I'm just throwing out some feelings and thoughts that I've been having in the past 24+ hours. I addressed getting to Psych in a post called "I Remember" a couple of days ago.

I'm now addressing how I feel about what makes up this site and how it is run. I've always felt very secure here and comfortable about asking for support and giving it.I've never posted here and then worried about not receiving support from site members.. That is very important to me. But the April Fool's dust-up concerns me alot and I'm addressing the feelings that I have about that incident. I am not trying to re-open that can of worms. I am posting about my feelings 5 days later..

I was very distressed to see the posts that more or less accused Doc John of making fun of those who have been diagnosed with some form of mental illness and are taking medications for said illness. There was much ado about how offensive the joke was to the mental health poster community. I PMed one of the people who was most upset. I felt very angry about the posts. Last night I went to the board where I used to be before I came here and was stunned to see ALOT of posts concerning Psych Central. I read each one.......followed the threads all the way through and I came to a conclusion for myself. There are folks who say that this site is too restrictive and is not a democratic site. I wholeheartedly disagree with that assessment. I believe that this is a very open and supportive site and I feel, for the most part, that we're allowed to address whatever we want to address. There aren't wholesale blocks here, Doc John doesn't have to ask us, repeatedly, to be civil towards one another. I feel that I understand the rules here and follow them easily. In short, I'm extremely grateful that we have this site. And I will defend the right of administration to "administrate" in the way that they see fit. I trust the administrator and all of the moderators with my what little mental health that I have left!

Thanks to Psych Central and all of the Groholers! Pat

[Wants2Fly]

Hi Pat --

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. My own are even more pro-Doc J. My feelings are that it doesn't matter whether one believes this site is restrictive or not. We do not pay for this service -- we are playing with someone else's marbles. And that someone gets to say what the rules are.

If one doesn't like the way the game is played, one is welcome to leave. I think Dr. John is rather tolerant about what goes on. If it were me, I fear I would be micromanaging all the time, and in the end there might be a couple of users, plus me.

I feel very lucky that I found Psych Central, and that it is never too often to thank John Grohol.

[Kalamity]

Other than reading this post I don't really know what happened. All I can offer as support is that not every site will meet every persons needs. It's really not possible for one site to appeal 100% to 100% of the members - people are too different for that to be the case.

I don't post very much but I'm really thankful for this site.

[wi_fighter]

I've only been here a few days, so I haven't become part of any in-fighting or anything, but so far I've found nothing but support.

We all agree to the TOS when we sign on. If you don't like the TOS, you are wecome to check the "I do not agree" box and cancel registration.

Can you imagine if the inmates ran the asylum? I don't want to have to.

I just came from a regular old socializing forum and the same arguments are tossed around there daily. Admin has to come in repeatedly and say "Look, you signed the TOS. You all talk about this "other place" that is so great. Fine. Go there and don't come back. We are not forcing you to stay, and your constant complaining is driving other people off and preventing new people from signing up."

[Nerak]

As a moderator it is nice to see the support, Thank you for your kind words, Pat, Wants, Kalamity & WI

[kimmydawn]

this did my eyes and heart good to read. thank you.

[GreyGoose]

Hmm...I don't have much to add to this thread except to say that I too feel very secure when I'm here and compared to the forum I used to frequent (which I still use sometimes) this forum is a lot more community-oriented whereas the other one was all about $$$ and keeping shareholders (and advertisers) happy so you were severely restricted on what you could say and do.

