People...

I'm starting to think people are just born with this ability to communicate with eachother easily and function socially. An ability I just don't have, and never had. How is it so easy for people to just talk to eachother? Why does it seem so easy, but it feels impossible for me? I never really talk about this. I guess I'm used to it in a way...I can't remember ever being different. But when I was a little kid, I could get away with crying or hiding behind certain people in social situations. I can't do that anymore, obviously.

I hate talking. I'm just not good at it, if that makes any sense. I'm always nervous. It takes effort for me to even make eye contact. But it's not that I don't want to talk to people...its just not worth the effort and what happens if I think anything went even a little bit wrong. It helps if I plan every little detail of the conversation. Every possible thing that could happen, what could go "wrong," every possible reponse to every possible thing...then, if things go wrong? I can't stop thinking about it for days, weeks, sometimes even months. There are a few instances of things I still think about sometimes, even though it has been years. It won't stop replaying in my head while I think about what that person must think of me now. They probably hate me, think I'm stupid, never want to talk to me again, etc...It makes me even more depressed and just want to hide and never talk to anyone ever again. If it's involving a friend, or even anything resembling a friend, I'm convinced the relationship is ruined forever and they must hate me now.

I should probably define what I even mean by doing something "wrong." Anything, and I mean anything not going perfectly right means it went wrong in my mind. If someone says something and I don't hear them and have to ask what they said more than once, I screwed up. If I tell a joke and people barely laugh, or don't at all, I definitely screwed up. A moment of silence? I screwed up. People don't hear what I said because I talk so quiet (ironically because of this very problem), I screwed up. Basically anything that isn't....I don't know, perfect in some way is what I consider wrong.

If one thing goes wrong I think I've ruined the friendship or whatever kind of relationship I had with the person. It makes me want to just isolate myself from everyone. I want friends, good friends, I really do. But I'm starting to think it's not worth this. Friends always disappear anyway, but only once they're friends. I don't try to make friends anymore. It's not worth the stress and pain of trying to make friends, and definitely not worth the pain of when they inevitably disappear once I'm close to them. So far this idea is working. The people I'm not friends with, but could be, haven't disappeared. I guess I just can't have friends.

I hate admitting fear but I'm terrified of rejection. I'm afraid of people disappearing, which feels a bit like being rejected. So if I convince myself constantly that anything I consider "wrong" means they have rejected me, or that everybody hates me, then....

The weird thing is, certain situations are much easier. Situations that are structured, planned, predictable, or that I'm familiar with are easier. I know what could typically happen, so it's easier to avoid screwing up everything. I can teach a class full of kids at a karate school just fine, but I can't have a normal conversation with one or two people. Teaching karate is structured, predictable. I know what will happen. But talking to one or two people? It won't work. I can't do it. I can also handle larger groups of people better than just a few though. I can sort of disappear in big groups, let the others talk. In smaller groups there is more attention on me. I can't hide. Chat rooms are also easier, because there it's just my words. There's alot less that I can screw up. I still have most of the same worries about saying things wrong though. I freak out and want to hide forever if I say something and then the chat room just happens to get quiet for a second. But overall, it's easier.

I've never talked about this because in a way, I'm used to it. I don't know what it's like to be any other way, because this has been going on for as long as I can remember. I don't know what it actually feels like to be able to talk to people easily, or to feel very close to friends. I know I need to see a T, for this and other issues. I finally realized this is what's keeping me from doing that. Great.

What the hell.

It sounds like you have social phobia. Have you ever had a real consultation to get a real diagnosis of yourself rather than these test results that you display on your about me page?

First of all, you are being a bit hard on yourself here. Your post here is well written and easy to read. I don't see a signal of thoughts that don't line up with direct reasoning skills. You have a valid concern, however many of the things that you discuss in this thread are things that many people are concerned about. And it is a well known fact that if we develope one or two good friends in our lives that is a blessing. Even people who may seem to have lots of friends and are successful communicators, can whisper and beneath their breath a wonder if they accomplished their conversation goal correctly.

