why is cynicism considered a bad thing?

venusss · Sep 26, 2011, 05:08 AM

Okay, so I can be a rough person. I have this way of talking and humor which may be too much for some. But than, others find it entertaiming

I have been told in the past that cynicism is a defense mechanism and that I should let go and learn to love. The thing is I think I can love and care for, although I am bit uncomfortable with me being fussed about. It does not go well with the whole strong woman premise.

To me my cynicism and tough demeanor are like walls (iron curtain?) I build around myself to see who will bother to climb over these to get to my soul. I don't reward visas to my soul to everybody. Maybe out of selfprotection... maybe because I can only care this much. I need my friends to be intriguing and interesting in some way. I just cannot bring myself to care deeply on soul level for somebody just because they are alive...

There were times I would dress in kinda outrageous fashion just to see who can see beyond my red eyeshadow and mismatched clothes... oh, I still do dress weirdly if somebody was to comment on that

.

but is this really a bad thing? Isn't it better than being vulnerable all the time? Yes, maybe i need to let go from time to time and tone it down and I am really working on sitting with my feelings (and dealing with emotions in mature way instead of doing various stupid things to lessen them or escape them or substitute them for something else) and at times I am failing miserably. I know this.

But is cynicism a bad thing overall? Eventhough it is a defense mechanism, don't we all need those defense mechanism?

Sep 26, 2011, 05:20 AM

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...u-social-cynic

eskielover · Sep 26, 2011, 05:51 AM

I found this writeup about the history of cynicism to be very educational
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism & it had NOTHING to do in it's original form as being a defense mechanism, it was a philosophy of life which I can completely relate to & find that this philosophy is actually fits my life.

However, the contemporary form of cynicism.......well there is quite a contrast between them but I still think it's quite appropriate to apply to the world in the shape it's in (Cynicism is distrust of other's apparent motives. It is a form of jaded negativity, and other times realistic criticism or skepticism) How can one feel differently about the world we live it???? I don't mistrust everyone I come in contact with. I am very discerning in who & what I apply my cynicism to & it IS NOT a defense mechanism. It's a serious & honest view of the world I see around me that can't be denied as being real.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(contemporary)

Think the way we apply it & how we present our thoughts about our cynicism may be what determines how others may see it as being a bad thing.

Just some of my thoughts on the topic.

madisgram · Sep 26, 2011, 07:38 AM

venus it appears that your defense mechanisms are hindering you, imo. what are the specific causes of your hiding behind the wall? distrust seems to be one of the causes but only you know why you feel that way. just me but if you get to the root causes it will be more helpful to overcome your fears. i do believe we all need to protect ourselves and set boundaries with others by asserting ones self. but quite honestly i feel you have taken this to extreme and denying yourself lots of joy in your life.
this is a long article but it may help you define your own distrust and suggestions for letting down that wall in a healthy way. hope this helps.
http://www.beyondintractability.org/essay/distrust/

Omers · Sep 26, 2011, 07:51 AM

I too came upon cynicism as a philosophy. I liked it and found a lot of merit in it so I brought it up with my T at the time... DUH! I don't think she understood a bit of it, but left crying hysterically running for her supervisor 2hrs into the session (it was supposed to be a 50 min session). I guess it is a philosophical stance T's find difficult. dunno... I don't see problem with it provided, like most things, you don't go extremest with it.

Ygrec23 · Sep 26, 2011, 08:19 AM

Cynicism is and has been in the past many things to many people. I think of today's majority use of cynicism as being a corrective lens, like eyeglasses, required in modern life to see things as they are, rather than as the infinite number of imploring hucksters wish us to see them. A kind of personal spam-deletion mechanism.

So in that sense, I guess, you could indeed call it a defense mechanism, but then you risk getting involved in all the arguments and disagreements that have cropped up over the other, natural defense mechanisms. I'd prefer, myself, just to leave it as a conscious personal option to use when you're tired of having been suckered once again by those seeking to take advantage of you.

Anyone who denies the necessity of cynicism in today's world is obviously either dissociating like mad or a tool of the other side, the flim-flam people if you will, whether consciously or unconsciously. Fifty years ago, "Little Mary Sunshine" was funny. Today it's either a tragedy or a horror movie, take your pick.

SophiaG · Sep 26, 2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omers

I too came upon cynicism as a philosophy. I liked it and found a lot of merit in it so I brought it up with my T at the time... DUH! I don't think she understood a bit of it, but left crying hysterically running for her supervisor 2hrs into the session (it was supposed to be a 50 min session). I guess it is a philosophical stance T's find difficult. dunno... I don't see problem with it provided, like most things, you don't go extremest with it.

Whoa. You made your T cry.

Omers · Sep 26, 2011, 09:21 AM

Ygrec23:
wishing you could "thank" more than once!

