[TrailRunner14]

I experienced EMDR for the first time with my counselor last night during my appointment. The holiday weekend was one I would not like to repeat. It had been triggering repeatedly more times than I could explain.

One seemed to stand out and he asked me if I would be open to try EMDR an see if it would help. It is amazing to me the peace I felt after we finished leaving his office and it stayed with me the rest of the evening. I also slept well last night.

Today, there are fragments that are coming to me. They aren't associated with what we talked about and worked through last night, I don't think. I do have a weird kind of headache but there is still a feeling of that peace left.

I have a couple of questions, if anyone can relate.

If there is a memory/fragment that cuts off, with no end, no answer to what the end result of the fragment was - can EMDR work with that?

Does EMDR somehow open the door for the rest of the fragment to become known?

The fragment is a piece of the memory, I think I'm seeing myself dissociate and then the tv shuts off. There's nothing else there.

Would EMDR process what you can recall without the rest of it? How can that give you peace and resolve? How can you see it as a past memory without an ending?

I hope that makes sense.

[Luce]

I don't know the answers to your questions - I am new to this whole EMDR thing myself. But isn't it wonderful to end a session and NOT be triggered? That is what I love about EMDR and the related exercises. It brings me peace in a way I haven't felt it before.
Would your T know the answers to these questions?

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Luce

I don't know the answers to your questions - I am new to this whole EMDR thing myself. But isn't it wonderful to end a session and NOT be triggered? That is what I love about EMDR and the related exercises. It brings me peace in a way I haven't felt it before.
Would your T know the answers to these questions?

Thank you Luce! Yes! The feeling of peace is amazing and leaving his office with that peace felt great!

I thought about emailing him my questions, but thought I'd ask here first.

[amandalouise]

yes emdr can cause a person to remember memories even small bits of memories. And yes you can work the emdr process with any memory even those that are not complete memories. In fact many people enter emdr with only a small piece of a memory that is bothering them. then through the process more and more of the memory comes to the surface. what matters is the outcome not the memory itself. you stated you felt calm and at peace, well thats what emdr is for, getting rid of the anxiety and stress a person feels about their self, their memories.

I recently did emdr with only one image that was especially annoying and stressful to me.... a chair. thats it a memory of a chair. through the process we focused on the chair.. what it looked like, what I felt when seeing it in my mind, whether it was by a wall, .... eventually through the process this bit memory (or as you call it a fragment of a memory) became clearer as to how and why I was seeing this image of a chair in my mind. now I am no longer bothered by the chair. I am calm and at peace with it and the memory.

my suggestion is talk with your treatment provider that you did the emdr with. they will help you to decide what you want to do with this new little piece of memory and whether in your situation if emdr will work for you like it did for me.

[TrailRunner14]

Thank you AL! I've been reading about it and had a great experience. It's all new to me, experience wise, and as usual I have many questions.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It encourages me that it's not an immediate thing. It's a work in slow progress, it seems.

"The slower you go, the more progress you make." I experience a love/hate reaction to that statement every time I hear it.

[TrailRunner14]

Coming back with another question. Hope that's ok.

*** This could be triggering ***

I met with my counselor and shared with him the fragment that was brought back so strongly. It's not a good place.

We did EMDR and dialed down the intensity of it to about a 6 on a scale of 0-10. I felt better and that part of me felt relief at being known. That's a good thing.

There is relief and anxiousness now. I'm feeling stretched in time between then and now, questioning if I can trust the fragment I'm seeing to be real.

It's kind of like I'm screwed either way. Not a good place and I don't know how to explain it, without going into detail that I would rather not do.

I've tried to journal about it, but it just feels like confusion and questions.

It's not helping that my husband is on an extended holiday vacation and I feel like I'm being watched. I know I'm not myself, but I don't know how to shut this down and ground myself. It's too real. I can't explain to him. He wouldn't understand or he would get angry because he doesn't understand.

Has anyone else been here? Does anyone have any suggestions?

They would be greatly appreciated!!

Thank you for hearing me!

[Lost_in_the_woods]

Watched from the inside or some outside source?

[TrailRunner14]

Forgive me. I don't understand.

[Luce]

You said your husband is away and you feel like you're being watched. I think Lost means do you feel like you are being watched from an inside part of you, or do you think a real person outside of yourself is watching you in some way?

