[Denotsed]

The topic is just as the title says. It is clear that Experiences influence and shape perception, and I am making this thread because someone in social chat seemed to believe that this did not apply to them, which can only be said by someone that does not have interest in the brain and how it works.

We are conditioned since birth through our experiences, and this is what determines how we think and overall who we are as we age. We do not see reality, we see our version of reality which is created when the vibrational and pressure signals of our surroundings (reality) are picked up by our senses and interpreted by the brain (our reality). I think of this as our perception filter.

Does anyone think differently? I am interested in feedback (criticism as well).

I dunno...that concept in a nutshell seems ok with me.

I agree with that to a degree. I also believe that some people have an inborn ability to overcome that... some more than others. Also the brain continues to develop in most people in varying degrees. And some achieve a level of enlightenment through experience.

[Denotsed]

Originally Posted by George H.

I agree with that to a degree. I also believe that some people have an inborn ability to overcome that... some more than others. Also the brain continues to develop in most people in varying degrees. And some achieve a level of enlightenment through experience.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Some people overcome the influence of experience via experience? The only way I see anyone that could be unaffected by experiences is if they had no long term memory, or their brain wasn't plastic at all.

The brain is always changing, The environment and experiences do that to the brain. We didn't survive this long as a race by ignoring and not being influenced by experiences.

Let me try to explain it more clearly. What you call the perception filter is quite often skewed. Usually it's environmental (our parents and other early influences) although sometimes there are biological or genetic factors.
I thing it's possible to reprogram or repair the skewed perception filter.

Originally Posted by Denotsed

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Some people overcome the influence of experience via experience? The only way I see anyone that could be unaffected by experiences is if they had no long term memory, or their brain wasn't plastic at all.

The brain is always changing, The environment and experiences do that to the brain. We didn't survive this long as a race by ignoring and not being influenced by experiences.

[Anika.]

We have the ability to change our perception. It is ever changing, and we can choose to veiw the world and our experiences how we want to. I think every human has this ability. It's right up there with the ability to think. Some might come by it easier or quicker than others, but I don't think that's a born gift or anything. Something that we can develop further or not by choice, and perhaps what we stumble upon or search for.

Overcoming experience via experience isn't always needed, sometimes just plain old thinking can overcome experience and perceptions.

[Denotsed]

You can't 'overcome' experiences, life is all about experiences. Consciously observing events introduced new information to the brain, this information can strengthen or weaken current behaviours and core beliefs or create new ones (Experience). Always changing, you can't be above experiences.

Everyone has a skewed perception, no one sees reality exactly as it is, we see it as we are.

Dog bites you when your a baby? You will fear dogs for the rest of your life unless you have positive experiences with dogs to change that core belief that dogs are bad and are to be avoided.

Grow up in a Catholic family? your going to believe in the god they portray and this will greatly differ from how you see the world as opposed to someone that grew up in an Atheist home.

Apparently it's hard for people to accept that everyone doesn't perceive the same world. It's the same world, but everyone’s brain interprets it differently, because everyone’s brain IS different.

[Maven]

While I do agree with you to a point, Denotsed, I disagree also. Experiences are a mix of chosen and unchosen things that happen to you, because of you or around you. People can share the same experience and react completely different.

You talk about if a dog bites you when you're young, then you'll fear dogs, unless you have positive experiences to override that programming. Not necessarily; some people do get harmed by animals or people but don't develop a phobia.

And growing up in a Catholic family most certainly does not mean you will be Catholic, too. (And it's "You're going to believe..." not "your.") I know of many people who grew up with one set of beliefs and followed a different set. I've known atheists who said they never bought into their parents' beliefs. I was raised somewhat Christian (not attending church regularly, but we considered ourselves Christians), but I'm agnostic, and have been since my early 20's. Now that has to do with experiences.

I know some people will disagree with me, but the way I see it, you don't choose your beliefs. Something convinces you that something is at least a possibility if not a fact. People who believe in God have experiences they think prove God, or they want to believe in Heaven and a loving God so much, that they accept evidence that may or may not be strong. We want to believe, so we believe. Madalyn Murray O'Hare was a famous atheist, but her son, William grew up to be extremely Christian.

[Chopin99]

I believe we are shaped by our experiences over time and that those experiences cause perception to be fluid. I also believe that if we decide to change our perceptions that stem from our environmental experiences, we can work to do so. I would call what you describe as skewed perceptions either filters or lenses through which we see the world; albeit everyone's filters are different based on experience and choice.

