School uniforms...or NO!

Hey, I just returned to teaching for the year....lots of long teacher meetings, and listening to motivational speakers, etc. We are a rural school, where there is lots of low-income. About one third of our students receive free lunches, etc. I think school uniforms would level the playing field for many of the students. I like the idea, and I like the idea for teachers as well. But, despite my own, and the principal's liking the idea, it was poo-poohed!~
We have so many female students who dress promiscuously, with cleavage hanging out, etc. Shorts too short, etc. The county does have a "dress code," but it's hard to enforce.
It was mentioned that faculty might first start wearing consistent uniforms, which was voted down.
Anyway, I really like the idea. Free of the tyranny of fashion! I also think it would provide a more professional setting for education.
But I doubt we will ever get there in our country setting. My twin grandsons attend public school in KY where they DO wear uniforms from Kindergarten onward.
Despite the NAY vote, I've ordered myself some school uniform clothing. It will be so freeing, and a fellow teacher is going to embroider the school name on my shirts for me. Maybe others will join in.
What are your thoughts on this?
Patty

our schools all have school uniform
start with if several schools in one area it helps to set them aside
gone are the shirts and ties and jumpers
now its more casual sweat shirts with school motif and polo shirts black trousers and skirts

the local infants school wear mine went and friends children go the teachers and some of the helpers wear a version of the school polo shirt

I have always thought that this was a good idea. I support diversity but there are also needs to be a sense of commonality and mission. Also "fashion" is a distraction and I think kids could use some help with proper dess sense.

Back in my day kids dressed like they had some sense, but now in today's "parents as buddies" world these kids look awful.

Boys: I really have no needor want to see what kind of underwear you have on, PULL THOSE %#@&#! PANTS UP ALREADY. and please wear clothing that was meant for your size not 2 sizes up. Leave the jewlry and piercings at home.

Girls: Some footage I see from schools, looks too much like the street corner in the WRONG part of town. And please, darlings, leave the "hip huggers" at the store unless you are built like Paris Hilton. I cannot stand over weight teenage girls running around in these things, I see them at the mall all the time, jelly rolls hanging over their pants ugggggh, it makes them shaped like barrels. Look Anna Nicole Smith spent much of her career with a bit more on her bones than most models, but at least she had the God given sense to wear cloths that showed those curves off in a postive way, so yes you can be a bit meaty and attractive, just choose the clothes carefully.

Sorry off topic, anyway I fully agree with you Patty, keep trying !

TJ

I think and have always thought school unform is a good idea.

My son is going into sixth form and has to wear a smart suit and a tie that's slightly different from the school design .....

there is a colour code, blazers, white shirts and grey or black trousersare our schools code in senior, juniors wear blue sweatshirts with white polos underneath, they all look so smart, and there are no trainers(sneakers) allowed so there is no' x has these and y has these etc'

I'm with you patti ... good luck hon ,.,.,, Jinny xx

I'm glad to get the feedback on this. Our motivational speaker today was a female from Atlanta. She was wearing her "uniform," a crisp blazer and shirt with matching pants. Also in the film she showed of their expemplary school...The Ron Clark Academy, all the lower income students were wearing their uniforms.
I forgot to add that along with the promiscuous clothing the females wear, we DO have the baggy pants and t-shirts with inappropriate and often disrespectful slogans. There are also always a few hanger-on Goths who wear the black stuff along with all the piercings.
Hey, I've always been liberal, but I do think that leveling the playing field in the mode of dress would be more conducive to education.
Patty

They tried that at my son's school and it was voted down as well. He goes to a private school, so it isn't as bad. I couldn't afford the uniform pants/shirts anyway, but when I was in school we had uniforms.

Mary Alice

I totally agree with uniforms in schools. it takes away the pressure of not so wealthy to fit in. I had 4 kids in school one time. the older kids wanted all the expensive stuff so they could fit in. it was so hard to tell them we could not afford the expensive stuff.

If I were a principle and the school had a dress code I would enforce it! they walk in the front door with too short shorts, lowcut tops or anything inappropriate they would be sent home. that is the problem with our youth today. no one stands up to them!

ok I will get off my highhorse now. whew that felt good!

When my daughters were in school none of the area school districts had uniforms, except a few private schools.

I always wanted them to level things out financially and to stop the distractions of "style" (or so they thought!) How can the boys pay attention to the teachers when the girls have their "all" in the shop windows to admire! If there is a fire the boys with their pants around their knees will burn up as they can't possibly run that way!

