[IDoNotExist]

Ok, so I am 27 years old and should and do not want to live with my mother any more. I am taking steps to leaving; however, in the past I have been guilted into forfeiting large amounts of money (~35k).

I am very confused and feel alone because my family seems to center around her. This will be long but I desperately need to know if this is a possible narcissist.

Rather than make this a laborious story, I will give bullet points of the most startling behavior as noted by myself and others . I will keep it as matter-of-fact as possible:

• She refused to leave a burning building while pregnant with me because she did not have her makeup on (age ~31)
• She had a man (friend) who she befriended in a pseudo-romantic fashion, only to kick him out the house once she got her Master's at 32. He is my "father" insofaras he put his name on my birth certificate and took care of me and my sister. Even today, he will change his whole position after talking with her.
• She then befriended a lesbian for the sole intent of getting "eaten out" and gifts.
• She later broke it off with said lesbian as she began to expect more of a relationship; the lesbian had to call her job and threaten her to get her bracelet back. She refused until her boss told her of the reports. This behavior continued into her 50s. She always said she had no desire to reciprocate and was not a lesbian.
• She continuously told my sister that she liked that I was a lighter complexion, like she is (I'm an AA).
• My sister was kicked out at 16 for hitting me too much from 2-3.
• She refused to hold my hand from 3-5 while crossing the street as this inhibited her "walk."
• I was not allowed to play with others in my neighboorhood because they were "bad kids"
• She spends about 2-3 hours in the mirror per day, fixing her hair. The less attention I give her, the more outlandishly made-up she becomes, peaking when I am away for a few days.
• She insists that those she has had issues with are mentally unwell.
• She has slept with one person, only to sleep with his brother the next month. She thought the fact that they were fighting over her to the point of near-death was amusing.
• She does display empathy--but I am unsure if it is real, as it can switch easily depending on what is said.
• As a loner (I'm heavily schizoid if not fully), she does not like me doing too much for myself. She has come to college unannounced to clean, organize, etc and becomes irate when these things need not be done.
• She has involuntarily commited me multiple times (she is good at triggering people) and omitted completely details of the ongoings of my house (i.e. having to defend her from her drunk boyfriend to near death at 16-17).
• During my last hospitalization, she refused to visit because I let staff know of these things. She did not want "her buissness" out there, despite putting mine in sordid detail in each involuntary commitment (I have had no other involuntary commitments anywhere else by any other party).
• She has lied in order to guilt multiple times. The last being a call I made to CPS on my sister (who lives with a child in deplorable conditions). She claimed my "father" (her friend) was crying on the phone and that I upset him deeply. He did not know any of this at the time when I called him, and there were no logs of any call being made or recieved from him that day on her phone. Once I proved it was a lie, she continued to insist it was not.
• I have never heard her apologize for anything regarding the home environment. Attempts to do so are normally deflected back to me "What about you" etc.
• She is obsessed with expensive/showy things. She has paid for cars that are 9/10ths her mortage rate despite financial strain solely because "it looked good"
• She claims not to know how to use things, only to use them to a near expert degree once a man shows interest (e.g. she learned how to take pictures and e-mail on a smartphone in 20 minutes, despite claiming needing lessons from me for a year).
• She has admitted to manipulation in jest, stating something of the sort, "When you were little, I'd just frown like this and you'd do it"
• When I did not e-mail or call her for about 3 days while living alone, she sent me a long e-mail about how she knew I had a significant other and was ignoring her (I was just depressed and being a loner).
• She has lied to cops (e.g. she said "he is not on his medication" after getting into an argument with me, then laughed)
• All of her relationships have a high degree of recalled victimization. In fact, I do not know what she did to others as she is always painted as a victim in her accounts.
• If she clashes with people (i.e. car accident), she will rant about her Master's degree or some status, etc. She becomes very, very foul-mothed and angry.
• She visits her mother, yet mocks her when she begins to rant (she is manic depressive).
• Her sister has called her cold-hearted multiple times and most of her family dislikes her (again, she painted this as jealousy/envy of her).
• At my early age (5-7), she'd claim people were looking at her (in almost every store) and jealous of her hair/beauty (her hair is fake). If I said I doubted it, she'd call me naive.
• She is overly protective. If I want to do something, she begins shaming and listing reasons why something will go wrong/fail. This becomes increasingly desperate when I would say I would leave the house for a long period of time.
• She seems threatened by my independence, multiple times, mocking and shaming "go ahead, spread your wings if u gotta be a man; you're a man either way, why does it matter if you do it alone?"
• As such, she will then complain of very, very trivial things. I.E. a request to clean the kitchen is denied because its "her kitchen". Ordering a meal $2 more than another is a complaint/shame. Taking a bottle of unopened toilet cleaner is "wasting her money"
• She seems to try to evoke a negative response, i.e. (today) turning hot water on my hand, almost as if she wants to be hit
• She will leave the house, claim being cold and victimized until I "fold" I am "disturbing her peace". This has been echoed in many of her relations.
• She will not recognize help. Despite the fact that if I were not here during grad school she would have lost her house, she continues to assert that I was with her for all years, despite living 85% of it on campus of alone.
• She will curse me out and try to elicit a response, then return with the cops or some other threat, claiming to "be a caring and concered parent" with a cunning degree of believability.
• She used to be angry with the fact that I said we did not look hispanic. This normally ended in a diatribe.
• She has had to file bankruptcy after buying a big house with lots of furniture despite never having company and only 2 cohabitants
• She has asserted things occured with straight-face that are impossible to have occured for shaming.
• She had liasons with a man who used her solely for sex, yet asserted that he was in love with her and being used by her. When I commented, she said I was jealous.
• She has said, "You can be my man" etc multiple times in "jest".
• Any attempt to get her to own up to this is met with deflection. I.E. "Mom you were abused" turns into "by you!" etc.
• She quickly glides through emotions for shaming. e.g. I pretended to "breakdown" and apologize, asserting my disorder was caused by a brain abnormality--not her parenting or genetics at all. She then said how lonely she was without me in the house etc.
• Ex-friends dubbed her "Master Manipulator of the Mentally Ill"

