Where does "evil" come from?

Well said. AkAngel and thank you for putting a closer perspective to the discussion.

I am Sto:lo and my husband is Ojibwa and I know of what you speak. The horror stories endured by our ancestors under the policies of the Queen and Canadian government and acted upon by their representatives were beyond contemptable. The greater sadness is that the oppression continues with policies that deny us our inherent rights and title even today. I have spent much of my professional life fighting government and the systemic racism provading our society in order to protect our rights for our children. It has been a constant struggle to maintain any hope for less than evil intentions to prevail; for the genocide of my people to reach its intended fruition while good people continue to offer only lip service. It was the Elders who taught me that it isn't as simple as casting a wide brush to explain what goes on in the world. Only through engagement, even with those who do evil can we change the course of our stories. All my relations.

Needed perspectives, I think.

I agree that the treatment of Native Americans was/is worse than bad. I also think that slavery was a very sad chapter in American history. So, no evil society or person perpetrated this evil? A representative of evil did? Evil by proxy.

Perhaps an investigation needs to conducted to look into the childhoods of those who ordered and carried out these atrocities?

Since these evil acts were not carried out by evil men, how may those who continue to oppress be brought to justice? Is not genocide an evil thing?

It's definitely a 50/50 thing- nature/nurture, and of course, what goes along with that is someone's predisposion (geneticall;y influenced) to be a certain way and so it's a very confusing subject. Some would argue some people are just born 'evil', and other's become that way. I thinjk it's both, personally, as both cases are widely seen throughout the criminal justice system. Sorry, I didn't read the article.

How may those who continue to oppress be brought to justice is an excellent question. I don't know the answer but I do have thoughts.

While their is a debate regarding corporal punishment for children, even those who agree with the idea of spanking entreaty parents to never spank while angry. I think that's a good start for society when trying to mete out justice; don't come from a place of anger.

People tend to gravitate toward groupthink. Many of Hitlers minions would never have committed the atrocities they did on their own accord; yet with a leader they did. The same with the native americans and slaves. It is also true that many of Martin Luther King or Gandhi's followers wouldn't have committed many of the acts of non-violence that they did on their own; yet with a leader they did. When we stand together against violence without meeting it with violence, we will be on our way. We will need a different type of leader.

As for how to bring them to justice...I have been taught that we are not punished for our anger, we are punished by our anger. Anger is a child of fear and living with fear is, as many here including myself can testify, is the greatest punishment.

I don't know why you went to the trouble to quote me, since I would be the 1st to admit, there were horrific atrocities committed against the native Indian people. We have spoke before that your religion doesn't believe people can be evil and that's your belief. There was also atrocities against African American people and similar atrocities against humans as we speak. Evil rears it's ugly head when it comes to race, religion, and politics - that's why I'm against war and prejudice. I only mentioned Hitler because it was mentioned repeatedly in this thread and I don't wants member of this religion to be insulted. I don't think the topic of this OP, was to have a competition of who's atrocity is greater. So I think it could be agreed that religion, race and politics can bring out the evil in people.

I was more interested in the single person and why it happens. I agree it's nature and/or nurture. There are serial killers who've had good upbringings but still kill. There are child predators and psychopathic killers that will never be rehabilitated or fixed.

I think a human being is born with a propensity to do "evil" as opposed to "good." It is love that changes this behavior.

A baby is all about "me! me! me!" and will continue to be that way unless taught about "sharing" and "hugging" and the good side of living. Being selfish, wanting what's best for oneself without regard to others is inherent.

pachy, i think it's great that you are asking these hard questions and want to do something to help improve people's lives. while i think there are many professionals who probably have the most influence to make larger scale societal changes i do think we all have something to contribute. you mentioned on another thread how you wonder where all the compassionate people are in real life and that you are quite isolated. i meant to respond to your other thread to tell you how some of the nicest, most compassionate people i have met were while volunteering. at one time my sister did work with a regional food bank and asked me to volunteer at some of their fundraising events. honestly, the folks who worked at the food bank were the coolest, nicest people you could ever meet. and i did such tough work like hand out script and other ridiculously easy things at great events like food festivals where all the tops chefs prepared food that i also got to sample once my "work" was done. those are obviously really small contributions but they were much appreciated none-the-less to raise money for the food bank.

