How do you know how much time your OCD traits take up? This is question I often see in relation to OCD (in addition to level of distress/functioning -how intrusive is it in your life of course) and can't for the life of me figure out how people figure that out.

Why? So far I've recognized three problems I'd have in answering such a question. One is that I have no sense of time. People think I'm joking, until they see it for themselves. After the umpteenth time of being asked -if I even care or actually need to know- what time/day/month it is etc, they get it. (One of my favorite Steven Wright jokes is "Four years ago... Oh wait. It was yesterday." )

Two. The issue of so often doing things without necessarily being aware of them, because they are so ingrained. Some of them may even seem normal, through being such familiar and subconscious things, you know? So. For example. Yes, I'm aware of things I count. But how aware am I really about checking, rechecking, or being compelled to think, re-think things over and over, convinced I will miss something. Or editing a post. Over and over. How much time does this take up? I don't know, because I don't even realize I'm doing it, until maybe hours have gone by till it's just right.

Three. Some things take up time all by themselves. Other times there is multi-tasking, like the think, re-think thing that nearly never stops.

How on earth does one calculate how much time these things take up? The time taken/disruption to normal functioning in observable actions may be more obvious to others, but what about the rest? Am I missing something?

(I should mention that I'm not - currently at least- dx'd with OCD.)

[Perna]

I would just do a general thing with time if you have trouble with time in and of itself?

Are you often late to appointments with others (work, meetings, medical appointments, visiting friends when a "time" is giving, etc.)? Why? If it is because you are doing other things, like checking or other OCD things, then I'd say there was a too "much" time problem.

There's really no such thing as multi-tasking; one can do really fast serial tasking but you cannot attend to more than one thing at a time. If you are talking on the phone and making dinner, for example; you have to switch your attention back and forth; you can't truly listen and respond to the person on the phone and do much else besides "stir" the pot; you can't be thinking about what temperature to set the oven at and listen, your brain can't do it, can't think "proper over temperature" and "friend's son Johnny is in trouble at school again" both in the same thought space!

A lot of thinking problems is not working to direct one's thinking; no one can know what they are going to think "next" so we can't "control" our thinking but we can direct it; if we think X we can decide to keep thinking about X or to go on to another thought. Sometimes it can be really hard to keep a thought in our head and keep developing that thought ("dinner prep") especially if it is not something we particularly want to do or if we find it boring, but it is possible. The whole txting/drive car thing is an effort to multi-task and we know how that doesn't work in that instance, despite some idiots' beliefs they can do it.

If one is doing repetitive tasks that one does not want to do; one is aware of the "time" it is taking (presumably because one would rather be doing "something else"). If you are trying to go to work or bed but have to check the stove or the door locks over and over, there's a sense of frustration about doing so. If you do not have any sense of frustration in what you are doing, do not wish you were elsewhere because you are not aware, then, if you are doing things for "too long" it is probably another problem, one of awareness rather than compulsion?

[BlessedRhiannon]

Ya know, I was just talking about this whole "time" thing with my T. We were talking about one of my compulsive activities, and I was expressing how frustrating it's been for me to try and get help. Previous T's always asked me how much time I spent on the activity, and I'd give a guess, but I really had no clue. My current T nodded her head and told me that it's because I'm dissociating when I engage in the activity! Finally, someone gets it! She's exactly correct...I do dissociate when I'm engaged in the compulsive activity. I lose chunks of time. It's not like I know I'm losing time and want to stop so I can go do something else...I really have no clue how much time is passing. Usually, something happens to snap me out of the compulsive activity, and I'm often shocked at how much time has passed. Then I get angry at myself for losing so much time that I could have spent doing something else...but in the moment, I'm not aware of time passing.

I am also a really bad judge of time. I'm rarely late for things, because I make sure to give myself double the amount of time I think I'm going to need to get somewhere, or I will use google maps to figure out how long it should take me to get somewhere. But, if someone just asks me how long it takes me to go somewhere or how long a task will take, or something, I have no concept of an accurate estimation of time. One of my friends always asks me when I give her a time frame "is that in "Rhi time" or everyone else's time." She then doubles whatever estimate I've given her, knowing that's closer to how long something will really take.

[Thimble]

For me it is the time issue that drives me over the edge. The OCD behaviour doesn't bother me....but the time it takes when I have so many other things to do does. And that makes me feel "not normal".