Omers · Sep 26, 2011, 09:31 AM

SophiaG: actually she was in her final practicum before becoming a T. I made her choose another career... I later found out that was the intent of the director of the clinic when he paired me with her.

To stay sorta on topic... I think she was a polar opposite of a cynic... The epitomy of "don't worry, be happy", great yellow smiley faces and the like. I was there for severe PTSD and she said you are safe now, just be happy! ... I think my cynicism was 1. an accurate perception of my reality (even now some 12 yrs later) and 2. significantly healthier than her "don't worry, be happy" attitude that made her totally miss that she was being thrown out of her degree program 2nd semester of her final year.

A friend who had worked as a T once told me that he worried less about the cynics and the depressed as they at least have accurate reality testing which (in his opinion) cannot often be said of those we consider "healthy". The world sucks, is unsafe, and depressing... THAT is reality, not pretending to live the American dream by making sure you have a nice house with a white picket fence, 2.5 kids and what ever the popular dog is that season.

venusss · Sep 26, 2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eskielover

I found this writeup about the history of cynicism to be very educational
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism & it had NOTHING to do in it's original form as being a defense mechanism, it was a philosophy of life which I can completely relate to & find that this philosophy is actually fits my life.

However, the contemporary form of cynicism.......well there is quite a contrast between them but I still think it's quite appropriate to apply to the world in the shape it's in (Cynicism is distrust of other's apparent motives. It is a form of jaded negativity, and other times realistic criticism or skepticism) How can one feel differently about the world we live it???? I don't mistrust everyone I come in contact with. I am very discerning in who & what I apply my cynicism to & it IS NOT a defense mechanism. It's a serious & honest view of the world I see around me that can't be denied as being real.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(contemporary)

Think the way we apply it & how we present our thoughts about our cynicism may be what determines how others may see it as being a bad thing.

Just some of my thoughts on the topic.

I do too believe it has legitimate basis as a world view. But I came across too many well-meaning people who tried to convince me that bubbly puppies and rainbows optimism is the only way.

I strive to be this serene person who is at peace... I believe I can be dark and cynical and still aquire inner peace. That does not mean I will ignore the reality of the world.

Quote:

venus it appears that your defense mechanisms are hindering you, imo. what are the specific causes of your hiding behind the wall? distrust seems to be one of the causes but only you know why you feel that way. just me but if you get to the root causes it will be more helpful to overcome your fears. i do believe we all need to protect ourselves and set boundaries with others by asserting ones self. but quite honestly i feel you have taken this to extreme and denying yourself lots of joy in your life.

I don't know. Maybe this is helping me to enjoy life with all the joy as it is not infiltred with people I don't need there. And I just don't mean the bad people, but maybe people who are good persons... but wouldn't click with me.

It is not really a fear, imho. I do suffer bit social phobia and yes, I put on a tough mask... but what is the other option? I can be friendly to people when I want or when situation requires it. But for deeper friendships I need people who "get me" and with whom i will not have to pretend too much.

I never was an extrovert, so there is no use trying to make one of myself now... I need my relationships to be meaningful and for them to give me something. So... I test people.

Quote:

I too came upon cynicism as a philosophy. I liked it and found a lot of merit in it so I brought it up with my T at the time... DUH! I don't think she understood a bit of it, but left crying hysterically running for her supervisor 2hrs into the session (it was supposed to be a 50 min session). I guess it is a philosophical stance T's find difficult. dunno... I don't see problem with it provided, like most things, you don't go extremest with it.

yeah, that is one of the reasons I am avoiding therapy so far. I am afraid that not many Ts would get my "laughing beast" person (although it is a very Czech thing. But I found that many students of psychology became mellower and drier as they approach grasping their diploma).

I don't want to drop my world view altoghter. I am not a pessimist, I am just well informed optimist.

Quote:

Anyone who denies the necessity of cynicism in today's world is obviously either dissociating like mad or a tool of the other side, the flim-flam people if you will, whether consciously or unconsciously. Fifty years ago, "Little Mary Sunshine" was funny. Today it's either a tragedy or a horror movie, take your pick.

I have American prof who claims to be "a bit of Czech too, I love Moravia and I think Czechs are wonderful people and it is a wonderful country with amazing culture...". Only no self-respecting Czech would spew the word wonderful so many times in one statement.

Yeah, I admit sunshine people scare a little bit as it seems... either dishonest or dellusional as hell.

venusss · Sep 26, 2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

To stay sorta on topic... I think she was a polar opposite of a cynic... The epitomy of "don't worry, be happy", great yellow smiley faces and the like. I was there for severe PTSD and she said you are safe now, just be happy! ... I think my cynicism was 1. an accurate perception of my reality (even now some 12 yrs later) and 2. significantly healthier than her "don't worry, be happy" attitude that made her totally miss that she was being thrown out of her degree program 2nd semester of her final year.

wow. She seems kinda clueless. I find it in a way disrespectful to expect people who went through bad experience to be smiley-happy. Some experiences leave scars, even if you heal from them. But one is more serious, darker... they still may lead a productive life, but it is still there.

