[MtnTime2896]

Spend one single day in the shoes of those who deal with intense SI, those who are so down they can't lift their head off of the pillow, those who are so overwhelmed by anxiety they can't go shopping in normal hours of a day. Spend one day wanting to end all of the pain you're currently feeling. Then, maybe, just maybe you'll get it. And maybe you'll see that we are not weak.

And I swear, I hear one more person tell me that someone who commits suicide was 'too weak to handle the world'; I'm going to lose it. You think it's the "easy way out"? Who the **** actually wants that as their only option to stop the pain? It's the most difficult choice to make, ever. And maybe if you weren't such a self-righteous, hard-headed, stubborn jackass; you would see how many attempts to get better that person made, because they didn't want to hurt those they loved.

(This isn't about anyone on PC. I'm really just venting.)

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by Só leigheas

Spend one single day in the shoes of those who deal with intense SI, those who are so down they can't lift their head off of the pillow, those who are so overwhelmed by anxiety they can't go shopping in normal hours of a day. Spend one day wanting to end all of the pain you're currently feeling. Then, maybe, just maybe you'll get it. And maybe you'll see that we are not weak.

And I swear, I hear one more person tell me that someone who commits suicide was 'too weak to handle the world'; I'm going to lose it. You think it's the "easy way out"? Who the **** actually wants that as their only option to stop the pain? It's the most difficult choice to make, ever. And maybe if you weren't such a self-righteous, hard-headed, stubborn jackass; you would see how many attempts to get better that person made, because they didn't want to hurt those they loved.

(This isn't about anyone on PC. I'm really just venting.)

Not sure how many times I have said similar words. Problem is - its like us trying to imagine what its like not to be able to smell. Doesn't seem major. But the sense of smell can let you know when something you are cooking starts to burn. Your balance is actually affected by not being able to use the nose properly, all sorts of little things make life a bit more difficult - for something that to others seems laughable.

For someone who has never been through mental illness problems - imagining their intensity or the desparation it causes as you try to cone up with solution after solution ... is next to impossible. There are some that will sympathize - but sympathy only goes so far before it becomes "I am tired of this now".

No, its not right for them to belittle and berate us...and I will not sayvit is.

I will say its a lot like the abused child that equates love with abuse. Those children do that because that's the life they have always known.

These people berate and belittle because we seem to threaten the only world they've ever known.

Perhaps one day we will all be able to communicate with one another so nobody has to guess the magnitude of the emotuin. That would be nice...

Until then - we just gotta keep trying to be strong while we search for people that can n will support us as we travel our path to healing

[Clara22]

Maybe I am too tough but I think that some people are too opinionated. They should shut their mouths instead of being judgmental about the lives of other people, and about stuff they know nothing about. They just drive me nuts. Particularly having a visible disability is like a martyrdom by hearing all kind of unwanted and unsolicited advice, prejudices, etc.

[BrownHat22]

People like that don't know what it's like to be scared of themselves. To truly fear what they are capable of doing to themselves. People who say suicide is for the weak don't know how strong you have to be to fight it off.

[Fuzzybear]

Maybe one day they will remove their heads from their butts and perceive the truth that we are far from weak! We battle intense pain every day they can't comprehend.. we are strong beyond their understanding to survive for one day!

Some people ("normals") with their prejudices and boring but toxic judgements make me tired and sad... and angry too

[wiretwister]

I was conversing with my T (a late 20ish female) one session and severe depression came up ... it took about 10 seconds to see her only knowledge of this was from a book (maybe not her fault) , as soon as she opened her mouth and stuck her foot in it ... I explained as best as I could what it was like (I called my si foe the black Beastie) ... the darkest hole I have ever been in ... and I pray never go there again ...

I believe I really scared her .. she never wanted to talk about it again ... ( some people mean well but just have no clue ... I would not even believed how bad it can get myself if I had not lived (survived) it ...

many have been there my friend ... you will survive if you want ... I would not blow smoke at you ... it will be the hardest thing you will ever do .. and the most important ...

stay here , pc got me thru ... it will you too ................. be well my friend .. Tigger.



ps: when I talk of the beastie I must add: thanks soonkyu , sorry , but I owe her that.

[MickeyCheeky]

I hear all of you. It's hard for people who don't have MI to understand..

[lotusblossom19]

Yes, it takes more strength to deal with this than people around me can understand. They might listen, but it's like I'm never actually heard. I try not to allow myself to get frustrated, but it's tough at times.

