[(JD)]

From time to time we discuss how WE members here who struggle with our thoughts and actions try very hard to educate those who have no clue what we deal with on a day to day basis. Most of us give info that comes from our doctors, the internet and those here who experience first hand realizations.

I just wanted to let those who don't realize yet that the proper term for the actual psychotherapy of CBT is Cognitive BEHAVIOR Therapy. While it is a behavioral therapy, it's name is as I wrote. Some doctors engage in many types of cognitive - behavioral therapies, so that might be where the inaccuracy begins.

This probably won't mean any difference to most of us here. But why not be accurate if we can? There's so much we can't be sure of, it's good to know stuff we can be sure of... imo.

[SeptemberMorn]

I think it's important to define "cognitive." It comes from the word ...

COGNITION
: the act or process of knowing, including both awareness and judgment; also : a product of this act

That's some pretty powerful stuff!

[Parker10]

I actually have to disagree here , and I am hesitant to do so, being still a more or less newbie. I have taken the time to look at 6 textbooks from the "good ole days" while I was studying for my degree. I use CBT all the time with my clients, and refer to it with them, and here, as cognitive behavorial therapy. That is a correct statement....spelling is correct, form of the word behavior is correct. That being said, it is ALSO referred to as Cognitive Behavior Therapy. It depends on where you look and what type of author has written about it.

IMHO, both are correct and I don't feel anyone has made an error.

Hi Sky,

I'm glad Parker chimed in as her thinking was the same as mine, though I myself don't have any education in the actual therapy stuff! I didn't think using the word "behavioral" was an error.

I and my psychologist ( who has 35 years experience behind him) call it "behavioral" too. I wonder if it's like the "toe-mae-toe...........toe-ma-toe" ---------type thing?

Mandy

[SeptemberMorn]

In case you hadn't read Sky very much; she's the Queen of Splitting Hairs. hehe It's both endearing and frustrating to me. I've learned to go with the flow. However, I thing the Cognitive part is also very important.

[(JD)]

Yes that's me. .

Ok. Does onet "do" cognitive behavioral change..or do you do cognitive BEHAVIOR change. It is a behavioral therapy, and is properly grouped in that category with the others. The technical term, regardless of what ppl write and use, is "Cognitive Behavior Therapy." While I might work on a behavioral change, it is my cognitive behavior I'm wishing to change.

Is it any wonder why someone would balk at using a correct term when it's offered? Of course I expected discourse, otherwise I wouldn't have begun the thread.

[(JD)]

Yes that's me. .

Ok. Does one change cognitive behavioral--or does one change cognitive BEHAVIOR? It is a behavioral therapy, and is properly grouped in that category with the others. The technical term, regardless of what ppl write and use, is "Cognitive Behavior Therapy." While I might work on a behavioral change, it is my cognitive behavior I'm wishing to change.

Is it any wonder why someone would balk at using a correct term when it's offered? Of course I expected discourse, otherwise I wouldn't have begun the thread.

[dayzee9]

Thou should turn the "inforced" tone down...

Peace,
DAYZEE

[DocJohn]

Umm, what's the point? Both terms are widely used and it's generally accepted either way within the profession. In fact, there is a National Association of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapists and they refer to it as cognitive behavioral therapy:

http://www.nacbt.org/whatiscbt.htm

Really now, this is a support community. This is not the place for academic discussions about the most 'proper' psychological terminology.

DocJohn

[wi_fighter]

[(JD)]

That is the point! Good going! Nearly always when someone or some site is referring to the category it is hyphenated (as viewed above) and I think that's fine... but very proper to give THE " " wCBT(ith the pretty standard use of the "basics" as Ellis and Beck warranted) the proper usage. I would dream of changing anyone else's term of therapy when directly referring TO it. Kind of like a "copyright" name maybe?

There are plenty of cognitive-behavioral therapies... if referring to CBT itself, then that's Cognitive Behavior Therapy. See what I mean?<font color="blue">
Here's more food for thought:
cognitivetherapy.com/learning.html

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Meanwhile, on the Upper East Side of Manhattan in the office of clinical psychologist Albert Ellis, and in Philadelphia in the office of psychiatrist Aaron T. Beck, parallel changes were under way. Both of these eminent psychotherapists noticed how people's thoughts seemed to correlate closely with their feelings, moods and actions. Moreover, they were willing to assume that, at least a good part of the time, their patients' troubles were being caused by the form and content of their thoughts and their beliefs about themselves and the world.

