[Twitch99]

Sometimes i am asked "well what would you want therapists to do [If not try and force you into a hospital]?"
As of late I have been seeing images/thinking of how it would look if I killed myself in a particular way. Now I know if I told this to a therapist they would freak out and have me committed, but listen to exactly what I am saying rather than assuming and putting words in my mouth. I did not say I was going to kill myself. I only said I had been seeing in my head what it would look like. No I'm not having hallucinations. It's no different than walking into a room and thinking about what it would look like if it were painted a different color. Now ask me if I like having these thoughts. No I don't. But how would locking me up where I am left to sit around all day and do nothing but think would help? "It would keep you safe." I am as "safe" now as i would be in there. I know of at least 1 way possibly more, depending on how the facility is set up, to kill myself in there. That's just how my mind works.
I just want someone who would work with me and help me. Unfortunately that person doesn't exist, at least not around here.

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by Twitch99

Sometimes i am asked "well what would you want therapists to do [If not try and force you into a hospital]?"
As of late I have been seeing images/thinking of how it would look if I killed myself in a particular way. Now I know if I told this to a therapist they would freak out and have me committed, but listen to exactly what I am saying rather than assuming and putting words in my mouth. I did not say I was going to kill myself. I only said I had been seeing in my head what it would look like. No I'm not having hallucinations. It's no different than walking into a room and thinking about what it would look like if it were painted a different color. Now ask me if I like having these thoughts. No I don't. But how would locking me up where I am left to sit around all day and do nothing but think would help? "It would keep you safe." I am as "safe" now as i would be in there. I know of at least 1 way possibly more, depending on how the facility is set up, to kill myself in there. That's just how my mind works.
I just want someone who would work with me and help me. Unfortunately that person doesn't exist, at least not around here.

@Twitch99

((((safe hugs))))

I'm so sorry you struggle with that. I think I read and commented on one of your threads before (I rejoined PC under a new name - Lilly2 now). I used to struggle with similar issues. I was once handcuffed by police and involuntarily placed on a 3-day hold because of a misunderstanding. It wasn't an arrest, but a transport to a psychiatric facility, since that particular jurisdiction didn't call out the ambulance or other types of transports.

Many people struggle with suicidal ideation. And there are different forms of suicidal ideation. Some are from alternate personalities (DID - dissociative identity disorder), some stem from major depressive disorder (MDD), and others stem from other conditions such as bipolar (Type 1 or Type 2) or borderline personality disorder (BPD). Within each type of disorder, there are degrees between thoughts of suicide, or suicidal ideation. I think what professionals don't get is that some people constantly have those thoughts, and are often discharged from 3-day holds with those same thoughts still intact. The problem arises when outpatient treatments don't offer the kind of care needed to deal with CHRONIC suicidal ideation among certain populations, especially those who are tagged as "treatment resistant." Oftentimes, the laws for mandatory reporting outweigh the benefits of outpatient treatment, which sucks for some people like yourself.

I hear what you're saying regarding therapists not listening to what you're saying. Perhaps if you state something beforehand like, "I have always dealt with the following thoughts throughout my life, so it is not something new, nor is it something that I will act on. Instead, they are thoughts. Here are those thoughts...." --Or something to that effect. Perhaps that might make it more clear to therapists, but it might not, due to different mandatory reporting laws in different jurisdictions and/or institutions.

I think you had told me once that you never were offered coping skills treatments, such as CBT or DBT for suicidal ideation. That's sad, because those two treatments are very helpful for the symptoms that you describe. Medication might also be helpful, but then again, it might not. It depends on your diagnosis and whether or not you're considered "treatment resistant." Additionally, there are other alternatives to treating your symptoms, but I don't know what they are called off the top of my head. I'm surprised that none of your prior mental health providers took the time to truly listen to you, take a full psychosocial history, assess you, and properly diagnose you. Maybe there's something going on that you wouldn't know to share without them first asking you about other symptoms or other experiences. Maybe "treatment resistant" is largely due to missed symptoms and/or experiences, such as accidents, head injuries, trauma, medical procedures, physiological disorders, etc.

