[Abby]

Do most people who dissociate have "fragile ego boundaries"? I read it can mean you don't know what's you and what's the rest of the world? Is that right? That sounds like dissociation to me so is it related?

And how does the relate to psychotocism? Which I think is a propensity to have creative but perhaps slightly odd thoughts and experiences. A personality trait, I think.

Could dissociation and psychoticism be related via fragile ego boundaries? Or are they separate issues altogether?

If you feel that your self could dissolve or be annilated or alternatively you have an intense imagination about merging into another person - is that dissociation? Or psychoticism?

What if you feel that the parts of yourself extend beyond your body and are but aren't you? What if you think your body is simply a temporary and slightly irrelevant container...like a voice piece? You know your body is you but it doesn't mean anything that it is or feel like it. Is that 'normal' for dissociation or is it more psychotic type thoughts?

I've always assumed it was derealization and depersonalisation... are these on the spectrum of psychosis? If it went a step further would it be psychosis? I mean dp/dr make perceptions off so things seem bigger, smaller, they break into smaller parts, things slow down going past you etc. even though you may know they're not really that way...you still experience it as such.

And when does all this just become hypersensitivity?! When is it simply that your brain takes in everything and is overstimulated? And therefore deals with it these ways to cope...and this will always be how you live as your brain is a certain way which can't be changed through therapy. It seems pretty important to know so you can't figure out what to expect in therapy...

[Luce]

I don't know.
Part of me wants to just say "They are what they are." The are all elements of human experience and perception.
Labels are actually quite separate to our experiences. Labels are just words we created in order to communicate the meaning of our experiences with each other. The words we have now are the best words we have to date. But remember, up until about 30 years ago, most people to whom we now apply the words "dissociative identity disorder" were given the word "schizophrenia" instead. The words didn't change anyone's personal experiences, but they changed the way other people interpreted their experiences. What we know now is that there is quite a lot of overlap between schizophrenia symptoms and symptoms of dissociative disorders. So the differentiation between aspects of experience is not clear.

So to me it makes more sense if I look at it from experience to label, rather than label to experience, because I think experience is fluid whereas labels are quite restricting. What I mean is, rather than trying to sort discrete aspects of experience into neatly labeled boxes (this bit is psychotic, this is dissociative, this is hypersensitivity) I would sort them into approximate areas where there is overlap between each space and the ability to slide those pieces from one area to another.
I think it is perfectly okay to say "This bit is *like* dissociation and *like* psychotic thinking and also *like* hypersensitivity... because who in their right mind would be so arrogant as to say "This is x and x only" about any one aspect of someone else's perception or experience? Psychiatry used to do that, and look how wrong they have been at times.
There are so very many gray areas in psychology. Experience is what it is. Labels change according to what the greatest minds in the field agree upon at the time. What they believe at one point may well change into something quite different further on down the track. But, the individual's perception and experience of self remains the same.
To me, saying this part of my experience is *like* _____ and/or _____ is good enough.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Abby

Do most people who dissociate have "fragile ego boundaries"? I read it can mean you don't know what's you and what's the rest of the world? Is that right? That sounds like dissociation to me so is it related?

And how does the relate to psychotocism? Which I think is a propensity to have creative but perhaps slightly odd thoughts and experiences. A personality trait, I think.

Could dissociation and psychoticism be related via fragile ego boundaries? Or are they separate issues altogether?

If you feel that your self could dissolve or be annilated or alternatively you have an intense imagination about merging into another person - is that dissociation? Or psychoticism?

What if you feel that the parts of yourself extend beyond your body and are but aren't you? What if you think your body is simply a temporary and slightly irrelevant container...like a voice piece? You know your body is you but it doesn't mean anything that it is or feel like it. Is that 'normal' for dissociation or is it more psychotic type thoughts?

I've always assumed it was derealization and depersonalisation... are these on the spectrum of psychosis? If it went a step further would it be psychosis? I mean dp/dr make perceptions off so things seem bigger, smaller, they break into smaller parts, things slow down going past you etc. even though you may know they're not really that way...you still experience it as such.

