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Old Oct 05, 2010, 10:40 AM
Onward2wards Onward2wards is offline
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I have been doing a lot of thinking about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy lately. What are those infamous "thinking errors", and why do I - and several other people on PC - find something a bit overstated about them? Well, I've had to reframe the concept a bit so it makes better sense to me. Thinking errors are simply a misapplication of decision making systems that are actually enormously USEFUL, as long as they are used in the right way at the right time! The problems arise when we do not use those systems properly, and that's all there is to it - the devil is simply in the details.

Let's consider Black and White Thinking, for one. I prefer to think of this cognitive process as simply Learning Through Extreme Contrast. It makes sense - we can see, for example, because we can perceive contrasts between light and dark. By extension, if you have a goal, have you reached it yet, Yes or No? Have we accomplished something of significance that we see someone else accomplishing, Yes or No? It is a way of reducing ambiguity (which the human brain seems to understandably dislike), and it saves brain power! Entirely logical and healthy in and of itself. However, like all ways of thinking, it can be misapplied; the misapplication of it can be rightly called a Thinking Error, and these misapplications work against us!

For example, we can clearly see when we have not reached a goal yet, and this gives us a signal to consider that fact. Is there a better way? Are we on track? We feel that not reaching the goal yet is annoying, and alarming, because of the contrast between where we are, and where we want to be. The problem arises when we allow that information to overwhelm us. "I haven't lost those 30 pounds, I've only lost 5." Black or White, Yes or No thinking. A simple fact is now known. Ineffective conclusion: "... and this is extremely awful because this is closer to the undesired thing and not the desired thing." Now this is a Black or White type of thinking error ... it's not extremely awful, it's not a reason to despair, it simply means we haven't reached the goal yet and feel an enormous desire to get there! That's actually good! It means we are motivated and know where we are between two points! The problem lies in how we think from that point on. Do we use the information as a spur to try harder, or be more patient with ourselves and consider that it may take longer to reach the goal than we thought? If so, great. But no ... we often get lost in the feeling of "Oh crud, I'm not there yet!" and begin to panic. THAT is where Black or White thinking becomes a weakness instead of a strength.

With another 25 pounds to go and feeling rather frustrated, the dieter may now consider the possibility of failure - this is normal, our brains want to help us by pointing out obstacles so they can be dealt with! So, we consider the worst - not being able to lose the other 25 pounds. Again, it's just information ... the healthy response would be to consider how to avoid that failure? How to fix what's wrong. But then another thinking error creeps in ... Catastrophizing ... and that is, considering a worst case scenario and then getting lost in the information ... allowing a negative potential outcome to emotionally overwhelm us into immobility! See how other thinking errors can then spin off of one another?

One thing that leaps out in my mind, is how much thinking errors are caused by giving in to feelings of fear. I have come to almost loathe that emotion ... we humans need it, to stay safe, but we simply give it too much credence, allowing that internal danger signal to drive our thinking far too much into dark and depressing frames of mind! Another thing I've noticed is how thinking errors feed off of one another. Black or White Thinking leads to Catastrophizing which leads to Globalizing ... and on and on. These errors have to be nipped in the bud somewhere along the line before they can form a negative chain of thoughts that reproduces like a mental virus! No wonder people become so pessimistic! Could it be that depressive states of mind are triggered and supported by feelings of fear skewing our normal, healthy thought patterns into Thinking Error cycles??? I remember reading that anxiety disorders are more common than depressive states ... could the former be the catalyst for the latter!? Maybe that's why anxiety and depression go hand in hand so often! Come to think of it, there are parallels between the nervous system overload of anxiety/stress and the neurological overload of Thinking Errors. Perhaps both are simply different but related ways our nervous systems react to temporary overwhelm? Could it be that humanity is simply being scared to death and buckling under too much information...? Perhaps pessimistic thinking is simply a loss of mental clarity, a disease of literally imbalanced thinking that gets reinforced by our capacity to automate our own thoughts - habitual thinking patterns? We are simply perpetually making ourselves unnerved due to an escalating overreaction to some original alarming trigger.

