[OblivionIsAtHand]

I recently find myself back to the point I was: depressed, and with seemingly few positive options. I've had this therapist for a while who, at first was great I thought, but then it slowly unraveled that there was very little she could do. I've had therapists in the past, and that tided me over back when I was more naive. This latest therapist though, was ticking all the right boxes despite the fact that my worldview has been so bleak in recent years and basically trusted incredibly few people; at first blush it appeared to be a dream therapist. As I got deeper into the sessions I was basically informed that therapists aren't allowed to console or even express much empathy outwardly. This shattered my preconception of what therapy was. I thought it should be a sanctuary of sorts, and yes, while I've never been judged or anything, it's basically just the therapist saying 'mhm' or asking questions.

Yes, this therapist was good in the sense that she was always present, unambiguous, and has offered plenty of ideas. But I was to say the least expecting more personal care. I perhaps naively thought there was more consolation and all of that. Based on the many articles I've read as to what constitutes good therapy, and what therapy should entail, I had my hopes aimed high. Now, sadly, I realize there is no nurturing presence as I imagined. She told me she can't really offer sentiment like 'I'm sorry you feel that way.' etc. So, I don't really see how there can be much healing. I'm back to feeling like therapy is a big scam (this is my 8th therapist. Mind you, I haven't left many of them due to dissatisfaction, but for other circumstances).

So I'm left back where I was. Incredibly bitter and sad. Without hope. And while I've never attempted suicide, my suicidal ideation has increased more and more. My mom lacks the ability to console as much as I need; she's mostly at a loss as to what to do. What do I do from here? Are there therapists out there that offer more personal care? I've been wasting my money the last few sessions is what's for sure; and today, after clearly looking deeply despondent I was merely offered a 'hang in there'. Perhaps I was misguided. Or perhaps there's different therapists out there that do genuinely offer what I consider actual care.

But this has been almost like a bad break-up, if I had to suspect that's what it feels like; never actually experienced such a thing. This may sound bad, but I think part of what makes this so bad is that this person - yes, I'm talking about the therapist - is incredibly beautiful and intelligent (I felt somebody like this would be even more secure with themselves) - now, before you cast judgment, realize all I'm saying is it makes the sense of 'rejection' (perhaps not the right word) seem all that much worse. The apparent coldness stings that much more.

Needless to say, I'm shattered. Weird, I know. It's hard to say why completely, but my OCD factors in. But so much of my hope hinged on this idea that there's this benevolent voice of reason out there - with the right blend of compassion and intelligence. Now that small (I say 'small', but truthfully it provided me with tons of hope knowing that there was that one person out there who understood it all. Who got it all.) flicker of optimism I had to cling to is slowly burning out.

And please, no 'I was lucky enough to have a parent that genuinely understands and cares..' sanctimonious posts. That kind of **** doesn't really help.

[seesaw]

This is odd because I've had plenty of therapists who have said "I'm sorry you feel that way." All of my therapists and my two most recent pdocs have been very empathetic and encouraging and I felt like offered me emotional support. Not like they were emotionally invested, but I felt like they acknowledged my emotions and understood that they were distressing me and genuinely wanted me to feel better about myself and my life.

If empathy is what you need, and people who can truly look at you and validate you, I would suggest some group support meetings. In fact, I have found group support meetings way more helpful than therapy. Because it's a group of people who validate me and understand what I'm feeling. NAMI is a great place to go. Also places like Emotions Anonymous or, if you fit, Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families (ACA). They are judgment free zones where you will receive a lot of empathy and personal care.

It just sounds like she was a bad therapist. They exist. None of my Ts have been outright bad, they just didn't fit my needs. Like I had one who worked out of a church and she had a religious background. She was very sweet, but I just began to feel uncomfortable after a few visits, so I switched. She wasn't bad, just not the right fit for me.

I get it about your mom or family not being there for you emotionally. That's why these support groups are so great. You get that support and validation you need from people who truly understand and don't judge.

Hope this is helpful. And for what it's worth, I am sorry you are going through this.

Seesaw

[OblivionIsAtHand]

seesaw, wow. Thank you very much for that post. I wasn't sure what to expect on here anymore. I appreciate your suggestion about the support groups; this is something I've been mulling over for a bit. It was hard to envision myself in such a group, but it may indeed be what I need after all.