And when does all this just become hypersensitivity?! When is it simply that your brain takes in everything and is overstimulated? And therefore deals with it these ways to cope...and this will always be how you live as your brain is a certain way which can't be changed through therapy. It seems pretty important to know so you can't figure out what to expect in therapy...

here in my location we have guidelines for what is dissociation and what is psychosis...

example psychosis is being out of touch with reality, having hallucinations delusions. delusional thoughts.

where as dissociation is a normal reaction to a trigger (feeling numb, feeling spaced out, feeling disconnected because of something either positive or negative, with dissociation reality remains intact.. my that I mean a person may feel their dissociation symptoms of numbness, spaciness, disconnected but they know the reality is that they really physically are not those things.)

psychosis ... believing my hand is not my own, believing my hand is not attached to my body.

dissociation........feeling like my hand is not my own but knowing that hand is mine, its attached to my physical body. if it was in reality actually severed from my arm I would need stitches or amputation by a medical doctor.

psychosis...I believe I am the famous singer mylie cyrus
dissociation... I feel like I am the singer mylie cyrus but I know in reality I am not.

here in my location having fragile ego boundaries means any person whether they are normal or have any mental or physical health problems can have problems with knowing right from wrong, knowing whats real and what isnt (out ot touch with reality, sometimes psychotic,) inability of controlling their aggression, be very defensive, strike out at people before they strike out at me mentality, has trouble with making poor judgments.

an example of a person with normal ego boundaries in my location would be a person who know whats right and wrong, make good decisions and able to control their temper. and reality testing remaining intact.

in other words here in my location a person who has fragile ego boundaries would not be diagnosed with dissociation problems due to the reality remains intact diagnostic criteria for dissociative disorders.

that said a person can be dual diagnosed... (diagnosed with more than one problem but the diagnosing treatment provider would have to specify which symptoms belong to which mental disorder)

example a person with DID can also be diagnosed with bipolar disorder with psychotic features. meaning I had DID and bipolar disorder and my bipolar disorder came with psychosis problems. the times when I had problems with knowing what was real or not was related to my bipolar with psychotic features symptoms not my DID / dissociation problems.

I wish I was psychotic...a pill and a gov't check...broke surviving...

[Abby]

I agree Luce, thanks. I guess I'm slightly confused as a psychiatrist has said what I described to him shows that at times i can be on the verge of psychosis whereas therapists have said its more dissociation or just a natural part of human experience (I prefer the latter!). The experiences I have explained were the same to each person but perhaps the manner in which they were interpreted it was influence by their respective disciplinary backgrounds... or maybe the therapist actively seeing me dissociate enabled her to call it that whereas if she'd have listen to it they may not have thought anything of it or called it something else.

I do prefer experiences over labels too...but I'm concerned that I may be genetically hypersensitive not just hypervigilent or prone to that simply due to additional external stuff that's happened in my life. Or actually maybe the additional stuff changed my brain...come to think about it that's what the psychiatrist said (I think) so can it change back? If I'm now wired to react to very small stimuli that others don't, can I overcome this? They said it's like temporal lobe epilepsy...but not epilepsy! I wish they'd explain it straightforwardly! I guess I'm trying to set my expectations for therapy...life.

Thanks Amanda, that was very helpful. But this is some of my confusion..."feeling my hand is not my own but knowing that it is"...immediately in that remake you have assumed there is an innate strong sense of self. But what if you don't have that? What if you don't know who you are and who is you and who isn't you? I've taught myself this is the body I've been given but I don't feel it is mine, it just is. I don't know it is securely, I think it's as much transient as my moods are and find it interesting it doesn't change with me.

If you don't know who you are then there is space between 'you' and your body so who knows if others can get in. Now that sounds slightly like a delusional thought but I don't think it is...if I can float outside my body is it too much of a leap to assume someone can float in?

Is it factual reality that you're talking about in that I'm fully aware people speak to my face and body and that I have to do the same...but I've no idea if they're anymore there than I am half the time! I try not to think about that too much though as it freaks me out!

I really liked your explanation of fragile ego boundaries, that makes sense to me. I can see that coming from a trauma not knowing right and wrong at times, reacting defensively, impulsiveness etc. I guess stress can cause dissociation or psychosis and how it manifests is pretty much up for grabs?

[Luce]

Abby, it almost sounds as though what you are describing is the essential crux of dissociative disorders... disruptions in one's sense of Self or Identity. What is me? What is not me? What is my experience, and what is not?

For the young child trauma associated with poor attachments associated with lack of support equals dissociative experiences. One's own experience cannot be assimilated into the developing sense of Self. The creation of Self is disrupted at a crucial point in development; one's own experience is denied; disowned.

