Disability process

Wait I stand corrected she gained a SS income check from her late husband. She's a widow so there was not a 10 yr marriage rule. She just got out if the hospital and filed for medicade to cover costs retroactive. But bc she has an inheritance I'm not sure medicade will come thru. She's been back and forth with them and the hospital bill is $45k. She's not indigent though.

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Oh alright that makes more sense...I thought maybe there were other programs for elderly people that have nothing...makes sense that SSI would be for that to.

I'm on SSDI and I was going to sell a house where I could stand to make $90k. I talked to a financial advisor, and he said the profit from selling the home would not have any affect on my SSDI status. Also, the stock, savings, homes etc I owned were in no way a determent to my being approved for SSDI.

Well I definitely am, but my lawyer has to prove that it prevents me from working.

You've helped me a lot. I was not sure about ssdi and an inheritance.

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That's kind of what I thought you might be referring to. People have gotten SS income from a late spouse.

I know a man who gave up his own SS, in order to get his late wife's because her's was worth more, due to her making more money than he had made. He got it, even though they had been divorced. He was eligible because the marriage had lasted for over 10 years.

"If you are the divorced spouse of a worker who dies, you could get benefits just the same as a widow or widower, provided that your marriage lasted 10 years or more." From: Survivors Planner: If You're The Worker's Surviving Divorced Spouse

The lady you are describing may have to "spend down" her inheritance before she can get Medicaid. She may not have to become totally indigent, necessarily. There is a whole body of rules about what you can and can't own. (Like you don't necessarily have to sell your house, depending. But the government reserves the right to go after any property when you're dead. They will get it before your heirs will. I think that is called their "Right of Recovery." They even have some claim on some insurance money that your heirs might get, depending on this and that.)

That would be totally correct.

If President Obama (age 52) has a totally disabling stroke tomorrow, he gets SSDI that kicks in starting October, 2014. How much pension money he gets as a former president has nothing to do with it. He would also get Medicare starting in 2016. If he regains the use of his faculties in 2017 and starts making speeches that he gets well paid for, then he loses the SSDI and the Medicare.

That's an excellent point. Just having a serious sounding diagnosis and getting treatment for it will not get you a darn thing. You have to make a convincing argument that the diagnosis prevents you from working. The lawyer doesn't have to prove that, exactly . . . just make a very reasonable argument, which the Social Security Administration finds plausible.

In my case, my lawyer didn't have to make the argument. I made it myself, on that 13 page questionnaire that I filled out. I really thought I would get turned down, and then I'ld let the lawyers do the arguing. That's often how it goes. To my surprise, the SSA thought my argument was good enough.

If I were 10 years younger than I am, I doubt they would have approved me. The older you are, the easier it is to get approved (all other things being equal.)

You don't need to make any argument, if you are totally blind. It is assumed that blindness makes you automatically disabled from working . . . even if you can sing like Jose Feliciano. Of course, if you start selling records, you will lose the benefit.

Other illnesses that get you automatically approved are Lou Gehrig's disease and end stage kidney failure that puts you on dialysis.

Lots of people suffering from Cancer were told that they could still get a job.

I think my problem was that I was too strict on my questionare and didn't make any attempts to try to tailor it to my disability.

That is a big insight. I think you are exactly right. But no one tells you that you have some freedom in how you answer those questions. I tailored the heck out of it, to use your very apt phrase. I crammed every nook and corner of each page with details about the way my diagnoses were creating problems for me in the workplace.

Where I listed all the jobs that I had failed at, I put minute details on how my health impacted my performance. I owe a lot of that to the attorney videos on YouTube. Plus there is a great non-profit website that I can't think of right now. It gives fantastic advice. It is supported by showing advertisements.

Your lawyer will reapproach all those questions you answered in a much more expansive way. Don't give up hope.

I know that but I think that my lawyer was a little surprised in how I handled answering the questions at the first hearing with such a serious tone she was sort of hoping that I would get a little lost and even goof off a little at the hearing, honestly I think that she needs to prep me more before my next hearing, scheduled for August 15th

Terroni, Oh, so you are already at the level of going to "hearings." You have been at this process for awhile, then, and you are deep into it.