And this is exactly why I regard those who treat people with MI in that manner as "lesser beings" or "subhumans".

People who have lived such sheltered lives that they want for nothing, yet they have the gall to go around judging people who have endured more hardship in their lives than their sheltered weakling selves could even handle in a week are the lowest form of humanity.

Weakness from such pathetic cowardly scum should not be tolerated.

[subtle lights]

I think most of my friends see suicide as "weakness, not being strong enough" etc. I'm not sharing my thoughts with them about this nor my issues. Maybe it would help to be open with them and they might get a different perspective but I am unable to face their criticism lately.

Yeah, it's hard to imagine something you haven't experienced, but how hard it is to be open minded and accept whatever the other person is going through as valid?

My ex-boyfriend shared the same opinion, we used to have fights about this.

Possible trigger:

He once told me that he once met a very suicidal person and he basically confirmed to this person that he should follow through with his intent. He basically talked him into it. Like, "he was weak anyway".
I just couldn't accept that my bf could have been the same person to do something like this. I had to erase it from my mind and rationalise it, until we broke up years later.
I don't know if that person had actually killed himself. Possible that my ex told me but my brain deleted that part from my accessble memory.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by subtle lights

I think most of my friends see suicide as "weakness, nit being strong enough" etc. I'm not sharing my thoughts with them about this nor my issues. Maybe it would helo to be open with them and they might get a different perspective but I am unable to face their criticism lately.

Yeah, it's hard to imagine something you haven't experienced, but how hard it is to be open minded and accept whatever the other person is going through as valid?

My ex-boyfriend shared the same opinion, we used to have fights about this.

Possible trigger:

He once told me that he once met a very suicidal person and he basically confirmed to this person that he should follow through with his intent. He basically talked him into it. Like, "he was weak anyway".
I just couldn't accept that my bf could have been the same person to do something like this. I had to erase it from my mind and rationalise it, until we broke up years later.
I don't know if that person had actually killed himself. Possible that my ex told me but my brain deleted that part from my accessble memory.

It isn't hard to be open minded and accept it as valid - but it can become tiring after a time for the person who doesn't know what it's like because they have to constantly remind themselves what brings them great joy might bring you great pain and try to be supportive and patient. Patience in itself is taxing - but especially when you don't understand what it is you are being patient about.

Your ex on the other hand - took it to a different level. That isn't just lack of support or getting tired of it or even callousness - that is being destructive to another person and emotionally abusive to someone who is already frail.

You are right though - educating people around you, creates less stigma and enhances the conduciveness for support.

[subtle lights]

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

It isn't hard to be open minded and accept it as valid - but it can become tiring after a time for the person who doesn't know what it's like because they have to constantly remind themselves what brings them great joy might bring you great pain and try to be supportive and patient. Patience in itself is taxing - but especially when you don't understand what it is you are being patient about.

I think though for some people it's the pandora's box with their own issues they refuse to face. If they'd let you show the content of your own box it would automatically trigger their own to open.

In the same time it's like two opposing energies. Happy and sad cannot stay together in one space. We are trying to build the bridge between us and others, between sad and happy, but there is no material to stick this two together, no bridge, you just jump and disconnect from the other side.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by subtle lights

I think though for some people it's the pandora's box with their own issues they refuse to face. If they'd let you show the content of your own box it would automatically trigger their own to open.

In the same time it's like two opposing energies. Happy and sad cannot stay together in one space. We are trying to build the bridge between us and others, between sad and happy, but there is no material to stick this two together, no bridge, you just jump and disconnect from the other side.

I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment about happy and sad. I believe two opposites can and should co-exist in the same space in order to balance one another out. In the case of the depressed and non-depressed person ... balancing would be painful for the non-depressed person, it requires they "unwind a bit" which is why many would rather look away - its more fun to be high than to be "middle" or "low", but for the depressed person, balancing would be wondrous - any uplifting experience makes a person feel awesome and balancing the depressed person required "raising them a bit" which is why they seek out happier people looking for help. It's much like basic physics positive ions attract negative ions. At least thats how I view it but we can disagree and its fine. Just wanted to explain my view.

The rest just comes down to a person's personality. Are they selfish? Are they scared? Sometimes their life circumstances get in the way...

