Wife's affair may spell doom for our 20-year marriage

Mapman · Dec 08, 2017, 06:58 PM

Purple, I'm glad I don't have to do it as well. It is a relief.

Purple,Violet,Blue · Dec 08, 2017, 07:02 PM

Yes... a big relief...

Mapman · Dec 13, 2017, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04mxyz250f

I'm going through something pretty similar to this currently. It has only gotten worse since day one. My wife has tried to stop everything with the other person but she keeps having contact because she says she is addicted and she cant explain it. It is pure selfishness and not being able to be happy with what you have. Everyone has told my wife that she has it made and everything seems perfect for her, but she always wants more. I do not think your wife will actually stop. I feel like I've tried everything with my wife, but she is not willing to put forth the effort to get the other person out of her life. My wife did the same when divorce was brought up and her moving out was brought up, she started pulling me back in by telling me she would try...then a few days later more contact.
Obviously it could be different for you, but I dont think she will realize it until she goes and does it, then she will realize what she left and that what she left it for is not actually better or what she thought it was. That is where I am at right now. It sucks to know there is still part of me thats would give her a chance, but I'm just hoping that fades before she hits rock bottom and realizes she had what she wanted all along.

I've been reading back through my thread and found your post, 04. I feel for you and am really sorry for what your wife is putting you through. In some ways, it's worse that your wife agreed to stop but then didn't. At least my wife never agreed to stop. And like you, I keep thinking that there is a chance for us, but every day that ticks by since I found out is another nail in the coffin of our marriage because of the cruelty of keeping me on a string. Why would I want to be married to someone who, at best, is weirdly indecisive about somebody that's supposed to be the most important person in her life, or at worst is just plain cruel?

So that's the thing--She has not said to me, unequivocally, that she wants to stay with me nor has she said that she would be better off without me. That's selfishness. She wants it all. I kind of think she wants to keep me around so if it doesn't work out with the other dude she can fall back to me. But she's not accounting for my strong will and integrity.

She has moved out now--she is living in an apartment about a mile from our house. I am so glad that I held firm to that from the beginning. We've decided to limit communications to only the absolute necessary stuff--kids, logistics, business. She violated that this morning when she emailed me that her "head is still spinning" and she's glad that mine is not. I emailed her back and reminded her of our agreement and went on to say that it's not a competition for who's suffering more.

Over the weekend I learned about the concept of "trickle truth" in an adulterous affair. That's when the cheater won't tell you everything about what went on, so you have to take the evidence you have and piece together the story by filling in the gaps so you can try to come to some sort of understanding as to why they would do this and the extent of the betrayal. So of course, you fill in the gaps with the worst-case scenarios. That's what I've been doing, because my wife won't answer all of my questions. I think she thinks she's protecting me from hurt, but it's more hurtful to withhold from me. Either that or she knows that she's done with me, and it doesn't matter whether I know the whole truth or not.

Sorry about the long post. Again, it's good for me to have this venue to vent.

Mapman · Dec 13, 2017, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04mxyz250f

I dont think she will ever stop until she goes and tries it. I'm going through a similar situation. My wife "fell in love" with a woman and is leaving and moving in with her. There is a lot more to the story, but she doesnt see anything but what she wants to. My kids are 2 and 5. Its very sad. Its pure selfishness. Some people cant see what they have and be happy with what they have. They have to go and try to find something "better", but really they are just not happy with themselves. I have no doubt your wife will regret it when the newness and excitement of all this wears off. I believe that will happen to me to, I just hope that part of me thats wants to work it out is gone by then.

Geez, what is going on here? And your kids are so young, 04. I'm so sorry for what she's doing to you.

My wife is kind of bullheaded, so I can't be sure that she would feel regret if/when the newness of the other guy wears off. A friend spoke to my wife and reminded her that I've been there all along the past 20 years, helping her with her mother who has Alzheimers, taking the kids to practice and school, helping her when her dad passed away, and all the other major things that a married couple have to do. The other guy has only been around for the last year and it's been long distance. The only thing he's helped her with is stroking her ego sexually.

I think they will figure out a way to consummate their relationship--particularly if he visits or moves here like he is planning. I really hope they get together--not because I want her to be happy or anything altruistic like that, but more because it will provide finality for me. We will truly be done with each other.

But if it doesn't work out with him--here's where her bullheadedness comes in to play--I don't think she will express any regret about the entire thing. She will state that if she had to do it all over again she'd do it exactly the same way. She said to me that if it doesn't work out with him or with me she's "prepared to go it alone." So she's already mapped out her future so that she looks stoic and brave. That she took a chance in life. But she'll never reflect on the damage she did.

sky457 · 07:11 PM

Map, I’m sorry. What she has done to you is brutal and continues to be so. Hold your ground. Be unwavering, you deserve the best.

