Anyone Else Under the Impression that Change Can Be Good?

This is hilarious.

You know, reading through this thread is like watching a citcom like "The Big Bang Theory".

Mttmx, the high functioning autisic spectrum came to my mind too, however, I am also considering ADHD too because how some of the patterns have matched my husband's patterns who has ADHD.

What parts of the inattention would contribute to these sorts of actions though? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this if you can elaborate.

. I do like to read about the topic. and found that it is thought there are varying degrees of severity...
Quote:
NPD interferes with people's functioning in their occupations and in their relationships:

Mild impairment when self-centered or egotistical behavior results in occasional minor problems, but the person is generally doing pretty well.

Moderate impairment when self-centered or egotistical behavior results in: (a) missing days from work, household duties, or school, (b) significant performance problems as a wage-earner, homemaker, or student, (c) frequently avoiding or alienating friends, (d) significant risk of harming self or others (frequent suicidal preoccupation; often neglecting family, or frequently abusing others or committing criminal acts).

Severe impairment when self-centered or egotistical behavior results in: (a) staying in bed all day, (b) totally alienating all friends and family, (c) severe risk of harming self or others (failing to maintain personal hygiene; persistent danger of suicide, abuse, or crime).
The information I'm finding is that the disorder is mainly defined by feelings of grandiosity.

Quote:
Narcissistic Personality Disorder

While grandiosity is the diagnostic hallmark of pathological narcissism, there is research evidence that pathological narcissism occurs in two forms, (a) a grandiose state of mind in young adults that can be corrected by life experiences, and (b) the stable disorder described in DSM-IV, which is defined less by grandiosity than by severely disturbed interpersonal relations.
Quote:
1. An exaggerated sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)


Translation: Grandiosity is the hallmark of narcissism. So what is grandiose?

The simplest everyday way that narcissists show their exaggerated sense of self-importance is by talking about family, work, life in general as if there is nobody else in the picture. Whatever they may be doing, in their own view, they are the star, and they give the impression that they are bearing heroic responsibility for their family or department or company, that they have to take care of everything because their spouses or co-workers are undependable, uncooperative, or otherwise unfit. They ignore or denigrate the abilities and contributions of others and complain that they receive no help at all; they may inspire your sympathy or admiration for their stoicism in the face of hardship or unstinting self-sacrifice for the good of (undeserving) others. But this everyday grandiosity is an aspect of narcissism that you may never catch on to unless you visit the narcissist's home or workplace and see for yourself that others are involved and are pulling their share of the load and, more often than not, are also pulling the narcissist's share as well. An example is the older woman who told me with a sigh that she knew she hadn't been a perfect mother but she just never had any help at all -- and she said this despite knowing that I knew that she had worn out and discarded two devoted husbands and had lived in her parents' pocket (and pocketbook) as long as they lived, quickly blowing her substantial inheritance on flaky business schemes. Another example is claiming unusual benefits or spectacular results from ordinary effort and investment, giving the impression that somehow the narcissist's time and money are worth more than other people's. [Here is an article about recognizing and coping with narcissism in the workplace; it is rather heavy on management jargon and psychobabble, but worth reading. "The Impact of Narcissism on Leadership and Sustainability" by Bruce Gregory, Ph.D. "When the narcissistic defense is operating in an interpersonal or group setting, the grandiose part does not show its face in public. In public it presents a front of patience, congeniality, and confident reasonableness."]

In popular usage, the terms narcissism, narcissist, and narcissistic denote absurd vanity and are applied to people whose ambitions and aspirations are much grander than their evident talents. Sometimes these terms are applied to people who are simply full of themselves -- even when their real achievements are spectacular. Outstanding performers are not always modest, but they aren't grandiose if their self-assessments are realistic; e.g., Muhammad Ali, then Cassius Clay, was notorious for boasting "I am the greatest!" and also pointing out that he was the prettiest, but he was the greatest and the prettiest for a number of years, so his self-assessments weren't grandiose. Some narcissists are flamboyantly boastful and self-aggrandizing, but many are inconspicuous in public, saving their conceit and autocratic opinions for their nearest and dearest. Common conspicuous grandiose behaviors include expecting special treatment or admiration on the basis of claiming (a) to know important, powerful or famous people or (b) to be extraordinarily intelligent or talented. As a real-life example, I used to have a neighbor who told his wife that he was the youngest person since Sir Isaac Newton to take a doctorate at Oxford. The neighbor gave no evidence of a world-class education, so I looked up Newton and found out that Newton had completed his baccalaureate at the age of twenty-two (like most people) and spent his entire academic career at Cambridge. The grandiose claims of narcissists are superficially plausible fabrications, readily punctured by a little critical consideration. The test is performance: do they deliver the goods? (There's also the special situation of a genius who's also strongly narcissistic, as perhaps Frank Lloyd Wright. Just remind yourself that the odds are that you'll meet at least 1000 narcissists for every genius you come across.)

Wow, I can think of a lot of different people that have many of these "traits" tbh.