Lots of differing factors

Yes, you have jerks. Always will. Even those that are rich and have no health problems at all have jerks harass them and tell them they are no good. But not everyone is that way. Some legitmately do not understand and unless we take extreme initiative to insure they have proper understanding (with no violence intended or used), they most likely never will understand.

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

Yes, you have jerks. Always will. Even those that are rich and have no health problems at all have jerks harass them and tell them they are no good. But not everyone is that way. Some legitmately do not understand and unless we take extreme initiative to insure they have proper understanding (with no violence intended or used), they most likely never will understand.

If you think that we will change the normies by simply educating them, then you are naive.

It's a little know fact of human psychology that a human won't put time into learning something that doesn't benefit or interest them.

With that being said, unless a person is interested in seeking a career is psychology or psychiatry, said person wouldn't be willing to take the time necessary to learn about mental health unless it started to affect them or their family, especially considering that learning would require many to change their world view; something that most people would find too painful or scary to do.

They won't ever care about us unless they are given a reasoning to.

Pain is the one true path to enlightenment. You can't understand such things unless you have had to suffer significant hardship.

If we want them to change, they need to suffer as we do; only then will they understand us.

Otherwise, they won't change.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

If you think that we will change the normies by simply educating them, then you are naive.

It's a little know fact of human psychology that a human won't put time into learning something that doesn't benefit or interest them.

With that being said, unless a person is interested in seeking a career is psychology or psychiatry, said person wouldn't be willing to take the time necessary to learn about mental health unless it started to affect them or their family, especially considering that learning would require many to change their world view; something that most people would find too painful or scary to do.

They won't ever care about us unless they are given a reasoning to.

Pain is the one true path to enlightenment. You can't understand such things unless you have had to suffer significant hardship.

If we want them to change, they need to suffer as we do; only then will they understand us.

Otherwise, they won't change.

Question: Have you ever tried talking to them?

I am not talking about "change", I am talking about "understanding". Two different things. Understanding comes with knowledge. Change comes only with personal choice after receiving knowledge. First step though - is knowledge. Does it hurt to provide knowledge? If so, which hurts more - the way they will undoubtedly act toward you without the knowledge or supplying the knowledge with the possibility of resulting change?

[Sunflower123]

I agree. I look at some people who say that stuff and think you're lucky you don't have mental illness because you just wouldn't make it. I look at people with mental illness as warriors and survivors. Forget what ignorant people say.

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

Question: Have you ever tried talking to them?

I am not talking about "change", I am talking about "understanding". Two different things. Understanding comes with knowledge. Change comes only with personal choice after receiving knowledge. First step though - is knowledge. Does it hurt to provide knowledge? If so, which hurts more - the way they will undoubtedly act toward you without the knowledge or supplying the knowledge with the possibility of resulting change?

Why waste my time with such trivial matters? They are incapable of understanding a deep and complex individual such as myself.

A wolf has no regard for the opinions of sheep.

Until they become wolves themselves, they're unworthy of my conversation.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

Why waste my time with such trivial matters? They are incapable of understanding a deep and complex individual such as myself.

A wolf has no regard for the opinions of sheep.

Until they become wolves themselves, they're unworthy of my conversation.

Because it calms the situation many times if you educate them about your personal problems.

For instance when I meet someone for the first time I know I will be around for some time that I have reason to believe does not understand BPD or when I first tell them I have it ... I explain "don't worry, it doesn't mean I am a danger to anyone other than myself at times, and despite its name it is in no way related to DID or bipolar" then I laugh a bit and smile and tell them if they have any questions I don't mind them asking. It generally keeps the rumor mill down and keeps the edge off. Along with allowing me a bit more support at times too ... some of them have asked "are you ok? Is there anything I can do?" when they notice I am having a bad day.

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

Because it calms the situation many times if you educate them about your personal problems.

For instance when I meet someone for the first time I know I will be around for some time that I have reason to believe does not understand BPD or when I first tell them I have it ... I explain "don't worry, it doesn't mean I am a danger to anyone other than myself at times, and despite its name it is in no way related to DID or bipolar" then I laugh a bit and smile and tell them if they have any questions I don't mind them asking. It generally keeps the rumor mill down and keeps the edge off. Along with allowing me a bit more support at times too ... some of them have asked "are you ok? Is there anything I can do?" when they notice I am having a bad day.

Then you are better with people than I.

I have low empathy and low emotional intelligence and as such, I have difficulties understanding others or communicating my feelings with people without getting angry or combative when they don't understand.

