[Giabrina]

About two weeks ago, the police came to my house after I made a phone call trying to get information about an intensive outpatient program. The intake worker went thru the standard questions one of which she asked if i was suicidal. My response was "suicide is always an option"

A few questions later she asked if she could send someone to my house to check on me and I told her that I was fine. I was not feeling suicidal at that time. Long story short, the police came along with my husband. Since the police officer who got the call knew my husband, he called him and brought him along. When the walked in, I was busy cooking dinner and the kids were doing their homework. I told the officer I was fine and he left. My husband also left without acknowledging me...he simply went back to work. He would not even look at me when he came home from work and gave me the silent treatment for two days. When he finally came around to talking, he said that that incident was just another episode of my behavior that he doesn't understand and doesn't think is right.

I would appreciate any thoughts/opinions/suggestions on the following three topics:

1. Was I wrong to say 'suicide is always an option', even though I wasn't feeling suicidal at that time?

2. Did the police have a right to bring my husband to the house, which didn't help our marriage problems -- it only made it worse.

3. Heaven forbid if I was really suicidal at that time and all my husband did was go back to work and leave my alone. Did I deserve more support?

[roads]

Originally Posted by Giabrina

1. Was I wrong to say 'suicide is always an option', even though I wasn't feeling suicidal at that time?

2. Did the police have a right to bring my husband to the house, which didn't help our marriage problems -- it only made it worse.

3. Heaven forbid if I was really suicidal at that time and all my husband did was go back to work and leave my alone. Did I deserve more support?

1. You were being honest, but you ought to have been told at the end the call what your response meant would happen.

2. They didn't know what they were walking into, but to make the assumptions that brought your husband into it was not warranted.

3. Yes, you deserved more support.

The entire incident was handled poorly on their end and could have provoked a poor outcome. Im glad you're okay.

[Yoda]

My take -

1 If someone calling a crisis line said suicide is always an option that would worry me. The worker should have asked more questions about what does that mean to you.

2 I think it was a good idea that the police brought your husband because your husband knows your normal and would recognize a crisis or unusual behavior (or so we would hope)

3 You said you were fine. I presume your husband felt you didn't need help. He could certainly have been helpful but he can't read your mind. If you ask him for help does he comply?

Sounds like a very confusing situation all the way around.

So how are you feeling NOW?

i frequently reply to my doc's that way as well...& they always follow up with questions...always.

so i think if i called a crisis line & said that i would expect some sort of action...because it leaves to many options & questions open for interpretation

& as an ex emt..if someone presented to me with that answer i would do my best to make sure i could get them medical treatment...just because i wouldn't know what was "normal" for them...as someone walking into a scene you don't know that person...their mental state, their history, etc..so given that response over the phone..yeah as a crisis line worker i would have called the pd..

you always want to err on the side of safety rather than make a fatal mistake...you may hate me in the morning but at least the person will still be around to do so.

signed
someone who has dealt with jumpers (some successful some not) , overmedicated, & some others who suicided with much other nasty ways

& someone who teeters herself on the edge frequently

[Perna]

Hi, Giabrina.

I do not think right or wrongness applies to saying "suicide is always an option" but I do not feel that attitude is a healthy one.

Again, I don't know about "right"; I think it was great that someone came to check on you, your community cares, in a sense, whether you and your family are doing well or not and that the policeman knew your husband certainly made it more comfortable for him; presumably your husband would know you better than the policeman could and if your husband had been worried, then the policeman would have had a second person to check his own impressions of your state with. The policeman does not know about your marriage problems and if you had been suicidal, probably would have been better able to help you with your husband there; any problems would take second place to keeping you and the children safe.

What support did you feel you needed? You said you were fine and you were engaged in appropriate behavior cooking dinner for the children, etc. The policeman was convinced you were not suicidal and your husband has his own problems. Were I your husband (I'm female too) I might have stayed with you, chatted with you and gotten involved with helping make dinner or entertaining the kids, etc. but it does not sound like something your husband can/would/thought to do.

You say your husband did not look at/acknowledge or speak to you for a couple days; it takes two to make a relationship. Did/do you discuss your desires or needs with your husband or inform him of what you are working on? Did he know you were looking for an intensive outpatient program?