For instance, to buy groceries, I cannot pick produce - so it takes me forever and I get angry glares from the the store staff in charge of the section. I just can't pick the right one for all the criteria I have, and bad things will happen if I don't get the right ones. Then when I get home and have to put the groceries away, it takes me 1.5 - 2.0 hours. It is ridiculous. Because I have to sort through the produce - pick through it leaf by leaf, stem by stem, to make sure what I put in the fridge isn't going to make the rest go bad, and to ensure the precise spot I place everything prevents it from going bad (because bad things will happen if this food doesn't last). Then I have to recheck what I "threw out" that it really was bad because of all the other bad things I fear will happen if I waste what I bought.

And that is just one specific item....added up with all the other OCD things I "have" to do....yes, because I am always watching the clock because I am always running late and never have enough time to get everything I need to do done, I can quantify them all. And the anxiety of the ticking time causes me 10x the stress of the OCD thing I am worrying about.

But I definitely see your position as well - when it is just built-in, encompassing your daily life routines, how do you break it out separately and a put a "number" on it.

Originally Posted by Perna

...Are you often late to appointments with others (work, meetings, medical appointments, visiting friends when a "time" is giving, etc.)? Why? If it is because you are doing other things, like checking or other OCD things, then I'd say there was a too "much" time problem.

Yes. All the 'yeah, I should do this that and the other. There's *got* to be time, because I need to do it, or can't actually leave. Or walk out door, and come back in repeatedly just to make sure. Again. And again. The option being actually leaving, but if I haven't done them, I CANNOT stop thinking about them and that something terrible will happen. More than once, this has caused me to turn around even after getting enroute. Inevitably to find that in fact the thing *is* done. Or a memorable one of waking up, going 'round and 'round that the door where I worked might not be locked -- it wasn't even a day I worked, so it wasn't even that it was me that could have forgotten it -- drove across town in my pjs just to make sure. Because I knew sleep was a lost cause if I didn't (not to mention that if I thought this and didn't do it, there would be a disaster). I didn't want to be doing it, but I had to.
The only real exception to being late is my current job. I absolutely can't afford to lose it, and being late is non-negotiable. It took a lot of effort, so to compensate, I leave super-early, yet am still completely anxious that I will get lost, even if I've gone there several/numerous times. (If a mistake is made there will be disaster because of it and I'll become super anxious should I get turned around at all, despite having Google Mapping, writing down *and* having a thorough map. Not infrequently to the point of complete meltdown where I can't think or even see straight.)

There's really no such thing as multi-tasking; one can do really fast serial tasking but you cannot attend to more than one thing at a time...

Yeah, I understand what you're saying here... it certainly is an illusion most of the time. My job absolutely requires attention to many dangerous things at once (so I am a serious swivel-head, lol) To actually focus on only one thing at a time can literally be life threatening. So though I think of it as multi-tasking (and in a sense it is), it could probably also be seen as super-rapid serial tasking.
I guess the thing I was thinking of most was more the "tapes that nearly never stop" in my mind running simultaneously with so many other activities (rarely in above case though as it takes THAT much concentration).

... so we can't "control" our thinking but we can direct it; if we think X we can decide to keep thinking about X or to go on to another thought. Sometimes it can be really hard to keep a thought in our head and keep developing that thought ...

Hard indeed. I have a lot of problem with staying on thought, my mind jumps around so badly to the point I can't remember what I just thought, no matter how "brilliant" (but that is probably something else altogether...) it seemed at that moment.

...If you are trying to go to work or bed but have to check the stove or the door locks over and over, there's a sense of frustration about doing so. If you do not have any sense of frustration in what you are doing, do not wish you were elsewhere because you are not aware, then, if you are doing things for "too long" it is probably another problem, one of awareness rather than compulsion?

Frustration yes. Especially in regards to having to jump out of bed over and over because my mind just won't shut up. (Last night was just such a night and it went on at least half the night. I really wanted to be in bed and asleep, but couldn't.

Originally Posted by BlessedRhiannon

... My current T nodded her head and told me that it's because I'm dissociating when I engage in the activity! Finally, someone gets it! She's exactly correct...I do dissociate when I'm engaged in the compulsive activity. I lose chunks of time. It's not like I know I'm losing time and want to stop so I can go do something else...I really have no clue how much time is passing. Usually, something happens to snap me out of the compulsive activity, and I'm often shocked at how much time has passed...
I am also a really bad judge of time. I'm rarely late for things, because I make sure to give myself double the amount of time I think I'm going to need to get somewhere, or I will use google maps to figure out how long it should take me to get somewhere. But, if someone just asks me how long it takes me to go somewhere or how long a task will take, or something, I have no concept of an accurate estimation of time...