I was in school and graduated in the US in 1971. Ours was the last grade NOT allowed to wear trousers or jeans. I got sent home to re-dress when I wore a mini-skirt length culotte that actually "covered" things better than the matching skirt that went with the outfit. So rules can be oddly irregular. But there was NO way back then that the girls were allowed to dress like street walkers and the boys like clowns!

OK, now everyone knows I'm an old fogy, but there it is. Without standards and discipline school is just anarchy! Who can learn in a state of anarchy??? OK, off Soap Box Now!!!

Leslie

I agree with you, Multipixie! I actually graduated from high school in 1968! (so I'm an even older fogey!, LOL) I went to a small private college, where we had to attend chapel several times a week, and dress codes were strict...at least when I began there. But with all the turmoil of the late '60's/early '70's, all that fell by the wayside by the time I graduated. Revolution! ....But I digress!
I really like the idea of uniforms...the idea of "dressing" for education.
I talked to my daughter who is a teacher in KY this evening and told her I had ordered myself some school uniform clothing. She said, "That doesn't sound like 'you', Mom!" She is used to me in my casual artist clothing, and I do like my artsy old hippie attire. But i'm also a teacher, and as I've discussed my decision to do this with other teachers, they express interest as well. One very vocal teacher poo-poohed the idea of us teachers starting out first with uniforms before introducing them to the students.
I have to add here also, that i think it is best to introduce school uniforms in elementary school and then onward. My twin grandsons began with them in Kindergarten, and they are proud of their school clothing. Trying to introduce it in a rural area later on, like in my middle school, will probably never succeed, though it sure would be a good thing!
Patty

I personally cannot stand looking at people with their pants on half-***, that's the stupidest "look" out there, I thought this was long gone, but I see it everyday. As far as how these young girls dress these days, they're wanting to attract attention, and they think that it looks good. I never was like that in my school days, even now i'm still not. I'd rather wear things that fit "nice & comfortable" and look good, then walk around with certain things hanging out. Instead of leaving it up to the teachers, it needs to start in the home first. I have young girls at work that wear such tight tshirts and jeans and with their guts hanging out like it's nothing. They have no clue. I feel like saying, "that is not flattering on you", it's hideous. They're somewhat on the plus size and think they can fit into a size small shirt, please, lets face reality, you can't fit into that. If that's the only way they want attention from guys, then they have more serious problems. Just my take on all of this.

Deborah

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seeker1950 said:

There are also always a few hanger-on Goths who wear the black stuff along with all the piercings.

Patty

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That was me in high school (not anymore though). I think that school uniforms are a horrible idea. I do think that dress codes should be enforced because of offensive slogans, promiscuous clothes, etc. However, the idea of not letting individuals express themselves in a physical manner (especially at an age when they are first exploring their identity) is completely unfair and rather ridiculous.

When I was in high school, I began to explore my identity through art, music, writing, and dress. I don't understand the problem with students who "wear the black stuff along with all the piercings." So what? In my opinion, high school is a joke anyway. I absolutely hated it and it wasn't connected to what my interests were at the time. Why do I think it was a joke? Because I practically failed out (I think they let me graduate just to get rid of me) and now I am a therapist, and in doctoral school... so what I did (or wore) in high school didn't really affect the outcome of my future. If my school had uniforms, it wouldn't have made a different on my outlook or performance in high school.

I really think it is disgusting to discourage kids from expressing themselves in their dress, makeup, piercings, whatever. People can express themselves without being offensive, so I do believe some rules should be in place. Perhaps schools should spend more time on making it a better, more interesting place for the students-- and placing emphasis on education, rather than clothing. The education itself can stand alone in its importance without being connected to clothing.

Clothing, or the lack of money to afford current fashions by poorer students, is a distractor from education, and I'm speaking as a veteran of teaching for many years. School uniforms equalize the playing and learning field for many students, and eliminate the constant distractions of inappropriate attire which is pushed to the limits by many students.
As for expressing one's identity, Pink...that should be done in one's educational accomplishments in the school setting, not in one's mode of dress.
Patty

How about some more rules about what is appropiate rather then school uniforms.

In the netherlands there is not one school that has school uniforms. If kids want to bully you they will find a reason, wether its clothes or something else. So I don't think school uniforms will solve anything.

And... if the kids want to dress in clothes you think are hideous... well what does it matter, after all its not you that has to wear these clothes.

Its up to the parents to approve their outfits or not and as long as its not offensive what does it matter...

Just my opinion though.

