[teary_me]

Today out of no where there was a knock at the door. i was in bed sleeping but got woken up by talking. My Psychiartrist an Psychologist and some other lady i dont know who is showed up at my house and asked for me but dad said i was asleep. They started talking to dad and asked if 20 questions about if i cry, if im socialising, if i sleep all day, if i talk to him, and what i do. Dad said we don't speak much as i keep to myself. They went on telling dad how im going to see SARC which is a sexual abuse concelling service here. Dad didnt know about it. Hell, they didnt even know who i was abused by or what happened as i hadn't got that far with them yet, so for all they knew he could have been my abuser. They could have put me in danger. Dont they need my permission to talk to dad about that? Is it a breach? I didnt even know they were coming. Dad said he thought i was coping and was fine. i hide things from him so he wouldnt know otherwise, an they said they disagreed an thought i was struggling. They asked him about my suicidal thought. Dad DIDNT know anything about it. i feel as though ive been violated all over again. i dont know what to do. im seriously considering not having any councelling cos im scared the trust will be broken again. im so angry an hurt this happened as now dads been asking questions an i feel like my every move is being watched an questioned.
PLEASE HELP what do i do please any suggestions.
Do you think this was a breach of confidenitality?
Or am i overreacting?

[Shangrala]

Teary ~
YOU ARE NOT OVERREACTING!!

Although I am far from a legal consultant, or even with much legal knowledge, your rights have been violated! As simple as that, and you have every right to feel violated.

Perhaps it would be best for you to immediately disolve any further contact with those people.
It is apparent that your already existing trust issues are now further reinforced by those who you believed you were safe with.

I feel helpless and very limited. I'm so unfamiliar to how the laws work, however, it is only apparent that there was a breech in patient/doctor confidentiality here.
You have been violated in more ways than one here.

Does anyone else have something to provide Teary to point her in the right direction with this?

Have patience, Teary. I'm sure that someone can help you.

I'm here for you......

Shangrala

[MisanthropicOne]

My suggestion is to contact your local mental health rights advocacy group and explain what occurred to them. Advocacy groups have a lot of resources when it comes to situations like this.

[Elysium]

NO...YOU ARE NOT OVER-REACTING!!

This was a blatant violation of your rights to privacy. There are laws (HIPPA) that regulates the information that a provider can give to another person legally. I am not sure of your age, but if you are an adult, you have a major violation on your hands.

I agree that contacting a mental health advocate would be good. I would also suggest calling the Medical Board, and Board of Psychologists in your State and filing complaints immediately. Don't just tell them about it, but ask to file a legitimate legal complaint.

It is also your right to know who else was with them, and what role she is supposedly playing in your care. Whatever Board regulates this persons license should also be notified and a complaint should be filed.

These are very real issues and behavior, such as this, on the part of the practitioners must be stopped. Do not feel poorly about standing up for yourself.

You can also contact an attorney that deals with mental health issues and possibly even malpractice since your psychiatrist is an MD.

This is probably overwhelming for you. And you don't have to do anything about it if you don't want to. But you do have the right to do it, as your rights were violated!!

Good luck, and keep us posted if you like.

[yutzman]

I found a very good article on this....Kind of legaleeze though.. hope it helps...good luck
http://privacy.med.miami.edu/glossary/xd_minors.htm

[AAAAA]

Since I'm not familiar with your age or location it's hard to say if any rules have been broken. If you are a minor or signed a release these people may have handled the situation incorrectly but legally. I'm a very private person but I have to say there has to be a balance between privacy and safety. I am alive today because someone broke my confidence. There are a lot of tough questions in real life, very little black and white and a huge gray area.

I think the best approach in this situation is to take the bull by the horns and ask these individuals directly why they handled this in this manner. Make it clear that you saw this a violation of your trust and that it may negatively affect your future recovery because of this trust issue.

[Catherine2]

Teary.
I'm so very sorry that this has happened to you...
Others have given you advice that you can follow up on as soon as you can.
I'd like to ask if you gave any of them written permission to contact a specific family member or friend. Rather like an emergency contact...especially if you were a danger to yourself or another person.
Do check in with the mental health advocacy group/NAMI. They will be able to at least advise you of any pertinent state or federal laws.

It's highly unusual for a home visit like this--are you in the States?
If not there will still be resources to help you.
The fact that they left without pursuing further action is troubling and certainly does not follow any professional standards...I don't think that much has changed since I left the mental health field.

Please keep posting, Teary, and let us know how you are doing, ok?
Chat or PM anyone who you feel comfortable talking with...
Posting here will also help get those feelings out, and you'll receive support and encouragement from us.

Best wishes,
Catherine

[emilyjeanne]

Hello,

I'm curious. Teary how old are you? If you are under age, a T is required to report any abuse to the authorities. That might have been the reason for the visit.