I'll use religion as an example because you did. In my case, I was raised in a non-churchgoing home with traditional values, but all 13 years of my schooling was in a fundamentalist Christian sect. I am still affected by my experiences at that parochial school; however, I am working to change those automatic perceptions in therapy. I have had success with this.

Now think of someone who has autism; they view the world through a biologically programmed filter on top of the filters or lenses of experience. It is difficult to overcome a biological filter. People have much less choice over that.

[Fresia]

I agree in that experiences help shape us but there is also a matter of choice as Anika mentions above; choosing our perception can shape experiences. If we choose to change our perception and to choose a different perspective (immaterial of any experience), we then can shape experiences to help that choice, and thereby help shape experience or use experiences to reinforce our perceptions. Sometimes we have to first choose to change our perception to influence our experience, even if it is contrary to our initial experiences or even perceptions. Perception and experience influence each other on equal ground depending on how open and willing we are to change.

[Anika.]

Relying only on experience for perception seems limiting and a bit black and white to me I guess. You might experience one thing in a certain way, and later change your perception, then upon looking back at that experience percieve it in a new way. Perception is more than just experience.

I grew up extremly christian, I am an atheist.

I fully understand that peoples perceptions of the world differ, I understand science, I understand the middle world which we walk in. I don't have a hard time accepting it.

[Anika.]

Originally Posted by Denotsed

You can't 'overcome' experiences, life is all about experiences. Consciously observing events ( I don't think there needs to be an "event" for this to happen ---> introduced new information to the brain, this information can strengthen or weaken current behaviours and core beliefs or create new ones (Experience). Always changing, you can't be above experiences. <--- your perception, not mine tho. I didn't say above them either. I think you can shape your experiences, just as you can shape your perception. I do believe we have a lot of choice in the matter, more than we are taught.

Dog bites you when your a baby? You will fear dogs for the rest of your life unless you have positive experiences with dogs to change that core belief that dogs are bad and are to be avoided.

Grow up in a Catholic family? your going to believe in the god they portray and this will greatly differ from how you see the world as opposed to someone that grew up in an Atheist home.

Do the two examples above contradict the statement below?

Apparently it's hard for people to accept that everyone doesn't perceive the same world. It's the same world, but everyone’s brain interprets it differently, because everyone’s brain IS different.

Just because a dog bit you, or you grew up in a religious home does not predict the outcome, and an event ( experience ) is not needed to get from point a to point b. I have been in both situations, I didn't have positive doggy experiences to overcome the fear of dogs you say I will have for the rest of my life, I did not develop a fear of dogs. I have been bit more than once, more than twice.. I do have a phobia of birds, with no experience, I could get past that if I wanted to I am sure. I am not a christian even though I was more than heavily raised in it. I could just have easily choose to go on believing, I had no reason not to, no experience to say stop.

The ability to choose, or not to choose, awareness of self, awareness of our thoughts and the ability to observe our thoughts ( can lend to changing core beliefs ) is very much a part of consciousness. It is not just external factors effecting the internal process. Yes experience has an effect, but you do with with the experience what you choose. It's not so black and white.

I understand you don't agree, and that's totally fine. I am just expanding on what I said since you asked if anyone thought differently and asked for feedback, and I am trying to understand what you are saying. I think it has more to do with everyone's consciousness being different and unique to some degree than the actual physical brain in this case, is that what you meant?

Tho I am not the person you had a talk about this with in social chat, since I never chat. I do have a different opinion than you, but that does not mean I am not interested in the brain, or consciousness, which I don't think are quite the same thing. Like you I also love Physics, and I think you may be Canadian .. Like me .. I picked up on a slight spelling you used.

There is a quote from a man in your signature, he also spoke about ..thinking that you can not change at will as being a delusion. I think that could apply here.

[Denotsed]

What I say can be argued about forever, if this does not sit right with anyone then there can always be arguments against it because it is hard to prove. Sorry for my poor language skills in my explanations, I hope it is still legible.

Originally Posted by Maven

While I do agree with you to a point, Denotsed, I disagree also. Experiences are a mix of chosen and unchosen things that happen to you, because of you or around you. People can share the same experience and react completely different.

People react completely differently to new experiences because they have different past experiences! For these 'chosen' experiences you speak of, why are they chosen? Based on past experience.

Originally Posted by Maven

You talk about if a dog bites you when you're young, then you'll fear dogs, unless you have positive experiences to override that programming. Not necessarily; some people do get harmed by animals or people but don't develop a phobia.