Blue

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seeker1950 said:
As for expressing one's identity, Pink...that should be done in one's educational accomplishments in the school setting, not in one's mode of dress.
Patty

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no offense but i think its everyone's own choice to decide how they express themselves... and to many teenagers clothes are an important part of this just like music, sports,etc.
please dont take this the wrong way but that statement annoyed me a bit...

Blue

Wow, This is more difficult then I thought when I first read this thread. As a mother of 3 children, I think for safety and financial reasons the sch uniform has suited my life style better. From the kids being free to express themselfs? Well even with the uniform the kids have made how they wear it "their own", they wear the ties at a certain level and other little "sneaky" ways they've adjusted how the uniform is supposed to have been worn. I think in this day and age with so much violence I feel safer for them at sch to be wearing uniform. When they are at home after sch then they return to how they want to dress. Before the schs in London brough compulsary uniform wearing in, kids were being threatened at knifepoint for trendy trainers. I know when they have charity days at sch where they take a £1 ($1) in and can wear their own clothers there have been snide remarks made to one of my daughters because she doesn't follow the crowd and that was hard for her to deal with, but she did. I know we can't protect our kids from life, I think with the current climate, uniforms are the safest option. I'm sure in the big scheme of things, having to wear a uniform for 8hrs of the day won't be the worse things that can happen, and hey it may even prepare them for work where some jobs require uniforms? I dont think its prevented my kids from finding out who they are because they have to wear a uniform at sch. This is only my experience of putting 3 kids through the sch system, and others may have a different experience.

Good way to relate your experiances,

Excellent post!

TJ

Well, I've studied at a public school without any form of dress code, a private school with a dress code, and another private school with a full-blown uniform. I honestly don't mind the dress code, even though it is strict, and most clothes that administrators would like us to wear are uncomfortable. There are however, MANY ways to work around the strict parameters of the code, and express ones self. Sometimes its just a matter of how creative one is =] A uniform wouldn't be absolutely devastating, as it takes away some of that difficult decision making early in morning, though sometimes its that 'decision making' that keeps us sane, and allows us to be who we are. All in all, I just want to be comfortable. Thats all. Sometimes I just want to wear a comfy pair of sneakers! Fashion this, fashion that, its all good, and can be fun, but above all is comfort (for me, anyway).

Oh, and also, PLEASEEE don't make false generalizations about people my age, we're not all that bad, and I don't see the need to talk about "the problem with our youth these days", as its really hurtful to glob us all together as trouble-making brats.

Thanks for hearing me out, and take care.
Mel

I am not saying that ALL kids are inept slackers, I see many young people that do try to dress and act appropriately in the environment they are in. I have also read a number of bright, thoughtful posts from young people here on this site. My beef is there is just not enough of them arround and that worries me.

I am not blaming this all on the kids by the way, many were raised by self-indulgent Baby Boomers, who have the attitude the world simply "owes them" for just showing up and have passed that on to their offspring.

I think that a proper dress code can go a long way to bringing about an environment of courtesy and professionalism to young people. It is NOT THE SOLE ANSWER to youth issues but it can help, especially in areas that are impoverished and kids cannot afford the latest nike this, addias that or abecrombe and fitch outfits.

I have seen sucessful outreach programs that help parents pay and maintain school uniforms. Many struggling parents are grateful for them, after all it is one less thing that they have to worry about not being able to afford.

Just remember that young people are in school for a reason, the school's primary misson is life training for the real world . Schools are not "night clubs" Kids should be treated no differently than anybody working as an adult in a professional environment. Raise the expections and standards for performance, and the majority will work harder and ultimately become more productive and effective citizens.

There are some who think I am being a little hard here and maybe I am but, folks, teens and youth of today or going to have to become more and more competative than ever in the workplace to make a good living. Or as columnist Thomas Friedman once said to his daughter. "Study hard, apply yourself, or you will find your job went to some kid in India, who did ."

Just something to think about in a bigger context.

My kids had to wear uniforms in pvt school. . .that's a given really.

But the public school in GA they went to also had uniforms. The uniform consisted of khaki of blue bottoms (pants, shorts, or a skort) and on Friday's they could wear a jean bottom that was blue. Their tops were polo shirts, that were either red, white, or blue. (patriotic school in a military town)

here's the thing. . .it actually cost us LESS money for the uniforms. Walmart sells the polo shirts for under $6.00 (compared to the avg shirt that is $9.) and the shorts for under $10.

My kids bucked it at first too, but eventually settled in b/c they didn't have to hassle with school clothes every day. I loved it. . .still do.