I've realized I've been using the proper form of Black or White thinking in a good way lately. I've been looking into the kinds of thinking that are diametrically opposed to areas in which I am rather weak. For example, I have some self-esteem and assertiveness issues holding me back. Contrasting my thinking patterns with those of people whose thinking is way too far in the opposite direction (inflated self-esteem, extreme assertiveness, selfishness, etc.) I am actually more clearly seeing where my own patterns of thinking are ineffective and not what I want! I am literally learning through extreme contrast, and since I have thinking patterns that make being excessively selfish and overly prideful feel very uncomfortable, I am avoiding the Black and White thinking trap, which in this case would be concluding that these other people are 100% right and I am 100% wrong. That would simply turn me into a cynic or a Narcissist, and I definitely do NOT want those outcomes! No ... the truth lies in the grey between Black and White, but without seeing the contrasts, I would miss out on this important truth!

How can we effectively avoid Thinking Errors? I think we need to primarily relax, calm our nervous tension, and deliberately focus on the outcomes we want rather than the disasters we want to avoid. The human mind pays more attention to negative information than positive information because opportunities make life nicer, but threats can potentially kill us. Somewhere deep down, we still think that way. Fear strikes again. It is time we got wise to the ways our minds overreact to it, and steer our attention - and our lives - more deliberately towards the future we want.
Thanks for this!
Gus1234U

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  #2  
Old Oct 05, 2010, 12:41 PM
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Gus1234U Gus1234U is offline
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wow On2~! very Profound, and obviously the result of some serious Thinking~! i like it~ now,, could you aim that awesome brain at the effect of Magnification and Minimalization ? how is somethings seem so Important, when they are not, or so Critial, when they are not. or how can we overlook the most obvious glaring warning signals ever~! i hope you find this a task worth undertaking, because i have thought about it a lot and can't seem to come up with nearly as profound an explaination as you did, for Black and White thinking~! Gus
Thanks for this!
Onward2wards
  #3  
Old Oct 09, 2010, 10:14 AM
beggin for help beggin for help is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onward2wards View Post
I have been doing a lot of thinking about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy lately. What are those infamous "thinking errors", and why do I - and several other people on PC - find something a bit overstated about them? Well, I've had to reframe the concept a bit so it makes better sense to me. Thinking errors are simply a misapplication of decision making systems that are actually enormously USEFUL, as long as they are used in the right way at the right time! The problems arise when we do not use those systems properly, and that's all there is to it - the devil is simply in the details.

Let's consider Black and White Thinking, for one. I prefer to think of this cognitive process as simply Learning Through Extreme Contrast. It makes sense - we can see, for example, because we can perceive contrasts between light and dark. By extension, if you have a goal, have you reached it yet, Yes or No? Have we accomplished something of significance that we see someone else accomplishing, Yes or No? It is a way of reducing ambiguity (which the human brain seems to understandably dislike), and it saves brain power! Entirely logical and healthy in and of itself. However, like all ways of thinking, it can be misapplied; the misapplication of it can be rightly called a Thinking Error, and these misapplications work against us!

For example, we can clearly see when we have not reached a goal yet, and this gives us a signal to consider that fact. Is there a better way? Are we on track? We feel that not reaching the goal yet is annoying, and alarming, because of the contrast between where we are, and where we want to be. The problem arises when we allow that information to overwhelm us. "I haven't lost those 30 pounds, I've only lost 5." Black or White, Yes or No thinking. A simple fact is now known. Ineffective conclusion: "... and this is extremely awful because this is closer to the undesired thing and not the desired thing." Now this is a Black or White type of thinking error ... it's not extremely awful, it's not a reason to despair, it simply means we haven't reached the goal yet and feel an enormous desire to get there! That's actually good! It means we are motivated and know where we are between two points! The problem lies in how we think from that point on. Do we use the information as a spur to try harder, or be more patient with ourselves and consider that it may take longer to reach the goal than we thought? If so, great. But no ... we often get lost in the feeling of "Oh crud, I'm not there yet!" and begin to panic. THAT is where Black or White thinking becomes a weakness instead of a strength.