I met the much-fabled doc John last night for the first time and he was very nice and quickly answered a question I had in the chat. Well, can't think of much else to say at the moment except that I love this place and all of the people here are great:-)

[wisewoman]

Well, here is Pollyanna aqgain. What Doc's joke was is FUNNY! I snickered. I think that we can all find things to get upset about but the fact is this is a community where we can make it what we wish. So, I will go a step further. As a person with complex ptsd, Major reoccurent depression, and dissociative disorder, I am not P.C. when it comes to psyche humor. The way I see it I am pretty damned normal considering and that we AAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLL have our own issues. I really want a place without strife where we can assume the best of each other and not put our own s h i t onto others. I own my s h i t. I ain't perfect, tried it, still try, it doesan't seem to work and there are always risks that I will be hurt. I have been here almost a year. A year since my major depressive episode that landed me in bed for weeks and weeks. I am greatful that I found a bunch of annonomous people to tell my story to without holding back, without having to be a professional, without fear that they could hurt me in real liofe. I think this site rocks and I don't agree with everything that is said or happens here but tough tooty for me. I am just glad to have a place to visit with friends and to see what we all have under our skin and are to afraid to show a lot in real life. If someone says something that pisses me off, it's MY problem. I am the one with the feelings about it. I can choose my own path. I have written a very emphatic post here and I truly hope for no repercussions as I deeply respect each and every one of us on our journeys that is/are? life. I wish us all peace and love and understanding in our own hearts as well as from eachother. Okay, I am off the soap box now and being officially measured at 5 feet 2/3/4 inches today, I NEED A SOAP BOX. Ha ha, my inseem is 28 and it's a long story but lets laugh and love.

[wisewoman]

P.s., sorry if I did a Highjacking, I had no weapons and just a very fast few fingers!

that's not a highjacking.....it's your feelings about psych central..that's what mine was and the others....we're very glad to be here and as you stated, "it is what we make it" and i also liked that someone above us said that if it isn't working for a poster, they can leave. my sentiments exactly....rock on!!!!!!!! xoxoxo

[mj14]

Pat,

I hope you don't find me guilty of hijacking your thread, but I think this is most appropriate as a response, not as a new thread.

I love this community...I have been here for over three years, and the people here have seen me through some of the darkest periods of my life. I am so grateful to have found this site, and I love everyone here dearly.

But I am concerned about my online home. In the years that I have been here, I have seen this site grow and evolve. Sometimes new restrictions had to be put in place to protect the community. Sometimes it was to expand the scope of this site to serve some people's needs that weren't being met. There were times when not everyone agreed about the changes...allowing new and possibly disturbing subject matter onto the forums is frightening. But the thought was always that this site is meant to support people who are in pain and in need, and sometimes that meant opening up to something new.

I've seen an awful lot of statements here lately that say, "if you don't like it here, you can always find another site," and it makes me very sad. No one site can serve everyone, and there are always going to be times when people will just find that this site is not what they need. But people come here in need...and I am sure for many of them, as it was for me, it is very difficult to reach out and ask for help. And to finally reach out, to ask for help, only to find yourself told to go someplace else, must be very painful. I would sincerely hope that we all would do everything we possibly could to try to understand and accomodate someone's needs before we sent them packing.

I would also hope that we would be open to critique...after all, how can this site remain vibrant and continue to grow if we never allow any alternative viewpoints to get in? Sometimes critique may sound like criticism, but again, that is a product of the pain people at sites like this are in. But if we try hard enough to understand the underlying issue, then perhaps we can find a way to address the criticism, and maybe make the site a better place.

The security and safety of the members here has always been a top priority for this site. John's mission of never using what is posted at this site for research purposes, or allowing others to do so, is the best evidence of that. But even though maintaining a safe environment is the number one goal, I don't think it should be the only goal. When my agoraphobia was at its worst, I couldn't get out of bed without having a panic attack. I felt safe in my bed under the covers. But where would I be if I hadn't given up some of that safety, and left my bed? When considering our safety, we should also consider that sometimes we need to deal with uncomforable things in order to grow.

I love this site, and I think that John has done a wonderful job, as well as all of the mods. And it is precisely because I love this site, that I want to see it remain open to the growth and change that it has seen through its lifetime.

Jo

[nothemama8]

If those of us didn't have PC were would we go, *I* for one think this is the best site for *me* I'm happy here, I will stay here, there is no such thing as perfection, if ppl want perfection they will be searching for a very very long time, ppl we're all we got. When in doubt on something pm the person, I do it so I don't misunderstand and cop an attitude against the other person
Angie

[kimmydawn]

Jo,

I would like to respond to a couple of points in this post. It's very well written, btw.