I also think that school uniforms are a good idea, for many of the reasons already stated. My belief was cemented when my son attended Bay Cliff Health Camp in Big Bay Michigan. Children arrived with only the clothes on their back, which were put up until the end of the summer when the children wore them home again.

The camp had a HUGE “closet” and the staff handed out clothes to the children based on size. They were usually sweat pant or shorts, comfortable clothes. The reasoning was that at the camp (for children with various physical and mental disabilities) EVERYONE was equal, you didn’t have one child in designer clothes and another in ratty clothes. It promoted bonding and prevented the children from judging one another based upon the name on their pocket.

A wonderful camp, look it up on the web, if you’re looking for an awesome charity, Bay Cliff is it. College students: planning on working with children? PT, OT, ST, nursing, dentistry, etc? Look it up, an excellent place to spend your summers!

But back to the topic at hand, I know that high school is a growing experience, but contrary to popular belief, you're not going to a social club, you're going to school. While the social aspect is important, the MAIN reason you're at school is to gain an education!

That should be the primary focus. Baggy pants (that I thought were out but I was wrong) that hang down to the mid thigh should not be permitted, nor should those shirts that are so tight on young girls that it leaves nothing to the imagination! Don't get me started on the "skirts" that are so short you don't even have to move them to go to the bathroom!

So why not just wear uniforms for the office, too? People forget to mention that the same %#@&#! goes on in the workplace, too.

Uniforms don't solve the problem of non-acceptance in children-- or anybody. Uniforms don't take away the other things that kids get bullied for-- weight, haircut, height, choice of friends, disability, intelligence, etc, etc, etc.

Instead of restricting kids, why not allow them to express themselves and be comfortable for it? Putting everyone in the same outfit does not model the real world.

I notice that when speaking about allowing kids to dress the way that they want, most of you have focused on promiscuous or offensive styles. What about creative dressing that is appropriate? I would say dress codes are a good idea, but let the kids have fun with their physical expression.

I think school uniform can help a little with respect to blurring the boundaries of cliques and leveling the income differential. Can't level the playing field entirely, of course, but can go some way towards blurring it.

I do understand that dress is a way to express yourself... But that tends to be when you have sufficient funds to purchase that which you like to wear. For kids who aren't in the position... Wearing school uniform prevents your being ridiculed for not wearing the 'right' brand of jeans. Adults tend not to have their identity based around their dress in the same way that kids do when they are identifying strongly with 'emo' or 'hip hop' or whatever. People find ways to express themselves through gesture, verbal expression, art etc. I didn't like wearing uniform, don't get me wrong, but in hindsight I think it was a pretty good thing...

My son is attending a brand new elementary school this year, entering the 4th grade. The new board and some parents made a decision for uniforms. I am totally against them, can't stay why exactly. Maybe as others said the freedom of expression is important no matter the childs age.

I had called the school to see if I could transfer him to another that didn't require uniforms. I was elated to discover the uniform attire is "preferred" and not "required".

Many offices do require a uniform. The last office that I worked in was at a factory, we had to wear dark blue slacks, the shirt differed by job, they were all polo shirts with the factory logo on them, but the color told you who was regular office help, who was upper management and what department you belonged to. All uniforms were cleaned by the company (at a cost of $5 a week to the employee).

If you work in the medical profession in an office, you’ll be wearing scrubs too. Even the office personal of the major grocery store here wear the same kaki pants and shirt with the store logo on it that the employees wear. Our bank requires their employees to wear blazers with the bank logo on it, I assume that the black slacks are required because they all wear them.

The offices that I worked in that did not have a specific uniform had very strict dress codes. I clerked for a judge and was required to wear a black shirt (nylons were required with skirts, period) or slacks with very specific criteria for blouses and sweaters, and black shoes were required. The clothes purchased for that job became a uniform.

Now that I think about it, I’ve never worked anywhere that I could just throw what I want on and head to work.

Expressing yourself falls into the social catagory, not school or work. Especially not work, as an employee you are representing the company you work for.

My cousin is an electrical engineer, he’s worked for the government, the Howard Hughes (now GE) currently the largest firm in the country. He comments on the new employees coming in that are required to remove all piercings and cover all tattoos; turtlenecks in the summer for some.

Businessess take these things seriously. The company he works for will not hire smokers.

In working world, unless you own your own company, SOMEONE ELSE will tell you how to dress and wear your hair.

I think uniforms are a great thing. It helps parent financially as often the uniform is cheaper. As for kids expressing themsleves? Well thats good, but usually they want to express themselves through their parents money. Black school shoes cost £20 -£30, but the latest foot craze can be upwards of £60.