Mapman · Dec 14, 2017, 08:24 PM

Thanks sky. Yesterday and today I felt much better than I have in weeks. I feel like I am gaining control of myself and my future. Whether she will be with me in that future or not is kind of irrelevant at this point--now it's about what I can do to maintain personal integrity and build self reliance. I'm going to need that in the future either way, right?

It's funny because I've wrapped so much of my view of my self in the context of being a husband and a dad. I have an interesting, enlightening journey ahead of me.

sky457 · Dec 14, 2017, 09:41 PM

Agreed. Do whatever you want.

Purple,Violet,Blue · Dec 15, 2017, 10:15 AM

Glad you had a few good days. Yeah, just keep looking forward, forward, forward.

If you were my dad, I'd be really proud of you.

Mapman · Dec 15, 2017, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple,Violet,Blue

Glad you had a few good days. Yeah, just keep looking forward, forward, forward.

If you were my dad, I'd be really proud of you.

OK, Purple, you are just an awesome person! Thanks, and hugs right back to you!

Open Eyes · Dec 16, 2017, 02:39 PM

What you have been slowly learning about with this experience is that your wife doesn't want to respect or care about you, that she never really included that in her relationship with you. That is the kind of person you married and with this parting you now have a chance to actually see if you can find a woman that CAN respect and appreciate you so you can actually get to experience what it's like to have a relationship like that.

Mapman · Apr 22, 2018, 03:54 PM

Hey all. Remember me? I'm still kicking now, 4 months after my wife moved out. Just wanted to provide an update.

I've had a very up and down four months, but it feels like things are really smoothing out for me. We are marching toward divorce, which I think will happen within the next month. It will be a good thing. My ex and I have been in counseling regularly for the last three months, spending a lot of time ironing out what went wrong and trying to figure out how to effectively co-parent. She and I have been meeting regularly, and I'm finally at a point where I'm letting go of the pain and anger and acknowledging her place in my life as the mother of my kids. Letting go of the pain and anger is helping me because it's less work than holding on to it, and I have a lot of things that I want to do with my life so I don't need the constant distraction of that painful history.

She and I talked for a while yesterday and it is very clear that I'm moving on and she is the one who is hurting now. The guy that she was messing around with is not really in the picture anymore. She indicated to me a while back that she realized he had no more intention of pursuing her meditation practice with her than I ever did, which I think was a major disappointment to her. So now she doesn't have anyone and says that she is "content with going it alone." That makes me a little sad, but it's a sadness for somebody whose bad behavior had unintended consequences for her. We did have 20 years together, and it's difficult to see her hurting. She told me she's spent a lot of time crying. I've told her that's unfortunate.

As for me, I dated somebody for a while, but about a week ago we mutually agreed that it was too early for me to be dating. I really need to be dating myself right now, so that is what I am going to focus on. I want to spend time with my kids, work on my house and my finances, spend time with friends, etc. If someone comes along during that and it feels right I won't deny it, but I won't be out there really looking for it right now.

One major thing that I've realized in the last couple of weeks was a mistake I made in my marriage, and I want to pass this on to other men and women who, like me, came from a dysfunctional, chaotic childhood household. My tendency in my married home was to seek stability and predictability above all else. Any type of disagreement with my wife, major or minor, felt threatening to the stability. Even asking for what I wanted felt like it would jeopardize things, so I didn't ask. And these recent events made me realize how much wasn't said, or requested, or demanded that I had every right to ask for or pursue during my marriage. I spent a lot of time denying myself of things while making sure everyone around me was getting what they needed. I was the fixer, the "smoother-overer" in the family. I avoided confrontation with my wife for 20 years and denied myself of so much. And you know what? At times I resented the people around me because of that. Don't get me wrong--my poor communication was never an excuse for her to cheat on me, but it absolutely did not bring us closer, and my secret resentment provided something of a wedge.

So my lesson in this is to be clear with myself about what I want, to let those around me know about it, and to pursue it if it isn't harmful to me or my loved ones. And if they disagree they can let me know, but that's much better than denying myself things that I've worked for 35 years to attain. I can no longer fashion my life to meet what I think are others' expectations of me. I gotta do me.

Apr 22, 2018, 04:37 PM

Thank you for the update. I'm glad you are doing well. It is certainly not an easy thing to go through, but you are handling it admirably. Hugs.

Open Eyes · Apr 22, 2018, 07:48 PM

Thanks for the update Mapman, sounds like you have been growing as a person and in a healthier direction.