And TBH... do we really want to get over some things?

Sep 26, 2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Anyone who denies the necessity of cynicism in today's world is obviously either dissociating like mad or a tool of the other side, the flim-flam people if you will, whether consciously or unconsciously.

Nothing like making it personal. You say the nicest things. There may well be reason to be cynical, but no one is obliged to be.

madisgram · Sep 26, 2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

I don't know. Maybe this is helping me to enjoy life with all the joy as it is not infiltred with people I don't need there. And I just don't mean the bad people, but maybe people who are good persons... but wouldn't click with me.

It is not really a fear, imho. I do suffer bit social phobia and yes, I put on a tough mask... but what is the other option? I can be friendly to people when I want or when situation requires it. But for deeper friendships I need people who "get me" and with whom i will not have to pretend too much.

I never was an extrovert, so there is no use trying to make one of myself now... I need my relationships to be meaningful and for them to give me something.

perhaps i somewhat misinterpreted your original post, venus. i couldn't agree with you more about being selective with the ppl you choose to have in your life or exclude. so there we are on the same wave length.
i guess i see the word cynicism as negativity in something/someone and in some areas of the world i live in i have become a cynic. i dislike manipulation and ppl or groups of ppl that are dishonest or misleading especially for their own gain.

Ygrec23 · Sep 26, 2011, 11:59 AM

Venus said: "I don't want to drop my world view altoghter. I am not a pessimist, I am just well informed optimist."

I agree! With the proviso that a "well-informed optimist" must be a cynic, at least in part.

As we've seen on this thread, cynicism is many things to many people, with all kinds of things that can be added to it or subtracted from it, with limitations on its extent in any direction, and with direct relations to all kinds of other stances that can be taken vis-a-vis the world and its inhabitants.

Cynicism doesn't have to be a suit of armor that you put on in the morning and take off before going to bed. In my experience it's a bandaid that you put on a cut. You don't cover yourself in bandaids. There's no reason to be cynical if particular people/groups/interests/places/things haven't given you real reason to be so. Use it where it's appropriate!

There are places where it's not, like right here on PC. In a sense, when joining PC we each take an implied pledge of allegiance to the effect that we bind ourselves to take others as they present themselves, as they wish to be encountered, unless they give us obvious and continued reason not to do so. The basic agreement here to offer help and comfort in our various different ways isn't compatible with a generalized cynicism. But particular individuals (very few indeed) do seem to justify such an approach.

For many people, cynicism is taken automatically to include a touch of bitterness, but this need not be the case. Bitterness is appropriate only where there is betrayal of a specific, express trust: your husband, your wife, your doctor, your parents, whatever. It is indeed possible to have cynicism without bitterness, unless you're an adolescent emerging from a childhood in which you were brainwashed into believing that the world is perfect as it is. Young people with that background are justified in feeling bitter about the whole project.

So. I think Venus would agree that a philosophy of limited cynicism is the best. Cynicism where justified by fact and experience. Not cynicism applied with a broad brush across the board. (Except, of course, with regard to the finance industry.)

Happy trails to you!

TheDragon · Sep 26, 2011, 04:04 PM

As your friend - I love your cynicism and your hard outlook on life. This is not a carefree world as Western society would like us to believe. I don't think your cynicism is a problem, but part of who you are. CAN it cause problems? Yes. But at the end of the day it's who you are and I love it.

We both know that this is very much a society and world focused on being happy. Cynicism ties you down to reality and helps ground you. It's a trait of yours with both useful positives and hindering cons, but hey, it's you. You're both a cynic and a dreamer and I hope that never changes. Best of both worlds mashed into a crazy Czech chick.

Sep 26, 2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

This is not a carefree world as Western society would like us to believe.

I have no idea where you get this. I am quite cynical about many things, and must have missed the memo on carefree.

Open Eyes · Sep 26, 2011, 06:52 PM

Cynic: a person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness. 2. A member to a sect of ancient Greek philosophers who believed virtue is to be the only good and self-controled to be the only means of achieving virtue.

Cynical 1. Scornful of the motives, virtue, or integrity of others: a cynical distrust of friendly strangers; a cynical view of the average voter's intelligence 2. Expressing or exhibiting scorn and bitter mockery.

In 1596 we find the first instance of modern sense. The meaning "faultfinder" came naturally from the behavior of countless Cynics who in their pursuit of virtue pointed out the flaws in others. Such faultfinding could lead quite naturally to the belief associated with cynics of today that selfishness determines human behavior.

