Anyone Else Under the Impression that Change Can Be Good?

I can't speak for the other posters here, but I can speak for myself:

My posts are simply based off of my personal experiences and knowledge about NPD, they're nothing more than my own opinions on the matter. I never once claimed to be an expert.

I can't say whether or not anyone has a disorder on the internet, I can state my opinion on whether one does or doesn't have a disorder. But it's my opinion, that's all it is. It's as simple as that.

And in my opinion, you don't seem to have "a NPD" to me. You seem to be posting here quite obsessively about NPD because a therapist told you that you had some NPD traits. If you are really concerned about all of this, maybe you should follow up with a MH professional that you can trust and get a thorough psychological assessment.

That's my opinion/advice, you can take it or leave it. It won't hurt my feelings either way, because I don't have any.

Oh you poor dear, you must need a hug!

Sure... that makes sense... I agree that I won't know for sure until I get a few more opinions of MH professionals.

I'm not sure I even want to know. It's enough to know that at least one MH professional thought it was enough of an issue to mention it to me.. and look over the diagnosing criteria with me. and that this MH professional appeared to be competent.... and knew me very well.

I'm sure your opinion means a lot to you... but, again, as an outsider... looking in.. do you see how you all are just random people in an internet forum?

I have no idea who you know... or what your experiences with NPD's are.

What made this MH professional that mentioned this to you appear competent to you? What is your definition of a competent MH professional? How do you know that this person knew you very well?

Just curious.

LOL. Yep.. his competence is a judgment call. We did know each other for about 7 years..

And of course....we all know that people get misdiagnosed.

Well, did you see all the things on the list you provided that I listed that my husband does? If your last T did mention it he probably saw the signs in you, that is what my T pointed out to me about my husband. No one ever said anything about it before to me either.

So, my husband has ADHD, and some Narcissistic Traits too, but is not NPD. My husband would be/is interested in improving and would most likely have the same reaction/confusion you are with a NPD diagnosis. My husband gets impatient and has a temper too depending on how well something is going for him. He can be thick headed too when I am trying to point something out to him. He looks back on things he did that were wrong and has a similar feeling that you have, yet will say what he did was stupid.
My husband soaks up "praise" and will point things out that he did to make sure I see it and thank him. He kinda builds his own stage in situations to "stand out" too. He gets bored going to family functions on "my" family side because he doesn't feel he can stand out, however, he doesn't really know this as I am explaining here to you.

Honestly, reading through this thread and other threads and seeing other posters "trying" to explain things to you, even in bold is very much the same as what I tend to go through with my husband.

IMHO, it would be better for you to research ADHD and understand how the ADHD brain works and what you can do to improve some of the things you tend to do simply because of how your brain works. It doesn't mean you are "less than" or "bad" or "incapable" as a person either and it has nothing to do with being less intelligent either as often the opposite is the case.

As a woman married to this type of person, I would have appreciated understanding it better myself rather than banging my head against the wall for all those years. Also, it's important to know because it is definitely "hereditary" too and better for a child to have help with it then to get punished somehow. In "knowing" the type of brain a child has, it really is possible to work with that child so that whatever it is that child is challenged with, the child really can (with proper help) learn gradual ways to develop where whatever it is can be overcome in very positive ways.

Seven years is quite awhile, but still people can miss things. Nobody's perfect. In my opinion I think that being "diagnosed" with NPD traits was a mistake on that person's part. Anyone and everyone displays narcissistic traits at times.

Well, that's certainly your opinion. You could be right... you could be wrong....

Now I have to decide if the opinion of someone I met on the internet should trump the opinion of someone I met with face to face.

I'm starting to feel amused again... it's like you all have decided "we all know... you don't...". and "when we type something in bold... that means it is true... end of story. we know we're right.. because we're random people on the internet".

just know that I always give the opinion of people I meet on the internet all the consideration it deserves.

I never said my opinion should trump someone that you met face to face. All I did was state my opinion. You're reading way too much into my posts. I'm just having a discussion as far as I know. I'm not trying to upset you or anything, but you seem to keep getting really defensive. Why is that?

See.. accusing someone of being defensive is almost impossible to prove one way or the other... it's akin to asking if someone has stopped beating his wife...

What could I do to prove I'm not being defensive? Agree with you?

I'm merely trying to be objective and look at this probabilistically...
Can you try that?

Why am I arguing? Because that is what I do.

The same T that mentioned NPD also mentioned ADHD.... and that is why I am considering it... it does fit certain behaviors and traits I exhibit.

Your own words:

That seems a bit defensive to me.

And the way you've reacted to me saying you're getting a bit defensive, was also a bit defensive.