With another 25 pounds to go and feeling rather frustrated, the dieter may now consider the possibility of failure - this is normal, our brains want to help us by pointing out obstacles so they can be dealt with! So, we consider the worst - not being able to lose the other 25 pounds. Again, it's just information ... the healthy response would be to consider how to avoid that failure? How to fix what's wrong. But then another thinking error creeps in ... Catastrophizing ... and that is, considering a worst case scenario and then getting lost in the information ... allowing a negative potential outcome to emotionally overwhelm us into immobility! See how other thinking errors can then spin off of one another?

One thing that leaps out in my mind, is how much thinking errors are caused by giving in to feelings of fear. I have come to almost loathe that emotion ... we humans need it, to stay safe, but we simply give it too much credence, allowing that internal danger signal to drive our thinking far too much into dark and depressing frames of mind! Another thing I've noticed is how thinking errors feed off of one another. Black or White Thinking leads to Catastrophizing which leads to Globalizing ... and on and on. These errors have to be nipped in the bud somewhere along the line before they can form a negative chain of thoughts that reproduces like a mental virus! No wonder people become so pessimistic! Could it be that depressive states of mind are triggered and supported by feelings of fear skewing our normal, healthy thought patterns into Thinking Error cycles??? I remember reading that anxiety disorders are more common than depressive states ... could the former be the catalyst for the latter!? Maybe that's why anxiety and depression go hand in hand so often! Come to think of it, there are parallels between the nervous system overload of anxiety/stress and the neurological overload of Thinking Errors. Perhaps both are simply different but related ways our nervous systems react to temporary overwhelm? Could it be that humanity is simply being scared to death and buckling under too much information...? Perhaps pessimistic thinking is simply a loss of mental clarity, a disease of literally imbalanced thinking that gets reinforced by our capacity to automate our own thoughts - habitual thinking patterns? We are simply perpetually making ourselves unnerved due to an escalating overreaction to some original alarming trigger.

I've realized I've been using the proper form of Black or White thinking in a good way lately. I've been looking into the kinds of thinking that are diametrically opposed to areas in which I am rather weak. For example, I have some self-esteem and assertiveness issues holding me back. Contrasting my thinking patterns with those of people whose thinking is way too far in the opposite direction (inflated self-esteem, extreme assertiveness, selfishness, etc.) I am actually more clearly seeing where my own patterns of thinking are ineffective and not what I want! I am literally learning through extreme contrast, and since I have thinking patterns that make being excessively selfish and overly prideful feel very uncomfortable, I am avoiding the Black and White thinking trap, which in this case would be concluding that these other people are 100% right and I am 100% wrong. That would simply turn me into a cynic or a Narcissist, and I definitely do NOT want those outcomes! No ... the truth lies in the grey between Black and White, but without seeing the contrasts, I would miss out on this important truth!

How can we effectively avoid Thinking Errors? I think we need to primarily relax, calm our nervous tension, and deliberately focus on the outcomes we want rather than the disasters we want to avoid. The human mind pays more attention to negative information than positive information because opportunities make life nicer, but threats can potentially kill us. Somewhere deep down, we still think that way. Fear strikes again. It is time we got wise to the ways our minds overreact to it, and steer our attention - and our lives - more deliberately towards the future we want.
I really hate to admit it, cause I should not be so impatient, but I only read bits and pieces of this post. I don't do good with lots of words coming at me. You sound like a very smart individual and I would do good to read more of your post, I just didn't so I just wanted you to know that I think I know everything, but I don't have the patience to learn it. Sorry
Thanks for this!
Onward2wards
  #4  
Old Oct 11, 2010, 11:19 AM
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pachyderm pachyderm is offline
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Why think in blacks and whites, yeses or noes, rights or wrongs? Because if you don't get the correct answer ("this is a tiger") immediately, the saber-toothed tiger may eat you. Evolutionarily speaking, the brain, or the reactive part of it, may be programmed to make life-or-death decisions instantaneously. Unfortunately it can make the wrong decisions instantaneously, too.

