School uniforms...or NO!

I must admit, being an artist, that I've always dressed to make a statement. I love colors, textures, etc. I never follow fashion trends, which are really just a big money-making scheme..ya know! But kids do buy into it, and, now having been with middle schoolers for 20 years, I think the benefits of uniforms far outweigh the negatives (if there are any).
It will probably never succeed in our county unless it is started from Kindergarten onward. I wish they would. In the meantime, I can't wait to receive the school uniform clothing I've ordered. It will be so freeing not to have to worry about what to wear. Other teachers have expressed interest, but the majority of teachers were not in favor of it, as suggested that we teachers try it first. Not even that succeeded.
Patty

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I notice that when speaking about allowing kids to dress the way that they want, most of you have focused on promiscuous or offensive styles. What about creative dressing that is appropriate? I would say dress codes are a good idea, but let the kids have fun with their physical expression.

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Not saying that "all" students wear offensive styles, but by what I've seen what my son's girlfriends wear, seems they need more, much more fabric on those tiny lil skirts and tops they sport about in.

I think it is those who do wear the (promiscuous or offensive styles) are the reason why schools would even consider uniforms. Seems their "creativity" is way above what might be considered appropriate. I am all for being "creative", but give me a break. I think girls that show up in class with their "breasts" half hanging out and/or their skirt lengths that land right below their "bums" should be sent home to change. And the guys who wear those huge, baggy jeans that look like they are advertising their brand of underware, should also be sent home.

Times have changed a lot since I went to school. We were not even aloud to wear jeans and t-shirts to school. We had a "dress code" to abide by and if anyone wore anything that wasn't within the guidelines of the "dress code", students were sent home..

oo geesh, I think some schools even have "smoking lounges" for students. Lordy.. Lordy.. If anyone was caught even having cigarettes in their purse or pockets, when I was a student, they be would expelled from school for a week..

Also "in my day" we were taught to "respect" our teachers. Not like today as the "students' rule. off topic here so will stop..

Every word within this post is stated with all due respect.

I do see the value in having a uniform, I do see the financial benefits to the parents or whomever is purchasing the "extremely faddish trendy clothing that teens just have got to have", and I do see where many of you are coming from. Please remember, however, that in the vast majority of schools, children and teens ARE NOT simply running around wearing say, a thong and lace undergarments. The few that people that choose to expose themselves like that are the exception After countless threads of "teen-bashing", I just feel like i have to interject. We're not all that bad. I think there might be some sort of geographic trend with such inappropriate clothing-my school, and most schools in my district, have no such issues with kids running around with next-to no clothing on. I believe that there is an attainable middle ground, allowing both the student to have some say in their choice of attire, while remaining "modest". But after all, what really defines "modest"? Others utopian desires of clean, lifeless, and sterile clothing? There is middle ground. Finding it is just a matter of BOTH sides willing to make some compromises, and of course, a half-way decent GPS system. =]

In regards to my above post, I think i get overly defensive sometimes lol. sorry=[, had a long day.

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AAAAA said:

Expressing yourself falls into the social catagory, not school or work. Especially not work, as an employee you are representing the company you work for.

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Perhaps it is different growing up and working (and now living and working) in two major cities-- New York and Philadelphia.. I don't know... I have never heard of the things you are speaking about in terms of dress code at work.

I am a therapist, and I go to work everyday expressing myself right down to how I wear my eye makeup. I stick to the dress code, which is fairly loose (no jeans except on Fridays, obviously no promiscuous/offensive clothing).

I have one tattoo (a vine of flowers going around my wrist) and I have NEVER covered it for an interview. It has never been a problem. I used to have my nose pierced, and that was not a problem either. In fact, my former supervisor said that my self-expression in terms of dress could foster conversation amongst clients about their own ways of expressing themselves-- and it did.

Before I got into doing therapy, I taught private music lessons to kids at a music store. The teachers were allowed to wear whatever we wanted.

You wrote, "in the working world SOMEONE ELSE will tell you how to dress and wear your hair."