I do think she might have NPD. It's sad because my friends have said this house was non-ideal, but I stayed and gave money. The only way I can survive now is to threaten her with documents she sent me to write for her (breaches of HIPPA law/child neglect).


She is a foster child who was abused. Her mother is a manic depressive (and possibly borderline from what I've seen--very flighty and mean out of nowhere). My 1 uncle stabbed himself 44 times and the other jumped from a roof and is now paralysed from the waist down. Another was shot in the head. Mental illness runs rampant on her side.

Any takes?

[Mattmx]

I'd suggest you read this thread:
http://forums.psychcentral.com/narci...-reminder.html

[IDoNotExist]

Originally Posted by Mattmx

I'd suggest you read this thread:
http://forums.psychcentral.com/narci...-reminder.html

I see no shaming of narcissism directly in this thread whatsoever. I asked a question regarding whether or not this looked like NPD

If you are struggling with issues surrounding caring for a loved one with a mental health issue,

As I do not know if she is, it would be improper to assert a role of "caregiver"

Any specific forum that addresses a particular mental health issue is primarily for discussing that issue, and members accessing this to provide support or seek it, are usually garnering great inner courage to speak out about how they are feeling and what they are facing. I

It says nothing about having to have the disorder itself.

I don't see a breach, and I felt the need to talk about it. If it offends you, report it or please do not read.

[Mattmx]

Originally Posted by IDoNotExist

I see no shaming of narcissism directly in this thread whatsoever. I asked a question regarding whether or not this looked like NPD

As I do not know if she is, it would be improper to assert a role of "caregiver"

It says nothing about having to have the disorder itself.

I don't see a breach, and I felt the need to talk about it. If it offends you, report it or please do not read.

I am just trying to point you in the correct direction.

[IDoNotExist]

Originally Posted by Mattmx

I am just trying to point you in the correct direction.

Sorry for being rude. I'm on edge now. It's so hard dealing with these people. I almost wish at this point that I did die or was never born to them.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by IDoNotExist

Sorry for being rude. I'm on edge now. It's so hard dealing with these people. I almost wish at this point that I did die or was never born to them.

Not rude, just ask mod, to stick in appropriate forum, that they deem appropriate, even relationships and communication may suffice. I didn't notice which forum this was in, until i read the thread.