I suppose that in todays world it is very difficult for the younger group of individuals to not become somewhat cynical. And for the older group to leave this world and life itself being cynical.

Perhaps no one will be friendly in the future, so alone will each person be in their search for virtue.

No wonder why depression is growing like a plague in mankind.

Open Eyes

InnerPeaceSession · Sep 27, 2011, 02:45 AM

There is a time to be a cynic like anything else.
Discovering when this behavior does not serve you is the key.
I doubt that there is never a time for it.
Life is not always smooth and cooperative.

Sorry I was cynical about it.

elliemay · Sep 27, 2011, 07:41 AM

I think the word "cynical" has acquired some fairly negative connotations as of late. Overall, I think being cynical is a good thing. I think that we should neither believe nor trust everything and everyone that happens to pop up in our lives.

There are a lot of falsehoods and untrustworthy persons out there. No, not everything and everyone, but it is perhaps naive to think otherwise.

In its essence cynicism is not a negative view of the world, but IMO a evidence- based, realistic one.

It allows for a deliberate and thoughtful assessment of what's around us.

Like most things, however, cynicism, in the extreme, can undermine happiness because it can certainly lead to exclusion and isolation.

Sep 27, 2011, 08:38 AM

Quote:

When Bitterness Is Bad For You

Don't stop parroting Daily Show host Jon Stewart just yet, but a cynical outlook really can take years off of your life. Thanks to their nihilistic bent, cynics tend to engage in more self-destructive behaviors than their sunnier peers. Research has shown that they smoke and drink more, and are more likely to commit suicide.

Cynics also suffer and die from heart problems in disproportionate numbers. Cardiologist Donald Haas at New York's Mount Sinai Medical School found that suspicious people who suffer from heart disease are more than twice as likely as their more optimistic counterparts to end up gravely ill or hospitalized for their condition. Haas speculates that cynics may be less likely to follow doctors' orders—either out of spite or despondency. http://www.psychologytoday.com/print/20376

Quote:

What cynicism means today, and why cynics need a sanctuary.

Telling the truth can get you into hot water. As much as the world needs its cynics, it still doesn't REALIZE that it needs them. Cynics today are habitually castigated by politicians, corporate chieftains and other productive citizens with tidy lawns; they know that we're on to them, so they lump us with the lowest of the low. We're generally cast as the heavies in the black hats, counterproductive miscreants who broil babies when we're not spray-painting obscenities on public monuments. We're portrayed as masters of chicanery and intrigue, untrusting and untrustworthy. Since we're neither leaders nor followers, we're expected to get out of the way -- and the tidy-lawn folks get furious when we don't. Nobody loves a cynic, except maybe another cynic.

Even the dictionary definition of a cynic makes us look like scoundrels: "a faultfinding captious critic; esp. one who believes that human conduct is motivated wholly by self-interest."

http://www.i-cynic.com/whatis.asp

Open Eyes · Sep 27, 2011, 09:25 AM

I do admitt I am at times cynical, and I don't appreciate how it makes me feel.
I don't find anything truely attractive about being cynical other than it represents
a recognition of some real limitations of human beings. And I have experienced enough bad in my life where it would be extremely easy if not certain that I walk a line of becoming extremely cynical. And I honestly cannot blame anyone for becoming cynical and a devoted cynic.

But there becomes a point with it that one begins to also be cynical about themselves and then spiral downward into an awful place where that person has no desire to be productive at all. And I am seeing that more and more and there are those that profit from that condition in more ways than one can imagine. And often power and deceit feeds off of this cynicism that spreads and grows like a weed, it is even often incouraged so as to produce confusion and even anger and even a sense of powerlessness. While it is often expressed by many as sign of strength, it doesn't really work, it is not really received that way. Yes, it can repell many, but in that many could be a few that can show ways to push aside cynicism into a more productive way to think and view life and others. Someone who can prevent another from turning their cynicism onto themselves. So though it is very hard, I really try to keep an open mind so at the very least, I don't miss those few that enrich my life and bring me hope. And I do make efforts to avoid those that can only offer me ways to turn cynicism inward preventing me from any real growth.
It can be a challenging process to not totally give into cynicism allowing to eat away at ones own soul.

Open Eyes

Sep 27, 2011, 10:15 AM

There are healthier alternatives to cynicism which provide similar,more balanced security.

venusss · Sep 27, 2011, 10:29 AM

Byz, I am gonna be cynical... so what if I die few years younger than I would? My family from my mother's side lived scarily long.

And seriously, with my intellectualism and with whom am I... I cannot imagine living long without becoming cynical in the process. There will be on 90 year old Venus spewing rainbows.