For the record, my therapist WAS very good. Best I'd had up till recently. Whether or not she is bad now I cannot say.

Like I had one who worked out of a church and she had a religious background. She was very sweet, but I just began to feel uncomfortable after a few visits, so I switched. She wasn't bad, just not the right fit for me.

I know that dilemma entirely. My therapist before last was a bit religious too, and while very nice, as an atheist it just didn't work when so much of her advice was predicated on what I considered to be outright falsehoods.

Thanks again for that post.

On a side note, how has Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation worked for you?

[MissIvy1968]

Originally Posted by seesaw

This is odd because I've had plenty of therapists who have said "I'm sorry you feel that way." All of my therapists and my two most recent pdocs have been very empathetic and encouraging and I felt like offered me emotional support. Not like they were emotionally invested, but I felt like they acknowledged my emotions and understood that they were distressing me and genuinely wanted me to feel better about myself and my life.

If empathy is what you need, and people who can truly look at you and validate you, I would suggest some group support meetings. In fact, I have found group support meetings way more helpful than therapy. Because it's a group of people who validate me and understand what I'm feeling. NAMI is a great place to go. Also places like Emotions Anonymous or, if you fit, Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families (ACA). They are judgment free zones where you will receive a lot of empathy and personal care.

It just sounds like she was a bad therapist. They exist. None of my Ts have been outright bad, they just didn't fit my needs. Like I had one who worked out of a church and she had a religious background. She was very sweet, but I just began to feel uncomfortable after a few visits, so I switched. She wasn't bad, just not the right fit for me.

I get it about your mom or family not being there for you emotionally. That's why these support groups are so great. You get that support and validation you need from people who truly understand and don't judge.

Hope this is helpful. And for what it's worth, I am sorry you are going through this.

Seesaw

Great reply! You and I have the same diagnosis, which is nice to see. I agree with you completely. Therre are good and bad Therapists out there and all of them are different. Keep searchimg, until you find one that fits! Good Luck.

[OblivionIsAtHand]

Now I am not even really sure what one is actually supposed to get from therapy. Thought I had an inkling of an idea of what one is supposed to achieve with therapy, but that's all gone now. It's unclear how it's supposed to help now, and what the scope of the ability of the therapist is.

I find it's not helping, because I'm still really ****ing bitter. I really, really, really, really, really loath people.

[cool09]

I was basically informed that therapists aren't allowed to console or even express much empathy outwardly.

I never knew that. Come to think of it I never had a therapist or psychologist tell me they were sorry for the way I felt. Most of my therapists have been like robots without much feeling. I had a great PDOC in the hospital in the 90's that cared for me.

[Fuzzybear]

I was mistaken too, naive I guess.. having had ... sub optimal parents I had hoped I’d found a therapist with some intelligence, empathy and compassion. As it turned out, I was mistaken...this was a bad t. But there are good therapists, I suggest not hoping for too much though ..

[OblivionIsAtHand]

I suggest not hoping for too much though

I'm not sure what too much entails at this point.

I feel like there should be more objective measures put into place as to what constitutes good therapy.

[avlady]

Boy, reading this i see myself with the best Therapist I've ever known. She could also be considered my friend! I don't know why someone who is a therapist not be able to show empathy or any type of caring concern, but i too have had my share of poor therapists too after being in the system over 30 years. I thank you for helping me realize what I have.

[OblivionIsAtHand]

I thank you for helping me realize what I have.

Glad my discomfort could provide you with a modicum of self-enjoyment!

And thank you for that gratitudinal yet vaguely impudent reply.