It is supportive of us to let our partners know what is going on so they are not "surprised" or mystified by our behavior. Did you discuss what the policeman told him or knew? How would you feel if you got a call that your husband might be suicidal and would you meet the police at his work? Then you get there and he's in the middle of a meeting with coworkers and just going about his work? I would feel a little silly and even embarrassed, perhaps, to be there, especially after the police left. Too, I would suspect there was a reason the police and I had called there, that he had said something about suicide that someone thought might be serious so I would probably project some of my embarrassment and discomfort onto him, and maybe blame him for causing my discomfort. Since he said nothing to me, I would not know what was going on with him, how I fit into his world; I would go back to mine and probably worry and stew in my anger.

[Giabrina]

Originally Posted by Yoda

My take -

1 If someone calling a crisis line said suicide is always an option that would worry me. The worker should have asked more questions about what does that mean to you.

2 I think it was a good idea that the police brought your husband because your husband knows your normal and would recognize a crisis or unusual behavior (or so we would hope)

3 You said you were fine. I presume your husband felt you didn't need help. He could certainly have been helpful but he can't read your mind. If you ask him for help does he comply?

Sounds like a very confusing situation all the way around.

So how are you feeling NOW?

HI, thanks for asking how I am feeling now. I am doing fine, just (as always) looking for resources to better my situation. Hopefully the New Year will bring positive changes.

[Giabrina]

Originally Posted by Yoda

My take -

1 If someone calling a crisis line said suicide is always an option that would worry me. The worker should have asked more questions about what does that mean to you.

2 I think it was a good idea that the police brought your husband because your husband knows your normal and would recognize a crisis or unusual behavior (or so we would hope)

3 You said you were fine. I presume your husband felt you didn't need help. He could certainly have been helpful but he can't read your mind. If you ask him for help does he comply?

Sounds like a very confusing situation all the way around.

So how are you feeling NOW?

Originally Posted by stumpy

i frequently reply to my doc's that way as well...& they always follow up with questions...always.

so i think if i called a crisis line & said that i would expect some sort of action...because it leaves to many options & questions open for interpretation

& as an ex emt..if someone presented to me with that answer i would do my best to make sure i could get them medical treatment...just because i wouldn't know what was "normal" for them...as someone walking into a scene you don't know that person...their mental state, their history, etc..so given that response over the phone..yeah as a crisis line worker i would have called the pd..

you always want to err on the side of safety rather than make a fatal mistake...you may hate me in the morning but at least the person will still be around to do so.

signed
someone who has dealt with jumpers (some successful some not) , overmedicated, & some others who suicided with much other nasty ways

& someone who teeters herself on the edge frequently

Hi, I do just want to clarify that I did not call a crisis line. I was calling a number my insurance company recommended for a place that does dual diagnosis counseling (in my case bipolar disorder & alcohol problems). I guess I can understand more clearly as to why the intake worker called the police, I probably should have explained more thoroughly my state of mind at the moment. Thanks for your reply

[Giabrina]

Originally Posted by Perna

Hi, Giabrina.

I do not think right or wrongness applies to saying "suicide is always an option" but I do not feel that attitude is a healthy one.

Again, I don't know about "right"; I think it was great that someone came to check on you, your community cares, in a sense, whether you and your family are doing well or not and that the policeman knew your husband certainly made it more comfortable for him; presumably your husband would know you better than the policeman could and if your husband had been worried, then the policeman would have had a second person to check his own impressions of your state with. The policeman does not know about your marriage problems and if you had been suicidal, probably would have been better able to help you with your husband there; any problems would take second place to keeping you and the children safe.

What support did you feel you needed? You said you were fine and you were engaged in appropriate behavior cooking dinner for the children, etc. The policeman was convinced you were not suicidal and your husband has his own problems. Were I your husband (I'm female too) I might have stayed with you, chatted with you and gotten involved with helping make dinner or entertaining the kids, etc. but it does not sound like something your husband can/would/thought to do.

You say your husband did not look at/acknowledge or speak to you for a couple days; it takes two to make a relationship. Did/do you discuss your desires or needs with your husband or inform him of what you are working on? Did he know you were looking for an intensive outpatient program?

It is supportive of us to let our partners know what is going on so they are not "surprised" or mystified by our behavior. Did you discuss what the policeman told him or knew? How would you feel if you got a call that your husband might be suicidal and would you meet the police at his work? Then you get there and he's in the middle of a meeting with coworkers and just going about his work? I would feel a little silly and even embarrassed, perhaps, to be there, especially after the police left. Too, I would suspect there was a reason the police and I had called there, that he had said something about suicide that someone thought might be serious so I would probably project some of my embarrassment and discomfort onto him, and maybe blame him for causing my discomfort. Since he said nothing to me, I would not know what was going on with him, how I fit into his world; I would go back to mine and probably worry and stew in my anger.

