[lenjan]

I live in southeastern Wisconsin. We didn't have summer till September this year, and we're not really having fall, either. I've had to turn my heat on already! The trees turned colors and lost all their leaves in a space of about 3 days.

I loathe, detest and despise fall and winter. (I live in Wisconsin because I'm too lazy to move, LOL!) Supposedly you can't be diagnosed with seasonal affective disorder unless you've had symptoms for 8 years, and I'm going on 6. I hate the short days -- around here in the winter, it gets dark at 4:30 pm -- and the gray and the clouds and the cold and the snow. I start tanking in October and don't perk up till May or so (although it's been known to snow in May here!).

I am way too broke to afford a lightbox, so I'm wondering how anybody else handles depression at this time of year. I have a lot going on right now that would make ANYBODY depressed, but lemme tell ya, when I wake up and it's dark, and then overcast, I don't want to get out of bed. Any suggestions?

Candy

[wisewoman]

hey candy, you know what I have always wondered? If those full spectrum lizard lights work on reptiles, why not us? It's a special lightbulb that cost about 7 dollars each but I was planning on putting them all over as my youngest seems to do more well in bright then dark. One year in FL she hugged the grass and thanked the sun! guess the darkness affects her to? Just an idea I have had popping around.

[lenjan]

I'll try anything! Where can you get those light bulbs?

My pdoc has a lightbox he loans out, but somebody always beats me to it.

[wisewoman]

Try pet stores and lighting stores. Candy my dear, I do not know if it works, I just am wondering. Also the florecent tubes that are full spectrum, couldn't you make your own box/ I have some old florecent lighting, maybe I should research huh?

[lenjan]

I see my pdoc Thursday morning, I'll ask him for suggestions. Only problem is, if I'm honest about how I'm feeling, he'll want to up my meds again and I just can't deal with it. You should see the fistful of pills I already take. I don't know why more always has to equal better. I'm depressed about other stuff, it's not just entirely the seasonal stuff, but I'm willing to try anything to get rid of it no matter what's causing it!

[shakes]

Those lightbulbs might work. I have one for my frog and I have never tried it any other way. They are warm and very bright though so it might be worth a shot.
I understand how you feel. As soon as fall starts to hit I just get floored. Very depressed and sleepy...very weepy. I tend to just cry for hours for no reason and go into panic/anxiety attacks.
I have yet to find a solution to my problem. Meditation does not even help lately. I am going to try to start taking a multi vitamin..maybe it will help even me out.
I wish the best for you. Maybe we can come up with a thought together.

Jessica

[Wants2Fly]

Hi -- I'm not sure what "light bulbs" y'all are talking about. Around 1991-1993, bought some "full-spectrum" light bulbs that one could put in ordinary lamps. They were out of some "wholistic" health type catalog. They did have whiter light compared with the more yellow light of regular bulbs. I think they cost @ 3/$25. The difference was so negligible, I never bought them again. Of course, now there are many different products on the market, even at home depot, and mfrs with different kinds of pink (I love the pink glow, but not good for reading) and other colors. So I don't know if those expensive bulbs I bought are that expensive or even what you mean are used for reptiles.

[shakes]

They sell specific lightbulbs for reptiles in pet stores. They are special UV bulbs that produce heat for the cage as well as to infuse vitamins into the reptile to keep it healthy and to "Maintain normal eating habits" (just read that off the box )
I believe that is what we were talking about...I think

Jessica

[misty]

Hey! I've thaught of buying the tanning bed lights for the fixtures we have florecent bulbs don't know if they would fit in the fixtures but I would sure do it. I went to a tanning bed getting past being closed in and was amazed at the differance. The light bulbs aren't all that expensive but don't know how to find out if they would fit our fixtures. By looking at them I would bet they do but don't want to go blowing fuzes. The other thing I look at is sulstices wich is more of a biological thing. Oops never mind.

[(JD)]

I never heard of having to go 8 years before considering the dx! find a different doctor that will care for you... if you can

[mj14]

candybear, my pdoc told me that insurance will often cover a good part of the expense of a lightbox. You may want to call your insurance company and ask about it. I have never heard of the 8 year rule for being dx'ed with SAD. I know that I've had two different pdocs tell me that I have SAD without ever asking me how long I've suffered with it.

Anyway, if you still can't swing a light box, my pdoc recommended for me to get out in the sun at lunchtime every day, to make sure I got some sun exposure when it's at its highest. So maybe take a little walk in the middle of the day.

I have used some of the full spectrum light bulbs, and they have not really done anything to help with the SAD. I think the difference is, a light box is 10,000 lumens...you need that really bright light to really affect the SAD.

Good luck...I hope you can find some way to get a light box...it's done wonders for me.

mj

[lenjan]

I heard about the 8-year rule from somebody dx'd with SAD -- not from my pdoc, whom I love and who has never steered me wrong. I'll look into it.

And I didn't know insurance would cover, or mostly cover, a lightbox! That I am DEFINITELY going to have to look into. My insurance has been remarkably decent about paying for my psych stuff.

The only trouble I can foresee is that my pdoc said you have to sit in front of the stupid thing for 45 minutes every morning -- I live a 90-second drive from work, so I get up at 7:45 and am there at 8, LOL. If I actually have to get up in enough time to spend 45 minutes in front of a lightbox, I'm going to be cranky, SAD or no SAD! :-)

[(JD)]

oh yeah that was my point too... get the dx so the insurance or something will cover it..

if you get the lightbox it will help you feel better and sleep better so you won't be too cranky to use it :}

[mj14]

candybear, I can't ever manage to use mine in the morning, so I just do it when I get home from work. As long as I don't do it right before bed, I'm ok.