I hope you are able to find the treatment you need. (((safe hugs)))

[Fuzzybear]

((((((((( hugs )))))))))

[Twitch99]

@Lilly2 I tried telling my last psychiatrist that I have suffered from suicidal thoughts over the last 30 or so years. He couldn't help me and referred me to an IOP facility where I told them the same thing after 1 week & 1 day they called the cops on me.

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by Twitch99

@Lilly2 I tried telling my last psychiatrist that I have suffered from suicidal thoughts over the last 30 or so years. He couldn't help me and referred me to an IOP facility where I told them the same thing after 1 week & 1 day they called the cops on me.

@Twitch99

Are you a veteran?

Here are some additional things you can ask yourself to see if your sui thoughts are connected and more complex. Maybe you need a specialist in a certain area, such as neuroscience or neuropsychology.

Here are the questions:

What age did you begin having these thoughts?

What was going on around the time you first started having these thoughts?

Did your thoughts worsen over time?

Did you experience any accidents involving head injuries, including even minor head bumps with no concussions?

Were you on a sports team?

Are you a veteran?

Did you experience childhood abuse or neglect?

Were you ever involved in any physical fights in your lifetime?

Did you use drugs, alcohol, or any prescription meds before or during the time you started having these thoughts?

Did you ever use any illicit drugs in your lifetime?

Did you abuse alcohol in your lifetime?

Did you abuse over-the-counter medications in your lifetime?

Did you abuse prescription drugs in your lifetime?

What traumatic experiences have you had in your entire lifetime?

Did someone close to you pass away when you were a child or teenager?

What losses have you experienced in your entire lifetime?

Do you often have headaches? If so, when did they first begin? Do your headaches come before, during, or after your thoughts?

What kind of education have you had?

What jobs have you had?

How is your current relationship with your wife, children, family, and friends?

Do you often think about the past?

Do you experience nightmares?

Have you lost time or memories?

Do you have morbid and intrusive thoughts?

Do you experience flashbacks?

Do you feel unreal in the world, or does the world feel inreal to you?

Do you ruminate over past mistakes?

Do you ruminate over past conversations, relationships, and/or traumatic memories?

Do you experience a flooding of memories?

Do you experience a flooding of mixed emotions, like you are "going crazy"?

Have you ever felt happy in your lifetime? If so, when and in what context?

Have you ever had hopes or dreams or aspirations as a child, teen, or adult? If so, what were those dreams/aspirations?

What are you hopeful of today?

What are you grateful for today?

Describe what an average day and week look like.

What is your typical diet? What foods and beverages do you typically consume?

Do you have any medical conditions?

Have you ever been rich, or was your family rich?

Have you ever been poor, or was your family poor?

Did you ever experience homelessness? When? Why?

Did you ever experience discrimination, harassment, or bullying in the workplace or at school?

Were you hospitalized or seeking medical or mental health treatment as a child or teen?

Did you grow up in a traditional family, a single-parent household, or in foster care?

Did you have any major surgeries done in your lifetime?

Did you ever fall or get into a car accident?

Were you ever in a gang?

Were you ever beaten up?

Were you ever sexually assaulted?

Were you ever a victim of a crime?

Did you ever get convicted of a crime?

Do you have low self-esteem?

Do you feel inferior?

Have you ever been a leader?

What are your strengths?

What are your weaknesses?

Do you fear authority figures?

Do you dislike authority figures?

Do you have any specific phobias?

Were you ever abused in a hospital, by a therapist, by clergy, by a teacher, or by any other authority figure?

Does your wife or any of your children physically abuse you?

Has anyone close to you or your family experienced trauma or mental illness?

Do you feel burnt out?

Do you have feelings of shame? Why?

Do you have feelings of guilt? Why?

Do you practice or believe in a certain religion? If so, which one?

Do you have friends?

Do you feel lonely?

What other issues can you think of that might relate to your feelings and thoughts surrounding sui?

You do not have to answer these questions here, unless you want to.

Hope these questions help in some way.

[Twitch99]

Originally Posted by Lilly2

[]

Are you a veteran?

Here are some additional things you can ask yourself to see if your sui thoughts are connected and more complex. Maybe you need a specialist in a certain area, such as neuroscience or neuropsychology.