You'll get less triggered feedback, i presume.

Sounds like a tough situation. I'm sending gentle (((hugs))) and will be able to better respond, after some sleep and thought...

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2

[Thorn Bird]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

Not rude, just ask mod, to stick in appropriate forum, that they deem appropriate, even relationships and communication may suffice. I didn't notice which forum this was in, until i read the thread.

You'll get less triggered feedback, i presume.

Sounds like a tough situation. I'm sending gentle (((hugs))) and will be able to better respond, after some sleep and thought...

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2

I got in to trouble for asking questions on the forum and I think it is a shame that as they call us 'nons' and narcissists cannot work together - I do not judge them and recognise they have a disorder - although I am a non I am only human and have lots of flaws and faults and I think if we are going to learn about our partners or relatives who better than ask people who suffer from this. However, I have been told not to do this!

[A Red Panda]

This is a sticky at the top of this forum:
http://forums.psychcentral.com/narci...-reminder.html

It does clearly state that if you're seeking help about someone who has the disorder, to kindly use the Relationship or Caregivers forum for it.

And yes, I see that Matt posted the link too, but I'm still linking it anyway as my response is based on that thread.

The fact is, even though the OP isn't being derogatory... it's about someone else, and someone who isn't diagnosed with NPD. By posting and listing off all of the horrible things that this person has done... it's indirectly going "This person is horrible=they must be NPD=NPD people are all horrible". The forum is for people who are diagnosed with NPD or have at least self-diagnosed themselves with it - and are seeking support for themselves. Whether that support in their threads comes from other people who have NPD or others who do not have NPD is fine.

But the OP in this thread does not have NPD, and does not suspect that they have NPD. They suspect that their mother does. When the thread is about someone else, it belongs in Caregivers or Relationships. Sometimes Survivors of Abuse.

[IDoNotExist]

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

This is a sticky at the top of this forum:
http://forums.psychcentral.com/narci...-reminder.html

It does clearly state that if you're seeking help about someone who has the disorder, to kindly use the Relationship or Caregivers forum for it.

And yes, I see that Matt posted the link too, but I'm still linking it anyway as my response is based on that thread.

The fact is, even though the OP isn't being derogatory... it's about someone else, and someone who isn't diagnosed with NPD. By posting and listing off all of the horrible things that this person has done... it's indirectly going "This person is horrible=they must be NPD=NPD people are all horrible". The forum is for people who are diagnosed with NPD or have at least self-diagnosed themselves with it - and are seeking support for themselves. Whether that support in their threads comes from other people who have NPD or others who do not have NPD is fine.

But the OP in this thread does not have NPD, and does not suspect that they have NPD. They suspect that their mother does. When the thread is about someone else, it belongs in Caregivers or Relationships. Sometimes Survivors of Abuse.

It does clearly state that if you're seeking help about someone who has the disorder, to kindly use the Relationship or Caregivers forum for it.

There is an inherent ambiguity in the the text in which I state that NPD or any diagnosis cannot be and has not been ascertained.

it's indirectly going "This person is horrible=they must be NPD=NPD people are all horrible".

No it does not implicate NPD.

There is no deduction in there stating that horrible must implicate NPD. There is a question as to whether this type of behavior is indicative of NPD in some capacity.

This person is horrible

This was never stated.

they must be NPD

There is nothing in my post stating that this must = anything with any definitiveness that would imply equivalence.

NPD people are all horrible

I've restricted all comments to "she" as in one element of the subset of all possible people with NPD'ers.

All the equivalences are not equivalences bashed sheerly on the ambiguity that I made sure to include so that such equivalences are not stated.

While I admit it may be better off in other fora based upon responses here, I am not following this logic as equivalences are by very nature unequivocal.

I believe she may have NPD could mean: she could have BDD, QTP, X14 or J27.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic

I will be moving this, but I do not feel ashamed for posting this here as there is no direct breach. If you feel as though there was, please report it as per forum protocol.

[Mattmx]

Originally Posted by IDoNotExist

There is an inherent ambiguity in the the text in which I state that NPD or any diagnosis cannot be and has not been ascertained.

No it does not implicate NPD.

There is no deduction in there stating that horrible must implicate NPD. There is a question as to whether this type of behavior is indicative of NPD in some capacity.