Nemo, you cannot predict another persons ability to comprehend and respect you. There are just so many different variables that come with each individual person that it is impossible to know what they really think about us. If I were to meet you and you were quiet, kept to yourself and avoided eye contact, how I would perceive that behavior depends on what I have come to understand about people in general throughout my life. Some people may consider that behavior stuck up, I know because I was often quiet in school and later in life people told me that they thought I was just stuck up. Which was the farthest thing from the truth, I was painfully shy. So my perception of your behavior if I met you may be that of compassion and understanding.

And to the contrary of your beliefs, people don't usually pop out knowing how to be good communicators. Usually that process is gained by having some genetic ability but also having an atmosphere where these capacities are nurtured by parents, siblings and others supportive people. So these abilities are cultivated over time in each individual.

Now, a person that may have appeared to be well liked and have lots of friends was Ronald Regan. But if you were to peer into his biography, he really didn't have close friends other than his wife. What he was good at was what your discussing you can do here, he was comfortable giving speaches that were carefully designed with a cut and complete agenda. He was by all definition an actor who could present a predesigned package, that was his forte in life. Other than that, he didn't like to converse and chit chat with the crowd as it was truely out of his comfort zone.

I think that your truely giving yourself too much critisism as your trying to be exact and no one can truely be exact. The whole purpose of human interaction is learning how to present one's self in a way that enables others to feel that they too can present thoughts wether they are on target or not. And whenever we do present thoughts and ideas, everything we say will be debated as we all have our unique perceptions about ourselves and others. And if there is silence after we present our thoughts or concerns, it doesn't always mean we are wrong, it can mean that the other person may have to think about our message for a while.

Friends will always come and go, and they always need cultivating which can be time consuming. And many people accumulate friends simply because they search each person and see that person as useful and productive and worthy of cultivating. However as we all grow it is very likely that the friends we make along the way will also grow and might stray out of our lives, not because we did anything wrong, but maybe they just want to mingle and learn from others, or even see if they can control others etc.

Nemo, you are truely critiquing yourself too much. There really isn't any way you can get a positive reaction from everyone you interact with. All you can do is develope yourself and offer to share whatever you have. Wether another person is receptive or not doesn't always mean you were not perfect enough or that you failed or are not worthy. I do hope that you take time and find out a real diagnosis and perhaps you can get help in finding more peace with yourself, I think you deserve that Nemo.

(((((Nemo)))))

Open Eyes

Nemo, I've picked out some key points from your post and will offer my thoughts to you for your consideration.

I don't believe that people are "born" with the communication abilities you are wishing for. I sure wasn't! It took lots of work on my part to develop enough confidence in myself that I could communicate with others.

It appears to me that your biggest roadblock is wanting your communications to be perfect. That is an impossible goal - one I also had to accept because I have a tendency towards being a perfectionist. Sure, there are situations where it helps to consider what might come up in a conversation (usually professional situations - not social), so you have possible responses. Yet, I've discovered that people are amazing and will throw out ideas that you haven't considered. I've learned to enjoy those times, because I get to learn something new.

It is rare, if ever, that anyone will give a perfect speech or communicate their thoughts so perfectly that someone doesn't ask a question. Actually, if I am talking and no one questions me, it actually causes me to wonder if they were actually listening!

And to the final point I picked out - yes, those moments of silence can feel uncomfortable. Learn to appreciate those moments! It means the other people are truly listening, giving serious thought to what you have said and formulating their responses.

I don't know if this will help you. I have had to learn how to be able to talk to just about anyone. I've gotten better at it over the years.

I learned many if not most people like talking about themselves and their interests. I'm not a great talker so much as I am a good listener and I know how to remember a few things about people so I can fall back on asking about those things (How is your son/daughter/grandma/cat/dog? Did you buy that new car you were talking about/go on that vacation/win that award? I saw where your favorite sports team won/lost, as examples) to get them talking. I talk to street people, executives, teens, old people, foreigners, men, women, people with physical disabilities, store clerks, people who work where I do, people on the bus, and little babies sitting in shopping carts with their mommies standing next to them. Sometimes all I have gotten in return is "goo" or "hmpf" or a nod or "I don't speak English" shouted at me (in English!). I don't remember anyone stammering, blushing, suffering the agonies of anxiety; or saying anything that wasn't perfectly all right for the person to say, even if I didn't agree with it. Someone might have done these things, but because I am as self-involved as the next person, I didn't notice and wouldn't have judged the person poorly because of it. Everyone who isn't mean or hateful is okay with me. The best way to become a better communicator is to keep communicating. You can also read about bettering your communication, the public library has books on the subject, take a class in public speaking or an intro to theater course, or join an organization like Toastmasters. I hope this helped.