Here are the questions:

Wow that's a long list. Lol let's give it a try.

No I'm not a Vet

What age did you begin having these thoughts? 8 or 9 I guess no older than 10

What was going on around the time you first started having these thoughts? I don't really know. I was at camp where I was supposed to be happy & I remember thinking "I wonder what would happen if they came out one morning saw me.....(dead)

Did your thoughts worsen over time? Yeah I guess. 30 years later they are much worse now

Did you experience any accidents involving head injuries, including even minor head bumps with no concussions? Yeah. Cracked my forehead open as a child. Had to get stiches.

Were you on a sports team? This made me laugh. No. I have Zero athletic talent.

Are you a veteran? No

Did you experience childhood abuse or neglect? My older brother (by 19 months) was both mentally & phyisically abusive to me growing up. But that's typical. Older brothers always beat up their younger siblings.

Were you ever involved in any physical fights in your lifetime? No nothing real bad

Did you use drugs, alcohol, or any prescription meds before or during the time you started having these thoughts?
No

Did you ever use any illicit drugs in your lifetime?
No

Did you abuse alcohol in your lifetime?
No

Did you abuse over-the-counter medications in your lifetime?
No

Did you abuse prescription drugs in your lifetime?
No

What traumatic experiences have you had in your entire lifetime?
My 1st time going to an inpatient facility.

Did someone close to you pass away when you were a child or teenager?
No

What losses have you experienced in your entire lifetime?
1 grandfather 2012 & my mother in law back in January
Do you often have headaches? If so, when did they first begin? Do your headaches come before, during, or after your thoughts? I wouldn't say often. I deal with migraines triggered by stress and hunger. They 1st started around 16 I guess.

What kind of education have you had?
Completed H.S. and have some technical training

What jobs have you had?
I've been at my current job for 20 years loading trailers and now as a courier

How is your current relationship with your wife, children, family, and friends?
That's difficult. My wife recently found out about some infidelity, but we're trying to work through it. She is pushing me to find help in order to save our marriage. I have no kids. I have a good relationship with my parents & I don't want to be in the same building as my brother.

Do you often think about the past?
yes

Do you experience nightmares?
No

Have you lost time or memories?
I don't remember. lol yes I have. I had a nervous breakdown and there are still chunks if time I don't remember.

Do you have morbid and intrusive thoughts?
Yes

Do you experience flashbacks?
No

Do you feel unreal in the world, or does the world feel inreal to you?
No

Do you ruminate over past mistakes?
Yes

Do you ruminate over past conversations, relationships, and/or traumatic memories?
No

Do you experience a flooding of memories?
No

Do you experience a flooding of mixed emotions, like you are "going crazy"?
No

Have you ever felt happy in your lifetime? If so, when and in what context?
Happy? No. Not sad? Yes

Have you ever had hopes or dreams or aspirations as a child, teen, or adult? If so, what were those dreams/aspirations?
No

What are you hopeful of today?
That I'll die at work so my wife can get the accidental death life insurance. Yes I know it's a very small chance but that's what I'm hopeful for everyday.

What are you grateful for today?
I don't really know

That's all I feel like answering now.

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by Twitch99

Wow that's a long list. Lol let's give it a try.

***Thank you for being brave and courageous enough to share your answers. I'll respond to the ones you answered in the affirmative. Also, the next time you speak with a therapist, you should have a list of all the answers to the questions that you answerd in the affirmative because that is the best way for a therapist to help you figure out the source of your sui thoughts, and the treatments that would be right for you***

What age did you begin having these thoughts? 8 or 9 I guess no older than 10

***Wow, that is such a young age! I'm so sorry that you were dealing with this for so long. (((safe hugs))) ***

What was going on around the time you first started having these thoughts? I don't really know. I was at camp where I was supposed to be happy & I remember thinking "I wonder what would happen if they came out one morning saw me.....(dead)

***It sounds like the camp wasn't a pleasant experience, even though everyone around you had the opposite emotion. If you work with a really good therapist, the therapist would probably ask you more questions about this camping event, and what happened before the camping event, like at home or in school.***

Did your thoughts worsen over time? Yeah I guess. 30 years later they are much worse now

***I'm so sorry your condition worsened. This is probably due to a number of factors, including untreated depression, increased stress over the years, etc.***

Did you experience any accidents involving head injuries, including even minor head bumps with no concussions? Yeah. Cracked my forehead open as a child. Had to get stiches.