If you are older than 18 I agree with the others. Your privacy was violated.

Yes, I agree your age is very significant (though the demeanor & actions of these people was so outrageous regardless) & also did you SIGN any forms that allowed them to talk to your parents or others if you are of legal age, perhaps without realizing it (another thing to pursue if you were misled or badgered into signing something).

I would definitely contact NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) to see if they can get someone to advocate for you.

If you are a danger to yourself or others, this surpasses everything--but from your post you don't suggest that that is the case. I need to be able to freely talk to my therapist & meds provider about what I am feeling & thinking without fear so they can HELP me. If I had to worry about them barging in & doing something like this, you can be sure I would not tell the truth about any paranoid thoughts or suicidal ideation or anything other than Polly Anna thoughts... Believe me, if I could not trust them to hold my stuff in confidence. And I have not signed a release for my husband, but I have for my therapist & meds provider & internal medicine doc to speak to each other.

I tell them the TRUTH. If I am dangerously suicidal, I call. I've made a promise, a pact. I trust them. They trust me. That is the way it has to be. You do not have a relationship of trust going on here.

I am so sorry for your experience. How awful & scary & traumatic. Let us know what happened. Contact NAMI & get some help & support & get rid of these people who are invading your life, unless you are in a suicidal condition--then everyone has to do whatever means are necessary.

All my best--Suzy

[inkblot]

You have rights no matter what your age! If you were deemed "a significant danger to yourself or others" they would have contacted local emergency authorities and you'd have been taken to the hospital. If you are young enough to still be considered a minor in the state where you live, the doctors could have a right to talk to a legal parent or guardian, however they must NOT mention anything specific about what you tell during therapy sessions.

You definitely need to follow up on this. I would feel violated as well!!!

[Catherine2]

Originally Posted by inkblot

You have rights no matter what your age! If you were deemed "a significant danger to yourself or others" they would have contacted local emergency authorities and you'd have been taken to the hospital. If you are young enough to still be considered a minor in the state where you live, the doctors could have a right to talk to a legal parent or guardian, however they must NOT mention anything specific about what you tell during therapy sessions.

You definitely need to follow up on this. I would feel violated as well!!!

Inkblot, how are you now? Please keep us updated...
Know that many people here are standing with you about this situation.

Inkblot,
I agree contacting emergency personnel would have been the proper procedure re significant danger to self/others.
As far as I know, home visits by mental health professionals are not done in the states...at least not the combo of pdoc, T, and a stranger.
My concern is also that they talked with the father, and he did seem surprised. In a way, his surprise may be a way of saying he is not the abuser, but I have no knowledge of what may be going on. Jmo, of course

Teary, I sincerely hope that you follow the advice you've read here.
Trust has been broken, it has set you back, and you definitely need to empower yourself...
Please take good care of you,
Catherine

[teary_me]

just to make it clear as i seem to be getting the same messages, but im 22 an live in australia. i only signed something saying they can all talk to each other about me. ive mentioned to them before that dad doesnt know anything as i dont speak him.
i also dont think that i was at risk as i NEVER told them if i have thoughts or anything.
thank you all for your help.

[silentandscared]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Teary }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

my heart goes out to you, to me this was a serious breech of your rights and confidentiality. The advice that people have sent re contacting an advocate would to me be the road that you should follow for the futrue of any counselling or being honest with these people and trusting them ever again. I'm ot sure how its works over there but for me my first step would be
1.contact my mental health advocate
2.request from your T and pdoc who the third person was
3.write a formal letter requesting an explainantion of their actions with the help of your adocate
4.follow the formal complaints procedures( this will not only empower you but hopefully it will prevent any further breeches for youor anyone else.

As far as the fact that now your dad is watching your every mood, i'm so so sorry. Unfortunately now he has the information l suppose he will worry and may also feel a little guilty that he didnt know that all this was how you was feeling. The extent of what they told him about you was a disgrace, for all they knew he could have been the person you had been referring to.
Teary know we are here for you ans as l have said to you before , pm me if you want to talk further................good luck with following this through
but KNOW this YOU ARE NOT over reacting and it is no wonder that you feel that you have been violated......because your rights have been
take care of you and stay safe
love mandyxx

[Zorah]

((((((teary)))))))
you are of legal age
contact the Medical Ombudsman for WA
they have breached their duty of care, & your confidentiality

here are some links
Health Consumers’ Council
Provides individual health and systemic advocacy, information and advice regarding health services.
Telephone: 08 9221 3422
Telephone: 1800 620 780 (freecall)
Website: www.hcc-wa.asn.au

Mental Health Law Centre
Provides a free and confidential legal service to people who are involved involuntarily in the mental health system.
Telephone: 08 9328 8266
Telephone: 1800 620 285 (freecall)
Website: www.mhlcwa.org.au