Hi and thanks for your response. I think I am going to have to read and re-read your post several times for you touch on several excellent points and I will need some time to form a coherent response. But quickly, you said it takes two to make a relationship. And I guess in our relationship when I do explain what I am going to do or ask for his advice on something, he dismisses it and tells me not to do it, that it is a waste of money, why talk to a doctor when you can talk to me, etc. So no, he did not know I was making a phone call to get information about intensive outpatient counseling. He would have belittled me with replies like "nothing is going to help you", "how are you going to pay for that when you have no money" "it hasn't helped in the past, why would it help now" etc., etc.

But I am glad you took the time to respond because it has helped me to see how he looked at the situation. My desires and needs as you mentioned have never been met, so I really do not feel like I can approach him on anything. I am not saying I am perfect, because I am not and I am not saying all of the problems in our marriage are his fault because they are not.

I have to go now, but like I said, I am going to re-read you post and answer in more detail. Thanks for responding.

[di meliora]

Giabrina, I think what you did was perfectly appropriate. Your husband is not helping. Your health is a priority. He cares more about the money than you.

[likewater]

I am very careful with that question. I am NEVER honest because i know the results of being honest. I quickly answer "no." But in my case i've never attempted and never will but i have to constantly fight urges and voices telling me to. I dont want to explain that to some insurance agent over the phone or my family dr so i can get my headache medicine. The important thing is youre safe, and it sounds like people came to your house , even if they were misguided, because they care.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Giabrina

About two weeks ago, the police came to my house after I made a phone call trying to get information about an intensive outpatient program. The intake worker went thru the standard questions one of which she asked if i was suicidal. My response was "suicide is always an option"

A few questions later she asked if she could send someone to my house to check on me and I told her that I was fine. I was not feeling suicidal at that time. Long story short, the police came along with my husband. Since the police officer who got the call knew my husband, he called him and brought him along. When the walked in, I was busy cooking dinner and the kids were doing their homework. I told the officer I was fine and he left. My husband also left without acknowledging me...he simply went back to work. He would not even look at me when he came home from work and gave me the silent treatment for two days. When he finally came around to talking, he said that that incident was just another episode of my behavior that he doesn't understand and doesn't think is right.

I would appreciate any thoughts/opinions/suggestions on the following three topics:

1. Was I wrong to say 'suicide is always an option', even though I wasn't feeling suicidal at that time?

2. Did the police have a right to bring my husband to the house, which didn't help our marriage problems -- it only made it worse.

3. Heaven forbid if I was really suicidal at that time and all my husband did was go back to work and leave my alone. Did I deserve more support?

1 I think you already know the answer to that.. if you hadnt they wouldnt have sent the police and the police wouldnt have picked up your husband. saying "suicide is always an option" people who are not suicidal answer "no I am not suicidal" "no I have no suicidal thoughts" Saying what you did is the same as saying yes, I am suicidal and yes I have suicidal thoughts.

2. yes they had a right to bring your husband home. the person you talked to on the phone didnt know whether you were suicidal or not because you did not tell her no. most people who are suicidal and dont want to be found always say they are ok anyway even if they admit to being suicidal. the police didnt have any idea they would not find you dead, od'ed, or had done other forms of suicide. bringing your husband with them saves time in locating him after the police find you unconscious or so unstable that you are unable to make decisions on your own. most if not all people who think suicide is the option to solving their problems are most times if not all so unstable they need involuntary commitment or arrest for being a danger to their self or others. your husband may also have been needed since you have children that would have been unattended if they hadnt brought your husband along your kids may have been placed in state care.

3 you deserve support for your problems, but your husband now because you stated that on the phone may be feeling like you are calling wolf, faking your problems for attention. when this happens most people dont give the attention so that the person calling wolf wont fake it again. you know you werent faking a suicide attempt just to get attention but your husband may not know that if you have a past behavior of using your problems for attention.

my suggestion breath and then talk with him about it and talk with your treatment providers so that you will understand what things are considered a suicide threat or a statement of danger to yourself or others in your location, so that next time if you do not want the attention of the police and this same reaction from your husband this wont happen.