It is really, really hard to trust the reality of some of the memories that other parts of us bring to us. I have been there (I think most dissociative people who have experienced amnesia can relate to this) and I know how truly challenging it can be to deal with. We went through many years of therapy gradually putting things together and then came to a point where we decided none of it was real. We abandoned therapy and we abandoned our selves. And we lived a semi-happy life for a while ignoring (dissociating!) all things that challenged that position. (I also need to add here that the 'semi-happy life' involved living in a straight-jacket so as to avoid any potential triggers that could challenge the decided upon world view.)
Now, many years later, I find myself here, faced with the evidence that the inner world was a reality all along, and the inner 'demons' we found there before are still there.

But, that doesn't mean that the things remembered there are literally true. It doesn't mean they aren't, either. I - we - will never know one way or the other. But I know now that the emotional reality of the inner demons is real. The feelings, reactions and pain they feel is real, and it needs to be dealt with. It is a part of this being here, and it isn't going to go away, and it isn't going to get better on its own.
This is all my very long and roundabout way of saying that the actual truth of the memories can hardly ever be verified, but it isn't important anyway. What is of crucial importance is healing the emotional truth.
What I have learned from my own experience is that if I depend on actual verification of the validity of the memories my others bring me before I will grant myself permission to accept their inner truth, then I will never be able to heal. That verification will never happen.

(By the way, two of our abusers admitted abusing us, and that still wasn't enough for us front ones to believe the memories of being abused by them, so go figure!)

[Luce]

I want to say more. Just ignore me if it isn't relevant.

Another challenge to believing the validity of the memories or memory fragments is that is what dissociation does. What are some of the key symptoms of dissociation? Depersonalization (I don't feel real) and derealization (the world doesn't feel real). In addition to that dissociated traumatic memories are often split up into discrete impressions of experiences - one part might feel the physical pain, another might hold the behavior, another might feel the sadness, another the rage, and yet another might hold the knowledge of the event but have no emotional or physical connection to it. When any one aspect of a memory is brought to consciousness on its own - for instance you might suddenly feel flooded with sadness but have no understanding of why; or you might get a sudden stab of pain but have no idea of what might be causing it - it doesn't feel real. The sense of realness can only be found in the total experience, when all of the fragments are experienced together.

So now there are two things - dissociated fragments of memory do not feel real, and even when dissociated memories are validated by external sources they still sometimes don't feel real.
And the third thing... dissociated fragments of self are real parts of the self. We don't know if what they hold is true or not. But we know that they hurt. We don't know if they have 'embellished' or 'created' or 'imagined' memories or not. But their pain affects us in very real ways. We kinda wish those dissociated parts would not exist or at least go away... but they do and they can't. z
I'm done now.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Lost_in_the_woods

Watched from the inside or some outside source?

I was not in a good place when I posted on this thread and i had to go back and read it. When i said that my husband was on an extended holiday vacation, what i meant to say was that my husband was off work, on vacation and hanging out at the house. He has slept in every morning and moved from the bed to his recliner for the past two weeks. from that point its a stream of Bonanza, Gunsmoke and Andy Griffith until i have wanted to scream.

i work from my home and my normal routine and space has been compromised greatly!! There has been no room for me to think or sort anything out. No space.

He can tell tnat im trying to work through something. I feel like a mouse with a cat. It's very unnerving.

He goes back to work this coming Tuesday!!! Space and breathing room!!!

[TrailRunner14]

Luce. if its ok, may I pm you.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Luce

I want to say more. Just ignore me if it isn't relevant.

Another challenge to believing the validity of the memories or memory fragments is that is what dissociation does. What are some of the key symptoms of dissociation? Depersonalization (I don't feel real) and derealization (the world doesn't feel real). In addition to that dissociated traumatic memories are often split up into discrete impressions of experiences - one part might feel the physical pain, another might hold the behavior, another might feel the sadness, another the rage, and yet another might hold the knowledge of the event but have no emotional or physical connection to it. When any one aspect of a memory is brought to consciousness on its own - for instance you might suddenly feel flooded with sadness but have no understanding of why; or you might get a sudden stab of pain but have no idea of what might be causing it - it doesn't feel real. The sense of realness can only be found in the total experience, when all of the fragments are experienced together.

So now there are two things - dissociated fragments of memory do not feel real, and even when dissociated memories are validated by external sources they still sometimes don't feel real.
And the third thing... dissociated fragments of self are real parts of the self. We don't know if what they hold is true or not. But we know that they hurt. We don't know if they have 'embellished' or 'created' or 'imagined' memories or not. But their pain affects us in very real ways. We kinda wish those dissociated parts would not exist or at least go away... but they do and they can't. z
I'm done now.

Thank you!! I've read your post several times. I dont have words to reply right now. There is much truth there and understanding.

sorting things out and would like to talk about it in a bit. if thats ok.