This was never stated.

There is nothing in my post stating that this must = anything with any definitiveness that would imply equivalence.

I've restricted all comments to "she" as in one element of the subset of all possible people with NPD'ers.

All the equivalences are not equivalences bashed sheerly on the ambiguity that I made sure to include so that such equivalences are not stated.

While I admit it may be better off in other fora based upon responses here, I am not following this logic as equivalences are by very nature unequivocal.

I believe she may have NPD could mean: she could have BDD, QTP, X14 or J27.

This forum is for people who have NPD THEMSELVES to talk about it and seek help from others, NOT for people with family.

[A Red Panda]

Originally Posted by IDoNotExist

There is an inherent ambiguity in the the text in which I state that NPD or any diagnosis cannot be and has not been ascertained.

That's irrelevant to what I said: I said that the post I had linked to says that if you are seeking help for someone else, to use the Relationship or Caregivers forum.

Originally Posted by IDoNotExist

No it does not implicate NPD.

There is no deduction in there stating that horrible must implicate NPD. There is a question as to whether this type of behavior is indicative of NPD in some capacity.

Then why are you posting in an NPD subforum when there are much more appropriate ones?

Originally Posted by IDoNotExist

This was never stated.

There is nothing in my post stating that this must = anything with any definitiveness that would imply equivalence.

Now, here is where you are intentionally misrepresenting what I said. You broke apart one sentence of mine. Simply by posting in here about someone and listing off all of the things that have happened... that are negative... is in fact implying indirectly that the person in question is believed to have NPD. By thus posting that, you are thus posting to every NPD person who reads this thread that NPD must equal negative and other such bad things. I never said once that you said that directly - I very clearly used the word "indirectly".

Quite frankly, I was attempting to explain to you why your post wouldn't be appreciated in this subforum, and at the same time direct you towards the appropriate forum. I even said that you weren't being derogatory, but you have chosen to take the stance that I've attacked or insulted you. I was trying to be helpful and to give you a different perspective on how your post could come across.

[IDoNotExist]

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

That's irrelevant to what I said: I said that the post I had linked to says that if you are seeking help for someone else, to use the Relationship or Caregivers forum.


Then why are you posting in an NPD subforum when there are much more appropriate ones?


Now, here is where you are intentionally misrepresenting what I said. You broke apart one sentence of mine. Simply by posting in here about someone and listing off all of the things that have happened... that are negative... is in fact implying indirectly that the person in question is believed to have NPD. By thus posting that, you are thus posting to every NPD person who reads this thread that NPD must equal negative and other such bad things. I never said once that you said that directly - I very clearly used the word "indirectly".

Quite frankly, I was attempting to explain to you why your post wouldn't be appreciated in this subforum, and at the same time direct you towards the appropriate forum. I even said that you weren't being derogatory, but you have chosen to take the stance that I've attacked or insulted you. I was trying to be helpful and to give you a different perspective on how your post could come across.

Indirectly precludes your ability to establish equivalences of any sort, as, as per the link, it could have multiple interpretations. Likewise, you chose your interpretation. I chose mine.

Please report it. This is the last reply you will receive from me. To say my post = NPD are all bad etc. is an insult to my post as I specifically never stated equivalences, though you may continue to feign purely good-intentions with as many replies as you like from now on.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by IDoNotExist

Indirectly precludes your ability to establish equivalences of any sort, as, as per the link, it could have multiple interpretations. Likewise, you chose your interpretation. I chose mine.

Please report it. This is the last reply you will receive from me. To say my post = NPD are all bad etc. is an insult to my post as I specifically never stated equivalences, though you may continue to feign purely good-intentions with as many replies as you like from now on.

I couldn't be bothered with reading your entire post, but it sounds like you're being a bit oversensitive here. People are trying to point you in a direction where you can get more support.

Also, how would knowing if she's NPD or not help you? Just wondering.

[Mattmx]

Originally Posted by IDoNotExist

Indirectly precludes your ability to establish equivalences of any sort, as, as per the link, it could have multiple interpretations. Likewise, you chose your interpretation. I chose mine.

Please report it. This is the last reply you will receive from me. To say my post = NPD are all bad etc. is an insult to my post as I specifically never stated equivalences, though you may continue to feign purely good-intentions with as many replies as you like from now on.