[Xeneon]

1. I think you should have said something different but you can't change the way you feel. So be honest and blunt is good but I would have been more careful so things like that wouldn't have happened. I think the person on the other line should of talked to you more questions and when you said you weren't feeling suicidal right now she should of accepted the answer and told you that you could call back anytime.
3. I think your husband should have talked to you to make sure you where alright and kiss you goodbye and go to work. I think he was actting like a child to give you the silent treatment. The silent treatment just causes more problems in the long run. He needs to work on communication more with you.

I hope you all right and things get better with your husband.
2. I think the cops where wrong to think it was okay to bring your husband home. I think that just because they know you and your husband doesn't give them the right to go get your husband from work. I think it would of been okay if you did say you where thinking about killing yourself to go get your husband.
3.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by Giabrina

And I guess in our relationship when I do explain what I am going to do or ask for his advice on something, he dismisses it and tells me not to do it, that it is a waste of money, why talk to a doctor when you can talk to me, etc. So no, he did not know I was making a phone call to get information about intensive outpatient counseling. He would have belittled me with replies like "nothing is going to help you", "how are you going to pay for that when you have no money" "it hasn't helped in the past, why would it help now" etc., etc.

Your husband is allowed his opinion, especially when you ask for it. It sounds like he is rather ignorant about mental health care.

But asking for someone's advice does not mean you have to take it or find it helpful or correct or anything else; presumably you ask someone's advice because you hope what they have to say will be helpful in your considerations about what you should do. But what you do, who you ask, what information you use to make your decisions, etc. is up to you.

There is no reply necessary to my giving someone else information about myself. "I am going to call a place today and get some information about their intensive outpatient program." That's not a question or request for opinion, it is merely information so the other person is kept in your loop and if the call happens as it did, your husband is not surprised by the policeman's asking him to accompany him to your home to see if you are all right.

If your husband gratuitously offers his own ignorant, negative opinion you state, "I'm not interested in your ignorant, negative opinion of what I am going to do; I am informing you of my actions so you will not be surprised with any next steps or conversations we may have as a result of them."

However, I understand where such brutal honesty might not help the next steps or conversations but one could more gently cut in and just keep with the "I" program, "I am informing you of my actions so you will not be surprised. . ."

I highlighted the "he would have" because you are second guessing someone else. Even if he says the same sorts of things 1,000 times, what he says is about him and he gets the opportunity to express himself each time and perhaps change his mind or say something different; we can't know what someone will say in the future or "would-have-said"; they have to make it exist in the present before they can be responded to in the present by what you feel. Communication has to get tangled if one or both people are responding to would-have-said or with default-ignorant-negative comments.

Any chance you can get him to agree to marriage counseling for the two of you? That might lift some of the load from just your shoulders, help him understand you better and get the two of you communicating more directly so you can work together on your and the marriages problems?

1. Was I wrong to say 'suicide is always an option', even though I wasn't feeling suicidal at that time?

If that is how you feel that is called honesty and I think that is always the best policy. You were clear that you were not feeling suicidal at the time and needed no additional help.

I worked on a suicide crisis line and the only time you called the authorities was if somebody was threatening to do something, had already done something, or after an evaluation was deemed to be high risk and could not be talked down. It is obvious to me that this person is uncomfortable even talking about the subject (maybe because she lost somebody) and probably calls the authorities whenever the subject is brought up.

2. Did the police have a right to bring my husband to the house, which didn't help our marriage problems -- it only made it worse.

The police had no right to even inform your husband. They most likely have broken HIPAA laws and you could sue. Just because the police officer knows your husband does not give him the right to disclose personal health information about you before he knows any details. It would have been different if he got to the house, you needed to be taken in and somebody was needed for the kids.

3. Heaven forbid if I was really suicidal at that time and all my husband did was go back to work and leave my alone. Did I deserve more support?

You deserved at least to be asked why the authorities were called. You deserve to have your side heard. For your husband to just leave and go back to work pissed off is not your fault. Honestly it falls down to the ignorance of the officer who called him in the first place.

Love and hugs,
Tara

Originally Posted by amandalouise

1 I think you already know the answer to that.. if you hadnt they wouldnt have sent the police and the police wouldnt have picked up your husband. saying "suicide is always an option" people who are not suicidal answer "no I am not suicidal" "no I have no suicidal thoughts" Saying what you did is the same as saying yes, I am suicidal and yes I have suicidal thoughts.

