mental illness and deep thinking

Hi - checked the board after several days and all the replies have been varied and it shows how individual everyone is. I personally dont find the deep thinking a good thing and I dont think its totally disassociation Seraphim. I think shared aspects of deep thinking are the same as in disassociation ie in that the usual personality is not there. However in DD; its a completely different person, which isnt the situation in a deep thinking/ medication/trance mode. Venus, I dont have a problem with the deep thinking, and its wonderful to know that you feel that is a creative and valued part of you. From my perspective I think its a place that doesnt provide answers, that can deaden the mind, eradicate the personality, and possibly put other personas there. I do think its an aspect of mental illness; / creativity / science. Im not a person who likes to pathologise every trait but I do think that its an aspect of mental illness- its an opinion. Sounds like science fiction or hollywood's inception. The other aspect is that in being a deep thinker, I go into an almost trance like mode. Im sort of a sensitive person and I think tht deep thinking can take one into spiritual worlds that one cannot return from. I think that for sensitives or whatever one calls it, if they have too many shocks or consistent suffering (emotional /mental/physical/ spiritual/ I think that the mind is eradicated - through shock, trauma, pharma pills, cruelty, isolation the list is as endless. They have therapy, get better and have what I think of , as the socially cloned personality - which is acceptable and conformed - like Audrina from the Hills or Sharon Osborne. Of course I wouldnt want people to be too weird or wacky but I do think we should be aware of ourselves as human beings; as individuals. Ive read lots of these psych, religious/ philosophy/ ideas but I really think you have to find your own truth -whatever that is for you.

Im not sure but its sort of revealed to me that deep thinking is a path to a deep spiritual world like the atlantic ocean, full of souls and spirits and powerful minds - possibly. So I would not recommend anyone this.

And again... the spirituality wrong? If handled well, deep thinking and spirituality can be very useful.

Yes, one can use deep thinking against themselves... but is it a reason to fear any deeper thought?

When one learns to handle their thoughts... they can achieve brilliance.

Hello, mala. I find your posts to be somewhat enigmatic. You do not find deep thinking to be a good thing. Deep thinking puts you in a place without answers, can deaden the mind, eradicate the personality, and possibly put other personae there. You worry you will not be able to return from this place. Professional treatment leaves one with a socially cloned personality.

I was left wondering how you make decisions. You tell us you have "... read lots of these psych, religious/ philosophy/ ideas but I really think you have to find your own truth -whatever that is for you." I agree. Each of us will decide what our own truth is.

My question remains, how do you find your own truth without thinking about it?

I got this in a fortune cookie once:

"Life is a tragedy for those who feel and a comedy for those who think."

And I absolutely believe that, and realize that we don't have to choose only one of those things. I saved it and put it in my photo album with a picture of my grandparents. They went through a lot in their youth (I won't even tell you save to say WWII, and many other oddities), and aging has not been kind to them. My grandmother is the most cheerful mid-to late-stage Alzheimers captive I have ever seen, and my grandfather, while going blind and at times lamenting the strangeness and tragedies of his history (he'll be 90 this year), also cracks jokes, and I love to hear him laugh. Life is an odd thing, to be sure.

Two of my heroes are Carl Sagan and George Carlin, people who were visionary and shared what they saw in the world in a way that made us think deeply about humanity and the universe. Carl Sagan shared his passion for the wondrous indifference of nature and the universe, the singular curiosity of our species existing in it at all. George Carlin showed us how to laugh at our foibles and our bitterness. It is all tragic and awesome, and our fragility and the ironies of our mere existence are what make it beautiful. The only ugly things in it are the hurtful things we do to each other and ourselves. It is only after we understand our place in all of this, realizing how small we are, that we find ourselves and become precious to each other. It's a matter of perspective.

I don't think there's anything wrong with all of this. Mental illness can rob us of that objectivity. What causes despair is the narrow-mindedness, the tunnel vision of depression that shuts out everything beautiful and forces us to focus on only the horrors of life. The beauty is always there, but it's sometimes very hard to make out through our own personal clouds, at times tangibly and bleakly opaque.

There is so much more to see. That is the truth.

This isn't completely accurate, Mala. In DD's on the severe end of the spectrum you *may* find a completely different person, though not always. This would be DID (previously known as MDP). However, DD's are on a spectrum from very mild to very severe, such as brief episodes of feeling as though nothing around you is real -> DID/MPD, with many things in between. Also, everyone dissociates to some degree, "highway hypnosis" and "day dreaming" are common forms of dissociation that would not be considered disordered unless they interfere with life.

So, Mala, do you believe you thought your way into mental illness? Or just thought your way into a depression by thinking about dee
ply sad truths? I dont understand. I dont watch the hills or sharon osborn. Can
someone tell me what' s wrong with these people?

If the "deep thinking" is like "spacey" where someone can speak to me and i don't even hear them, then i fee now, someone needed to bring me back to the present reality. Since i have mental illness and was diagnosed 37 years ago, anything i do or say is "mental". Hope this helps.I

De Profundis Clamavi Ad Te Domine...