You stated that you've seen an "awful lots of posts say that you if don't like it here, you can always find another site." I have seen a couple of those statements, not "an awful lot". I'm not saying that was handled in the best manner. I am saying that I've not seen anything to justify "alot".

Having said that, I will also say that I've NEVER seen the time wherein suggestions or critiques were not only accepted but were appreciated. This site is continually changing based on the needs/wants of its members. I appreciate that so much.

I'm glad you so appreciate your online home. I do as well. I try to work daily to help to keep it a safe and healthy place for those in need to reach out in.

Behind the scenes, and in general, this site is changing daily to adjust to the needs of its members. We are continuing to grow in hopes that those of us who need support can find it here in the way in which they need it.

Have a great day,

kd

[Kathyanita]

Kimmy
With all due respect I have to say that when you are the one invited to go elsewhere- quantity does not lessen the insult.
PS I'm sure I'd rather be a garbage collector or fish-scaler than do what the administrators and moderators have to do at times as part of the job. But PLEASE I dont wish to hold court on THAT subject- Ive resigned enough chairs to know how taxing it is.

[darkeyes]

Very nicely put, dear

DE


(((((((((((((( mj and all here ))))))))))))))

[Wants2Fly]

Hi -- MJ and Angie -- both of you have made excellent points and given me something to think about.

For my own clarification, I need to make some distinction between two categories of disruption. The first category are people who are reaching out for help and may communicate in a way that creates a disruption. This may mean bringing up topics that are triggering for one's own healing, having "foot in the mouth itus" and all the types of disagreement and miscommunication that occur in the normal course of getting to know people and learning to get along with people of diverse personalities and backgrounds while working on very complex mental health issues that we face.

The other category are people whose complaints about the site or behaviors are idiosyncratic, insistent, continual, and disruptive. They seem -- from my POV -- to place their right to personal self-expression above the right of anyone else to feel safe here. For example, I have noticed a few people who were strongly put out and very vocal when profane language was not tolerated. Or avatars that trigger. And felt self-expression was wrongfully denied them. I noticed a new, youthful member throw out insults to older members, whose histories were well-known to many, and they were promptly defended. The individual was not asked to leave in any way shape or form, but certain norms of civility were asked. I know that some of this was done through PMs and offers to assist by members who truly, authentically, and kindly extended themselves in an attitude of caring.

I apply the "leave it if you don't like it" philosophy to myself, too. There have been a few instances where I may not have agreed with decisions that were made. I expressed one such opinion in a PM to Dr. John. However, it is more important to me not to be banned from the forums than to be stubbornly "right," so I do my best to observe policies and norms. I may make mistakes. If there comes a time when I "can't stand" the ways things are run here, when I have to compromise my principles to be here, it is time for me to leave.

I understand that the people who insist on their right to profanity, triggering avatars, hurling insults about and the like, also are here to reach out for help. However, at the point that their insistence on self-expression violates others' values, sense of safety, and feeling secure in reaching out to get their needs met, my position is to advise the "self-expressionists" to "find someplace else." I do not want to cop an attitude about it, nor appoint myself to police the boundaries -- that's the job of the mods and JG. In fact, I personally have never told or hinted that anyone should leave the Forums. The attitude I expressed on this thread is one I have kept to myself and only expressed publicly after the topic of our attitudes about the environment of Psych Central was brought up in this thread.

I agree that finding that area where growth occurs at Psych Central, where more people's needs are accommodated, where tolerance is practiced, can involve discomfort or outright painful moments. I also believe that the forums cannot and should not be "all things to all people."

It is agreed, for example, that debate of political and religious ideas is not appropriate here. The forums are about mental health. I think suggestions that one might look someplace else are generally made kindfully and tactfully, not with an attitude. I suspect that in expressing the "go someplace else" idea on this thread, the words came out more curtly and sharply than the actual practice of this process of, say, suggesting to someone that profane creativity might need some other place to express itself other than the Forums.