2. yes they had a right to bring your husband home. the person you talked to on the phone didnt know whether you were suicidal or not because you did not tell her no. most people who are suicidal and dont want to be found always say they are ok anyway even if they admit to being suicidal. the police didnt have any idea they would not find you dead, od'ed, or had done other forms of suicide. bringing your husband with them saves time in locating him after the police find you unconscious or so unstable that you are unable to make decisions on your own. most if not all people who think suicide is the option to solving their problems are most times if not all so unstable they need involuntary commitment or arrest for being a danger to their self or others.

I completely and utterly disagree with most of what is being said above. Suicide is an option for many, and that does NOT mean that they ARE currently suicidal. For some, the thoughts never abate. You did state that you were not suicidal at that time when questioned further. You did not state that you had acted out in any suicidal manner, or were intending too.

And as far as the police bringing your husband to "save them time in locating him later" is totally wrong. They have no right to inform anybody else of your mental health without your consent. It is quite clear the officer acted out of his own accord because he knew your husband and not because he was instructed to by his superior officer, nor that he even asked his superior officer.

The person on the phone did know that you were not suicidal because you stated you were not.

I think they need to more carefully screen the people they hire for intake assessment. If they don't know how to correctly evaluate a potentially suicidal person they have no business being in that position, wasting the police's time and causing more stress and grief for you.

If you were considering this place as I treatment possibility I would advise against it.

Love and Hugs,
Tara

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by tara_922

I completely and utterly disagree with most of what is being said above. Suicide is an option for many, and that does NOT mean that they ARE currently suicidal. For some, the thoughts never abate. You did state that you were not suicidal at that time when questioned further. You did not state that you had acted out in any suicidal manner, or were intending too.

And as far as the police bringing your husband to "save them time in locating him later" is totally wrong. They have no right to inform anybody else of your mental health without your consent. It is quite clear the officer acted out of his own accord because he knew your husband and not because he was instructed to by his superior officer, nor that he even asked his superior officer.

The person on the phone did know that you were not suicidal because you stated you were not.

I think they need to more carefully screen the people they hire for intake assessment. If they don't know how to correctly evaluate a potentially suicidal person they have no business being in that position, wasting the police's time and causing more stress and grief for you.

If you were considering this place as I treatment possibility I would advise against it.

Love and Hugs,
Tara

thanks for your opinion Tara. what I stated is how we do things here in NY at the crisis center and hospital and other crisis type programs where I live and work. you, your state and the programs where you are may do things differently and thats ok.

each usa state, mental health professionals and mental health programs in each individual state, town, city have their own rules regulations and laws concerning what is considered a suicide threat and how to handle it.

this is how we do things here in NY in the city I am in. Im glad you have a different way of handling it but I do not. if I want to keep my job, and such with NY State then I must do it the way I am told to do it.

if the original poster had called the crisis center where I work I would have had no choice but to alert the police to a possible suicide threat /well check visit. being that she was home alone with her children with no other responsible adult able to care for the children I would have also found out how to reach her husband and have the husband be there in case she had to be emergency transported. the rules where I am say if there is no contact info and childrens other parent cannot be located then child protective services must be called. I would rather make the call to the husband instead of having childrens services step in and take the children in care for their protectyion until an investigation can be done on the mothers stability.

unfortunately here in NY saying suicide is an option is the same as saying yes Im thinking about suicide. we have rules we have to follow here regarding such statements.

Im glad California (where your profile says you are) does things differently. and I understand you dont agree with what I wrote. thats ok. you dont live in NY and work where I do so you dont have to follow the standards and laws that I do.

thanks again for your opinion though.

Originally Posted by amandalouise

1 I think you already know the answer to that.. if you hadnt they wouldnt have sent the police and the police wouldnt have picked up your husband. saying "suicide is always an option" people who are not suicidal answer "no I am not suicidal" "no I have no suicidal thoughts" Saying what you did is the same as saying yes, I am suicidal and yes I have suicidal thoughts.

2. yes they had a right to bring your husband home. the person you talked to on the phone didnt know whether you were suicidal or not because you did not tell her no. most people who are suicidal and dont want to be found always say they are ok anyway even if they admit to being suicidal. the police didnt have any idea they would not find you dead, od'ed, or had done other forms of suicide. bringing your husband with them saves time in locating him after the police find you unconscious or so unstable that you are unable to make decisions on your own. most if not all people who think suicide is the option to solving their problems are most times if not all so unstable they need involuntary commitment or arrest for being a danger to their self or others. your husband may also have been needed since you have children that would have been unattended if they hadnt brought your husband along your kids may have been placed in state care.