I have been visiting this forum because I have been trying to figure it out Mattmx. I have been challenged with this my friggen entire life too with another person. But especially the past 34 years with my husband and my therapist after meeting him told me he immediately recognized the ADHD, which was always that missing part I just could not figure out. The need for grandiosity is definitely there as well as the "hidden" low self esteem issues that are discussed in the NPD criteria.

My therapist has been trying to help me understand that it is not really NPD, but the low self esteem that presents with ADHD, is compensated for in ways that do look like NPD.

Honestly?, I could have very well been a wife presenting to a counselor and the term "narcissist" would come up. And in a way it has, but luckily, I have a therapist who knows more about what to look for rather than just quickly affixing a quick label.

While I can see the aggrivation/frustration taking place, I have actually learned a great deal from all of you. However, it really does at times present like a citcom like the Big Bang Theory. I don't mean disrespect by that, but could not help thinking about it creatively like that.

No offense taken at all! It is a bit of a comical read to go back through that's for sure.

I know a lot of times grandiosity can be confused with a lack of proper understanding though. That's the case with lots of autistic people because to them they are right, but that's only because they lack the ability to see how things could be different. They'll have that low self esteem because they know something is wrong, but they don't have the cognitive ability to change see why, so that is in turn seen as just "always being right"

Yes, and that is very similar with ADHD too, at least how my husband presents it. Although, there are windows where my husband "does" comprehend sometimes too, whereas that doesn't seem to be the case with the autism spectrum. My husband also has dylexia too, and that also has challenges of it's own in terms of self esteem and ways that are developed to over come that as well.

I'm not sure what you mean....those don't seem like adhd traits at all to me (the things I stated)

Oh yes, I know what you mean, but with my husband who has these two learning disabilities, what is similar is a certain "lack" of "knowing" as well. My husband "has" achieved in spite of his learning disabilities, often I have noticed a need to exaggerate and be grandiose at times when it isn't really necessary at all. I have to be careful about how deep I get too as he simply cannot follow.

He does this a lot,

Another example is claiming unusual benefits or spectacular results from ordinary effort and investment, giving the impression that somehow the narcissist's time and money are worth more than other people's.

And this:
Sometimes these terms are applied to people who are simply full of themselves -- even when their real achievements are spectacular.

And this:
Whatever they may be doing, in their own view, they are the star, and they give the impression that they are bearing heroic responsibility for their family or department or company, that they have to take care of everything because their spouses or co-workers are undependable, uncooperative, or otherwise unfit.

And this: Some narcissists are flamboyantly boastful and self-aggrandizing, but many are inconspicuous in public, saving their conceit and autocratic opinions for their nearest and dearest.

Has done this too:The simplest everyday way that narcissists show their exaggerated sense of self-importance is by talking about family, work, life in general as if there is nobody else in the picture.

But my Husband doesn't lack empathy, but sometimes lacks because he can't see the whole picture too.

Not all aspects that are listed are present, but several are.

Now, that being said about my husband, he isn't what I would consider full NPD, instead I would say at this point thus far that he has a lot of narcissistic traits about him.

Honestly, I can sympatize with shakesphere's confusion.

I have seen several things on the list that describe others close to me too, but I don't want to just jump on this label as I think it's more complex than that.

See, that's wise of you OE. Just jumping on a label isn't a good idea, odds are you're not getting the complete picture if you just pick the nearest label that seems to fit what's going on with you. Like with NPD for example, there are so many other conditions that can mimic NPD traits that it's really unwise to label yourself as such until you have more information about all the variables involved in your psychological makeup.

I must say that I am very impressed with what I feel is a great deal of patience expressed here considering what is supposed to be "lack of empathy" in these disorders.

The fact that I could find "humor" in reading all these exchanges is a bit of a milestone for me personally as I have been suffering from this often very crippling PTSD challenge. The fact that I could see it in a creative light, is a very promising sign in my own healing too. That part of me has not been there for a while now, something that seems to happen with PTSD for some reason.

Yes, I agree with you 100%. People who develop PTSD have also been labeled with having Narcissistic Traits too. The anger and self absorbtion is often confused, even by psychiatrists/psychologists that don't really understand the red flags for ptsd. If there is a history of trauma or traumas, it is very important to spend time with a therapist that really specializes in this area. Not every child that experiences childhood trauma will develop into someone with NPD either. BPD can present with a lot of Narcissitic Traits too, however, they are now learning to recognize that children growing up in an environment that is very dysfunctional often develop ptsd symptoms and adapt to these symptoms not realizing the challenges they have are not normal.

My husband was never diagnosed and when he was a child ADHD was not recognized so the children that struggled were helped, the same is true for dyslexia, along with many other learning disabilities.

So much has been learned just in the last ten years alone. I pounded the pavement asking for help years ago, my therapist tells me "It just was not there" for you. At one point I sat with a family counselor who explained to me that because my husband began using drugs and alcohol around age 12/13 that his maturity level was around that age. Nothing was mentioned about ADHD at all. Now that I think of it this way, this is probably where these traits that I have been seeing developed too or became part of his coping mechanisms, but are not really NPD. I cannot say my husband doesn't have empathy. NPD on the spectrum is actually a small number which is what my therapist has been explaining to me.