***Did this accident happen before your camping event, when you first had those thoughts? Did this accident happen after the camping event? Answers to these questions might be helpful for your therapist, primary care physician, a second opinion from a neurologist, etc. I'm so sorry that you went through that as a child, especially when the brain is still forming. Your frontal lobes are important for regulating impulses and making decisions, among other things (I think). If you had any frontal lobe damage, especially that went undetected, it could affect your mood, affect, personality, decision-making, executive functioning, and other factors that are related to depression, sui ideation, intrusive thoughts, rumination, etc. You should discuss this with your primary care doctor and see if you can get a referral to a neurologist or someone who can do a brain scan.***

Were you on a sports team? This made me laugh. No. I have Zero athletic talent.

***Even though you answered "no" to this question, the immediate reaction you had coupled with the thoughts you had might be helpful for your new therapist to know. Sometimes male role stereotypes get in the way of our esteem and how we see ourselves; those roles should NOT get in the way, but stigmas and bullying and pressure to conform all affect those who don't fit into stereotypical roles. You can ask yourself if you felt negatively about this, or if, like you say, you laugh because you "have no athletic talent." Not everyone has athletic talent, and that's totally okay - for anyone! It's a matter of how you felt about it growing up. If you had a strong sense of self and what you wanted, and if those stereotypes didn't bother you, then more power to ya! That's a strength that can be identified. However, if you felt negatively about it, then that could also be a source of depression added on to the other potential sources of depression.***

Did you experience childhood abuse or neglect? My older brother (by 19 months) was both mentally & phyisically abusive to me growing up. But that's typical. Older brothers always beat up their younger siblings.

What you experienced was sibling abuse, a form of child maltreatment from your older brother (even if he was a little over a year older than you). You "minimized" your own pain in dealing with that form of childhood trauma, even if you didn't see it as traumatic. Sibling abuse is not always "typical," and gender role stereotypes for boys sends a limiting message that can affect how you feel about yourself and others. This would be an important topic to discuss with your therapist. This would probably count as the second traumatic experience in childhood, with the first being the head injury (accident and medical trauma).***

What traumatic experiences have you had in your entire lifetime?
My 1st time going to an inpatient facility.

Although this is the first time you experienced trauma, this would count as the third traumatic experience in your lifetime, with the head injury and sibling abuse being the first two. Experiencing trauma does not always mean that you perceive it as traumatic. Nevertheless, there are still effects to traumas when you experience more than one in your lifetime. Such cumulative traumatic effects can take a toll with every new trauma that occurs later, including traumatic grief/loss. I'm sorry that you experienced trauma during your IP time. (((safe hugs))) ***

What losses have you experienced in your entire lifetime?
1 grandfather 2012 & my mother in law back in January

***I'm sorry for your losses. (((safe hugs))) Those losses count as additional traumas, so it comes as no surprise that your sui ideation and depression would worsen over the years. These are important things to bring up with your therapist.***

Do you often have headaches? If so, when did they first begin? Do your headaches come before, during, or after your thoughts? I wouldn't say often. I deal with migraines triggered by stress and hunger. They 1st started around 16 I guess.

***The answers to this question would be important to discuss with both your primary care physician and your therapist. Migraines of any kind, even when stressed or hungry, might be an indicator of something else, including possibly symptoms to your earlier head trauma, since these particular symptoms began around 16 years of age for you.***

What kind of education have you had?
Completed H.S. and have some technical training

What jobs have you had?
I've been at my current job for 20 years loading trailers and now as a courier

***From your answers here, it sounds like you are consistent, educated, skilled, and functional in society. This should have been noted as a strength of yours, since you've been relatively stable with your goals an job. This is also important to mention with your therapist, because, taken together, your therapist should understand that you're not at a high risk for attempting sui, but that you are trying to find help with alleviating those symptoms, if not ameliorating them.***

How is your current relationship with your wife, children, family, and friends?
That's difficult. My wife recently found out about some infidelity, but we're trying to work through it. She is pushing me to find help in order to save our marriage. I have no kids. I have a good relationship with my parents & I don't want to be in the same building as my brother.