3 you deserve support for your problems, but your husband now because you stated that on the phone may be feeling like you are calling wolf, faking your problems for attention. when this happens most people dont give the attention so that the person calling wolf wont fake it again. you know you werent faking a suicide attempt just to get attention but your husband may not know that if you have a past behavior of using your problems for attention.

my suggestion breath and then talk with him about it and talk with your treatment providers so that you will understand what things are considered a suicide threat or a statement of danger to yourself or others in your location, so that next time if you do not want the attention of the police and this same reaction from your husband this wont happen.

Originally Posted by amandalouise

thanks for your opinion Tara. what I stated is how we do things here in NY at the crisis center and hospital and other crisis type programs where I live and work. you, your state and the programs where you are may do things differently and thats ok.

each usa state, mental health professionals and mental health programs in each individual state, town, city have their own rules regulations and laws concerning what is considered a suicide threat and how to handle it.

this is how we do things here in NY in the city I am in. Im glad you have a different way of handling it but I do not. if I want to keep my job, and such with NY State then I must do it the way I am told to do it.

if the original poster had called the crisis center where I work I would have had no choice but to alert the police to a possible suicide threat /well check visit. being that she was home alone with her children with no other responsible adult able to care for the children I would have also found out how to reach her husband and have the husband be there in case she had to be emergency transported. the rules where I am say if there is no contact info and childrens other parent cannot be located then child protective services must be called. I would rather make the call to the husband instead of having childrens services step in and take the children in care for their protectyion until an investigation can be done on the mothers stability.

unfortunately here in NY saying suicide is an option is the same as saying yes Im thinking about suicide. we have rules we have to follow here regarding such statements.

Im glad California (where your profile says you are) does things differently. and I understand you dont agree with what I wrote. thats ok. you dont live in NY and work where I do so you dont have to follow the standards and laws that I do.

thanks again for your opinion though.

The point is that she did not call a crisis center, she called a treatment provider asking for help. She DID say that she was NOT suicidal when asked. I'm sure there is no rule that constitutes saying it is an option is the same thing as it being an action. That would be like saying getting drunk is always an option for me being equivalent to being drunk.

As a therapist or mental health provider, whatever it is you do, you should be informed of HIPAA laws and know that nobody in a position of authority is allowed to disclose your personal health information without your written consent. New York is not special in that area.

I would suggest you re-read her post and specifically the part where she was asked and told the lady on the phone that she was not suicidal and needed no additional help. You seem to be coming from the point of this person actually making a suicidal threat or gesture, which she did not.

I would suggest the laws in New York to change to reflect the fact that suicide is an option for many and if that is said along with the statement that one is not suicidal and has no intent to act that there be no need to waste precious tax dollars and authorities time to check on the individual. Taking such extreme action in very low-risk cases is wasteful and ignorant regardless of where you are from.

Why is there such paranoia about suicide? OMG s/he is going to do it, quick lock them up! PLEASE! People are responsible for their own decisions suicide included. If a person works in the mental health profession and can't handle the unnecessary guilt they may feel over somebody else's actions they need to be in a different line of work. Period. Suicide happens and unless the person is making threats or gestures, or has acted there should be no government intervention. If the police were called every time I was feeling suicidal they'd have to hire more officers. Just because I am feeling suicidal does not mean I will act on it. This person wasn't even feeling suicidal for crying out loud! She just keeps that door open in case perhaps one day she decides she can't cope with life anymore. That is not a crime and should not be treated as such!

What has the United States come to where we value taking somebody's rights away from them for an opinion they have regarding suicide.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by tara_922

The point is that she did not call a crisis center, she called a treatment provider asking for help. She DID say that she was NOT suicidal when asked. I'm sure there is no rule that constitutes saying it is an option is the same thing as it being an action. That would be like saying getting drunk is always an option for me being equivalent to being drunk.

As a therapist or mental health provider, whatever it is you do, you should be informed of HIPAA laws and know that nobody in a position of authority is allowed to disclose your personal health information without your written consent. New York is not special in that area.

I would suggest you re-read her post and specifically the part where she was asked and told the lady on the phone that she was not suicidal and needed no additional help. You seem to be coming from the point of this person actually making a suicidal threat or gesture, which she did not.