I know that wouldn't work for a lot of people, so I'm not saying it would definitely work for you...but it might help even if you can't use it in the morning.

mj

[tuneyluna]

I used to use the kind of flourescent bulbs that are full spectrum (or that mimic natural light) in light boxes for viewing 35mm slides. If you want to buy the bulbs thay are 5000K (K is for Kelvin) to 5400K. They fit into flourescent fixtures and come in several lengths. Check camera stores for them. Online I'd check B&H Camera, Samy's, Ritz Cameras, Freestyle (sorry I can't find my bookmarks for the URLs). They generally have some of the best prices. I don't know if the lumens are high enough with these bulbs, but they are professional bulbs and I thought the information might be worth throwing out there.

[Larry_Hoover]

It's not the color temperature that determines the efficacy of phototherapy for seasonal depression, but the light intensity, measured in lumens.

There are special high-intensity fluorescent bulbs that meet the requirements, but they do not fit standard fluorescent bulbholders. Not only that, these bulbs emit a fairly significant dose of UV light, and appropriate filters are a necessity. The poster who suggested using tanning bed lights is considering a very dangerous thing indeed. Tanning bed lights work because of the UV output. They are not suitable for phototherapy.

I happen to think that the best product on the market is by Northern Light Technologies, but there are other good products out there. Some general questions are answered in their FAQ. http://www.northernlighttechnologies.com/faq.php

They happen to use a 3000K color temperature, but other bulbs are available that fit the fixture's bulbholders, if a different spectral character is chosen.

Lar

[Butterfly_Faerie]

Candy

I suffer from seasonal affective disorder in the winter months, it hit me hard this year and early for that matter.

Therapy helps, getting a light box to do light therapy will help along with meds... I know how hard it is to deal with this. I have been suffering from SADs for over 8 yrs... I'll post some info for you....

[Wants2Fly]

My solution for SAD, in 1983 -- move to Florida. There is a special quality of light in Florida. The blue is vivid blue, sometimes cloudless, like a perfect piece of opaque gladd. Even the storm-clouded skies are interesting, deep purples, a thousand shades of gray, tumultuous and vivid. I often thought that if I could paint, I would do a series of paintings that just tried to capture these textures and colors and qualities, and I would call the exhibit "Pieces of Sky."

Seeing a palm tree moving against this blueness never failed to make me think how lucky I was to live in that subtropical paradise.

New Orleans gets gray and there is a touch of chill in the air, especially at night. The light is what I miss most about Florida, and I think of moving back for the winter, which is wonderful there.

[Butterfly_Faerie]

Getting a light box is your best bet, because they are used for SAD.. getting an other light really may not be enough, light box is definatly the way to go but can be pricey, but well worth the money.

Usually the lux for those lights is 10,000 that's standard.

[(JD)]

Yes a lightbox is top notch... but even 10 minutes outside, even on overcast days, will help...

I recall being in South Carolina Sep Oct Nov... didn't see the sun the whole time! It was depressing in itself.

[shakes]

I agree with the going outside for the sun whenever possible. At work the girls and I make it a point to try to sit outside a few times a day just so that we can clear our heads and settle a little bit. It seems hard to do lately with the loss of sun and all.
We should try to kidnap the sun.

Jessica

[Butterfly_Faerie]

<font color="#666666">Definatly I agree with shakes and sky? I think it was her that said it. Even if you do not own a lightbox or cannot afford it right now whenever it is sunny get outside for a bit, even if it is only 10mins a day, it well help if it is SAD you are suffering from. Also if you can't get outside for whatever reason sit in front of a window where the sun is coming in that also helps.

Stuff like this is in my post tips for depression, I did post it on here right? </font>

[adieuolivaw]

Just a thought --- are you all getting enough Vitamin D? And are there other vitamins or minerals that must be present at the same time for the Vitamin D to be properly absorbed?

Anybody know about this?

Adieu

[lenjan]

I take a multivitamin daily, but the best source of vitamin D is the sun -- which has been seen ONCE in southeast Wisconsin in the last 2.something weeks. It doesn't happen much between October and May. Worst in December, usually we only have 8 or 9 days of sunlight out of that whole month. So it's really bad here. If anybody knows any other good sources of vitamin D, I'd be happy to hear them!

Candy

[shakes]

Candybear,
I did some research for you hun. Here is a list of what I found that has Vitamin D in it.

Cod Liver Oil, 1 Tbs: 1,360 IU
Salmon, cooked, 3 1/2 oz: 360 IU
Mackerel, cooked, 3 1/2 oz: 345 IU
Sardines, canned in oil, drained, 3 1/2 oz: 270 IU
Milk, nonfat, reduced fat, and whole, vitamin D fortified, 1 c: 98 IU
Margarine, fortified, 1 Tbs: 60 IU
Pudding, 1/2 c prepared from mix and made with vitamin D fortified milk: 50 IU
Dry cereal, Vitamin D fortified w/10% of the recommended daily value, 3/4 c: 40-50 IU (other cereals may be fortified with more or less vitamin D)
Liver, beef, cooked, 3 1/2 oz: 30 IU
Egg, 1 whole (vitamin D is present in the yolk): 25 IU

Here is the site that I pulled it off of if you are interested in reading more about vitamin D.
http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/982088787.html

Jessica