And then, there is the lifetime experience of trying to get it all back... trying to make oneself as whole and self-owning as one should have always been...

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Abby

Thanks Amanda, that was very helpful. But this is some of my confusion..."feeling my hand is not my own but knowing that it is"...immediately in that remake you have assumed there is an innate strong sense of self. But what if you don't have that? What if you don't know who you are and who is you and who isn't you? I've taught myself this is the body I've been given but I don't feel it is mine, it just is. I don't know it is securely, I think it's as much transient as my moods are and find it interesting it doesn't change with me.

If you don't know who you are then there is space between 'you' and your body so who knows if others can get in. Now that sounds slightly like a delusional thought but I don't think it is...if I can float outside my body is it too much of a leap to assume someone can float in?

Is it factual reality that you're talking about in that I'm fully aware people speak to my face and body and that I have to do the same...but I've no idea if they're anymore there than I am half the time! I try not to think about that too much though as it freaks me out!

I really liked your explanation of fragile ego boundaries, that makes sense to me. I can see that coming from a trauma not knowing right and wrong at times, reacting defensively, impulsiveness etc. I guess stress can cause dissociation or psychosis and how it manifests is pretty much up for grabs?

yea sometimes it did get confusing for me too. in ....me.... the floating / sinking outside ones body mentally was called dissociation because it was a ....feeling response to a trigger... by that I mean something stressful or upsetting would happen and then I would get this feeling of sinking \ separating from my body. when it happened but was not related to a trigger my treatment providers called it psychosis or a medication side effect.

my treatment provider explained an easy way of knowing what was me and what was someone else in the body... part of having DID (what my diagnosis was) is that each alter has their own sense of agency (who they are, what their jobs, purposes, reasons for being, controls, triggers and much more) this results in the automatic perceiving of alternate personalities as thats them, and this is me.

example if I was looking at my hand and could not decide if it belonged to me or someone else. it was mine, if for example I looked at my hand and thought boy rainy's hand looks small then I knew I was connecting to what in DID is called co consciousness.. being aware of both rainy and me.

but you are right sometimes it is hard trying to self diagnose what ones symptoms are, whether they are dissociation or psychosis. what I rely on is my treatment providers when I cant tell the difference...

your treatment providers will be able to tell you which you are going through based on other accompanying symptoms and problems in your life, like what your diagnosed mental and physical health issues, life style, medications, and other things too like medical and mental health test results.

my suggestion is if you cant tell what is you and what is the body and what is your internal system naturally or dissociative or psychosis related to contact your treatment providers. they will be able to help you figure that out.

[Abby]

Originally Posted by Luce

Abby, it almost sounds as though what you are describing is the essential crux of dissociative disorders... disruptions in one's sense of Self or Identity. What is me? What is not me? What is my experience, and what is not?

For the young child trauma associated with poor attachments associated with lack of support equals dissociative experiences. One's own experience cannot be assimilated into the developing sense of Self. The creation of Self is disrupted at a crucial point in development; one's own experience is denied; disowned.

And then, there is the lifetime experience of trying to get it all back... trying to make oneself as whole and self-owning as one should have always been...

Really? This is very reassuring! I've always said that I feel empty or fragmented or split. That i look in the mirror and find it fascinating that this is who I am and yet I couldnt imagine what else I'd look like. I just don't know this body is mine but I'm so disconnected from it, it doesn't feel relevant. Often it feels as though it hinders me. People see 'me' but they see competent me, my mask to the world, they dont see the other versions. I have never understood why other people are not ripping at their skin trying to get out of it. I feel trapped at times. I can sit and hurt my body and feel nothing at all...often if I feel anything it's only this part that thinks "how will we cover this up so we look presentable?" I'm always trying to make myself whole, it's been my whole purpose to find someone or something that slots everything into place finally so I can sigh in relief...I've not found it yet. The most most horrid part is that when I feel for an moment conected, the screaming starts again. Mindfulness is the worst skill for me to learn, it makes me feel so uncomfortable and trapped! Thanks for letting me know what I write is the core of dissociation, as much as I've heard the word, therapist use it in regards to my behaviour, i think I just dismiss it as a 'therapy word' and nothing to do with me really. Isn't that strange...

