA... I talked with the head guy at a conference...he is for real..meds can be very dangerous...I have had many problems with the meds I have taken..some have helped....
the mad in America guy is robert whitaker...

[CANDC]

Well I am not sure about that website, but I want to say that without meds many people have a less happy life style and may even have very dangerous thoughts and actions. It is a matter of how bad things are without meds. Also some newer meds have less side affects.

Each person finds meds that work for them. If meds are not working well for you, tell your psych doc and ask them to modify your med treatment plan.

[Mountainbard]

with CANDC... don't know the website, do know there are anti-meds crusaders out there.... always wonder if they've ever had to deal w/MI... yes a few folks are blessed to be able to w/o meds, but "without meds many people have a [much] less happy lifestyle"...finding the right meds is like a customization process... and there definitely are newer meds out there with a lot fewer side effects

[little turtle]

Originally Posted by CANDC

Well I am not sure about that website, but I want to say that without meds many people have a less happy life style and may even have very dangerous thoughts and actions. It is a matter of how bad things are without meds. Also some newer meds have less side affects.

Each person finds meds that work for them. If meds are not working well for you, tell your psych doc and ask them to modify your med treatment plan.

candc---each person needs to find what is best for them...have you looked at that website...what do you think..

[little turtle]

Originally Posted by Mountainbard

with CANDC... don't know the website, do know there are anti-meds crusaders out there.... always wonder if they've ever had to deal w/MI... yes a few folks are blessed to be able to w/o meds, but "without meds many people have a [much] less happy lifestyle"...finding the right meds is like a customization process... and there definitely are newer meds out there with a lot fewer side effects

mountainbard....I agree also... but I think that we need to look at both sides...
each person needs to find what works for them...I have been on meds for 40 years but I am working on alternatives...I will stay on my meds until I find something better....I never want to go back to that hell hole...we don't know what is causing all of this mental illness..

[little turtle]

Robert whitaker has some important information about the dangers and risks of taking meds....you need to know both good and bad...we are too quick to use meds...especially with young kids...

I think maybe there is a fine line to walk here and not everyone can see it. Meds are good. Meds are bad. Both statements can be true. I don't watch commercial tv but somehow every time I'm in the vicinity of one I hear a commercial for some new med... "ask your doctor about it."

[IrisBloom]

There are those who say no one needs meds. They are wrong. There are those who say everyone needs meds. They are wrong. I'm not a doctor and never wanted to be, but I do know myself and have learned things that apply to me and other sufferers throughout the years of my treatment. If you or anyone has beat their MI without meds, I'm very happy for you. I'd like for anyone who tells me I don't need meds to walk in my shoes for a year.

***I'm not denigrating any other treatments. I know there are no-med treatments that work. I just know what works for me.

[venusss]

It is a good side. And very good anti-dote to all the pharma back "take your meds" BS.

[little turtle]

Originally Posted by IrisBloom

There are those who say no one needs meds. They are wrong. There are those who say everyone needs meds. They are wrong. I'm not a doctor and never wanted to be, but I do know myself and have learned things that apply to me and other sufferers throughout the years of my treatment. If you or anyone has beat their MI without meds, I'm very happy for you. I'd like for anyone who tells me I don't need meds to walk in my shoes for a year.

***I'm not denigrating any other treatments. I know there are no-med treatments that work. I just know what works for me.

you are right irisbloom....each person knows what has worked for them...

Also interesting is that majority of countries try to uphold a certain standard pf ethics; most do not allow direct to users ads on drugs->

Only two countries as of 2008 allow direct to users advertising (DTCA): the United States and New Zealand. Since the late 1970s, DTCA of prescription drugs has become important in the United States.

[Clara22]

They are not talking just about meds. They are talking about human rights abuses against people with mental health conditions. We should be aware of all these issues and point of views

[marmaduke]

The anti meds brigade irritate me big time.
They talk a load of rot.
If some people can manage without meds, good. But many can't. The last thing they need is to be made to feel bad about that.

In the UK meds are not advertised, not pushed like they are in US.

To have a therapist is unusual.
Benzos are not often prescribed.
Children are rarely medicated.

Advertising meds is not a good idea.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[IrisBloom]

I agree, Marmaduke.

Little Turtle - I checked out the site. I've heard of Roger Whitaker. I recognize some of the contributors as well, who are very legit professionals. Dr. Kelly Brogan (MD) trained and practiced traditional psychiatry and is very well respected. I watched a fantastic mental wellness series earlier this year and she was one of the guest speakers. She was seeing limited success in her traditional practice, started researching on her own and discovered that the VAST majority of her clients could completely defeat their depression by changing diet! She is now pretty shunned by her conventionally trained colleagues, but she is witnessing incredible successes with her patients. It's nearly impossible to get an appointment with her. She and many other progressive health professionals of many specialties (MDs, DOs, cardiologists, etc) realize that in all their medical training, from the top tier medical schools down, they never received any training on nutrition and its impacts on health.

Anyway, I appreciate you posting this . . . maybe some forum members will be open to new information that could help them. I did not interpret anything in your post as suggesting meds are good or bad, it was just information sharing, yes?

Drugs are just one tool in a toolbox. The toolbox is expanding . . .



P.S. I went gluten free over 10 yrs ago - literally, within 2 weeks I felt like I was on uppers. Still gluten free . . . not a panacea, but I know if I weren't gluten free I would be making my life experience much, much worse than it needs to be.