They may not have a phobia but you think they're going to be particularly fond of that animal? If they did not develop a phobia or any negative feelings towards that animal then either.
1) The observed dog at the time of the incident can't be connected visually to other dogs (didn't know that was the animal)
2) The individual did have positive experiences with dogs after the fact (maybe with another but similar animal).
3) The experience was forgotten completely, which I find unlikely if is was emotionally stimulating.

Originally Posted by Maven

And growing up in a Catholic family most certainly does not mean you will be Catholic, too. (And it's "You're going to believe..." not "your.") I know of many people who grew up with one set of beliefs and followed a different set. I've known atheists who said they never bought into their parents' beliefs. I was raised somewhat Christian (not attending church regularly, but we considered ourselves Christians), but I'm agnostic, and have been since my early 20's. Now that has to do with experiences.

You miss the point. It is not that they will believe the same thing, the point is that it has an effect on that individual, which shapes who they are. They may become extremely religious, or extremely atheist, or anywhere in between but the experience of the type of family they grew up with still played a role in who that person is.

Originally Posted by Maven

I know some people will disagree with me, but the way I see it, you don't choose your beliefs. Something convinces you that something is at least a possibility if not a fact. People who believe in God have experiences they think prove God, or they want to believe in Heaven and a loving God so much, that they accept evidence that may or may not be strong. We want to believe, so we believe. Madalyn Murray O'Hare was a famous atheist, but her son, William grew up to be extremely Christian.

This is exactly it, we do appear to chose our religion but we do not. This applies to everything on the grand scale of things, we 'chose' things based on past experience. You may say "well I have chosen things in spite of past experiences" well then the past experiences still influenced you! Because you are doing something because of them.

Originally Posted by Chopin99

I believe we are shaped by our experiences over time and that those experiences cause perception to be fluid. I also believe that if we decide to change our perceptions that stem from our environmental experiences, we can work to do so. I would call what you describe as skewed perceptions either filters or lenses through which we see the world; albeit everyone's filters are different based on experience and choice.

I'll use religion as an example because you did. In my case, I was raised in a non-churchgoing home with traditional values, but all 13 years of my schooling was in a fundamentalist Christian sect. I am still affected by my experiences at that parochial school; however, I am working to change those automatic perceptions in therapy. I have had success with this.

Now think of someone who has autism; they view the world through a biologically programmed filter on top of the filters or lenses of experience. It is difficult to overcome a biological filter. People have much less choice over that.

Our perception is like a fluid in a container really. The fluid can be different colours, and viscosities and the container can be different sizes. There are so many variables to perception but I think they all stem from experience. You say they stem from experience and choice, but where does choice stem from? if you try a dirt cone then a chocolate ice cream cone, chances are based on the desirable stimulation you get from the experience of the chocolate over the dirt you will always chose chocolate over dirt. This is a black and white example. For things that aren't as 'good and bad' you may cycle but with higher probability of choosing the favourite. The most sensory pleasing.

You are chosing to alter your perceptions through therapy (experience) based on choice. The choice is because of experiences that you found unpleasant, you would not have made this decision if life was perfect how it was before.

Well, I have High Functioning Autism, Aspergers. Choice is the result of an accumulation of information from experiences. You can not overcome a filter, you can only change it. It only changes with experience, have you ever said that you were going to stop procrastinating and didn't? most of the time this happens. Until you actually get out there and do it, the experiences wont be built in favour of doing that thing.

Originally Posted by Fresia

I agree in that experiences help shape us but there is also a matter of choice as Anika mentions above; choosing our perception can shape experiences. If we choose to change our perception and to choose a different perspective (immaterial of any experience), we then can shape experiences to help that choice, and thereby help shape experience or use experiences to reinforce our perceptions. Sometimes we have to first choose to change our perception to influence our experience, even if it is contrary to our initial experiences or even perceptions. Perception and experience influence each other on equal ground depending on how open and willing we are to change.

Choice is the result of an accumulation of information from experiences.

[Denotsed]

Originally Posted by Anika.

Relying only on experience for perception seems limiting and a bit black and white to me I guess. You might experience one thing in a certain way, and later change your perception, then upon looking back at that experience percieve it in a new way. Perception is more than just experience.

I grew up extremly christian, I am an atheist.

I fully understand that peoples perceptions of the world differ, I understand science, I understand the middle world which we walk in. I don't have a hard time accepting it.

Originally Posted by Anika.