Originally Posted by amandalouise

yea sometimes it did get confusing for me too. in ....me.... the floating / sinking outside ones body mentally was called dissociation because it was a ....feeling response to a trigger... by that I mean something stressful or upsetting would happen and then I would get this feeling of sinking \ separating from my body. when it happened but was not related to a trigger my treatment providers called it psychosis or a medication side effect.

my treatment provider explained an easy way of knowing what was me and what was someone else in the body... part of having DID (what my diagnosis was) is that each alter has their own sense of agency (who they are, what their jobs, purposes, reasons for being, controls, triggers and much more) this results in the automatic perceiving of alternate personalities as thats them, and this is me.

example if I was looking at my hand and could not decide if it belonged to me or someone else. it was mine, if for example I looked at my hand and thought boy rainy's hand looks small then I knew I was connecting to what in DID is called co consciousness.. being aware of both rainy and me.

but you are right sometimes it is hard trying to self diagnose what ones symptoms are, whether they are dissociation or psychosis. what I rely on is my treatment providers when I cant tell the difference...

your treatment providers will be able to tell you which you are going through based on other accompanying symptoms and problems in your life, like what your diagnosed mental and physical health issues, life style, medications, and other things too like medical and mental health test results.

my suggestion is if you cant tell what is you and what is the body and what is your internal system naturally or dissociative or psychosis related to contact your treatment providers. they will be able to help you figure that out.

Thanks Amanda, I've been told it can be an internal trigger or even an automatic one from nowhere due to my brain being sensitised to having a dissociative reaction? So I wonder if my thoughts are more eccentric because of the experiences of dissociation rather than being a separate issue of psychosis-like characteristics? Although I can understand the fragile ego boundaries issue...starting to wonder if that simply reflects a part of me that reacts when I'm distressed, makes sense...

It's interesting as I know I am at the centre but I'm not actually sure there is a me also. Sometimes I wonder if there is a me or a nothingness despite sometimes being able to say that is her not me when I'm emotional and my whole reality shifts. These days I can 'see' it's not real so there is me and the overemotional part. Yet my body doesn't belong to me or any part of me and sometimes I feel I only know who I am from who I am not. But I guess I don't have DID like you so that's why it is different maybe.
I think I will ask my therapist what it all is. I would like to know if people do what I do to cope and also if it's biological sensitivity that can be overcome and how. I guess I shouldn't expect a straight answer though!

[finding_my_way]

some of those things might also fit in the context of borderline personality disorder where it can include a fragile ego, dissociation, boundary issues, etc. it can vary person to person with what symptoms they have and the severity, but it is common with that to be unsure of who you actually are, lack a sense of identity, and have times of being over sensitive to things, like you have a really thin skin and cannot tolerate criticism, for example, or struggle to manage emotions effectively, etc. which can create a whole other set of responses as a result.

so, that also might be a possibility as to what is going on.

a lot of things can overlap too so can get confusing. i have diagnoses of borderline personality disorder (but moving away from it) and DID as well as OCD. within all of that are a bunch of other issues not separated out as diagnoses (or else i'd have at least six lol).

so, i try to focus on what comes up and deal with it when it does, though it all can get confusing not knowing what is what or having it overlap.

[Abby]

Interesting! Thank you. I feel I fit a lot of the BPD criteria except for the issues with relationships part. If I get upset then I will act in wildly erratic ways but I have a number of very solid decade long friendships. My main issue with friendships is actually trying to not let my emotions infiltrate into them and cause havoc. So if I'm upset by therapy then I can't see my friends because I'm exhausted or have a lower frustration level etc and I don't want to act out or bring them down. But then again I can be very anxious that people hate me for no logical reason and always scanning for that. But alot of the other criteria make sense to me. I wonder if complex trauma is the same as BPD or not or what the core differences are...I have a feeling those with complex trauma are generally less erratic and volatile. I'm both of those internally but show very little externally, to the point I get quite sick before someone realises that when I say I'm depressed then I mean clinically so...

How can you figure out what is BPD and dissociation liked to that and what is DID? How do you know you're getting better with the BPD when it's hard to separate from the DID? I'm curious, thank you

[Luce]

You don't have to fit all the criteria for BPD, just a certain number I think (5? Not sure)

Could be wrong on this also but I think with BPD the disturbance to self identity is not as clear cut. With DID my alters and I are very clear on who is who. I am me and they are them, and there is no question about that. (Although with our front group that is merging it is not longer clear cut like that... but it did begin that way.) My experience of DID in me is that I am always me. 'I' am never one of the alts. They each are always themselves, and never someone else. Our identities and sense of self are very clear to us. Our front group has merged somewhat , but even now I am very aware of behaviors or traits that used to belong to another alter and I can clearly identify them within me.