This was a radical shift from the psychoanalytic view, which seeks to explain “neurotic” experience and behavior in terms of events remote in time, particularly early childhood. The trouble with this approach is that, at best, it can explain how a person's troubles first began. Left without a truly satisfactory answer is the question of how early experiences could be responsible for difficulties in the present. Ellis's and Beck's cognitive focus helped bridge this gap, and brought the new, expanded scope of learning theory into applied psychology and psychiatry.

In addition, Ellis and Beck stressed conscious thought, which psychoanalysis had tended to dismiss as little more than a voice-over narration, or as a breeding-ground for comfortable excuses, while the ”real” motives behind people's behavior were to be found in the unconscious. Cognitive psychology also recognizes and studies unconscious processes (the “cognitive unconscious”), but defines them very differently and accords them a less central role in determining behavior. For cognitive psychologists there is no murderous, sex-crazed “id” to be tamed — only ordinary biological processes.

Classical behavior therapy, based on the work of Pavlov, Watson, Skinner and their adherents, and cognitive therapy, based on the work of Ellis, Beck, and countless cognitive researchers in university research labs, began as separate and distinct applications of learning theory to clinical work. But in time their fundamental compatibility was recognized, and since the 70s most science-oriented therapists have practiced cognitive behavior therapy (more commonly though less accurately called cognitive-behavioral therapy), or CBT.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Why shouldn't we care? Why shouldn't it matter? If I labeled something a certain way, I'd want it called that, and delineated from other "sister" items. What's the difference to others (you) that there is a difference in terminology? Why is there a struggle between the masses over this?

[dayzee9]

I'd say SeptemberMorn has the right take on this issue, Sky was hair-splitting; but why argue by throwing definitions at each other???

I had my share of research to become a Psych nurse & I read ALOT!!! I say that when there's dozens of different theories written over even a decade!
So who's right?

It doesn't matter the breakdown of the actual word; all you need is the true "essence".......Consciousness, period. Aware of yourself & your surroundings.....being in the "Here & Now"

"nuff said..............................................."

Peace, DAYZEE9

[(JD)]

Pehaps I am, but I began the thread for discussion. If everyone just wants to think I'm only after being "right" and others "wrong" then the whole object is missed... by some who have degrees, no less.

But that's ok... we can have supportive discussions about...say...scientology and celebrities, instead.

I withdraw properly slapped hand.

My apologies to all who offended me.

[SS8282]

I believe you're right too, Parker. In addition to what you said, 'behavioral' is an adjective while 'behavior' is a noun. In the case of 'Cognitive Behavioral Therapy', 'cognitive behavioral' describes (adjective) the type of 'therapy' - unless the term is 'behavior therapy' and not 'therapy', which, in this case, 'cognitive is the only adjective, which makes it correct to say 'cognitive behavior therapy'.

I believe the correct term for CBT is 'Cognitive Behavioral Therapy'. Anyone confuzzled?

[jmo531]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
But that's ok... we can have supportive discussions about...say...scientology and celebrities, instead.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

<font color="blue">I am a little confused by this comment Sky. I guess because my post regarding Tom Cruise and Scientology had to do with his views and comments about mental illness which affect me personally and I thought that it would be a good topic of discussion. Not to mention the view of Scientologist in general and their views of psychiatry is actually something that I was not familier with and found it very interesting. I am sorry you didnt see that way. Take care. Much love.



Jen </font>

[(JD)]

Who came up with right and wrong here? Accuracy was what I requested, that's all. Please read my posts folks...

That's ok. It's not like I'm writing a book or anything, see, so it don't matter no how what I think. I am not entitled to any opinion and God forbid I think I'm ever accurate. If I were, I wouldn't be here, now would I? And since ppl with degrees disagree, that makes me "wrong" right?

Hope I have provided everyone with some fun at my expense today.