Ombudsman (Commonwealth)
Investigates complaints about Commonwealth Departments and Agencies.
Website: www.comb.gov.au

Ombudsman (State)
Investigates complaints about State and Local Government administration.
Website: www.ombudsman.wa.gov.au

Privacy Commissioner
Investigates complaints about breaches of privacy.
Website: www.privacy.gov.au

Medical Board under the Medical Act 1894.
8th Floor, London House
216 St Georges Terrace
PERTH WA 6000
Telephone: 08 9481 1011
Website: www.wa.medicalboard.com.au

Psychologists Board of Western Australia under the Psychologists Registration Act 1976.
2nd Floor, 15 Rheola St
WEST PERTH WA 6005
Telephone: 08 9321 8499
Website: www.psychboard.wa.gov.au

[GrayNess]

Teary, as you are 22 years old, I assume in Australia that legal age to be considered an adult is 18 (or maybe even 21). Regardless, you are legally an adult, thus, if you are capable of giving informed consent, then they legally must ask you.

BUT, questioning your father is LEGAL, as it is covered by the freedom of speech. Questioning as they did is legal. However, proceeding to say that you see SARC and telling them of your conditions is a breach of confidentiality. I make the distinction because if you wish to inquire, one is legal, one may not be.

Before doing anything or contacting anything/one, ask for the paper(s) you signed. Read them, possibly get a copy (I assume they need a copy/original). If you signed something permitting them to tell a related family member (i.e. father), then regardless of how much you have told him, then they are legally permitted. But, if no such clause exists in the papers you signed, or nothing similar, then you have checked yourself then check the laws of Australia. If nothing is permitted there, then you may be able to legally do some action.

I don't know how it works in Australia, however, I am sure that there is a board to contact. Bring the papers you signed, your father (need him or else it's going to be harder and you'll quote someone not present, which likely would leave you nowhere, so bring the father and anyone else whom at that time, may have heard what took place). Get them to look over the policy to make sure, look over Australian laws, talk to the father and you. If all of that checks out, then you sit there, smile from ear-to-ear because you've taken the legal precautions and are in the right.

BUT, I'm not a lawyer nor a law student, so don't take what I say to be 100% true.

[deliquesce]

^ whilst it may be legal, it is certainly unethical for any psychiatrist or psychologist in Australia to talk to (or question) anyone about your mental health unless under court order, or in cases where you are a threat to yourself and/or others. what they did was unprofessional and is enough to get both of them investigated by their respective professional bodies.

you can report both of them to the state authority, if you would like, teary. i'm so sorry they messed up like that. i have absolutely no idea why they would do something so stupid.

[GrayNess]

Posing the questions may be unethical, however, as long as the questions are not directly specifying details about the patient, then it would not violate the confidentiality (I think) and is still inside the freedom of speech.

Asking the father: "how long has [patient] been seeing the SARC and working with the SARC for?", that would be a breach of confidentiality. However, asking: "what kind, if any, hallucinations does [patient] experience" is not a breach of confidentiality (hypothetical question, Teary may not have hallucinations but hopefully you get the idea). The first question may be unethical, second question I think is ethical.

Now, TELLING the father of the patient's progress and such I do believe is not only unethical but may also be illegal. Even if you make it as a question, such as: "[Patient] has been seeing SARC for 10 months, correct [father's name]?", is a breach of confidentiality.

[deliquesce]

Originally Posted by GrayNess

Asking the father: "how long has [patient] been seeing the SARC and working with the SARC for?", that would be a breach of confidentiality. However, asking: "what kind, if any, hallucinations does [patient] experience" is not a breach of confidentiality (hypothetical question, Teary may not have hallucinations but hopefully you get the idea). The first question may be unethical, second question I think is ethical.

second question is unethical also, if Teary has not given permission for pdoc or T to talk to anyone outside her treating professionals.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by teary_me

Today out of no where there was a knock at the door. i was in bed sleeping but got woken up by talking. My Psychiartrist an Psychologist and some other lady i dont know who is showed up at my house and asked for me but dad said i was asleep. They started talking to dad and asked if 20 questions about if i cry, if im socialising, if i sleep all day, if i talk to him, and what i do. Dad said we don't speak much as i keep to myself. They went on telling dad how im going to see SARC which is a sexual abuse concelling service here. Dad didnt know about it. Hell, they didnt even know who i was abused by or what happened as i hadn't got that far with them yet, so for all they knew he could have been my abuser. They could have put me in danger. Dont they need my permission to talk to dad about that? Is it a breach? I didnt even know they were coming. Dad said he thought i was coping and was fine. i hide things from him so he wouldnt know otherwise, an they said they disagreed an thought i was struggling. They asked him about my suicidal thought. Dad DIDNT know anything about it. i feel as though ive been violated all over again. i dont know what to do. im seriously considering not having any councelling cos im scared the trust will be broken again. im so angry an hurt this happened as now dads been asking questions an i feel like my every move is being watched an questioned.
PLEASE HELP what do i do please any suggestions.
Do you think this was a breach of confidenitality?
Or am i overreacting?