[finding_my_way]

i have diagnoses of both borderline personality disorder and DID. i am apparently moving away from the borderline as a diagnosis, but i have never known what is that and what is the DID as so many things have overlapped for me.

dissociation has always been the most prominent issue i have had. i also have had the loss of sense of identity, but that also was related to the dissociation. even now that i know more of who 'i' am, i still get confused between what is my feelings/thoughts and what are those of an alter because it gets very confusing.

i also don't know if maybe the mix of the alters is what has made up the borderline criteria and that was why i was diagnosed with it in the past. i used to struggle with severe depression, anxiety/panic, and self harm/suicidal ideation sometimes with plans/intent, and variations of dissociation.

i also had boundary issues regarding my mother where we were really enmeshed, and it was i guess a co-dependent type relationship...but it also played into my identity issue to a degree because i was told so much what to think, say, do, feel, etc. and had a hard time thinking for myself and not knowing if i was making the right decision which also then played into my anxiety issues and OCD at times. so, there are a ton of overlapping things...i don't know what fits with what except the dissociation itself since i can at least 'feel' that to know what it is.

it is correct that you only need to fit 5 of the criteria for it to be a diagnosis, and how you experience things could also differ from another person.

i never fit every criteria to a T except maybe mood issues (severe depression). i never had unwarranted anger issues or wanted to get 'back' at people for doing things i perceived as wrong. my anger issues were typical of a teenager's and rightful at times towards people who did actually hurt me either mentally, verbally, or any other way. but i know someone diagnosed with borderline who will get mad at people when they really didn't do anything wrong who will then create a situation just to justify how they feel, and they don't take responsibility for it and constantly blame it on the diagnosis.

i would think it's more common to have diagnoses of both borderline and DID just because they are both developmental, and there is often (but not always) some kind of trauma (not necessarily abuse) that is a factor in borderline personality disorder.

i have tried to read up on both and what is what, but it's all confusing.

[Luce]

I read somewhere recently that nearly half of those diagnosed with DID also meet the criteria for BPD. Which makes total sense. Since they are both dissociative disorders, both related to attachment, and share many of the same characteristics.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Luce

I read somewhere recently that nearly half of those diagnosed with DID also meet the criteria for BPD. Which makes total sense. Since they are both dissociative disorders, both related to attachment, and share many of the same characteristics.

here in the USA BPD is not a dissociative disorder..... but....... dissociation disorders can happen with also having BPD. when this happens its called dual diagnosis or mhaving multiple diagnosis's.

I know its bit confusing and I cant remember if you are in the USA or the UK ....maybe this will help. heres what my location goes by in separating the two disorders and categories....

BPD is listed as a personality disorder. a personality disorder is behavior related... a deeply ingrained and maladaptive pattern of behavior of a specified kind. you can see a list of personality disorders in the first link at the bottom of my post.

DID is listed as a dissociative disorder. a dissociative disorder is more based on feelings and escaping triggers. you can see what america goes by for dissociative disorders in my dissociative disorders link at the bottom of my post.

[Abby]

It is interesting to hear your experiences and difference between BPD and DID. I don't have DID so I'm fully aware all my 'parts' are me. They don't feel like me when I'm in that state, I call them 'them' 'she' 'her' because they aren't me but they clearly are. I may feel i act in a way I maybe wouldn't if I wasn't upset or overwhelmed but take full ownership for how I act and apologise of any behaviour that may upset anyone, I do this most often with my therapist as that's where it happens the most severely. It happens outside of this too but usually I'll withdraw etc. I can describe those parts of me and they're very different but they are still me. I guess that's why the ANP-EPs idea makes sense. But I have a hard time figuring out if I'm me, if this is me or not. I don't feel authentic or whole. The me I talk about feels incomplete so that's why I feel I don't know who I am and sometimes I figure I am all of my parts too and people are complex and contradictory, I can love and hate simultaneously, that's normal. But what I don't get is how separate they feel and whether there should be a 'gap'. Plus I genuinely don't feel I'm my body. Even if I say this is me and that is them and talk about 'she' 'her' etc as if I know who I am, which means I must know to an extent...it is almost as though i know who I am because I know who I am not and yet they are me...so yep. That makes no sense!