Even if that weren't the case, I am convinced that nothing that I say would matter to them, especially considering that many people are brainwashed by the mainstream media which makes us out to be these evil monsters that shoot up schools and kill people and what not which isn't the case; will they believe me over a multi billion dollar corporation? Doubtful.

I'm sorry if what I'm saying is upsetting. I'm not good at these type of things.

Thank you for understanding.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

Then you are better with people than I.

I have low empathy and low emotional intelligence and as such, I have difficulties understanding others or communicating my feelings with people without getting angry or combative when they don't understand.

Even if that weren't the case, I am convinced that nothing that I say would matter to them, especially considering that many people are brainwashed by the mainstream media which makes us out to be these evil monsters that shoot up schools and kill people and what not which isn't the case; will they believe me over a multi billion dollar corporation? Doubtful.

I'm sorry if what I'm saying is upsetting. I'm not good at these type of things.

Thank you for understanding.

Even if that weren't the case though,

You are not upsetting me. My other post is not about you. Honestly - the way I started the educating conversation habit... One day I had had enough with one person and screamed my fool head off asking her if she thought it was really so simple to be me and that I could really just get by with anything? Then I went into detail after detail not only about my depression and BPD and PTSD and GAD but all the things that had brought me there. Each time she tried to end the conversation I hollered even louder to embarrass her more. By the time I got to the end - she was in tears. I said "I am sorry I made you cry, I didn't intend to do that, but I am tired of being laughed at and told how easy I have it. If you want to change places with me, please let me know. I will. Any day." She apologized. We never spoke again but I realized then I had broke through to her, just too hard.

[mctone]

How do you explain anything to someone who's mind is closed to believing that what you're saying is true; real? For someone who has never dealt with depression, it's difficult for them to understand what we experience (and overcome) on a daily basis. I guess I've given up on being understood by anyone who is "normal". Could someone explain to me exactly what "normal" is, anyway? Is my "normal" different from your "normal"? Does that make the one above, or beneath the other?

Fortunately, everyone I have met on this site has been so understanding, and non-judgmental, and that's so refreshing. I wish I could hug everyone on here that I have talked with so far... I'll keep trying, and you keep trying, and eventually, everyone will get a hug or two from someone! I like hugs...

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by mctone

How do you explain anything to someone who's mind is closed to believing that what you're saying is true; real? For someone who has never dealt with depression, it's difficult for them to understand what we experience (and overcome) on a daily basis. I guess I've given up on being understood by anyone who is "normal". Could someone explain to me exactly what "normal" is, anyway? Is my "normal" different from your "normal"? Does that make the one above, or beneath the other?

Fortunately, everyone I have met on this site has been so understanding, and non-judgmental, and that's so refreshing. I wish I could hug everyone on here that I have talked with so far... I'll keep trying, and you keep trying, and eventually, everyone will get a hug or two from someone! I like hugs...

Basically - for depression, I had to give them something that they could imagine in a realistic way. I would ask them if they had someone or a pet they loved dearly? Then I would say - ok, now imagine that person/pet died unexpectedly - on that same day you also had your car stolen, you lost your job, and you were evicted. Now you have nowhere to go, no way to find a place, and nobody to turn to - how do you feel? what do you do? Imagine that being your life for months or years and there was nothing you could do to change it, everytime you tried and came close...it all fell apart again. That's depression.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Other than that - you need to be willing to go into the details of what gave you depression and how you feel day to day since then. Sometimes your history will wake them up.

[mctone]

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

Basically - for depression, I had to give them something that they could imagine in a realistic way. I would ask them if they had someone or a pet they loved dearly? Then I would say - ok, now imagine that person/pet died unexpectedly - on that same day you also had your car stolen, you lost your job, and you were evicted. Now you have nowhere to go, no way to find a place, and nobody to turn to - how do you feel? what do you do? Imagine that being your life for months or years and there was nothing you could do to change it, everytime you tried and came close...it all fell apart again. That's depression.

That's a very realistic description of what depression feels like, like your entire world came tumbling down at your feet, and when you looked down at everything, you even noticed there were new holes in your old shoes... Thanks for that, Crypts!

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by mctone

That's a very realistic description of what depression feels like, like your entire world came tumbling down at your feet, and when you looked down at everything, you even noticed there were new holes in your old shoes... Thanks for that, Crypts!

You're welcome