If you're really trying to be objective then why are you so obsessed that only YOU have the answer? That's what you're accusing all of us of doing. Have you ever heard of "projection" in psychological terms? I think that may be what you're doing here. Nobody here is claiming to be an expert. You're the one quoting the DSM and various articles all over the internet and trying to "prove" that you are right, that nobody in this forum has "a NPD".

I don't mind having a discussion, I don't consider this an argument. Like you said, we are all random people on the internet after all.

You're certainly welcome to continue to believe I'm being defensive... but, you never did answer my question.. how could I prove I'm not being defensive?

I'm not trying to prove that I'm right about a diagnosis. I'm trying to see if we have any common ground.

I'm trying to see if anyone has any good reasons to think that they know anything about NPD.

And it's very telling that I'm the only one talking about actual trusted sources and references vs opinion..

here's what I see going on...

Me: We need to agree on trusted sources of information about NPD if we are going to discuss it.

Everyone else: our opinions are what matters. our opinions are our trusted sources of information about NPD

You "have been" very patient. I have dealt with this type of challenge for 34 years. While, it is difficult, yes, in a way it is helpful too even though it doesn't seem like that to you. Did you really "win"? No not really tbh. You got really bold with how you were trying to point things out too, OMG, oh how I have done that myself countless times, did you see what happened anyway? Did it make a difference? No and what did it boil down to? Thread closings because of how things got out of the guidelines. Well, that happens similarly in my world/home/life. They say someone with NPD doesn't know they are NPD, well, the very same is true for ADHD too.

Honestly, this still leaves me at loss, however, in a way a comfort in seeing others get frustrated as I had been pretty much all my life too. And, it is a part of my PTSD that gets triggered where I can respond in unhealthy ways simply from all those years of trying to figure it out.

I cannot blame the individual either it is like having someone see red as blue and arguing about it as me seeing the red constantly and him seeing only blue.

A therapist really needs to "know" how to see it too, and quite frankly many just don't and can misdiagnose or misunderstand which helps "no one", especially not the patient who is trying to figure out why they are somehow "different" and tend to get into these kind of arguements.

Okay, well then it should be blatantly obvious by now that you have zero common ground with any of the other posters here.

Quoting various articles and such doesn't prove you know anything about NPD, it just proves you know how to use google.

As other posters here and myself have mentioned, personality disorders are still a huge unknown. That's a big part of why we rely on our personal experiences with these disorders instead of just wasting our time going over the diagnostic criteria which is really superficial and doesn't give the complete picture. The nine criteria for NPD are only scratching the surface, there's a lot more to it than that which you would know if you had actually seriously read Underground's posts.

Define what a "trusted source" is, if you don't mind?

I state my opinions only because guess what? I'm not an expert on NPD!

^is that the same thing as just claiming that you just know that you know more about the disorder than I do?

No. It really isn't. You're really misunderstanding my posts.

I'm interested in why it is you believe you know NPD's. In what context have you had a lot of experience with them?

My father is a diagnosed Narcissist. I grew up with him, so it's reasonable for me to say that I know a thing or two about people with NPD just based on that alone. And then add that to having an NPD ex, and a couple of NPD friends and there you go. Simple.

LOL. Sure... from your point of view...

Can you see it from my point of view? I have no idea who you are, really.

We've already established that diagnoses are sometimes wrong... and that not every T is competent... Were these people you know even diagnosed by MH professionals (I know you said your dad was.. what about the rest?)?

How did you determine they are, in fact, NPD?

One very obvious source of information is the DSM IV and DSM V. I would hope we can all agree that Heinz Kohut's writings on the subject are a reliable source of information.

You haven't really stated your point of view. You just keep quoting articles about NPD and implying that you think the other posters here think they "know it all".

The other Narcissists I've known haven't been diagnosed(which is very often the case with sufferers of NPD), but they act and think like my father does. So it's a logical conclusion to me that they likely have the disorder themselves.

As far as how I know, they all fit the diagnostic criteria you've posted here repeatedly.

As far as my point of view... I just mean that I have no idea why you believe you know these people have a NPD. All I know is that you believe they do.

I suspect you're probably right about your father... and he was diagnosed.. but, we've also established that there are varying degrees of severity... so, it stands to reason that there are some NPD's that don't exhibit the same severe behaviors that your father did.

Yeah, the other Narcissists that I've known are nowhere near as severe cases as my father is. He's on the upper end of the severity scale, I said it in the post about our childhoods that he falls into the malignant Narcissist category.

So, what about the others? What is it about them that makes you sure they have the disorder, even though they don't exhibit the same severe traits?