Why is it so hard for you to accept our advice and start a thread in the appropriate forum?

[IDoNotExist]

Originally Posted by Atypical_Disaster

I couldn't be bothered with reading your entire post, but it sounds like you're being a bit oversensitive here. People are trying to point you in a direction where you can get more support.

Also, how would knowing if she's NPD or not help you? Just wondering.

First: No problem to the beginning. I did not expect everyone to read it in its entirety as its

Second: I suppose it wouldn't, in all honesty. I just am wondering if this would mean I inherited cluster B traits from her as I was at one point dx'ed with BPD, which was later more aptly described as schizoid.

At this point, a more utilitarian "screw it and treat it as it is" is probably more appropriate. It was somewhat therapeutic to simply right it, strangely.

[IDoNotExist]

Originally Posted by Mattmx

Why is it so hard for you to accept our advice and start a thread in the appropriate forum?

Hmm, I will--maybe. It's just that some of this "he implied all NPDs are bad" is a near mirror of the shaming that I've seen done not only to me but to my stepdad for 40 years. It's triggering, I guess. I'm in a very foul mood/defensive.

As I said, I mean nothing against NPD. Also, it seems I can't edit it or move it now? How would I go about that?

In my defence, however; if someone asked if their boyfriend disappearing for 2 months without social contacts was something I related to, I'd say yes. This relates to me heavily as a schizoid.

Disorders are by nature not "good;" we all are here because our aberrations have caused some type of signigicant social, economic, or intrapersonal strain. I see no need to sugar-coat it. Sam Valkin has zero issue stating his malignant traits, nor do I.

Moreover, instead of long psuedo-logical rebuts, I'm surprised no one has said whether they related to it or not. It would seem that would have been a lot easier, but I suppose I should remember where I am posting and the nature of the illness itself. Unfortunately, no degree of narcicism can supplement logical structure (fuzzy logic). Thank god for rationality....

The degree of deflection here as opposed to a straight-forward yes/no/"I think so"/"That doesn't relate to me" etc speaks volumes more than the actual answer I suppose. I have seen near opposite in the BPD section, for example.

[Mattmx]

Originally Posted by IDoNotExist

Hmm, I will--maybe. It's just that some of this "he implied all NPDs are bad" is a near mirror of the shaming that I've seen done not only to me but to my stepdad for 40 years. It's triggering, I guess. I'm in a very foul mood/defensive.

As I said, I mean nothing against NPD. Also, it seems I can't edit it or move it now? How would I go about that?

In my defence, however; if someone asked if their boyfriend disappearing for 2 months without social contacts was something I related to, I'd say yes. This relates to me heavily as a schizoid.

Disorders are by nature not "good;" we all are here because our aberrations have caused some type of signigicant social, economic, or interpersonal strain. I see no need to sugar-coat it. Sam Valkin has zero issue stating his malignant traits, nor do I.

Moreover, instead of long psuedo-logical rebuts, I'm surprised no one has said whether they related to it or not. It would seem that would have been a lot easier, but I suppose I should remember where I am posting and the nature of the illness itself. Unfortunately, no degree of narcicism can supplement logical structure (fuzzy logic). Thank god for rationality....

The degree of deflection here as opposed to a straight-forward yes/no/"I think so"/"That doesn't relate to me" etc speaks volumes more than the actual answer I suppose. I have seen near opposite in the BPD section, for example.

If you go to the correct forum you'll find people that can relate to it..this one is meant for the actual people with npd, not their family.
If you wish to move it, I believe the easiest way would honestly be to copy and paste your first post into the other section, or contact a moderator/administrator to move it for you

[IDoNotExist]

Originally Posted by Mattmx

If you go to the correct forum you'll find people that can relate to it..this one is meant for the actual people with npd, not their family.
If you wish to move it, I believe the easiest way would honestly be to copy and paste your first post into the other section, or contact a moderator/administrator to move it for you

Sure, but just remember that this thread is not incongruent with "rules" as per the thread, hence why this is at most a grey area:

Anyone can post here providing their post is looking for support or giving support and not degrading the NPD personally or generally.

There was no denigration of the disorder itself here, whatsoever. This person could have J756kljsdf disorder.