Just because a dog bit you, or you grew up in a religious home does not predict the outcome, and an event ( experience ) is not needed to get from point a to point b. I have been in both situations, I didn't have positive doggy experiences to overcome the fear of dogs you say I will have for the rest of my life, I did not develop a fear of dogs. I have been bit more than once, more than twice.. I do have a phobia of birds, with no experience, I could get past that if I wanted to I am sure. I am not a christian even though I was more than heavily raised in it. I could just have easily choose to go on believing, I had no reason not to, no experience to say stop.

The ability to choose, or not to choose, awareness of self, awareness of our thoughts and the ability to observe our thoughts ( can lend to changing core beliefs ) is very much a part of consciousness. It is not just external factors effecting the internal process. Yes experience has an effect, but you do with with the experience what you choose. It's not so black and white.

I understand you don't agree, and that's totally fine. I am just expanding on what I said since you asked if anyone thought differently and asked for feedback, and I am trying to understand what you are saying. I think it has more to do with everyone's consciousness being different and unique to some degree than the actual physical brain in this case, is that what you meant?

Tho I am not the person you had a talk about this with in social chat, since I never chat. I do have a different opinion than you, but that does not mean I am not interested in the brain, or consciousness, which I don't think are quite the same thing. Like you I also love Physics, and I think you may be Canadian .. Like me .. I picked up on a slight spelling you used.

There is a quote from a man in your signature, he also spoke about ..thinking that you can not change at will as being a delusion. I think that could apply here.

Sorry for the double post here.

I said this before twice but I will post it again just for sake of this particular debate. I believe choice is somewhat of an illusion. I think it is the result of the accumulation of information from past experiences which is used to prevent negative incidents (or try) from taking place again.

I see what you mean about the dogs and birds. If you really did not have a negative experience with birds somehow and you like dogs but did not have positive experiences building up to it, then my only thought towards this is the brain itself. All our brains are different and while the typical brain may respond how In this experience-reaction way, some may stray slightly. It is like autism, different wiring of the brain causes different results through even similar experiences.

By the way, I am not hell bent on being right like I may seem, and certainly not trying to be pushy, just expressing my thoughts and current belief.

But yeah, I think if someone does not act in this experience driven way then their brain may have processed that information (experience) differently because of a mistake or perhaps non-typical wiring of specific areas in the brain.

[Maven]

I'm going to keep this short and just say, I also believe brain chemistry (or body chemistry, since chemicals in the body also affect the brain) may influence or even control our "choices," much as we'd like to think we are always in control. I like to think I'm making my own choices (admittedly, based on experiences I have or haven't had), but the stuff I've read in science suggests that our judgments, influences, experiences, and choices may very well be the result of how chemicals and perhaps health in general work inside us.

[Fresia]

I agree that some choices are based on past experiences. But have to respectfully disagree about experiences being the sole decider in influencing our choices, perceptions, and behavior.

Originally Posted by Denotsed

Because you are doing something because of them. You say they stem from experience and choice, but where does choice stem from?

There is also intuition, logic, inspiration and not based on experience that can also influence our perceptions; and our perceptions influence our experiences. I suspect one could say that the logic and inspiration are based on experience. However, given an immediate problem to solve in which there is no basis in the past, there are times in which we have no frame of reference from the past and are isolated; we must rely on natural inherent mental acuity to problem solve our ways out of regardless of any experience. Also inspiration, there is some inspiration that comes from and becomes an experience, but other inspiration that is "other worldly" for lack of a better term or "divine" as another way of putting it, that cannot be explained by experience that can decide things for us, call it fate. Once happens, it could be considered an experience from that point forward. However the initial occurrence of fate's influence, I personally cannot discount, the way the world works in sometimes making decisions/choices for us.

Choice is the result of an accumulation of information from experiences.
[I] In knowing how so many things have shaped my decisions and choices in the past, there is no denying that experience can shape choices but I owe my life in one particular instance not to things that have shaped my past but to mental acuity and problem solving, inspiration, and intuition, not withstanding experience. There are some situations that we are thrown into that we have no frame of reference for experience from our pasts. It was not past experience that saved me from an attacker and rapist; it was quick thinking to use an object you never would have thought of to injure him within inches of his life, intuition, will to live, and the inspiration that he was not going to the better of me that I fought him; I had no frame of reference for this experience as it had nothing to do with past experiences. My reactions, inspiration, and perception of wanting to live is what influenced my survival to help me make choices to do so, in turn affecting my experience. It was not the influence or accummulation of past experience that that saved me, but inherent will to live perception causing me to choose to fight, and being provided with intuitive and problem solving skills to affect the outcome of my experience. .