I think BPD does have transitory dissociation in times of stress as part of its criteria and lack of sense of identity or self. I can't tell how that would differ from dissociation, I don't feel I change identity based on who I'm with because I'm still always me, but I feel split and as though there is no me also. I don't change to fit in with people but my moods change when I get upset etc. I can't tell what's a pattern of behaviour vs a pattern of feelings. I have similar reactions that repeat over and over in therapy... usually when I feel threatened or anxious. It's strange as I'll either shut down or I'll come out fighting!
I can see how BPD and dissociation have a huge overlap, I think DID feels more definitive so you lose time, you act dramatically different, i can't imagine that you'd have DID and either you not know it based on losing time or random things happening or someone saying you're different etc. A lot of my stuff is internal rather than external - although it does effect my behaviour in depression etc. Sometimes I feel I have so much emotional input my brain overloads and shuts down - that's what happens alot. I have lots of headaches these days.

[finding_my_way]

BPD does have dissociation as a symptom for some, but it doesn't mean there is co-existing DID either or a separate dissociative disorder. it all depends on the person.

the type of dissociation in BPD is where you can forget what you did, but it doesn't mean you have an alter as dissociation can affect your memory in general since it tends to blow circuits in your brain (or so that's how i describe it). in BPD, it is usually triggered (like the other well known forms of dissociation) from stress and overwhelming feelings and the whole dysregulation aspect/not being able to soothe/calm yourself, etc.

i was reading up on that to try to figure out the difference as i have variations of dissociation which was why i was confused what 'might' be related to BPD, DID, or maybe even on its own.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by finding_my_way

BPD does have dissociation as a symptom for some, but it doesn't mean there is co-existing DID either or a separate dissociative disorder. it all depends on the person.

the type of dissociation in BPD is where you can forget what you did, but it doesn't mean you have an alter as dissociation can affect your memory in general since it tends to blow circuits in your brain (or so that's how i describe it). in BPD, it is usually triggered (like the other well known forms of dissociation) from stress and overwhelming feelings and the whole dysregulation aspect/not being able to soothe/calm yourself, etc.

i was reading up on that to try to figure out the difference as i have variations of dissociation which was why i was confused what 'might' be related to BPD, DID, or maybe even on its own.

thanks for letting us know what your location (canada ) goes by. what I posted was for america and what treatment providers here in the USA go by since may 2013 when all our definitions mental disorders and mental disorder categories/ diagnostics changed. yes I have read those kinds of things on the internet too but its a situation where the internet doesnt always take into consideration when locations have updated their diagnostics and definitions.

when researching on the internet I go by not believing everything I find out there. that if its something that is dear to my heart and something I really need to know about in relation to my own mental and physical health problems or something to help others (ie friend, family clients, college research papers....)is to contact my own treatment providers who can give me the accurate and up to date information based on todays standards.

[finding_my_way]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

thanks for letting us know what your location (canada ) goes by. what I posted was for america and what treatment providers here in the USA go by since may 2013 when all our definitions mental disorders and mental disorder categories/ diagnostics changed. yes I have read those kinds of things on the internet too but its a situation where the internet doesnt always take into consideration when locations have updated their diagnostics and definitions.

when researching on the internet I go by not believing everything I find out there. that if its something that is dear to my heart and something I really need to know about in relation to my own mental and physical health problems or something to help others (ie friend, family clients, college research papers....)is to contact my own treatment providers who can give me the accurate and up to date information based on todays standards.

actually, what i have read is based on several studies from the US on the topic. if you look on google scholars, there are a lot of studies published in medical and psychiatric/psychology journals, etc. where more in depth information is included, so it's not just random people writing a blog or articles on it with limited information.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by finding_my_way

actually, what i have read is based on several studies from the US on the topic. if you look on google scholars, there are a lot of studies published in medical and psychiatric/psychology journals, etc. where more in depth information is included, so it's not just random people writing a blog or articles on it with limited information.

Yes I have read the studies. problem is the studies are not what treatment providers here in the USA go by. anyone can do a study. many college psych classes require the students to do semester long term papers/ thesis papers (studies) and a part of becoming a treatment provider is conducting a thesis or study.

also if you look at the dates of a majority of the studies online right now you will see they were conducted before 2013. here in america everything changed over to new standards, new definitions and treatments for mental disorders.

Im not saying treatment providers can not use parts or all of these studies in their work with a client, treatment providers can use anything be it art, crafts, a book (whether it be fiction or non fiction, movies, pod casts,....they found that may help their clients or even information from a study if that will help their clients.