Shazerac · Apr 23, 2018, 12:09 PM

Glad to hear you are doing well and marching on. Thank you so much for the update

s4ndm4n2006 · Apr 24, 2018, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapman

One major thing that I've realized in the last couple of weeks was a mistake I made in my marriage, and I want to pass this on to other men and women who, like me, came from a dysfunctional, chaotic childhood household. My tendency in my married home was to seek stability and predictability above all else. Any type of disagreement with my wife, major or minor, felt threatening to the stability. Even asking for what I wanted felt like it would jeopardize things, so I didn't ask. And these recent events made me realize how much wasn't said, or requested, or demanded that I had every right to ask for or pursue during my marriage. I spent a lot of time denying myself of things while making sure everyone around me was getting what they needed. I was the fixer, the "smoother-overer" in the family. I avoided confrontation with my wife for 20 years and denied myself of so much. And you know what? At times I resented the people around me because of that. Don't get me wrong--my poor communication was never an excuse for her to cheat on me, but it absolutely did not bring us closer, and my secret resentment provided something of a wedge.

So my lesson in this is to be clear with myself about what I want, to let those around me know about it, and to pursue it if it isn't harmful to me or my loved ones. And if they disagree they can let me know, but that's much better than denying myself things that I've worked for 35 years to attain. I can no longer fashion my life to meet what I think are others' expectations of me. I gotta do me.

Not wanting to rock the boat, kind of thing is not an uncommon thing by many partners in a marriage. I think in particular a lot of men, for some reason, end up like this. I am glad that you have come to that point where you can see your contribution to the breakdown in a productive way, meaning you are looking into yourself and plan to work on yourself for awhile.

Glad also that you realized it isn't time to date yet. Everyone is different but within a few short months, it's usually not long enough yet to find yourself and your independence that is so needed in relationships today.

My favorite statement you made here is

Quote:

I can no longer fashion my life to meet what I think are others' expectations of me. I gotta do me

Good for you! Be you... do what you want, when you want and how you want and at some point someone that accepts you as you are will come along!

Purple,Violet,Blue · Apr 24, 2018, 05:41 PM

Really glad to read this, Mapman! That's great advice for us all. Good luck!

RainyDay107 · Apr 27, 2018, 04:17 AM

I just read this thread and I am happy for you, Mapman. You’ve been through a lot and have come out swimmingly. I’m not surprised that guy lost interest in her and I wondered if she was “enjoying the comforts of marriage,” as a previous member posted. Financial security.

Her contacting you from her apartment and saying she was hurting, etc. while you weren’t...breaking your agreement that it would be “business only contact, like co-parenting.” You responded well....she was giving you a Pity Play and you didn’t take the bait. Good job.

I was married for 18-years and learned he didn’t love me. I’m pretty sure there was infidelity. It’s so confusing to be told you’re loved by them for so many years....and then you learn that was a facade. In my case, he didn’t love me. He was there for the money.

I got out, too. We are in a better place. I wish you the best.

MrMoose · Apr 27, 2018, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapman

My tendency in my married home was to seek stability and predictability above all else. Any type of disagreement with my wife, major or minor, felt threatening to the stability. Even asking for what I wanted felt like it would jeopardize things, so I didn't ask.

Hi Mapman—
Yeah I’m guilty of that too—but when I wanted something badly and never asked directly and got turned down or blown off sometimes it wouldn’t matter ... but sometimes even though it mattered I’d try to play the cheery husband part or just be guy-stoic and the emotion would just come out in some other dysfunctional way like being passive aggressive or sullen. It wasn’t healthy and didn’t help the marriage at all because it never set appropriate limits for my wife. So when she was so crazy later in the marriage I can’t help feeling I could have helped steer her away from that behavior if I’d set better limits and better boundaries earlier in the marriage.

Mapman · May 11, 2018, 12:00 PM

Hi all. I've experienced a major degradation in my mood and outlook over the last couple of weeks. It was triggered by a particular event that has resulted in me regressing substantially, and a lot of the progress that I wrote about in my previous post was lost, unfortunately.

The event was that my wife's personal email started coming through our shared email account again, and I saw new emails from her lover. For those of you who haven't read this entire thread, this is how I found out about her affair back in November 2017.

Through this new set of emails, I found out that he moved to our town, and that they were seeing each other. That news was a surprise but wasn't particularly shocking because I knew that was his plan all along--to move back to the west coast from the east coast. What made it difficult was that it was a trigger to the trauma that I experienced back in November. It made me start to question everything all over again.