Aside from what I see an an obvious and necessary dress code to keep from people taking things to far (in terms of sloppiness, offensiveness, whatever), NO ONE will EVER tell me what to wear or how to wear my hair.

Getting dressed is something you have to do everyday. I see it as a form of art. I love being the one at work known for having the hot pink wedges, the gold flats, or the funky accessories.

Expressing yourself fall into EVERY category, in my opinion. It is ONE PART of you, and it is not to say that because someone dresses a certain way, that is a representation of the whole person. Yes, I'm known at work and school for being the only nut would carry a big purple purse and actually have the boots to match, lol... but I'm also known as being creative, a good student, and a good therapist.

People have always said that the way I dress matches my personality and that there are certain things I can "pull off" that other people can't. I like that. If anyone ever told me how to dress (being that I dress expressively, yet always appropriate for the situation), or how to wear my hair, I would literally laugh in their face. Luckily, I have never encountered that before. I would sooner quit a job before wearing a uniform. That is how strong my views on physical self expression are.

hi..
yes we sholud place a rule of school uniforms.its very imp,bacaz uniform shows uniqueness between all students.it wll avoid the higher &lower class difference.
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WilliamStallings

South Carolina Drug Treatment

hi..
yes we have to provide school uniforms rule.becase it wll show the uniqueness between students&avoid diff between students.
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WilliamStallings

South Carolina Drug Treatment

I forgot to say in my post above that uniforms are a great idea. Got side tracked and my mind wondered off, I guess to think.. lol

Something else I just remembered LOL, at my daughters sch they begun issueing coloured badges (pins) to show what yr the pupils were in. They soon stopped this when the badges were being bought in the playground as the kids started a craze in seeing who could collect all the colours LOL!! poor little first yrs were being "mugged" for their badges LOL!,

I think also the uniforms were bought in so kids could be identified if there was trouble locally around the sch and on public transport at home time.

Well reading trough all the replies, there are some good points in favour of uniforms and some good against.

I do agree that schools should be able to ban inapropiate dressing but thats about it. Personally I haven't seen much kids dress like that and I've been to quite a few schools..

And then there is the thing that some kids won't be able to afford expensive clothes. True. However with or without everyone wearing the same clothes, bullying will not stop or become less. So this, seeming to be the biggest reason why kids should wear uniforms, to me is not a good reason to wear uniforms.

I guess it is also depends on what u are used to. In some areas almost all schools have uniforms and you wont even think about it. Where I live not one school has uniforms. So to about everyone in The Netherlands it would be a big deal! Thinking protestwalks, collecting signatures against it etc. Either way I don't think uniforms solve the problem.

Blue

Pink please do not take this as a personal attack, perhaps it’s a generation difference. You’re personal appearance DOES make a difference to clients and if you’re working with children, their parents. I certainly would not seek the serves of a doctor, dentist, lawyer, or therapist with tattoos, piercings, or ones with odd clothing, hair color or make-up. I expect a professional to have the appearance of a professional.

My second therapist wore make-up like a clown and dressed entirely too young for her age. I was so distracted by her appearance that the sessions were useless. As she was talking I was thinking “does she really look in the mirror every morning and do this on purpose? Does she buy her eye shadow first or her blouses?” That was 25 years ago when I was a teen and into makeup myself. Thinking about it now, since she worked mainly with sexually abused young women, she was probably trying to appear as a peer and approachable. But for me, seeing her in parachute pants and valley girl skirts with tights and leg warmers was a joke.

I’m glad that you found a niche that allows you to do something you love, dressing the way you want.

Pink...you sound like my daughter. When i told her we were trying to get the teachers to wear uniforms (and she's a teacher of 5th graders) she didn't like the idea for herself. She has tattoos, and used to have a nose ring till she started teaching, and they wouldn't let her wear it in school, or maybe she just gave it up because of appearance expectations. I never asked her why she did that, but I liked it. I, myself, would like to have my nose pierced, but it would look ridiculous on me, and my school admins wouldn't like it either.