What I am saying is that here in America the whole mental health system has changed since 2013. what I posted above about BPD and DID/ dissociation and whether they are the same is according to the new standards not on the outdated information you find on the internet.

to find out what your own location goes by for whether BPD and dissociation are the same in your location you will need to contact your own treatment providers. they will explain the similarities and differences in the two disorders based on your locations present diagnostics and definitions.

[Luce]

This is what my treatment provider had to say about the topic of dissociative disorder -

(Quoted from another post I wrote on here) :

"Have just come back from the new therapist - 2nd time I have seen her. Today I asked her what she knew about dissociative disorders... she said she has worked with quite a few people with disassociative disorders and in fact has several other disassociative clients currently, so although she wouldn't say call herself an expert in disassociation she has had 'quite a bit of experience'. I was understandably skeptical and asked her what her understanding of dissociation is. She summed up by saying "disassociation is what happens when you are remembering a traumatic event and lose touch with the here and now. 'You disassociate from what is going on around you.'" At which point I asked her if she knows any therapists in the area who specialize in treating clients with dissociative disorders.
Seriously people. Come on!"

Frankly, reputable sites and research sources on the internet are a much more reliable source of information than any treatment provider I have found thus far in my area.

[finding_my_way]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

What I am saying is that here in America the whole mental health system has changed since 2013. what I posted above about BPD and DID/ dissociation and whether they are the same is according to the new standards not on the outdated information you find on the internet.

to find out what your own location goes by for whether BPD and dissociation are the same in your location you will need to contact your own treatment providers. they will explain the similarities and differences in the two disorders based on your locations present diagnostics and definitions.

i was not implying BPD and DID are the same. i am talking about the type of dissociation that exists in many people with BPD versus DID. they can look similar but are not.

the type of dissociation common in BPD can also cause gaps in memory for that period of time which is not the same as in DID where you may have an alter who takes up that time.

they can exist together though, BPD and DID (like in my case) with other variations of dissociation.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by finding_my_way

i was not implying BPD and DID are the same. i am talking about the type of dissociation that exists in many people with BPD versus DID. they can look similar but are not.

the type of dissociation common in BPD can also cause gaps in memory for that period of time which is not the same as in DID where you may have an alter who takes up that time.

they can exist together though, BPD and DID (like in my case) with other variations of dissociation.

I believe thats exactly what I said in my post above, only in different words. (that they are different, giving what my location calls each, and that they can happen together and that here where I am, when this happens its called dual diagnosis (having more than one diagnosis)

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by finding_my_way

i was not implying BPD and DID are the same. i am talking about the type of dissociation that exists in many people with BPD versus DID. they can look similar but are not.

the type of dissociation common in BPD can also cause gaps in memory for that period of time which is not the same as in DID where you may have an alter who takes up that time.

they can exist together though, BPD and DID (like in my case) with other variations of dissociation.

no you were not implying they are the same. if you go back and reread this thread you will see that my post about how my location catagorizes and defines the two was in reference to Abby's question in one of her posts that stated...."How can you figure out what is BPD and dissociation liked to that and what is DID? " and Luce's post on BPD and DID both being dissociative disorders.

here in my location BPD is not considered to be a dissociative disorder. a person with any number of mental or physical health problems can also have dissociation symptoms but my location separates the two into separate.....categories.... with completely separate diagnostics. here in america BPD is listed as a personality disorder where as DID has been removed from the personality disorder category and given its own category called dissociative disorders. confusing I know. these new standards have only been in affect for about 3 years now so its understandable that some locations are still calling DID a personality disorder when its no longer listed as a personality disorder.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by finding_my_way

i was not implying BPD and DID are the same. i am talking about the type of dissociation that exists in many people with BPD versus DID. they can look similar but are not.

the type of dissociation common in BPD can also cause gaps in memory for that period of time which is not the same as in DID where you may have an alter who takes up that time.

they can exist together though, BPD and DID (like in my case) with other variations of dissociation.

yes like already stated BPD and DID can happen together. my location has a mental health word for when this happens, here in america this is called being dual diagnosed (having more than one mental disorder at the same time) you can ask your treatment providers if they / canada has a special word or special phrasing for when a person has more than one problem at the same time.

[lucidity11]

So the dissociation in bpd isn't a part? It's just an episode of being dissociative?