Your lawyer should be thoroughly prepping you, for sure. You could educate yourself a bit about how to answer these questions. Use the next few months to go online and bone up.

To get you started, check out this link: How to Answer Questions at a Social Security Disability Hearing | Disability Secrets

Google up: How to answer questions at a SSDI hearing. Read everything you can. Also, check out YouTube for stuff like this below:



Watch and read this stuff over and over. You will be much better prepared. Write down some ideas about what you want to put in your answers.

But what ends up happening is that you get yourself so far into a hole that no matter how you answer you end up hunting your chances.

Aaahh Terroni, It sounds like you are getting into defeatist thinking. Try to focus on preparation.

I would be in a panic anticipating being qrilled by an administrative judge, so I don't mean to minimize your stress. But the more you have an idea what questions will come at you and what the best answers should be, the less you will get like a "deer in the headlights," or say too much, which can be just as bad.

It's taken a lot to get to this stage. Hang in there.

And hopefully my SSI appeal hearing won't be much different from my SSD appeal hearing.

I would think they would be similar. Actually, I am surprised that they have separate hearing for each of those. You might want to double check on that. But the goal is the same for either benefit, SSDI, or SSI. You want to present the experiences you've had that show how your illness(es) have made job performance not what it would be, if you felt well.

Well we made the decision to appeal SSI long after we decided to appeal SSD.

My paralegal had a case where the client had terminal cancer and was denied. Horrible! The paperwork was daunting for me and thay make it that way like taxes imo because for the most part they don't want to give you $$

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thickntired's point that the paperwork is daunting is worth taking to heart. This is why I would not recommend anyone undertaking this without some professional help. That doesn't mean it's wisest to sit back and let the law firm do everything. Most of what the law firm does for a applicant is not done by the lawyer. It is done by the clerks in the law office. (The lawyer gets into it when and if you have to go for a hearing.) The law clerks do this stuff every day, so they know what they are doing. Those big firms that specialize in disability have armies of clerks to do a lot of the boring work that involves getting paperwork together.

For instance, you need medical records from everyone you saw for treatment. The law firm I used had a team of clerks who specialized in checking what records were slow in coming back. They are experts in hounding the providers until they get those records. Plus they keep track of all deadlines, which is extremely important. (and I think providers are quicker to cough up those records when the request is coming from a law office.)

There are some alternatives to using a law firm. A lot of communities have a non-profit agency that helps promote the welfare of people with disabilities. Many of these agencies will also help you apply. I went to one. They said they would only help me if I first tried to do it myself and got denied. That's not such a smart way to go. If I had done it myself, I might have made statements to the SSA that would have hurt my claim. Then to try and retract some dumb thing I said would be pretty hard to do. Many lawyers will not take your case, unless you have already been denied. (That's because they make more money on a claim that is going through for the second time, since there will be more back benefits to get a percentage of.) Again: I think it is better to have expert guidance from the get-go, so you don't put down something in writing that you will later find out hurts you. (I learned this from watching on-line videos of attorneys explaining things.)

There are also non-attorney firms for hire that you can use. They help you with the paper work, but they can not give legal advice. I would think they do a decent job. They probably have a level of expertise similar to that of the clerks at the law firms. Still, if you end up having to go to a hearing, you might be best off with a lawyer at that point. and you may not be able to get one at that stage of the game.)

I don't like to waste my money, and I don't like to pay someone to do something I can do myself. So I gave very careful consideration to doing it all alone. In the end, I chose to work with the law firm, and I'm very glad I did. I've heard people say you are better off to work with a local attorney who knows you, rather than one of those big nationwide disability specialist law firms. I would disagree on that. There is nothing like having a specialist, whether it's in medicine or the law.

Absolutely on Rose's statement about using legal counsel I agree. But the paperwork from SS that gives insight on your day to day activities will be filled out by you the client. It is very important to remember that the ONLY info needed is how your disability has an affect on your employment. Also, xerox all of this paperwork because you will have to resend the same thing in the future. I had to resend my work history of 10 years twice. Then, have your paralegal get you a request to sign for release of your paperwork from SS. You'll want this bc if you're denied it will be in those papers.