***I'm glad that you and your wife are trying to work through it. I shared in a different thread of yours about a friend I had with a similar issue. This is important to share with your therapist because current stressors can also affect your mood, self-esteem, depression, and sui ideation, etc.***

Do you often think about the past?
yes

***This is an important factor to tell your therapist. If you are ruminating about the past, experiencing intrusive thoughts about the past, or having recurrent memories about the past, such could all be linked to your mood, depression, and sui ideation.***

Have you lost time or memories?
I don't remember. lol yes I have. I had a nervous breakdown and there are still chunks if time I don't remember.

***LOL, cute! It's great to see a little bit of your sense of humor. But seriously, a nervous breakdown followed by loss of time or memory could be symptoms of a mental disorder, or could be related to high stress and/or trauma that you experienced prior to a nervous breakdown. This is important to share with both your physician and your therapist. Your therapist might ask you more questions regarding what happened right before you had the nervous breakdown, and right after. Clues to that, coupled with the age and timeline of that, might be linked with a mental disorder and/or your sui ideation. I'm so sorry you had a nervous breakdown. I experienced a nervous breakdown and dissociative fugues/DID (undiagnosed at the time) when I was homeless and lost everything. Your situation may be different, based on your symptoms, but stress or trauma can cause lapses in memory or lost time. It is best to ask a therapist about that, and to explore what was going on during and prior to that time. (((safe hugs))) ***

Do you have morbid and intrusive thoughts?
Yes

***This is important to mention to your therapist. Your therapist might ask if you have these thoughts before, during, or after your sui ideation.***

Do you ruminate over past mistakes?
Yes

***This is important to mention with your therapist. Your rumination over past mistakes coupled with your thinking about the past indicates that you may have trouble embracing the present and the future. These thoughts can become habits that weigh you down emotionally, and they can be connected with your sui ideation and/or depression. Your therapist might ask you if you have these thoughts sometimes or all the time, and if they occur before your sui ideation.***

Have you ever felt happy in your lifetime? If so, when and in what context?
Happy? No. Not sad? Yes

Have you ever had hopes or dreams or aspirations as a child, teen, or adult? If so, what were those dreams/aspirations?
No

What are you hopeful of today?
That I'll die at work so my wife can get the accidental death life insurance. Yes I know it's a very small chance but that's what I'm hopeful for everyday.

What are you grateful for today?
I don't really know

That's all I feel like answering now.

***These final answers to the questions indicate that you've had a relatively low mood and poor outlook on life for quite some time, maybe all your life, including childhood. I'm so sorry that you struggle with these things and revert back to negative thinking patterns about you. (((safe hugs))) I'm sure your wife, friends, family, and maybe even coworkers would miss you dearly, and that they'd rather have you around than some life insurance policy. I'm sure many on PC would miss you, too. I would, even though I don't know you. It's sad that you think so low of yourself, and that you've minimized your own pain, wants, needs, and dreams over the years. These are all important things to discuss with a trustworthy therapist who will understand your need for OP only. It may take a while to fully face the good in your life, the good that might be too painful for you to see, but it's possible that you can heal from these things. I'm sure your family, friends, and wife want the best for you, and that "best" includes your being alive and learning how to be happy, even if you don't feel happy initially. There are treatments and solutions you can try, even though they are scary and triggering from past traumatic experiences while IP. I'm sorry you went through so much trauma and stress in your life. You have a lot more going for you than you realize! You have a lot of strengths, but no one has pointed them out to you before. I'm so sorry you went through all this. (((safe hugs)))***

Consider discussing these things with a therapist, psychiatrist, and/or primary care physician. Having more information to give your treatment team will help them find better treatments for you, and possibly avoid IP recommendations, since that is a traumatic experience for you.

I hope some of my comments helped. (((safe hugs)))