Deep thinking, very interesting thread and something I do think about. I have always been a deep thinker. I just had assumed every person was that way. And I do come from a long line of deep thinkers genetically.

And people have told me that I am extremely deep and intelligent people tell me that they enjoy my depth and people who are not deep often truely cannot follow how deep I go. And I haven't really met anyone yet that goes deeper than me, I thought about my father possibly but I can go deeper than him and because he is older now, I can't get as deep as I would like with him anymore. And yet I wonder is he might have been deeper than I realized too because he is a quiet man.

When we talk about deep thinkers it doesn't mean mental illness. I we allow ourselves to think about the individuals that have offered some real imput about gravity and the theory of relativity, and electricity and that list goes on and on. Even the current ability to understand the different disorders and how they present themselves in different individuals, there was never any shallow thinking involved there.

The average person traveling on a bus to a destination may look out the window or at other people and just drift in a shallow state of mind. But a deep thinking is like Einstein who goes way past that and thinks about speed and time and he just went deeper than so many other people ever go. And even Steve Jobs had a tremendous ability to go deep and come up with so many things that we have at our disposal today. So, deep is not dark by any means, it a place that reaches beyond everything we take in and shelve as memories and information and then dives into an intelligence of taking all that information and formulating new knowledge and ideas.

If we didn't have the deep thinkers, we would not have anything we have now. And even the primates present deep thinkers that can see a need and really concentrate on how to fill that need to create a new tool.

Many times I have come across people who just don't seem to think. And I wonder how they even manage. And some of these people get so rattled because they just can't go deep. And it took me a while to figure that out because I just assumed other people were just like me and even smarter than me and I never considered myself intelligent at all.

And at my age now I see a lot more than I realized and I also see how I was different and what that means. And I was always analyzing things, always. And on lots of different levels. And I always seemed to notice things others don't see and I can see that more now looking back.

I would not short change deep thinking. Because when we use that part of the brain we often disengage the part of the brain that involves anxiety, fear and emotions. And I understand how some may consider a disassociation aspect of that deep thinking because in some ways it does remove someone from the immediate external shallow thinking patterns that easily allow the areas of anxiety and fear and confusion take place. But I do not think disassociation has that much depth to it, I think that type of thinking just disengages all thought into a kind of void area.

And if I engage that part of my brain, I can come up with some interesting concepts and a better understanding of realities that many others do not see. And I press beyond an immediate assumption of disillusionment, I am more interested in the Reality of a situation and some real understanding and resolve.

And people who deep think can even get to a point where they also can disengage and some answer can be presented. My dad had a customer who was brilliant and I think some of the inventors did this too. This customer would be discussing a situation or issue with my father and all of a sudden he would be asleep. And then he would wake up all of a sudden and have some kind of new idea or resolve of some kind. And I think Benjamin Franklin did that if I am not mistaken. And I know I do that too because I can go to sleep and my brain doesn't stop it just works at things in a very deep way. And often I will wake up and the answer is there and other times I can see the answer while I am sleeping but I just cant retrieve it when I wake up and dam I get so mad because it was there just on the other side of awakening.

And this is not a disorder, my solutions are not distorted or twisted, they are real.
And I don't know if anyone here can even understand or relate to what I am discribing. And I really thought everyone did that, hense the saying, "I will sleep on it".

Can someone with a distorted mind or disorder deep think in a bad way? Well that could be possible. But what I DO know is that some of the historical architecture that is so intricate most likely came from some significant deep thinking. When I watch programs that insist there must have been aliens during those times where the architectural advances are so hard to imagine for those time periods, I believe there were some very deep thinking brillant people even back then.

The human brain is full of things that we have not yet recognized. And we don't even use all of our brains. And I have noticed things about animals and some are very smart. Training horses is amazing because after a good workout in teaching them something, they do think about it afterwards. And some horses really like to think and be challenged and they are right there with you and very receptive and they want to engage and they even get frustrated as they are engagaing and are trying to learn something. And dogs? They can learn so much too and we are now studying to see if animals do actually have the ability to love and attach like we do and I know they have remorse.

The brain of a horse is the size of a walnut. Just like us, some are smarter than others and they have a capacity to learn so very much. The brain is an amazing thing.

Open Eyes

Mabye she not thinking anything ,but just zoned out . Depression takes no prisoner,s an you have nothing to say, so you trance out to nowhere land.