Thank you!

[TrailRunner14]

Ok. I'm having a tough time with an analytical part of me that wants answers and reasons/explanations.

Luce, I have read your post too many time and that part of me is not getting it. That part wants more. I don't really have words.

I met with my counselor tonight and we talked about it. That part of me blocks any understanding of it.

This part, "What I have learned from my own experience is that if I depend on actual verification of the validity of the memories my others bring me before I will grant myself permission to accept their inner truth, then I will never be able to heal. The verification will never happen."

Please forgive me. I feel stupid because I don't understand what that means.

[Luce]

If there is a part of you that is blocking the understanding of that it may well be doing that for a reason. Do you need to make sure it is okay to try to understand if before I try to explain what I mean a different way?

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by TrailRunner14

Ok. I'm having a tough time with an analytical part of me that wants answers and reasons/explanations.

Luce, I have read your post too many time and that part of me is not getting it. That part wants more. I don't really have words.

I met with my counselor tonight and we talked about it. That part of me blocks any understanding of it.

This part, "What I have learned from my own experience is that if I depend on actual verification of the validity of the memories my others bring me before I will grant myself permission to accept their inner truth, then I will never be able to heal. The verification will never happen."

Please forgive me. I feel stupid because I don't understand what that means.

my location words this same thing as being you dont have to know whether a memory is real or not in order to work on it. what matters is the feelings / emotions that this memory brings / makes you feel. sometimes there is no way to know whether a memory is real or not.

example....I have this one memory of people and a place. I knew the people and I knew the place but there was no way to find out if what happened in the memory was real or not... the place is gone, the people in the memory long gone and anyone who may be able to answer any of my questions are either too old, or have health issues that affect their memory or have long gone from this world...

so whats a person with this memory that is causing a problem supposed to do.. I could wait forever and I will never get my answers as to if this is real or not.

instead of focusing on whether the little piece of memory was real or not my treatment provider pushed questioning the memory out the window and refocused our attention and work on things like what emotions and problems that memory was causing me... panic, anxiety, nightmares, flashbacks....

it didnt matter whether the memory was real or not. what mattered was taking the memory at face value what in the memory was causing me to panic and other problems. we talked about the memory, and worked the EMDR process as it appeared not trying to read more into it like whether it was real or not, just took it at face value. this allowed me to work the memory out to where it no longer bothered me.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Luce

If there is a part of you that is blocking the understanding of that it may well be doing that for a reason. Do you need to make sure it is okay to try to understand if before I try to explain what I mean a different way?

This question came back to me today. My appt with my counselor last night is whacked up into bits and pieces. There are a few things I can put together. One of those is a discussion we were having about analytical and denial. I have no idea what we were talking about. I had just made a statement and it's like my brain shut off. Complete blank. The best I can figure out is that denial stepped in and - I don't really have words to explain or describe what that felt like.

So maybe denial is not in favor of the discussion that going on. I do remember my counselor asking me if it was maybe a gatekeeper. I'm not sure if that was before or after that happened.

Anyway. Your post popped into my mind and I just wanted to comment on it.

[Luce]

Sometimes you just have to go with the inner flow... or stop-gate, as it may be.
Sometimes just observing and being aware of 'what is' is plenty of growth in the right direction for now.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Luce

Sometimes you just have to go with the inner flow... or stop-gate, as it may be.
Sometimes just observing and being aware of 'what is' is plenty of growth in the right direction for now.

I agree. Thank you Luce.

[uafscdkfn]

Emdr is consistent with change

[yagr]

Perhaps helpful to those of us in this forum who are considering EMDR - here is a therapists checklist for utilizing EMDR with dissociative clients:

1. Survival/Environmental safety:
2. Family safety:
3. Sobriety/abstinence:
4. Is abuse occurring now:
5. Ability to name affect:
6. Ability to tolerate affect:
7. Grounding ability:
8. Candor:
9. Rapport:
10. Trust:
11. Phobic avoidance of loss of control:
12. Agreed upon emergency procedures:
13. Contract for no harm and back-up plan:
14. Self control procedures including relaxation:
15. Big picture view of course of treatment:
16. Support network:
17. Financial:
18. Medical contraindications:
19. Ability to tolerate positive expectations, hope:

[whispers_inthedark]

I experienced it for the first time last week and we decided not to do it anytime soon again because it was difficult. It led to heightened senses and emotions concerning the memory I was stuck on at the time, and the alter whos memory it was disappeared for a while because she couldn't take it.