I had made such good progress and I'm disappointed that I lost it. I'm losing sleep again because I'm fixated on the fact that she was never the person I thought she was and that makes me feel like my entire 20-year marriage was a sham. That I loved and lived with and had two kids with and devoted my life to a woman who was not devoted to me. It's painful.

I'm seeing my doctor about medication to help me stop obsessively thinking about this so that I can regain at least some of the certainty and autonomy I had a couple of weeks ago. It's like a waking nightmare because when I think about any event over the last 20 years, happy or sad, it is sullied by knowing that she was not 100% with me as a partner in our marriage. She always had one foot out the door--sometimes passively, sometimes actively.

It has been six months now since I found out about her affairs, and my obsessive thinking is affecting other aspects of my life--my work, my relationship with my kids, even my driving has suffered because I'm not fully paying attention. Can anyone give me some words of wisdom to help me through this? I would love to get to a place, mentally, where her past and current actions are irrelevant to me so I can get on with living my life.

continuosly blue · May 28, 2018, 06:33 AM

It’s unfortunate that wisdom only seems to come with age. It’s very disappointing to realize that after many years you are , or were, just being used.
To be abandoned by the one person we would do anything for. Life is just a game where people just use each other to survive. To get by. To try and find some happiness in a cruel world. The main thing I found to be helpful after such a betrayal is to start being selfish and just care and think about yourself. Because if you don’t you will be run into the ground. I too wish that I could be as heartless and unfeeling as these people seem to be. But the best revenge is personal success. Do whatever it takes to make new memories. Create new “loops” of thoughts to replace the old ones. Realize that marriage is nothing more than a contract that is hard to live up to. After awhile love has nothing to do with it. Sad.

Buffy01 · May 28, 2018, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapman

Hi all. First time poster here. I registered with psychcentral after reading several threads and finding the responses to be generally kind, supportive, and sympathetic to peoples' problems. I've seen some people challenging the original posters on how they are thinking, and I appreciate that as well. I'm not here for an echo chamber, just words of thought from all of you.

I found out that my wife of 20 years (we are in our early 50s) is carrying on a phone/email relationship with somebody she dated before we started dating. I found out four days ago because she got a new phone and her private email started being sent to my phone too. The emails were very sexual in nature, and peppered with a lot of "love" talk directed at him. It was devastating to say the least. The emails that I found dated back about 2 months. I decided to check his phone number against our cellphone bills and found that they have been communicating for almost 10 months, since early 2017.

I figured out who the guy was and through google searching determined that he lives all the way across the country, but used to live in my city and still owns a house here. He's married as well, and I know he has applied for a job here in my town, based on their email exchanges.

I needed to talk to somebody to figure out what to do--I was physically shaking and unable to think clearly. Just coincidentally (and fortunately), later that morning I had my regular Monday therapist appointment. I've been seeing my therapist for 3 1/2 years for a variety of issues from my childhood. I told him what I found, and he gave me the courage to confront her about it.

She did not deny anything. She met him in grad school in the early-mid 1990s. She said that she broke it off with him 20+ years ago when she decided to date me exclusively. She confirmed that they hadn't seen each other in person. She told me that this all started after she completed a 10-day Vipassana meditation retreat which she has done every year for several years. Basically during that retreat she "realized" that she needed to pursue this relationship with this guy. It's something about some need that she has sexually (to be dominated) and she felt that he was the only person she could pursue this with. They've been talking several times a month for the last 10 months.

I want to tell you all the various feelings I've had since that conversation, but I don't want this to go on overly long. Suffice it to say I have never cried this much in my life. We've had few conversations over the last four days, but during one discussion yesterday she admitted to meeting him at a hotel about 2-3 years into our marriage, so that would have been 18 years ago. They had sex, and that was right after her first experience with Vipassana meditation. I had no idea about this encounter until yesterday.

So here are some of the most salient points that I really need some help with:

We have two kids--one in middle school and the other in high school.
She has told me that she doesn't want to lose me.
She has told me that she needs to work through this. She is not saying that she will stop, and even if she did I would not believe her because her meditation practice is such a huge part of her life.
I believe she has communicated with him since I found out.
I have informed her that I will not participate in sex or any talk having to do with loving each other until I can be certain that this affair is over. That I want to be the only love in her life and refuse to be a sucker.
She has more or less indicated that the fact that I do not practice Vipassana meditation is a hindrance--or at the very least not helpful--to our relationship. Not in a mean way or anything, just very matter-of-factly. More like we have different belief systems.

I asked her that how, in the universe of all the options for dealing with these sexual desires that she has (talking to me about them, marital counseling, etc.) how did she decide her best option was to betray me? Her answer was that she HAD to pay attention to what she was receiving in her Vipassana practice, and that she had tried other options to no avail. This was a clear obfuscation because she had never pursued discussing her desires with me, and we had never seen a counselor about it.