My reasons for liking uniforms are mainly to level the playing and educational field among students, where at my school many are from impoverished homes. I've never confronted a student for having cleavage hanging out or for pants falling off, though we do see that a lot. We do have teachers who police this like hawks at our school, and it becomes nit-picking after a while. Uniforms would alleviate this waste of energy and preoccupation among students and teachers. But that is not why I like the idea of uniforms so much. I think "dressing for education" lends an air of importance to attending school, and even pride, once the students and faculty get on board!

Patty

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AAAAA said:
I certainly would not seek the serves of a doctor, dentist, lawyer, or therapist with tattoos, piercings, or ones with odd clothing, hair color or make-up. I expect a professional to have the appearance of a professional.

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Hey AAAAA,

I'm just curious, and I realize that you begin to elaborate upon this, but can you please explain to us why you would not see a professional that has, say, a tattoo? For instance, say a renowned surgeon has a tattoo, a harmless piece of art and expression on his own skin, you would not see him because of this? I just cant quite grasp as to why individuals are stereotyped and discriminated against for their own personal pieces of art/expression. Looking forward to hearing from you, Take care.

Mel

yes i agree. that there sense of dress is not the same as yours does not mean they are less professional or good in their job... if it does not work for you, you seek someone else that is your right. it is their right to dress as they want, in my opinion.

and again having schooluniforms doesnt stop bullying or even lessen it. imho

to me it sounds smallminded to judge someone by the way they look.

I'm glad my son doesn't have to wear a uniform. Mainly because I had experience with both when I was growing up. I *never* had ostracism for how I dressed, except when I was in uniform. The rules for being cool were very narrow in a uniform. The pleats had to be crisp. The skirt had to be just the right number of inches above the knee. It was way harder for me to conform with the rules when I was in a uniform.

I was one of those kids who could never quite manage to keep their shirt tucked in all the way around, whose knee high white socks never managed to stay at the proper uniform height but instead always slid down into my uniformed brown loafers, whose mother never did hem my skirts - I'm not sure whether that's because she believed in modesty or it just never occurred to her. This was no major problem in the nonuniform world, where I could choose clothing that fit my unique needs. The world is full of children's clothing that didn't need to be tucked.

I was also the type of kid who, confronted with the knowledge that I could fit in if I just got my mom to hem my skirt and ironed it properly, was absolutely determined *never* to hem my skirt. Because if tucking properly meant being liked, and not tucking properly meant being tormented, why would I want to be liked by people who would torment me because my mother never hemmed my skirts and I didn't roll them?

So I spent four years in uniforms being miserable because I wouldn't or couldn't conform to the narrow norms. And nine years in street clothes being relatively well accepted by people dressed all sorts of ways. That has probably influenced my views on the topic.

Perhaps the two schools where I experienced uniform ostracism were unusually rigid in their views of what made for cool uniform wear and what made for dreadfully uncool uniform wear. In which case, my experience would not be generalizable.

Plus.... And this is very important to me.... I would hate to be deprived of a clothing that felt extra nice to be in, or clothing that I felt attractive in, or most importantly of all... my lucky test shirt.

Mel,

I think it’s all about comfort level. Perhaps stereotypes factor into it. My doctor should not look like my beautician. If I’m going to court, I want my lawyer to look like a professional, not have some “harmless” piece of art, pink hair, or wearing inappropriate clothing to offend the judge. I mentioned that I clerked for a judge, I was privy for the behind the scenes conversations and comments made by the Judge I worked for. Right or wrong, he made judgment calls based upon the attorney’s appearances. It was a matter of respect for the judicial process.

And as for harmless, what some view as art, others find offensive. The last place I worked there was a skinhead with a swastika and German eagle on his arm. Is he entitled to have it? Certainly, should I be subjected to it? Absolutely not! The irony of this situation, which made the change in uniforms from short sleeves to long was because of this individual, our parent company is German, and they’re sensitive about these things (as are many other people justifiably so). It was a foundry and bloody hot, but because we could not specifically ask a single individual to cover his offensive tattoos, we all had to suffer with heavy, long sleeved uniforms.