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So, here's my overall experience. Obviously, take from it what you will:

I applied for SSDI and SSI when I was 22 on the basis of a myriad of physical health issues.
I did not use a lawyer at this time. I was advised, pretty much across the board, that it is basically a waste to take on a lawyer for initial application, and I agreed. I still agree.

At that point, they really CAN'T do anything that you, or a friend or loved one, or a free advocacy service could do for you. It would be a waste of your money should you win- and most legitimate and relatively honorable disability lawyers won't actually agree to take on disability applications at the initial stage.

As of now I have been involved in assisting and advising in several applications and in most cases I actually would consider a lawyer a bit sketchy if they would agree to take on a case in the initial application stage.

So...
after receiving the huge amount of files and records from my various doctors, not including my psychiatrist, but including my psychologist, the SSA requested a psych eval done by them.

I agreed to the psych eval. However, I knew that I had a right to have it done by my psychiatrist, as long as he agreed to be paid the fee from SSA. SO I called them and told them I would have him do it instead. Unless this has changed very recently, as far as i know this is still the case: If you are requested to have an exam- medical or psychiatric- by an SSA doctor, you can request to have the same exam performed by your own doctor if they have the same qualifications and if they agree to the fee paid out by the SSA. It makes sense because they have been seeing you, can understand your responses and results in context, etc etc.

Something pretty important that came from this exam:
There is a question that asks something like "Do you feel the claimant will ever be capable of complete self-support?"

My doctor answered no.
While that is kind of a crappy thing to read, I'm pretty sure it was a fairly integral piece to the determination of my case.

It took six months for them to determine my case as approved.
I only had the initial application, never had a lawyer and I'm pretty sure the weight is on the mental health issues.

I've been on disability since the end of 2004. I've tried numerous times to have and keep a job, been in and out of school.

I have had two reviews- both of these I found out occurred after the fact. I got a letter telling me that my case had been reviewed and it had been determined I am still disabled.

So that's running about every five years they are reviewing my case. Which means right out of the gate i was put in somewhere in the "permanent impairment" area.

I don't like that. It's not a good time. I have to say after almost ten years of this crap it kind of wears on a person. But as more time goes by and my body deteriorates I kind of wonder if my doctor was right.

ANYWAY- I still stand by the whole "Don't waste money on a lawyer right away" thing. You will need that money and you will miss it. Save it because you might not need it. Be methodical and thorough.

I went in for a face to face initial interview.
I found some one to help me, I printed the questions out and answered them with someone, who typed them up and made a physical copy of the application, submitted it twice by certified mail.

There are advocacy organizations that are free or extremely low cost [extremely low- way way lower than any lawyer]- sometimes through hospitals you have been to, or your doctor office may help refer you- that might be able to help.

I'm working on my taxes today, which I have almost always done by myself, since I was 16 years old. I am amazed at how many people are overwhelmed at the thought of doing their own taxes, even if they are eligible for using the 1040EZ form. If you don't own property and you don't have a bunch of deductions to itemize AND you still feel you need to have a trained person do your taxes for you, then you are going to be a lot more overwhelmed, if you try to file for SSDI/SSI on your own.

Some people - a lot - don't have the capacity to be as methodical and thorough, as the process requires. If you have friends or loved ones who are willing to take on doing the task, or even part of it, on your behalf, then you must have been extraordinarily blessed in the friend/family department because getting through this is one aggravating ordeal.

The most it can cost you, if you get a lawyer, is about $6000. For most people, that is about 3 to 6 months worth of benefits. It is nothing to sneeze at, but it is not a fortune, either. If your claim gets quickly approved, as mine did, then the lawyer gets nothing (zilch) because there are no back benefits. If your claim is not going to get approved quickly, there is a good chance you are going to need a lawyer anyway. Statistically, you have a better chance with a lawyer than without.

It is simply not true that reputable, ethical attorneys do not take on clients, until they have been denied once and need to make a further attempt at getting a claim approved. Some attorneys choose not to, but their reason is that they want to avoid cases like mine that get quickly approved leaving them with no back benefits to get a percentage of.