Those of you who are not NPD but looking for support in dealing with an NPD, you are more than welcome to use either the Caregivers Forum or the Relationships Forum.

This again would imply that I know she has NPD, which I do not.

Again, I don't understand why this seems so rigid here. It clearly falls into an "other" category. Despite looking for support, I had to recall my course in discrete mathematics. That was unexpected but I suppose not surprising, as I do the same in real life with the person in question.

[Mattmx]

Originally Posted by IDoNotExist

Sure, but just remember that this thread is not incongruent with "rules" as per the thread, hence why this is at most a grey area:
There was no denigration of the disorder itself here, whatsoever.

This again would imply that I know she has NPD, which I do not.

Again, I don't understand why this seems so rigid here. It clearly falls into an "other" category.

Even if you don't know she has NPD, you're still posting in regards of support for someone else. As I keep saying this is a section for people who have NPD themselves or suspect they do.

[IDoNotExist]

Originally Posted by Mattmx

Even if you don't know she has NPD, you're still posting in regards of support for someone else. As I keep saying this is a section for people who have NPD themselves or suspect they do.

Anyone can post here providing their post is looking for support or giving support and not degrading the NPD personally or generally.

or implies that either the first or second clause can be true to make it true.

Anyone can post here providing their post is looking for support

Please come back with why and how my logic is flawed or not at all. Collect your thanks from whomever but I do not heed this "it's because my interpretation is this, thus it is"

Here's a question: why are you so concerned with replying to me? Do you expect rightness to emerge from redundancy? You've stated your opinion and suggestion at least 3 times now with little to no deviation from the first.

This post will remain here indefinitely. I will discuss it on another forum, but the sheer fact that you have no control over its presence should be therapeutic. Report it.

[healingme4me]

I don't feel, PC, is completely rigid. You've mentioned feelings of shame, in your own past, perhaps, not sure, the notion of moving this to caregivers or relationships/communication, is so that those who come here, in this subforum don't inadvertently read, with own sense of shame, especially, as others may or may not relate.

If you'd like ppl to be able to relate, certainly, if anyone here, were to relate to behaviors versus experiences, where's the fairness and compassion.

At this point, seems, there's a circular discussion, off topic, as it is...

If so strict, it's still in same sub forum, which tells me, there's a bunch of compassion, whilst asserting, gentle boundaries...

The move thread request, seemed fair. Have heart, for those with this disorder, struggling daily themselves...

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2

[IDoNotExist]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

I don't feel, PC, is completely rigid. You've mentioned feelings of shame, in your own past, perhaps, not sure, the notion of moving this to caregivers or relationships/communication, is so that those who come here, in this subforum don't inadvertently read, with own sense of shame, especially, as others may or may not relate.

If you'd like ppl to be able to relate, certainly, if anyone here, were to relate to behaviors versus experiences, where's the fairness and compassion.

At this point, seems, there's a circular discussion, off topic, as it is...

If so strict, it's still in same sub forum, which tells me, there's a bunch of compassion, whilst asserting, gentle boundaries...

The move thread request, seemed fair. Have heart, for those with this disorder, struggling daily themselves...

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2

I have a lot of compassion, hence why I mention she was abused and has a family teeming with mental illness. There was nothing she could have done to prevent that as a child, either environmentally or genetically.

I haven't seen this behavior in other forums, quite honestly. The pseudo-logical, passive-agressive "here's a link; follow this" when it does nothing to embolden their stance is laughable and sadly very relatable.

"I couldn't be bothered" "This implies this amongst many possible interpretations" etc.

I feel like keeping it here is now the therapeutic. Folding is not in my cards any more. I'll leave this here and let those bothered report it.

If someone with NPD kindly says it offends them, I will delete it, but the shaming/linking will fall on silence. In fact, I'll just report them for de-rails, which is far more of an clear infraction. There are literally 1000s of posts to read here; back/refresh/forward still work on browsers the last time I checked.

[Wren_]

hi everyone,

this thread is being closed at this time while the community support team review the thread. As a reminder,

The purpose of the Forums at Psych Central is simple -- it's a small community devoted to support for mental health and relationship issues. In that vein, you should be civil and treat others as you expect to be treated here.