My daughter got a tattoo when she turned 18, against my strongest objections. She’s planning on being a psychologist working with disabled children. Thank God, she made the compromise of putting it on her back and it’s easily cover by a shirt when she finishes college and enters the professional world she’ll be able to dress as a professional. Does this make her a bad person? Of course not, she’s still the same wonderful person, just has some ink on her back that she can show when she desires and hide when she doesn’t.

Her tattoo artist (and the woman is amazing, although I don’t approve of tattoos, this woman is truly an artist) is married to a doctor. I was stunned when the man came in the room, not a bit of ink on him, or so I thought. He came in to get a tat touched up and under his T-shirt, he was COVERED, front to back.

I guess what it boils down to is I don’t care if you have them, but in most professional situations I don’t want to see them. If I’m paying you a great deal of money for you to be a professional, I don’t want to see what you decided was “cool” in college to put on your arm. I do have an exception to this rule, certain military tattoos. If you’ve served your country, you’ve earned the right to display it proudly in any situation.

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AAAAA said:
Pink please do not take this as a personal attack, perhaps it’s a generation difference. You’re personal appearance DOES make a difference to clients and if you’re working with children, their parents. I certainly would not seek the serves of a doctor, dentist, lawyer, or therapist with tattoos, piercings, or ones with odd clothing, hair color or make-up. I expect a professional to have the appearance of a professional.

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LOL, I am not a Hell's Angel. I have one tattoo of flowers and I used to have a tiny stud in my nose. My clothing is not odd. I am complimental all the time, by colleagues, of my style of dress. I am 27 years old and I love different colors of eye makeup. I love to wear dressed with cool accesories. I love color. My hair is very dark brown. It is not a mohawk, it is not colored like a rainbow.

I never leave the house wearing sweatpants, not even on weekends. I do not even own a pair of sneakers.

It would be a cold day in hell before I walked out of the house wearing khakis.

Professionalism does not have to equal boring.

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AAAAA said:
I do have an exception to this rule, certain military tattoos. If you’ve served your country, you’ve earned the right to display it proudly in any situation.

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And if you are a human being, you have the "right" to display whatever form of self-expression makes you proud.

I don't care if you are cop, soldier, doctor, psychologist, cashier, or janitor. NO ONE is better than anyone else because of their profession, and EVERYONE is entitled to their own forms of expression, regardless of what they do.

The irony of this whole discussion is that people are in favor of school uniforms to promote some sort of unity, and lessen bullying because some people have less than others-- but at the same time, I am reading very discriminating comments.

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pinksoil said:
The irony of this whole discussion is that people are in favor of school uniforms to promote some sort of unity, and lessen bullying because some people have less than others-- but at the same time, I am reading very discriminating comments.

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exactly...

Well I just bought a new pinnifore off ebay for my daughter aged 8-9 problem is she is 7 and is insisting on wearing it lol its far too long and she looks like somone out of St Trininans lmao .....

I just want to say I am enjoying the coments made from both sides of this issue. Everyone is stating their respective cases very logically, great discussion!

The best part is that this is all being carried on with passion but respect for other's point of view, its a shame our politicians cannot conduct debates in this same manner!

Good Posting Everyone!!!

TJ

Sorry that we hijacked the thread for a minute. I would like to add that my son plays basketball. On game day they are required to wear shirts, ties and slacks. I thought that he would balk at this, but he really enjoys doing so, enjoys the unity that says “I’m part of this team.”

He is in a relatively rare position, he is a mirror image identical twin. When they were young we did not dress them alike, when they were old enough to make their own clothing choices they choose to dress alike. When he entered Jr. High he started to let his hair grow. This way from a distance anyone could tell him apart from his twin, no one had to ask “which one are you?” I would very much like him to cut his hair, but I do understand that he feels the need to separate himself from his brother.

With this in mind, I asked him if he would mind school uniforms. I fully expected him to say that it would be the worst thing ever but he surprised me, after thinking about it for a bit, he declared he wouldn’t mind it a bit. All of my boys are into the Japanese culture and the school uniform plays a big role in the life of a Japanese student.