I feel that getting a second opinion is important and preferable from a professional that really knows and understands trauma as well as different learning disorders too.

shakesphere, your title asks if anyone else is under the impression that change can be good. Yes, people can makes changes that can bring more positive results in the quality of their lives and getting along with others too. If you consider this site with all the different challenges on it, everyone is asking "what about me" and wanting to find a change that can be "good". You are going to meet a lot of different people and all of these people will ask questions in different ways that are saying "what about me", that is how human beings are whether they have empathy or not.

UH. no. you are wrong. As I've said many times I don't know for sure if I have truly have the disorder or not.. the point I'm making is none of you know for sure that anyone has the disorder...

and I'm amused that some appear to think that they not only KNOW they have the disorder.. they also KNOW for sure whether or not other posters have the disorder..

That was my point.

I'm still not convinced anyone I've ever met in this forum actually has a NPD.

What do you think? are you sure that anyone has the disorder? How do you know?

I'm a skeptic who needs to be convinced. I'm still not sure anyone here really knows how to determine if someone truly has a NPD. Do you?

Mattmx appears to be claiming that he has the extraordinary ability to diagnose people over the internet. That is an extraordinary claim. Can he back up that claim with extraordinary evidence?

hmm.. now that's interesting... My last T did mention ADHD, and read me the diagnosing criteria... I definitely see it. And I've taken several self-tests online and scored rather high. It surprised me because no one had ever mentioned it before.

I'm just not sure what to do about it. Do I really even need to take the time to get an official diagnosis? I don't want to take drugs... I did order the book
Driven to Distraction (Revised): Recognizing and Coping with Attention Deficit Disorder

Edward M. Md Hallowell, John J. Md Ratey

but, haven't had the time to read it.

Good morning, it's a new day and a new way. So let's have at it...... The UNDERGROUND is finally here again. No worries!!

Why aren't you convinced that seriously nobody in this forum has "a NPD"?

In my opinion Underground definitely has the disorder, but I don't care if I'm right or wrong. His way of speaking and thinking just happens to line up with every other Narcissist I've known, hence my reasons for thinking he has the disorder. But I'm just a person online, I don't know what's going on inside of anyone's head for sure. I can only respond to what I see, which isn't much.

I don't know what your problem is shakespeare and I'm honestly confused by your posts. What is it that you're hoping to gain by posting here anyway? All of us here have tried to respond to you, but you always slap our thoughts about what you have said away before you even think about it. I don't get it. Now if I'm wrong and you're actually listening, by all means, correct me.

As far as how to determine if someone truly has "a NPD", that's a difficult proposition at best. I was misdiagnosed with it so it's obvious MH professionals don't always get it right.

I think Underground is a Narcissist because he thinks and writes like other Narcissists I've met(but of course he has is own unique style and personality, because he is a person, not just a disorder). It's as simple as that.

You see the affect we have on others..... And then people wonder why we think we are all so great, pretty simple. WE ARE!!! Oh yeah and your welcome OE!!! Enjoy the show cause there is much more to come so stay tuned....

Good morning Atypical.... I appreciate the last paragraph with keeping me as unique and my own-self. Well done as always!!! You see I take no offense to the label she calls me. I do not argue or boast. I instead say hello, nice to see you today. Most of us here have ISSUES and we still get along so well. Guess you picked the wrong side of the tracks my friend. Process of elimination seems likely here. However it also seems the more people who say no, you find the need to say yes even louder. Almost like a child when something is taken from him.

Good morning Underground! You're welcome, you are a unique person and to reduce you to simply a disorder wouldn't be doing you justice at all. Sure you're a Narcissist, but there's a lot more to you than that. Getting hung up on labels just isn't healthy, you are who you are. There's no reason to argue, boast, etc like you said so well.

Isn't it funny how we are the ones who get told off for our lack of empathy and such and yet we all can get along here so well and find some commonalities? Sure we both have different disorders, but it's still obvious that we're on the same page unlike some others here.

I just realized that one of my posts (that has been locked, shocker) has the most amount of replies in this room (Can't say i'm surprised)ha ha ha ha. That must annoy you shakey cause that means I am the BEST and most interesting one here. You write constantly starting new threads probably close to a 20/1 ratio in comparison to me. People just want to respond so much more to me than you. What does this tell you? It tells me that I am WINNING!!!!!

I'm just challenging the assumptions of those here.... Perhaps I was wrong.... but, what I saw was a deep-seated belief among regular posters that you just KNOW who has the disorder and who doesn't.

As an outsider... I just don't buy into that belief. I need to be convinced.

To me you all are just random people on the internet who appear to be sure that you KNOW who has the disorder and who doesn't.

And I was surprised to find very few references to just how one does find out. There weren't any references to trusted sources. There were merely claims like "we know NPD's do x.. but not y.. if you do y, then you're not NPD".

So... I'd still like to know... just what are the trusted sources of information about NPD? Are they just the impressions and experience of regular posters?

Same page??? Different book, different library!!! HA HA HA

Dear moderators,

I find this room to be very disturbing and offensive. I would appreciate it if you would so kindly lock it down while you discuss with your team to see if it has broken any rules.

Sincerely,
The Underground