But if you miss identifying the tiger and it is a tiger, you die and your brain's tendencies do not get passed on to the next generation. If you think it is a tiger and it is not, your tendencies probably still do get passed on.

Unless, of course, the thing you thought was a tiger is a human instead.
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Now if thou would'st
When all have given him o'er
From death to life
Thou might'st him yet recover
-- Michael Drayton 1562 - 1631
  #5  
Old Oct 14, 2010, 06:22 AM
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pachyderm pachyderm is offline
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Tiger?

"How do we tell the difference between real threats and bogus ones?"

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...eep-fear-alive
__________________
Now if thou would'st
When all have given him o'er
From death to life
Thou might'st him yet recover
-- Michael Drayton 1562 - 1631
Thanks for this!
Onward2wards
  #6  
Old Oct 16, 2010, 01:54 PM
RyuB RyuB is offline
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wow, the thought you put into that is impressive. i hope it circulates through my subconcious and helps even a little.

the only thing i've managed that seems anywhere near this is to keep telling myself that my anxiety attack is like the smoke detector going off because you're having a too-steamy shower. i keep telling myself my body is lying to me. it hasn't made the condition go away, but i can function through it.

is this the sort of thing you are meaning?
Thanks for this!
Onward2wards
  #7  
Old Oct 16, 2010, 04:36 PM
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pachyderm pachyderm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuB View Post
i keep telling myself my body is lying to me.
When things are bad, I don't know what is a lie and what is the truth...
__________________
Now if thou would'st
When all have given him o'er
From death to life
Thou might'st him yet recover
-- Michael Drayton 1562 - 1631
  #8  
Old Oct 16, 2010, 06:03 PM
sane1logic1 sane1logic1 is offline
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Member Since: Oct 2007
Location: UK
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I just love shades of grey ...

To move and grow from grey to grey ...

(truly colourful of course)

It helped me (with my meds) to get this far and now I can see the next stage better.
  #9  
Old Oct 16, 2010, 07:05 PM
RyuB RyuB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pachyderm View Post
When things are bad, I don't know what is a lie and what is the truth...
well in my case, i recognize the physical symptoms i guess due to years of dealing with it and dealing with the same physical symptoms every time. once i notice them and realize i'm having an attack, (it takes a while sometimes) then i can try to deal with it. i find the ones that mostly affect my body are easier to deal with, when it gets bad enough that my brain starts to fry, i couldn't tell the difference between a cockroach and a chocolate bar. lol once i was in this situation and putting groceries away. it took 3 weeks to find the toilet paper - in the freezer. in the midst of my attack, at the time, it was perfectly logical to put it there.
  #10  
Old Oct 16, 2010, 07:47 PM
sane1logic1 sane1logic1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuB View Post
wow, the thought you put into that is impressive. i hope it circulates through my subconcious and helps even a little.

the only thing i've managed that seems anywhere near this is to keep telling myself that my anxiety attack is like the smoke detector going off because you're having a too-steamy shower. i keep telling myself my body is lying to me. it hasn't made the condition go away, but i can function through it.

is this the sort of thing you are meaning?
I think this is the sort of thing in my experience. The worst is, with me it doesn't only happen during panic attacks - it shapes my assumptions when I am "calm" too. That hampers my relationships and my sense of initiative, big time. The alarm is going off all the time.
Thanks for this!
Onward2wards
  #11  
Old Oct 16, 2010, 07:52 PM
RyuB RyuB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sane1logic1 View Post
I think this is the sort of thing in my experience. The worst is, with me it doesn't only happen during panic attacks - it shapes my assumptions when I am "calm" too. That hampers my relationships and my sense of initiative, big time. The alarm is going off all the time.
i don't want to try to be a doctor, i may be totally out to lunch, but could it be you're still having the attacks without the physical symptoms? i used to have the mental without the physical.
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