I desperately wanted my claim to be approved the first time it got presented. That's because I had no income and was facing possible homelessness, if I didn't get SSDI real soon. That was my main reason for getting legal assistance. I did extensive research at the bookstore, library and on-line. Even still, I would not have been so well-organized, if I hadn't gotten the help of a law firm. It is good to actively participate in getting the paperwork completed. My law firm had a website with a client portal. I could go on there and see what the clerks were in the middle of doing. I found, for instance, that they had incorrectly taken down the addresses of some of my doctors. I called them and got that corrected. I checked their work, and I would call to tell them what I was doing and have them check mine. I recommend that approach.

One lawyer's video that I watched advised that having a supportive doctor can be as important, if not more so, than having a good lawyer. That really is true. But that does not mean the doctor is going to do a whole lot for you. Still, a letter from a supportive doctor can be worth its weight in gold.

So, again, there are numerous advocacy services as well- these are not friends or family or lawyers, who often are either free or very low cost, that will assist one in being methodical and thorough... I don't assume that everyone has friends or family to assist them through the process.

I didn't do it on my own, as i mentioned, and i hardly expect anyone to be able to. I also suspect it is more common a case to be without many- or any- friends or family that would be willing to help one through the entire process. Unfourtunately mental illness has a way of alientating a person from those around them.

That is why i specifically mentioned exploring advocacy services, many of which are not well advertised, unfourtunately... which you failed to address when you responded to me.

BTW- I have a lot of difficulty doing my taxes myself as well, I usually find a free service to do it.

You did seem to take just what you wanted from my response, which I did in fact suggest.
Done now

When I was filing out the forms as part of my appeal for SSD, my doctor checked the box that said "Permanently Disabled" but I think that it did little to help my case.

It is absolutely true that there are advocacy services, as well, that don't charge a fee. I should have restated that above. I did mention it in an earlier post to this thread (see paragraph 3 of post # 69, above.) Here is what I posted:

"There are some alternatives to using a law firm. A lot of communities have a non-profit agency that helps promote the welfare of people with disabilities. Many of these agencies will also help you apply. I went to one. (I neglected to emphasize that the help at this advocacy agency would have been for free. I lost confidence in them, but that is strictly my own personal feeling.)

For some folk, an advocacy service might even work better than a lawyer. That's because they get to know you face-to-face in a way that some of the big law firms don't. (All my dealings with the law firm were through telephone and mail.) They might give more personalized service and some counseling about what to expect. How many groups are out there providing this service varies from place to place, and their policies vary. The one near me goes by the name Independent Living Resource Center. Throughout the country, their are similar organizations with similar sounding names. (Some are named "Resources for Independent Living.") I'm glad I went to them because it was they who first gave me the idea to even think about applying and evaluated me as someone who would be successful with a claim. They were very nice people, but I did want help from the get-go, which they would not provide, only if and when my first attempt on my own failed.

Some mental health centers may provide assistance with the process. I friend of mine got all the help he needed through the mental health center where he was being treated.

Certainly, many folk have used advocacy agencies and saved themselves thousands of dollars. There are pros and cons to using them, but it is an option that anyone doing this should explore.

If you start with an advocacy group, and then - down the road - you find you are facing hearings and feel you need a lawyer, you may have great difficulty finding one. Lawyers do not want to finish a claim started by another entity. That is because it means they can only bill you for the extent to which their services went above and beyond what the advocacy agency did. That's very hard, if not impossible, to figure out in dollars and cents. Many lawyers won't touch you if you once you become involved with an advocacy group.

The advocacy group in my community had a person who had a degree in law (he had a J.D. degree, doctor of jurisprudence degree), though he had never been admitted to the bar. I believe he would go to hearings with clients. Was he as good as a licensed lawyer? Personally, I wouldn't want to bet my disability claim on it. But that's just me.

Some claims are more easily determined than others. If you've got very enthusiastic support from doctors, then you may be more likely to have a claim that will sail through, no matter who helps you. Makes sense to do it the cheapest way possible. A lot of claims are very arguable, and then it all comes down to having someone who is maximum-skilled at making an argument.

I think readers of this thread can benefit from the robust discussion above. You can compare two points of view. I think we've each made a good case for why we did it the way that we did. We were both successful in our claims. You can also read more input on line from others. There is a wealth of stuff on-line about this.

I'm sure there are claimants for whom getting help from an advocacy group is the best way to go. Sorry, if I seemed to be ruling that out.