Relate to this. I'm working hard on applying the leave super-early strategy (when it's particularly time-sensitive --see above). Like you, I'm not even aware that I'm losing time until after that fact. Then I don't even usually remember when I started, so am still not aware of how much time has passed(!) Having read in the past questions about losing chunks of time etc, I usually thought, "no, not really", because I thought they meant as in wandering down the street and having no recollection of it whatsoever. For me, it's very rarely like that, but very often like what you describe. (Still... one of my favorite lines from a song is "How did I GET Here?!" )
I always Google Map and multiply by 3!
Thanks for your responses Perna and BlessedRhiannon! It's just always felt so hard to measure after so many years of not-always-consciously doing certain things because they were so ingrained. Guess it's also a matter of becoming aware of the auto-pilot ones so to speak to get a fuller picture.

[BlessedRhiannon]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

It's just always felt so hard to measure after so many years of not-always-consciously doing certain things because they were so ingrained. Guess it's also a matter of becoming aware of the auto-pilot ones so to speak to get a fuller picture.

Yup - it's very hard to measure how long something takes when you're really not even aware of doing it. It's one of the things my therapist has had me start working on...just being aware of these "automatic" behaviors.

Originally Posted by Thimble

For me it is the time issue that drives me over the edge. The OCD behaviour doesn't bother me....but the time it takes when I have so many other things to do does. And that makes me feel "not normal".

For instance, to buy groceries, I cannot pick produce - so it takes me forever and I get angry glares from the the store staff in charge of the section. I just can't pick the right one for all the criteria I have, and bad things will happen if I don't get the right ones. Then when I get home and have to put the groceries away, it takes me 1.5 - 2.0 hours. It is ridiculous. Because I have to sort through the produce - pick through it leaf by leaf, stem by stem, to make sure what I put in the fridge isn't going to make the rest go bad, and to ensure the precise spot I place everything prevents it from going bad (because bad things will happen if this food doesn't last). Then I have to recheck what I "threw out" that it really was bad because of all the other bad things I fear will happen if I waste what I bought.

And that is just one specific item....added up with all the other OCD things I "have" to do....yes, because I am always watching the clock because I am always running late and never have enough time to get everything I need to do done, I can quantify them all. And the anxiety of the ticking time causes me 10x the stress of the OCD thing I am worrying about.

But I definitely see your position as well - when it is just built-in, encompassing your daily life routines, how do you break it out separately and a put a "number" on it.

Thanks so much for responding, Thimble! Sorry I didn't see your post till later, as we wrote in such close proximity. Right after writing, I ran out the door to my BP support group (so as not to be late!) So because my post was slightly later, it didn't come up on subscribed threads - ack! Was so glad to have come back to re-read and think on what everyone has written, so I could see yours!

sssssssssss to you! Yeah, it makes sense that the behavior itself doesn't bother you, but the time factor does. That's one of the criteria for about any MI dx, after all, isn't it? How much disruption and distress it causes.

Hope this is not an obnoxious question, but.... we watch a lot of Monk here. My BF calls me Monk as a nickname, though it is a stretch. There is a relatability. Besides the obvious oft-repeated actions, I will always see the other ones coming or say his thinking before it comes out. I just "get it", even if it is not one I personally experience. Ok, so here's the question... Do you find it hard to watch on account of a greater level of relatabilty (in terms of actions), or because the actions themselves don't bother you, is it ok? Because we only see the actions, not the time factor or how that affects him emotionally. In fact, I've often wondered about the time thing, on sheer amazement at how much he does get done despite it. (Yeah, it's a tv show, so...). Again, I hope this is not an obnoxious question. I love the show for a number of reasons -- first that he is portrayed as a highly likeable character, when so many media portrayals showing MI characters are so inaccurate or downright insulting. (I have Bipolar and have yet to see a portrayal that doesn't make me want to scream.) Besides, he is brilliant.

On the groceries, our experience is different. And interesting. On veggies, I will stand there and stare, waiting for the "right" piece to speak to me. Not audibly, but still... Also was a memorable incident involving chicken. One day I went to cook some and it smelled wrong to me. Despite the fact that it was one of the busiest days of the year (at a store known for being extremely busy all the time), I had to go take it back. Right then. And even on the best of days, I have issues with busy stores or going out or dealing with people or making a fuss! (Except when hypomanic, when I will raise hell). (Ipod is my friend, and I never leave the house w/o it, and still it is hard.) I have an immutable routine of taking the grocery list and re-writing it so that everything is clustered into a specific path through the store. Then put all the items on the belt by type. Cold, cans, boxes etc. Then bag them very quickly in like manner and unload them at home the same way. So it is very fast, but...