Let me recapitulate: this is my best therapist (but do I think therapy is helping all that much? No, not really. Used to quite a bit.) . I did say I was unsure if she was good anymore, but I tend to think she's fine now. If someone gleaned this is some horrible, horrible person from this that's your own imaginative streak at play, and you may have misinterpreted.This is by no means a terrible therapist. I'm better now: I've simply written off that humanity is irredeemably unempathetic - not empathetic in the way I'd envision I mean - because of my ideals of empathy, and there's a freedom in that; I'd always suspected that humanity was garbage (with respect to a handful of individuals who may brush closely with fitting the bill), and I was of course right, but now I can go a shade further and affix my priorities to learning to navigate through the wreckage however dismally one must (be it being the dog that eats the other dog or swindling the swindlers--you get the idea), unless there's some lushly imagined, exoticised enclave out there I'm overlooking where the compassionate roam - frolic to and fro. At the time it was just a little disheartening to learn that she's not able to say things like 'I'm sorry you feel that way.' and so forth; I waxed histrionic on it at the time, but it IS a damper on an otherwise commendable therapist (by no means mean or disrespectful etc. etc.) That's the main drawback. And I still question to what degree a therapist should/can nurture. I may look for yet another therapist sometime, but not too soon. There are therapists who are more inclined to bend the rules a little, and that's probably more what I was expecting. I was expecting more of a 'friend', and I only receive that to some degree. She goes overtime in sessions, allows me to text her, and so forth. I'm told the therapist must have a positive regard toward the client, and while the illusion is present that she is cordial and benevolent, I would never truly know how the therapist considers me. I would have guessed it's a rule of thumb that the therapist MUST be a compassionate facilitator, but I'm not even sure how true that is now; not that this therapist is necessarily dispassionate, but there ARE, regrettably, moments where I'd like to see more sympathy. If it's written in stone I'll bring it up.

There is the further complicated angle that I experienced mild transference toward this person initially. But I've come out of that.

Originally Posted by OblivionIsAtHand

And I still question to what degree a therapist should/can nurture. I may look for yet another therapist sometime, but not too soon. There are therapists who are more inclined to bend the rules a little, and that's probably more what I was expecting. I was expecting more of a 'friend', and I only receive that to some degree. She goes overtime in sessions, allows me to text her, and so forth. I'm told the therapist must have a positive regard toward the client, and while the illusion is present that she is cordial and benevolent, I would never truly know how the therapist considers me. I would have guessed it's a rule of thumb that the therapist MUST be a compassionate facilitator, but I'm not even sure how true that is now; not that this therapist is necessarily dispassionate, but there ARE, regrettably, moments where I'd like to see more sympathy. If it's written in stone I'll bring it up.

There is the further complicated angle that I experienced mild transference toward this person initially. But I've come out of that.

This part all sounds like growth; you are not feeling as dependent. Maybe real change only happens within and a therapist can encourage it but then it has to become intrinsic. I think, even with a good therapist, we can get to the point that they have shown us all they can or have helped us through a rough spot then it is time to move on or take a break. I only see therapists who are willing to see me on an as needed basis. I have a therapist who knows my issues who I can call on if I need her but I prefer to be doing so well that I don't need to go. However, I try to go often enough (quarterly--sometimes even less when my budget is tight) so that there is someone I can go to if I start having problems. When I first went to therapy, I was seriously depressed and it did help.

[Quarter life]

Hi OblivionIsAtHand.

I was fortunate enough to have a top echelon psychiatrist request to take me on as a patient some 25 years ago. For me those 10 years were extremely hard work as he dismantled my psyche then rebuilt me. There was little friendly banter at all, as there was so much to get through at each session. I won't go into details, but his well honed techniques although abrasive and at times bewildering most surely saved my life. I guess what I am trying to say is that there are some very very good therapists out there ...but finding the right fit can be challenging.

As an end note, I want to say that you write beautifully OblivionIsAtHand. You say what you mean and mean what you say...using only the good words.

Please be kind and generous to yourself, and all the best moving forward.

[jerryjack]

Originally Posted by OblivionIsAtHand

As I got deeper into the sessions I was basically informed that therapists aren't allowed to console or even express much empathy outwardly. .

Wow......That's not true. At least not generally. There's all kind of therapy and all kinds of therapists.

My therapist practices humanistic therapy and empathy is the biggest part of the client/therapist relationship. Btw, I won't see a therapist who doesn't practice humanistic therapy, aka as client or person centered therapy.

[seesaw]

Hi Oblivion,

Wanted to answer your question about TMS. I found it helpful, I think. I know others who have also done it who found it helpful. You have to be considered treatment resistant to get insurance to approve it. You go every day for about 6 weeks. It's about 45 minutes a day. You can drive yourself home afterwards. They use a magnet to stimulate certain areas of your brain. It doesn't hurt. Feels a little like a woodpecker on your head.

