Youth Gulags back in the "mainstream"?

Absolutely caveat emptor! What makes your threads tend to amble through adversarial ground imo is that you attribute extremes as the "norm" .. when you really do allow for the usual/generality, non specifics in your mind/life... ) I, for one, just don't see it in your posting.

down hon I don't understand your attitude towards the good places that do help kids. Not all of these places are boot camps and really do work with the kids. I do agree that there are places that do torture, but I also know there are really good programs like Sage Walk that really help. Maybe you could explain what you are really angry at?

Sky,

I'm not sure what you meant to say.

Bebop,

That's not what the reviews I linked to have to say about sagewalk. They call it an abusive program and a gulag camp, that doesn't sound like a good thing at all and the kidnapping charge is a very serious one to me that speaks of criminal behavior. Many of the so called good camps are anything but, have you read about the awards that Jim Jones got for his model drug rehab program, well that would be the very tip of the iceberg.

I couldn't agree more with you about the whole "reality tv approach". We should all know that the media's representation of "reality" is the opposite...and potentially harmful....I truly hate to see complex problems reduced to a 30 minute program. But I've been upset for awhile.....The show about tv's so called "brats" is not as disturbing to me as the "Swans" program. The message of that little "jewel" is that if you have the right surgeries and other cosmetic enhancements, you can be loved and have a wonderful life....(neither of which are available in the current, distasteful state of unattractiveness)....That's truly a scary message for our young women to be receiving...just as scary as presenting youths with real problems as "soldiers" who will "fall in line" if they just get their bu tts kicked hard enough.....Enough is enough......Down with Reality TV!

I think that some of the past thinking is still around which was like MacD said, "if they just get their butts kicked hard enough", they will shape up. I know that was the thinking of my parents & of their parents. For those of us who weren't harmed by that thinking, some have decided that that philosophy is what works thus the continuance of that thinking. Those of us who were harmed by it or have decided that that approach isn't appropriate, have come up with better ways (I think) of handling the situations. I still look at the upswing of violent crimes & the age bracket that they are done by & still wonder what would have changed their actions if anything would have.

I know that my parents always went with the concept "if it worked for my parents, it will work for us". Our generation (I was born in 1953) has learned to think for ourselves & decide what works best for us, always coming up with new ideas when something doesn't work. We are much more open to new ideas & even creating our own ideas to handle problems that we encounter. Not saying that our results will be any better when the future looks back at us, But at least we are trying.

Debbie

down I have watched the show since it came on...I have seen no kind of abuse on there...there is no yelling at the kids..they do not believe in it...who did the review on it? Parents can take their children anywhere. how is that kidnapping? maybe watch the show then decide for yourself. I wish they had had a program like that when my son was giving me so much trouble. but no I found a place that beat the crap out of him..complete with bleeding. I took him out of there. then I was told I would go to hell for taking him out. that is abuse..

I have read your links Down and find the information disturbing. It did appear that these places were using mind control technigues and abuse. I am however a fan of outward bound for kids and adults as we can learn skills that would benefit all of us. Unfortunately I have never had the money for that experience. When my daughter (whom most of you are aware, at 17 has moved in with her boy-friend and family) was getting out of control I asked the adoption agency if there were a special outdoor camp for kids like her and they said NO, NONE that taught true life skills. Hmm, that's my state. I also want to say that maybe even currently there is an all year round outdoor school where kids camp even in the winter and have class rooms as well as work from the outdoors. These kids are all sentenced to this place. The profile is/was always low. I went for a job interview there once a million years ago but I am still quite certain they are active. Their approach seemed to be in teaching personal responsibility to offending youths through a difficult-day to day existance in the wilderness. No opinion here, don't know enough.

Okay, I can say the name, found it. www.eckerd.org. Have not had a chance to research yet.

I found these links last night.

http://fornits.com/wwf/index.php?viewcat=1
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=37&1964

I urge parents to research long and hard before considering any sort of isolating behavior changing camp for their kids. Local counseling with you present may be far more helpful.

Compliance is not character.

~Down

i went to a wilderness program. i am posting a very detailed OLD journal entry every day on my blog site (the link is below). it's exactly 3 years since i left, and i am about to go into a different program, so i thought it would be cool to post an old entry on the 3 year anniversary it was written. i hope you check it out and get my perspective