So there you have it. We will be setting up an appointment with a marital counselor in a couple of days, which I am completely open to. But I have to admit that I'm at a point where my goal here is to protect myself and my mental health, and I'm less concerned with saving the marriage. We had a good thing until four days ago and now it just feels shot.

Thanks to anyone who has read through all of this. I really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions folks might have.

p.s. I hope this doesn't come across as an indictment of Vipassana meditation. I do not blame the meditation practice for my wife's choices. Well, maybe I did for a second, but that was early on.

Maybe it time that you look for legal help by legally fixing where she would lose everything including then right to see her children should you walk out an continued the affair. Then I go ahead get a restraining order against the guy she is having an affair with and let the wife know what is going on.

Mapman · Sep 18, 2018, 01:43 PM

Hey, it's been over 4 months since my last post. I was in a bad place back then in May, and I'm in a much better place now.

I am now at a place where I recognize that my life now is much better than it would have been had I stayed with my cheating wife. She is really becoming less and less important to me, and I see that I can have a relationship with her that has no emotional component to it. That frees me up to be romantic with someone else who has entered my life. Someone who understands what I went through, who is patient, and most of all who cares about me and wants me to be me, not someone she wishes I was.

For anyone out there going through a traumatic breakup with a partner, know that it does get better. Take your time. Live your life. Talk to your health care professionals--both mental and physical. Allow yourself to feel bad AND allow yourself to feel good. Lean on friends and family. Say "YES" to stuff!

And one other thing that has helped me tremendously that some of you might find controversial: I am holding on to a piece of the grudge, the hurt, with my ex-wife.

I know we are supposed to forgive, and the reason to forgive is to allow ourselves to be freed from the baggage and not allow the other person to have some control over our feelings. But I am required to maintain a relationship with this woman because she is the mother of my kids, which means I have to see her and interact with her. That is dangerous for me because of the familiarity of being with her for 20+ years, and knowing that she knows me well enough to manipulate me. I've been surprised a couple of times by feelings of warmth when I've been around her, and then being jarred into remembering the horrible way she treated me. That is a gut punch, which I think of as PTSD, and which affects me for some time after seeing her.

So my solution is to hold on to some of that ill will so that I do not get those warm feelings from the past. It's purely a protection mechanism that I am using now, and over time I see the need for it diminishing, particularly as the kids get older and head off into the world. But it is incredibly helpful now with helping me move on. This doesn't involve actively badmouthing her (and never, ever saying anything negative about her to the kids), but looking at her honestly and acknowledging that she is not somebody that I would be friends with, let alone someone I would be emotionally involved with because I do not want people of such low character to be part of my inner circle.

Just to be clear, while she has made some overtures of regret about the way things turned out (including somewhat anemic indications that she regrets hurting me), I have not received a clear message from her that she regrets any of her actions. In addition, she has never asked me for forgiveness in a substantial way that fully admits and addresses what she did wrong. In my mind it's because she doesn't think she did anything wrong, that she was following her path that she HAD to follow.

This feels so right to me--the right way to go forward and continue to heal. It puts me in control.

Buffy01 · Sep 18, 2018, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous59898

I personally suspect the meditation is an excuse. She chose to have an affair. Has she apologised for the hurt she caused you?

'Working through it' seems like an excuse to keep on as before to me. Sorry but her reactions sound like she doesn't care about your feelings.

The counseling should hopefully help you work out what you both want.

Sorry I can't be more encouraging.

I completely agree

Buffy01 · Sep 18, 2018, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous59898

I personally suspect the meditation is an excuse. She chose to have an affair. Has she apologised for the hurt she caused you?

'Working through it' seems like an excuse to keep on as before to me. Sorry but her reactions sound like she doesn't care about your feelings.

The counseling should hopefully help you work out what you both want.

Sorry I can't be more encouraging.

I completely agree! I think it's just an excuse.

Open Eyes · Sep 18, 2018, 03:16 PM

Good to hear that you have progressed towards meeting someone who can appreciate you and help you open up to being more positive about yourself and your life. By doing this you can begin to learn what you had missed in your relationship that you may have not realized before. Could be you were actually unfulfilled and just didn't know it, it's important that you allow yourself to find that out instead of obsessing about how your ex wife disappointed you and let you down. It's like wearing the same sneakers for years, somehow losing them and feeling really upset but then you find a new kind of sneakers that are WAY BETTER and you finally get to a point where you say, damn, glad I lost those old sneakers cause this pair is WAY BETTER and I would NEVER go back even if I could.

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