The bottom line for me remains that after the norms of the forum are explained to a person -- hopefully in PMs, and hopefully by mods -- if the individual continues to require types of self-expression that violate the safety of others, it is best for that person to find a place where she or he can fulfill that need. I don't think this is really telling the person to "get out of here, or else." It is a process of establishing boundaries and giving the person a choice: if you observe the boundaries, you will receive support, suggestions, comfort, and maybe some friendship here. If you choose to violate the boundaries, you will continue to receive negative feedback, requests to stop, and mods and members will call you on your uncivil, disruptive, or hostile behaviors.

At least, that's the way I'm seeing things for right now . . .

[Kathyanita]

I hope its clear that I'm referring to the experience of being invited to leave by those whos authority is not official and is only implied by their seniority as a member of the community.
Thank you-

[DocJohn]

Thank you Pat, that means a lot to me! I appreciate your support and your kind words.

We're all only human and I believe we all are only trying to do the best we can here. That includes me too. Sometimes I make mistakes and those of you who know this also know I've apologized for them.

Best,
DocJohn

[mj14]

John, I want to add my thanks for all you do for this site. You are the reason that it has grown into what it is, a place where so very many people receive help, support and comfort. And I look forward to an even brighter future.

[Wants2Fly]

Amen to that. It's a wonderful site and a wonderful service.

[luvtiels]

This is the first place I've been that I have felt comfortable about posting my inner thoughts and fears, feelings, etc. But then I disappear for awhile, and............. nothing. I do subscribe to a numner of forums, so I get them in my email, and I have noticed more than a few posts on "where is so-and-so, we havent seen him/her in ages". But I go away for awhile, and no one even bothers to ask about me. Its almost as if I didnt exist. Believe me, I get enough of that in real life. Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, I dunno. I am a dependant personality, and I guess I need some kind of reinforcement from folks that I do matter in their lives, even if it is over the Internet. Now I'm not saying I need 100 responses to this post (LOL), but one or two would be nice

[Myzen]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
This is the first place I've been that I have felt comfortable about posting my inner thoughts and fears, feelings, etc. But then I disappear for awhile, and............. nothing. I do subscribe to a numner of forums, so I get them in my email, and I have noticed more than a few posts on "where is so-and-so, we havent seen him/her in ages". But I go away for awhile, and no one even bothers to ask about me. Its almost as if I didnt exist. Believe me, I get enough of that in real life. Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, I dunno. I am a dependant personality, and I guess I need some kind of reinforcement from folks that I do matter in their lives, even if it is over the Internet. Now I'm not saying I need 100 responses to this post (LOL), but one or two would be nice

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Hi luvtiels,

Just spotted your post. I know the feeling, and it's 'rejection sensitivity'. We feel that everyone else will be remembered and even loved, but we will be left out. It's rotten, and a big part of depression.

I'll keep an eye out for your posts in future, luvtiels.

Cheers, Myzen.

i'm sorry that this has happened to you, luvtiels...i was thinking last night that there are forums that i don't go into because i don't know anything about that particular subject. my thinking has been that i would feel awkward because i don't have experience that relates to ,say, "personality disorders"....your post has made me aware that there are perhaps tons of posters that i've never seen their writings....i.e. their feelings...i generally flit from one forum to another, the ones that i feel comfortable interacting in. i see, by your post, that i should go into the other forums because i can always offer an ear and support. i apologize to you and i'm really glad that you posted in this thread. xoxox pat

[kimmydawn]

yes, that's a yucky feeling. i agree with myzen as well. depression can say all kinds of things to us.

i know, that for me, i post and start my own threads sometimes, But for the most part, i repsond to other's threads. i have a huge memory problem as well as a very bad sense of time. it's, alot the time, difficult for me know long long ppl have been away, etc. i think several are that way.

luvtiels, i'm sorry and that's a yucky feeling.

kd

[wisewoman]

luvtiels, love the name and just know I am in my own head and it's not about you. Glad to see you.