If you are here in New York its not a breach of confidentiality if you are under 18. Its the state law here that mandated reporters (therapists, psychiatrists, doctors, crisis center vollunteers and professionals, teacher, any one that has professional involvement with people under 18) have to go to the parents and report to the parents and authories suspected abuse, self harm and suicidal situations.

If you are over 18 HIPPA privacy law protects your privacy by limiting how much medical and mental information can be disclosed about you without the proper forms in place.

[Catherine2]

Re Teary's information about where she lives/what was signed, them having no information on any danger to self/unidentified woman...

Confidentiality trumps freedom of speech.
Teary's situation is about her rights as a patient/client...and they have been violated.

From Wikipedia--easier to understand explanation.
Freedom of speech is the concept of the inherent human right to voice one's opinion publicly without fear of censorship or punishment. "Speech" is not limited to public speaking and is generally taken to include other forms of expression. The right is preserved in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights and is granted formal recognition by the laws of most nations. Nonetheless the degree to which the right is upheld in practice varies greatly from one nation to another. In many nations, particularly those with relatively authoritarian forms of government, overt government censorship is enforced. Censorship has also been claimed to occur in other forms (see propaganda model) and there are different approaches to issues such as hate speech, obscenity, and defamation laws even in countries seen as liberal democracies.

Political Library, Answers.com
Liberty to express opinions and ideas without hindrance, and especially without fear of punishment. Despite the constitutional guarantee of free speech in the United States, legal systems have not treated freedom of speech as absolute. Among the more obvious restrictions on the freedom to say just what one likes where one likes are laws regulating incitement, sedition, defamation, slander and libel, blasphemy, the expression of racial hatred, and conspiracy. The liberal tradition has generally defended freedom of the sort of speech which does not violate others' rights or lead to predictable and avoidable harm, but it has been fierce in that defence because a free interchange of ideas is seen as an essential ingredient of democracy and resistance to tyranny, and as an important agent of improvement. The distinction between an action falling under the description of speech and one which does not is not clear cut, because many non-verbal actions can be seen as making a statement—for example, burning a flag or destroying a symbol. Again, valued freedom of speech embraces publication—writing, broadcasting, distributing recordings—as well as oral delivery of ideas.
— Andrew Reeve

Highlights are not mine, they were contained with the articles.

[(JD)]

WOW I'm so sorry to hear that happened to you. I am glad, in one way, that they are so concerned for your safety, but as you said they truly didn't have enough info, and they seem to have the cart before the horse!

This is the link I found, but see another already gave it to you. http://www.privacy.gov.au/

I don't know about what's considered ethical in the AU, but just because it's upset you so, something wasn't done right, now was it?

You'll get through this. Please don't limit yourself to seeking help in the future because of these doctor's actions.

Also, another avenue to possibly follow is to file a grievance report w/the mental health facility that these practitioners are associated with. You can provide your concerns about improper actions that were detrimental to your mental health or find the language you prefer. There should be a process already established to do this at the facility. I am actually in the process of doing that at the mental health facility where I receive my therapy & DBT, but it is because I am getting rude, unhelpful & frankly disdainful treatment from a woman in the billing dept.

Finally after she actually yelled at me in front of people in the reception area at the facility & talking to my therapist, I decided that I didn't deserve this kind of treatment when I am merely trying to get her to correct some mistakes on my statement & info. on my receipts to be submitted to ins. co.

So I sent the letter describing the trouble I am having & documentation of phone calls & interactions w/her & sent the info. to the fellow at the facility who handles the grievances. I also sent a copy to my T, a woman I know who is on the Board of Directors of the mental health facility, and a copy to a woman I know who is the president of the local branch of NAMI (a mental health advocacy organization).

[deliquesce]

((((teary))))

just checking in to see how everything's going?

[ECHOES]

I'm sorry this happened. I can imagine it doesn't feel very good.

Please don't let it be a distraction or hinder your journey and goals.

[Ellen Ritter, PhD]

You've gotten some great advice about the legal issues pertaining to this breach not only of your confidentiality but also your trust and I think contacting the advocacy groups in your area is a good idea. You might also consider setting up a meeting with your T to confront him or her, find out why they did this, and let them know how you feel. Incidents like this really take away our sense of control and destroy trust -- being able to let them know how you felt about it, and set the boundaries for the future can really help you to get back some of that sense of control.

I am sorry this happened to you and I hope you can get it resolved so you can continue to resolve issues which have caused you pain.