You are not alone. I can facilitate a meeting, and give a presentation yet have a lot of difficulty with the small talk or chit chat. Structure makes it easier.
I have discovered a few ways to make it easier I would like to share with you.
We focus on ourselves, and our lives, and what is important to us. So when you are in a social situation it is pretty easy to get people to start talking about themselves, for example what are you doing over the holidays? I am looking into a vacation. have you gone anywhere interesting lately, that's a nice necklace, where did you get it?
The more people you talk to, the more you will get comfortable, and make friends.
I know it sounds simple, but it has really worked for me. I am bipolar and have social issues, this is one of the things I do to help with that.

Hey Nemo. I used to be almost exactly like you in terms of wanting to communicate perfectly. It's amazing how much you said in your post that I can directly relate to. I feel like I was left out big time in terms of socialism. And whenever I made a mistake like talking too quietly, I would feel like I lost all respect from the person I was trying to socialize with. One of my biggest problems was starting a conversation though. Because I have overcome many (not all...) of these crippling social problems, so I thought maybe I could help you too. Here are some things you could try around a new group of people you have never been around before:

1 Remember you do not have to talk to everyone, at every time of the day.
2 Always try to make an excuse to start a conversation, as soon as you come into contact with a new person as possible. Even if it is a dumb reason. This will make people overlook your conversation "mistakes", because their first impression of you will be that you are open enough to begin talking.
3 Pretend like nothing offends you, and that you do not take anything seriously. I often smile when someone insults me and be like "Huuh?? " even though I am secretly thinking something maniacal such as "I would be fond of popping your sweet eyes out right now". It usually turns out the other person was only joking and often jokes the same way with other people too.
4 When you know someone does not like you, or when you suspect it, do not let on. Interact with that person the same way you always do. Eventually they may even forget why they dislike you. People are pretty shallow when it comes to this stuff if you ask me. It's all about how they feel.
5 Remember that you will often encounter rude people. The best way to deal with them is ignore them and pretend like they do not phase you. Do not allow yourself to contemplate the stupidity of others, especially if you do not have to interact with them again.
6 Do not give up on conversing with a person because of your mistakes. If you do not ignore your mistakes, people will think that you have stopped talking to them because you do not like them. Remember, if you are frowning, extroverts are likely to think it is because you do not like them rather than you are tired or upset about something that does not involve them.
These are things I have learned from experience. You can tell I have a rather low opinion of humanity.. Anyway, I hope something I said can be of assistance. Good luck to you.

I really appreciate seeing this issue verbalized in the way you have put it. I have this same tendency to almost become a different person in some contexts. I am socially avoidant and, yet, can be confident with interpersonal interactions in certain types of situations. When I read the word "structured" in your comment about where you can feel comfortable, it made me feel less alone in my experience. Also, I understand what you mean when you say "The weird thing is . . . " It's like we have two different modes that we can operate in. There is one where we feel effectively functional, and there is one where we don't. Between the two is quite a disconnect.

I have actually been told a few times by other people that they couldn't get over how I seemed like someone who was "out of it" or "troubled" or had some kind of a real problem, and then they would see me seem like I was just fine and tuned in and had a good personality - in specific situations. The way they described me, it sounded like they, too, were saying that it seemed weird to them that I could almost be two different people.

I'm not talking about any kind of multiple personality thing, and I'm sure you are not either, Nemo. In structured situations, like in some jobs I've had, I could interact with complete confidence. (Like I just knew exactly what my role was and how to play it and even enjoy it.) Then I would walk into the cafeteria at the job and go sit at a table by myself because I felt clueless about how to join other people for lunch. I read that persons with this kind of pattern tend to over-monitor themselves and self-criticize a lot. What I haven't found is any real good advice on how to not do that.