Here's another question for everyone... One of the things that causes me stress is that if I don't do something, I think terrible things will happen, despite all evidence to the contrary. That it doesn't help at all. For a quick example, I always rinse my face a certain number of times, thinking for instance that I will have a terrible day if I don't. But I have many terrible days despite this routine. Is this common?

[Thimble]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

For a quick example, I always rinse my face a certain number of times, thinking for instance that I will have a terrible day if I don't. But I have many terrible days despite this routine. Is this common?

Do you need some help rationalizing that - I will tell myself...yea but think how much WORSE it would have been had I not done it!! So if I thought the day was bad even though I "protected" myself with the ritual, can you imagine what it would have been like if I hadn't?? Ok...I'm not helping right!! Perhaps I'm just pointing out that one's mind can twist things every which way to justify behaviours.....

[SingDanceRunLife]

How do I know? Well I know what things I do that are because of my OCD, and I know about how much time each of those things take...

On my best days, my OCD probably takes up about 45 minutes to an hour, and on my worst, I would guess up to about 2 hours.

[lizardlady]

My current T nodded her head and told me that it's because I'm dissociating when I engage in the activity! Finally, someone gets it! She's exactly correct...I do dissociate when I'm engaged in the compulsive activity. I lose chunks of time. It's not like I know I'm losing time and want to stop so I can go do something else...I really have no clue how much time is passing. Usually, something happens to snap me out of the compulsive activity, and I'm often shocked at how much time has passed.

Rhiannon, thank you, thank you THANK YOU! for saying this! I never heard anyone else say this before. Inside my head I feel the same way when I pick as I used to when I dissociated. I've wondered if the picking was a different way of dissociating. I've got to think about this...

Originally Posted by SingDanceRunLife

How do I know? Well I know what things I do that are because of my OCD, and I know about how much time each of those things take...

On my best days, my OCD probably takes up about 45 minutes to an hour, and on my worst, I would guess up to about 2 hours.

Ahhh yes, but this is my problem. So many of my "things" are part of something else, and with no sense of time as it is...
What percentage of the activity is "too much"? (And when does it cross over into too much? Being a fine line with "thoroughness" and all.)

Hehe, here's another way to look at it. Say someone says "I exercise two hours a day". That's pretty clear. If I were to spend two hours on purely OCD tendencies, it would be easier to state. It's the mixed in with given activities part (and no sense of time) that confuses me.

(Btw... thimble? I really really really hope I didn't step over a line or be in any way insensitive with the Monk question. I really am intrigued over the "activity" vs "stress over the time factor of the activity" question.)

[Thimble]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

Do you find it hard to watch on account of a greater level of relatabilty (in terms of actions), or because the actions themselves don't bother you, is it ok?

Hi Innerzone - no worries at all!! I wasn't in any way offended - I haven't watched Monk but will make a point to look for it now! I do know that when watching Obsessed on A&E that I can totally relate to those and it doesn't trigger me at all to see the behaviours. It is just like me sitting back and going oh yea, I can totally see me falling into the same obsessive behaviour if x,y,z had happened to me in the past (as they seem to usually be post-trauma based scenarios that I have seen). And I am always so impressed with the exposure therapies they agree to because I would be like no way!!! Dream on if you think I"m doing that! I'd rather live with the disruption from the repetitive behaviour. Does that kind of answer the question, even though I used a different show? Yea, I'd have to say doing ritual behaviours don't cause me the upset - it is the loss of time that distresses me.

[SingDanceRunLife]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

Ahhh yes, but this is my problem. So many of my "things" are part of something else, and with no sense of time as it is...
What percentage of the activity is "too much"? (And when does it cross over into too much? Being a fine line with "thoroughness" and all.)

Hehe, here's another way to look at it. Say someone says "I exercise two hours a day". That's pretty clear. If I were to spend two hours on purely OCD tendencies, it would be easier to state. It's the mixed in with given activities part (and no sense of time) that confuses me.

(Btw... thimble? I really really really hope I didn't step over a line or be in any way insensitive with the Monk question. I really am intrigued over the "activity" vs "stress over the time factor of the activity" question.)

I'm only counting things that are obvious...taking a shower and doing my hair, getting dressed, getting ready for bed...those things.