LOL point made, missed, game.

I'm sorry to have tried this. If I keep drawing back a nub, I might learn.

It makes really excellent sense (unless you speak English) to insert an adjective into a title (noun)... I agree.

[wi_fighter]

Post deleted by Wi-Fi.

[SeptemberMorn]

Some people just can't discuss for the sake of discussion. They always have to make a point of being right! Why in the HELL does it always have to turn into a fight???? Where is civility? Where is intelligence? Where is the acceptance to learn something new?

I AM SO FED UP WITH THE ARGUING AND PETTY BICKERING!!

[dayzee9]

Point taken..............backing out............DAYZEE9

[nothemama8]

Sky, I haven't replied to this because I'am still learning about mental illness and what I don't understand I don't reply to, so the way I see it is no one is right or wrong , ya just gave ppl something to think about NOT debate on
Angie

[SeptemberMorn]

What the hell gives me the right?? What's that about rights?? I'm no one here! No better, no worse than anyone else!! I was merely stating a fact that I know about Sky! I CAN deal with it! Why can't anyone else?? This is so much !!!!!!

[DocJohn]

Sky, I absolutely did not see you starting this thread asking to start a "discussion" on the "proper" definition of the term, "CBT." You stated, as fact, that when a person is discussing "CBT," it is properly referred to only as "cognitive behavior therapy," saying, "But why not be accurate if we can?"

I, and others, pointed out that this is not accurate, that both terms are in general, accepted use, even amongst professionals. Starting with a logical fallacy (suggesting that anything that disagrees with your POV is "inaccurate") is a sign a person is not interested in a discussion, but in fixing a perceived "wrong."

My point is this, and take it as you will -- this is one of those things where you can discuss until the cows come home, but there is no "right" or "wrong" here. And that was *my* point -- why bring up your preference for this term while suggesting everybody else's use of the term is (by your words) "inaccurate"?

Why split hairs when there are so many other things one could be focusing on in life, in this community, whatever??

DocJohn

[(JD)]

jmo it wasn't against that thread at all... but a comparison to try and figure out why my thread isn't important and something like that is ...and is considered "supportive?" Why can't there be both?

[(JD)]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
? Of course I expected discourse, otherwise I wouldn't have begun the thread.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I'm a guessing that no one here really knows me but septembermorn...
and most are expecting me to start a fight or something?

I apologize again. It was expressed as I tried to state, as some of those who have engaged in discussion threads before about educating ppl about mental illness and such...

I guess I have to have all my thread proofed first. This is good, that everyone gets to see that I'm not DocJohn's favorite, as some had accused me of. Public humbling is never fun.

Ok. I'm wrong. Really.

I know I'm also wrong to feel that I don't fit in. That you all tolerate me only to an extent. And dejavu septembermorn that if I can't regain some civility on this thread soon, it will be locked.

So what are some things that you think you know and would like others to be accurate in thinking too, that you have the strength to post here?

Did I write that correctly? I'm trying to engage members in discussion. I didn't realize I have to state that with any post or thread. I assumed that it was inherent in posting... asking for discussion. We don't have a forum for just making statements for no reply.

sigh.

[Schatze]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
In case you hadn't read Sky very much; she's the Queen of Splitting Hairs.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

IMHO...I think Sky just wanted to post a subject and have a discussion. The post is in the General Discussion forum and Sky's post ended in IMO. I don't think Sky was looking for the name calling of being a "Queen" of anything. As I read the thread it appears that now people are debating over the symantics of Sky's post instead of actually discussing the post.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
In case you hadn't read Sky very much...I've learned to go with the flow.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

SeptemberMorn, I certainly don't want to offend you and hope you take this as caring and constructive critism, but your post struck me as a warning to others about Sky. I hope I'm wrong and that you didn't mean that and perhaps you can explain to Sky what you really meant.

As for a reply to Sky, I think we should be as accurate as possible when we can. But there are so many differing "professional" opinions on this subject I have to keep my understanding of it in generalized terms. I think it would be helpful to add a forum dedicated to discussing these important terms and our understanding of them or what they mean to each of us...just my 2 cents

Missi