i think if you take your interests in wanting to help people, your desire to be around kinder folks, and your need for more human interaction then i think if you find something you are passionate about and volunteer you could really make a difference in others' lives and also really benefit from it yourself. there are so many things you could do: volunteer at a local foster home, or a local mental health clinic, teach disadvantaged kids to read thru your public library, etc. etc. of course this is all permitting you are physically able but if not there is plenty you could do online too. look how lynn p. helps out answering questions here on PC. talking about issues is necessary and good but i think it's even more important to get out there and do something to contribute. i say this to myself as much as to you as i know the tendency to just get stuck in my head. i hear a real passion in you to make a difference and i say go for it and volunteer in an area you are passionate about.

Do you know what I think is terribly sad...

Even today, men and women throughout history, who have done evil, unspeakable acts to people based on their culture, their skin color, their spirituality, their age, their size, their gender, and their sexuality...even today, from their graves, we still give up our power to them and allow them to continue to commit evil acts by allowing who they once were to divide us and allowing who they once were to continue to encourage hate, dis-trust, and bigotry.

I do not think that there is one culture, not one, that can say their hands are clean and that they have never, at some point in history, committed atrocities against humans.

The fact that someone was abused as a child does not discount the fact that they killed millions because they couldn't figure things out inside themselves, it merely offers insight in how they became a monster. When a rabid dog goes crazy and bites someone, people do not say "poor doggy....he's rabid because another animal bit him.", we say "the dog is rabid and it has now bitten someone due to it's madness. It is mad because it was infected with rabies. This animal must be stopped." and the dog is euthanized.

A rabid animal is a rabid animal, regardless of how it became that way and it needs to be dealt with accordingly.

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showt...42#post1414942

I think this was a great thread, with lots of good thoughts put into it, what a shame more people in this world didnt spend time talking and thinking, instead of just reacting.

...and if Germany beat England today, their all be bloody evil lol

I think someone like this experiences real enjoyment and displays curiosity. Attention and then intervention could re-direct the person to other things that can also bring enjoyment and satisfy curiosity.

I have thought quite a bit about that, and... it still scares me! I do do some mildly volunteering type things, but... I think I feel I have yet to find a good niche for myself, but I am still thinking about trying to be more venturesome!

Venturesomeness can guide you towards your niche pachy. Being engaged in life is so key to getting a payback from our investments. I think if we keep feeding our passions we can discover great things about ourselves. You can recognize your passions by how they stir up an excitment and energy for action within you. Doors open as we approach them with eyes wide open looking for ways to share our gifts and talents. Some of us never find our niche so to speak. We embrass many causes and interests and we reach out in many different directions. We switch gears many times and are energized by that kind of diversity.

Good luck to you as you venture into new and exciting territories from where you may shine your bliss.

Melba.... so sorry for your loss.... and Germany's gain. I was rooting for your Brit team but it wasn't to be today. The thrill of victory, the agony of defeat.... awe the love of sport! lol.

that's cool. the good thing about volunteering is that you are da boss. if you don't like it you can always leave. also, it's ok to start small. you don't have to do something hardcore especially to start with or make a big time commitment. if people are too daunting you can always do something with animals too. humane societies are in great need with the recession.

i think working with the homeless or street people would be daunting, at least for me, but at my church we're working with a group that goes out every week in the wee hours to help prostitutes and whoever else is out at that hour like the homeless, runaways, and addicts. i don't know if i'll ever do that part because they require a weekly commitment and i'm not sure it's my thing, but i am totally down with doing the behind the scenes work for them. i've only done it a few times so far since it's also at the wee hours, but i love it and the people are great.

Plenty of hurt and blame to go around. We can also try to work for better things instead of involving our thoughts so much in pain.

*Trigger*

Based on a real story though I cannot remember the exact details...