One part of the discussion is that indeed, some need medication to function(mental and physical ailments). The other part is that those making a living from patients are sometimes known to apply sleasy tacics to get as much profit out of patients as possible, eg:

Pharma companies trying to extend their patents on meds with unorthodox measures; pharma companies marketing meds they used to treat one illness for a completely different illness to maximize profits once the patent expired. Pharma companies sponsoring doctors to market their meds to not just adults, but recently also children and even pets. Pharma companies falsifying testing results on new drugs and collaborating with insurances and medical alliances to shift the responsibility for risks to patients. Insurances and pharma companies driving doctors out of business that uccessfully treat illnesses without a toxic amount of pharmaceuticals.

Think one should keep in mind that the health industry is a business and as much as you may adore your doctor or t, it is always wise to think independently and keep things in perspective. Ads are usually misleading, some doctors can apply manipulative tactics to make you take the drug he gets from his partner pharma company (happened to me). As often, the solution is to get educated.

There is a lot going on between these billion dollar industriesthat we dont know, but we should neverforget that they want to make money, and that is made with chronically ill people. Lots of information can be accessed online though. I personally would welcome stricter checks on doctors, medical research institutions etc and more legal responsibility for insurance and pharma companies.. but a lot would need to change to get there.

There is not nearly enough money in researhing certain illnesses but lots of money is dedicated to beinging new meds on the market and inventing new problems (female viagra anyone?) If you have one of these little researched illneses, or one whose treatment has been made a political debate; or one like cancer where youd think we had the key to solving it by now- you will inevitably realize the effect of the greedy decisions made by this industry and understand how little the patient actually matters.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by marmaduke

The anti meds brigade irritate me big time.
They talk a load of rot.
If some people can manage without meds, good. But many can't. The last thing they need is to be made to feel bad about that.

In the UK meds are not advertised, not pushed like they are in US.

To have a therapist is unusual.
Benzos are not often prescribed.
Children are rarely medicated.

Advertising meds is not a good idea.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Pro-med brigade irritates me too. For some meds work. Good for them. But for many don't. And these are then treated like crap by doctors, it's their fault apparently the drugs are ****, they are told they don't want to get better, they should be will wreck their bodies and brains, and then accept being fat zombie without any feelings but plenty additional issues is "better". These people are already made feel bad about it.

And then there are people who are in bad place objectivelly, anxious and depressed, for good reason, they go to doctor because somewhere on the way they got the idea it's good thing to do. They get pills. Pills make them feel better, but instead of getting them off, their doctors are throwing more and more pills on them saying it's not the pills, it's the illness. So from relativelly healthy person with few issues that could be worked on, person becomes a walking pill box.

[little turtle]

I am angry....I don't like the way people are being treated...I am disgusted with this $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ world....I want a world that pays attention to people not things..
I am sick of us praying at the temple for more money...

[marmaduke]

I'm not pro or anti I'm for whatever suites the individual.
Though I believe most bi polar people need meds to be stable.

Am I wrong folks? Tell me

I really struggle with the eat healthy, go for a walk and you'll be fine brigade though. If only.
OK.
Exceptions prove the rule, if it works for you all I can say is either you are not really bi polar, or you are one freaking lucky dude.

I hate the fact money rules the world, and one day I believe it won't be like that we will evolved into higher beings. Like on Star Trek.
That if we don't destroy ourselves with our ruthless materistic greed first! 💰💰💰

Here's hoping ☺

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[venusss]

Marmaduke, I think in many cases BP can be managed without meds. There are few people in BP forum who do so and plenty elsewhere.

Meds make it easier for those for whom they work. If you are lucky enough to be able to handle them without horrendous side effects and get the good effects... then why not. But there is a huge percentage of people for whom meds don't work. And these need places to discuss how to make themselves well.

[venusss]

Also, I am BP, don't take meds and I don't consider myself lucky. I work way too hard for what I have now.

For many reasons I want to just stay out of the system, because I don't think I would get there what I need and it might cause even more damage.

For me eating healthy and having enough moving around helps. If I don't have that, it makes things worse. It doesn't help with the existential aspects of my condition, there is spirituality for that. And channeling that feelings in various ways.

"lucky" and "not really bipolar" are the basic arguments used to dismiss the alternative thoughts.

[marmaduke]

Yeah. I think you do work hard.

I have a friend who has come off meds, I can understand why. They want to be themselves and feel. Meds can numb which gets boring.
Doing well at the moment ☺☺☺

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[little turtle]

I think the important thing is to keep an open mind....there are no miracles here...
I am most interested in how people[us] get screwed over...there is evidence now that pre-diabetes is a problem for depressed persons...if you have pre-diabetes you need to know this...

Originally Posted by little turtle

I am angry....I don't like the way people are being treated...I am disgusted with this $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ world....I want a world that pays attention to people not things..
I am sick of us praying at the temple for more money...

Amen.

Society teaches us that all worth, including self-worth, equates to money. No Bueno.

Confession: I still like a nice pair of shoes.

[jacky8807]

Originally Posted by little turtle

I think the important thing is to keep an open mind....there are no miracles here...
I am most interested in how people[us] get screwed over...there is evidence now that pre-diabetes is a problem for depressed persons...if you have pre-diabetes you need to know this...

But what is the correlation?

Could be depressed ppl have a poor diet and exercise regime
Could be depressed ppl are on antipsychotics that raise blood sugar