Everyone here seems to find deep thinking a positive experience and something they value.Its odd, there are many people who value their DD, OCD etc and I find that shocking.I guess its all about persepective, I guess I really admire people that are logical ,grounded and scientific because Ive always wtd to be like that instead of being dreamy. Of course deep thinkers are scientists, as they are artists, inventors, writers etc. This world is as real as it gets, Im not a science buff, however my conclusion is that the lost wonderlands of deep thinking are great but these spiritual worlds of deep thinkers are illusion. We humans need our myths, fantasies and illusions. Ive met people ( in the past) totally hooked on their visions, and their spiritual sensualised feelings, deep thinking - all kinds. Ok - whatever you do in your spare time is your biz - no prob. However when they start getting visions and misinterpreting for you and the rest of the world - thats not good, when they are in such deep thinking that they cannot come back to reality that is not good. I guess Im a low level thinker and dont need much to survive (food) .This isnt a rant - just my experience and knowledge of it - which isnt much given by the standard of knowledge here. Best wishes mala

There is an intimate connection between creativity of all kinds, including original thought, and mental illness. Just check out a few bios of key artists and scientists from history.

The 'normal' mind is the mind whose thoughts run straight, as if on rails. The destination is sure to be reached but the normal mind will rarely see exotic vistas.

The creative mind is chaotic, changing, unstable. It goes every which way. Nine times out of ten that leads nowhere. But that tenth time is a thought that may change the whole world or an image that moves the hearts of millions.

Its ugliness and beauty in one package. What is good for humanity is rarely good for the individual.

So what do you want to do about your "deep thinking" mala, if you view it as distressing?

How do you want to think? How do you want to achieve that?

Hello Mala, Have you ask her where she go's when she is deep in thought? She just may have an answer for you! I am glad you came back from your out of mind experience! It does make you wonder though. Doesn't it?

Dont get me wrong, I think its wonderful that you guys love deep thinking, its comforting and relaxing and so much more. I havent found that. If any of you are Stephen King fans, there is a book called needful things. The story is about a man (I guess he's the devil aka an evil so and so) and he gives some sunglasses to a character in the book. She spends her days wearing the sunglasses transfixed in her fantasy world. She enjoyed her world. When I was in my fantasy world which had nothing to do with the devil just people and their own shadow (evil ) self. I didnt enjoy that world and I dont exist in it anymore, but my brain is a taking a bit of time to get to its old self again. Im doing all I can and Im practising being present , I think its meditation and they use it in buddhism. I wish I had practised this earlier, as its clean, non political and non religious and no doctrine etc. Im not sure what my mind is about, as I think it sort of checked out awhile back, but obviously its working as Im typing away, I think I have an overactive imagination, that is slightly academic, I like to debate and discuss, and write blogs. I guess its a way of coping. I think Im still emotionally recovering, there is no cure and its a daily struggle and process. But Im grateful that I found the mindfulness technique.
Best wishes
Mala

Why would someone need to control people? Think about it (please). If it is a need, a compulsion, is that person free, is that person someone we should admire, worship even? Someone whom we should let concern us so much? If we do let it, what is that telling us about ourselves?

Maybe the deadened mind comes before the deep thinking? Maybe the person tries the deep thinking in order to try to solve some serious problems?

Ive worked with the elderly for example, they feel very helpless and that sometimes shows itself as in controlling behaviours, its usually out of fear and insecurity. I know that there are some fantastic carers who dont manage too well when the person they are caring for gets better. They dont mean anything, but they can unconciously want that person to get ill again. It is a form of control - its creating dependency when there is no need for it. But they have a need, their identity, income, position, role can depend on that person that was ill, it all they may talk about. So control can be subtle and loving.
I think the deep thinking does find answers for some, creativity, comfort and escapism (from the cruel world - excuse the pun). The mind is deadened and when the deep thinking is there, thats all there is.

I think the deep thinking does find answers for some, creativity, comfort and escapism (from the cruel world - excuse the pun). The mind is deadened and when the deep thinking is there, thats all there is.

I still fail to see the point you are trying to make here. What do you define as deep thinking? Thinking about deep subjects (sense of life, yadda yadda) or depressive thoughts?

I don't think deep thinking deadens the mind... Not any more than shallow thinking.

Its seems somewhat normal;

The mind does it , for me, when I need an answer to something, usually a pressing one. Sometimes its a stuffed problem I do not share, for whatever reason, with anyone else.
I would try to meditate, or reflect on the past, bring the problem to light, and deal with it;by seeking info. sharing with "safe",other(s),or just deciding to act, on my gut,intuition, instincts. BB

IS this deep thinking achieved in remission, because there is no chance of you deep thinking your way out of anything in cronic depression. Come on your mind is lost in depression, a thick fog is what you see . If deep thinking is achieved, mental illness like cronic depression is not present in my opinion.

If it were not for profound [Deep] thinking,or thinkers for the matter,we as a species would be rather dull. There would have been no Mozart,no Beethoven,no Walt Whitman,or any of the great artists and composers that we have had. I believe it is the deep thinkers in our world who inspire others by their creativity. In my humble opinion any way.

I would imagine , most great painters , writer,s. composer,s, ect ect . were deeply disturbed people, with flash,s of genius. Most died young with mental torture, so they couldnt deep think there way out that one could they.

I realise that deep thinking is a positive process for you guys. Did some research on psych central and I think that its not deep thinking but depersonalisation with dissociative traits. Sorry thought everyone found it a negative experience.
mala