Over the years, I've improved a lot. That happened real slowly. At the rate I am learning how to interpret social cues, I just won't live long enough to ever be what I would consider normal, socially. It is a cross to bear and, outside of Psych Central, I don't run into others who discuss experiencing this.

I think Caretaker Leo has some good insight. His point about people not being born with good communication abilities sounds true to me. Then he identifies perfectionism as being a trait that can make it harder to become socially more skillful. He must be on to something, because I've been told repeatedly by therapists and others who just know me that I am overly focused on having things I do or say be just exactly right, which is very inhibiting on spontaneity.

Here are some old sayings that I try to keep in mind:

"Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

"Good enough is good enough."

"He who makes no mistakes does nothing."

I think, Nemo, that you already apply these principles on many fronts of your life. You have things that you succeed at. The tricky thing is to apply that thinking to social, or interpersonal, relations. I'll be the first to admit - easier said than done. Anxiety is a real bear of a problem. I've heard professional entertainers say that the only way to get good at what they do is to be totally willing to endure the pain of making a complete fool of yourself. I think that's what we may be fearing when we fear rejection.

Kind of a rambling post. Mainly, I wanted to say: "I can relate."

Hi nemo. I read the entire threat and there are a lot of good ideas, insights here.

I just want to add that I had social anxiety disorder, that made my teens a hell. Later when I was 21 or so I started doing a lot of self-help and it really worked! Here are some names of books I thought are really good. Take a look for them in an (online) bookstore if you're interested:

- How to make friends and influence people
- First Impressions - what you don't know about how others see you
- 7 habits of highly effective people
- spirituality of imperfection (more about the spiritual side of men than about communication... but good book)

I say this because I've tried therapy and meds., but they just didn't work for me, and I feel they robbed many years of my life, when I was constantly given false hope. Self-help is what worked for me and I hope it can work for you too.

I absolutely sympathize. Some people seem to be born with social skills. I wasn't. I've had to work hard to develop what little I have, and I still don't know what to do nine tenths of the time.

A book that helped me, although I'm sure it's out of print and I don't think it was a best seller, was "Is There Life After High School?" (Interrupts self to investigate, comes back with this: I was wrong on both counts. Here it is.)

It was Nora Ephron, interviewed in the book, who gave me the most practical advice I ever received as a student: Stop always being the one with your hand up, ready to answer the question. The lower stayed her hand, said the author, the higher went her popularity. Too bad I was a senior before I read that. But I took the advice, and it worked. My senior year was a lot easier on me than previous years had been. Before that, my hand was always waving. I was like Arnold Horshak with the "Ooh, ohh, call on me, I know!" You see, I had the delusion that other people thought of me as stupid (because often, they told me exactly that) and I felt I had to "prove" I was smart. In reality, they knew I was smart, and they perceived my behavior as rubbing it in their faces. I wish someone had told me. But most people wouldn't have had to be told.

I got to throw in with Severijn. In no way did years of expensive therapy do me the least little bit of good in overcoming my social phobia/avoidance. (I forget the distinction between the two.) Well, referring back above, I think social anxiety would be the most apt description. Being in a Partial Hospitalization Program did help, because it was like a social laboratory, in which to practice interacting. I made painful mistakes, but my peers were forgiving and encouraging. (Like folks here at PC.) Forcing myself to do things I don't feel comfortable with seems to expand my capabilities. But, again, that yields the most when it is in a structured context - like a job.

I came back to edit this post after reading the post by LoverbirdsFlying. My peers in PHP did the job of letting me know how I was coming across: insufferably and arrogantly opinionated. One peer even specifically said, "I'll bet you did real good in school, but what gave you that success is exactly what is not working for you in life." I will forever be in her debt. We came to really enjoy each other. PHP helped me figure out stuff that most people are able to extract from their experience as teens in high school. I was in need of being told things that, as you say, "most people wouldn't have had to be told."

Here's a snippet from the book "Failing at Fairness" in which the conversation between Ralph Keyes and Nora Ephron is talked about. She's telling how much more popular she became, when she stopped raising her hand or even acting like she was smart.

I love Nora Ephron for saving my senior year, making it far less of a hell than my other school years had been. I still never had a date. I still didn't get asked to the prom. But at least I was no longer verbally tormented.