'Evil' was a paedophile, he emotionally, physically and sexually abused children for his own gratification. He was having sex with his own children, he kept them locked up in the basement of his house in order to keep his 'evil' deeds a secret. He kept all the children in the basement their whole life. 'Good' people eventually found out and removed the children. When it came to court 'Evil' showed no remorse. He was not mentally ill, he knew exactly what he had been doing. It was his choice and he had no morals what so ever.

This is what evil is.

I would say "This is what evil looks like" to you (and to others). That's OK (by me) -- but it is not the same as "is". Oh well.

More: if something "is" X, then all must agree that it is X -- or be "wrong", deluded. If someone feels Y about X, then you are not caught in the same trap. You can examine why people would feel various things about X, but you are not caught in a contradiction. Investigating feelings is still something worthy of examination.

I agree with the lack of empathy and compassion, but Jung made a statement that the brighter the light the darker the shadow. He also said if we don't own our own shadow it makes it easy for the devil to slip in the back door metaphysically speaking. There is a new film and book out entitled The Shadow Effect that you can check out at this website
http://theshadoweffect.com/
I read the book but haven't seen the film. If you click on where it says The Event at the bottom you can listen to an hour and a half long interview with the 3 authors.
Robert A Johnson wrote a great little book also entitled Owning Your Own Shadow.
M. Scott Peck wrote an interesting book also concerning evil entitled People of the Lie if anyone is interested.

Best Regards, Shoe

I would have thought pretty much everyone would agree with me in saying that paedophiles are evil pachyderm. Unless you happened to be a paedophile...

Wrong, peg!

I may feel something very threatening, very frightening to me about a paedophile, or other kind of person who does things that trigger me -- but I don't project what I feel into being a property of "reality". I can see their separateness. I feel what I feel more clearly, and, I think, can see reality more clearly, too.

Isn't it similar to what a doctor must do with patients or cadavers or whatever: feel their feelings, yes, but see beyond that to what they have to in order to learn, to heal?

Was a time when I had sympathy for the devil too until someone pointed out the 'reality.' A paedophile can be very charming and there are nice parts to their evilness until you realize it's for their own ends. I do not fear peadophiles because they are evil but I do know what they are...

Look at this:



Is this a picture of a young girl or of an old woman?

This was brought to my attention recently in a course on the brain, to illustrate that what we see is a matter of interpretation in our brains, not just in the eye, or in "reality". Similarly, what we see as a quality of something that we perceive about the world outside ourselves is an interpretation, not "the thing itself".

Where does evil come from? I think it's an externalization of our own fears and unconscious thoughts. Anything we find horrendous is probably going to be evil to us. Some are going to say Hitler, some paedophiles, etc.

I was raised on the bogeyman:

"The bogeyman is a legendary monster. The bogeyman has no specific appearance and conceptions of the monster can vary drastically even from household to household within the same community; in many cases, he simply has no set appearance in the mind of a child, but is just an amorphous embodiment of terror. Bogeyman can be used metaphorically to denote a person or thing of which someone has an irrational fear. Parents often say that if their child is naughty, the bogeyman will get them, in an effort to make them behave. The bogeyman legend may originate from Scotland, where such creatures are sometimes called bogles, boggarts, or boggers." From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogeyman

When we were at my grandparents beach cottage in Southern Maryland and would leave to drive home to the Washington, D.C. suburb late on a Sunday night in summer, we would leave the open water, the Chesapeake Bay, and travel on small country roads through dark, wooded areas in our station wagon. My three brothers would threaten to roll down the station wagon rear window and force me out where the bogeyman would get me. They would pretend to see him too, in the woods, keeping up with the car. I still remember a dream I had when I was about 6, perhaps my first nightmare, I was alone in a station wagon, could see home across the way, but there were wolves all over the top of the car and "dripping" down the sides, trying to get in the windows.

I was born an anxious child and I'm sure some of my upbringing didn't help :-)

Bogeymen aren't real. I don't think evilmen are real either. Yes, there are individuals who do horrendous, selfish, despicable acts but I don't believe there is a class of humanity that one can throw such individuals in and say, "this" is evilness, all else is not and it has nothing to do with me and mine.