Seesaw

[OblivionIsAtHand]

This part all sounds like growth; you are not feeling as dependent. Maybe real change only happens within and a therapist can encourage it but then it has to become intrinsic. I think, even with a good therapist, we can get to the point that they have shown us all they can or have helped us through a rough spot then it is time to move on or take a break.

I dunno. Certainly doesn't appear like growth right at this moment. I was feeling fine, but now I'm really feeling the need for some kind of outlet, and I have no idea how much my therapy will help. It helps sometimes. But more to the point, my therapist is on vacation.

I'm feeling really bad now. Unfortunately these forums don't help quite enough, because I'm skeptical toward some of the advice.

Right now I have...this tremendous feeling of being overwhelmed. My thoughts feel disorganized, and I can't gather my thoughts like I'm normally able to. Usually I at least have some internal locus of control. But now I'm questioning all the knowledge that I previously had, and the feeling of not knowing is brutal.

And I have all this deep, deep contempt for people. I connect with hardly anybody these days; people almost just feel like things - I barely connect with them. I almost can't even convey in words how tremendously disdainful I feel toward many others. Because of my worldview it requires much cynicism. But something still feels off about it. But, there's no growth in this respect, I assure you.

Wanted to answer your question about TMS. I found it helpful, I think.

Thanks for answering. I mean, is it significantly more helpful than the meds you tried in the past? Are you feeling much, much happier, or only a little?

As an end note, I want to say that you write beautifully OblivionIsAtHand. You say what you mean and mean what you say...using only the good words.

That is a very high compliment. Thank you very much for that. I'm glad someone can appreciate it.

Wow......That's not true. At least not generally. There's all kind of therapy and all kinds of therapists.

My therapist practices humanistic therapy and empathy is the biggest part of the client/therapist relationship. Btw, I won't see a therapist who doesn't practice humanistic therapy, aka as client or person centered therapy.

It's very plausible I could have been fed some bad information then. Maybe she meant specifically within her type of therapy, I have no idea. Like I say, it's a bit confusing. She's not an unfriendly person. But also not quite the type of person I'd hoped for. At first it felt this way.

Humanistic therapy sounds more like what I'm looking for. I will have to look into this. One would think by its very nature all therapy should be humanistic.

[OblivionIsAtHand]

I was just given the go-ahead from my therapist to be more of a sociopath. Or at least, like a sociopath I should say.

[jerryjack]

Originally Posted by OblivionIsAtHand

I was just given the go-ahead from my therapist to be more of a sociopath. Or at least, like a sociopath I should say.

???....What?...Just my opinion, but I would do some research, maybe get a second opinion. Just doesn't sound right.

[OblivionIsAtHand]

Originally Posted by jerryjack

???....What?...Just my opinion, but I would do some research, maybe get a second opinion. Just doesn't sound right.

Do research on what exactly? And an opinion from who?

I had to.cut her loose. She is too amoral.

[jerryjack]

Originally Posted by OblivionIsAtHand

Do research on what exactly? And an opinion from who?

I had to.cut her loose.

Oblivion, I can't imagine a tdoc telling you something like that to be honest. A little off the wall to me. And I certainly can't imagine my tdoc, or any of my tdocs or pdocs in the past telling me something like that. Not very professional at all to put it mildly.

Did you ask her what she meant by that when she brought it up? You had every right to do so.

Maybe you need an opinion from another tdoc/therapist, maybe the type I've already mentioned to you. Find one who will be a good fit for you.

I'm new here, and I don't know how the board feels about posting links on the board, but I can send you a message that would help you find the type of tdoc I told you about in your area....if you would like.

[OblivionIsAtHand]

I'm new here, and I don't know how the board feels about posting links on the board, but I can send you a message that would help you find the type of tdoc I told you about in your area....if you would like.

Sure, that would be fine with me. But what are you meaning by tdoc exactly? Is there a difference between a tdoc and a therapist or are you referring to the same thing?

[jerryjack]

Originally Posted by OblivionIsAtHand

Sure, that would be fine with me. But what are you meaning by tdoc exactly? Is there a difference between a tdoc and a therapist or are you referring to the same thing?

oh, I'm sorry....yes the same thing
tdoc = therapist
pdoc =psychiatrist