I would suggest the laws in New York to change to reflect the fact that suicide is an option for many and if that is said along with the statement that one is not suicidal and has no intent to act that there be no need to waste precious tax dollars and authorities time to check on the individual. Taking such extreme action in very low-risk cases is wasteful and ignorant regardless of where you are from.

Why is there such paranoia about suicide? OMG s/he is going to do it, quick lock them up! PLEASE! People are responsible for their own decisions suicide included. If a person works in the mental health profession and can't handle the unnecessary guilt they may feel over somebody else's actions they need to be in a different line of work. Period. Suicide happens and unless the person is making threats or gestures, or has acted there should be no government intervention. If the police were called every time I was feeling suicidal they'd have to hire more officers. Just because I am feeling suicidal does not mean I will act on it. This person wasn't even feeling suicidal for crying out loud! She just keeps that door open in case perhaps one day she decides she can't cope with life anymore. That is not a crime and should not be treated as such!

What has the United States come to where we value taking somebody's rights away from them for an opinion they have regarding suicide.

here in NY there are set laws and rules that treatment providers (doctors, therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists...), agencies that provide health services (physical and mental) and the law enforcement must use in dealing with suicide or any other type of threat where there is a potential for someone doing harm to their self or others.

Because of the 9/11 incident, NY has adopted a zero tolerance view on violence & suicide.

yes I know about HIPPA and HIPAA privacy laws. treatment providers can not call up someones relative just for the heck of it and say I see your daughter for this that and the other thing. but *any* treatment provider it doesnt have to be one that you are now seeing. treatment providers in NY are called mandated reporters. them must report when they suspect abuse, or someone making a threat of harm to their self or others. HIPPA and HIPAA does allow treatment providers to disclose to the police any and all information the police need when there is a threat of suicide and homicide. Here in NY treatment providers have to give their clients a paper that says right on it that in the event of threat of harm to one self and others the agency has the right to contact the police and inform them of the threat. Im not sure but I think since 9/11 it may now be USA law that because of HIPPA and HIPAA treatment providers even emergency rooms must hand out a paper spelling out the law and under what situations treatment providers must release information to the police or other law enforcement to protect the one making the threat and others that could possibly be hurt.

the USA police are not bound by HIPPA and HIPAA Privacy law. only treatment providers are bound by that law. the police are bound by their own state town and city judicial laws to enforce safety for everyone. here in NY the judicial laws do allow the police to contact family members and tell them what is going on when there is a potential threat of harm to oneself or others. the police officer that picked up her husband was not bound by HIPPA nor HIPAA because he was not her treatment provider and as a police officer he is exempt from those laws. he was bound only to the judicial laws of the state he works in as a police officer.

now we can sit here and keep batting this ball back and forth just because my state does things differently than yours and you have a different opinion of this situation than I do but its not going to do the original poster any good.

for the original poster - there are many locations and many different people on psych central so there is going to be people who do not agree because they are going by their own rules in their locations and their own personal views.

that said my post was based on what and how NY and the agencies around here where I live and work do things. if you would like to have these questions you asked answered based on your own location you will need to contact your own treatment providers and the police station in your area. they can tell you what the laws and rules say for handling such things in her town and location.

[nicoleb2]

Originally Posted by tara_922

Suicide happens and unless the person is making threats or gestures, or has acted there should be no government intervention. If the police were called every time I was feeling suicidal they'd have to hire more officers. Just because I am feeling suicidal does not mean I will act on it. This person wasn't even feeling suicidal for crying out loud! She just keeps that door open in case perhaps one day she decides she can't cope with life anymore. That is not a crime and should not be treated as such!

What has the United States come to where we value taking somebody's rights away from them for an opinion they have regarding suicide.

My t and I discuss suicidal ideation pretty much every week. She knows I think about it. She knows I know exactly how I would do it, were I to get to that point. She also knows I am not at that point because she asks, and I tell her.

If I had the police called every time I thought about suicide, they would be parked on my doorstep a lot of the time.

Suicidal Ideation does NOT equal suicidal.

Suicidal ideation/suicidal thoughts - it is a thought. The same as some people have thoughts equally as negative as suicide.

[likewater]

Yeah but that's the point some young customer service rep on the phone can't make judgement calls like a therapist. Probably for safety she is given guidelines to call police if you answer anything besides "no"

[ECHOES]

Based on what you said in your post, I think the intake worker over-reacted and the police violated your privacy by bringing your sharing this with your husband.

Were you 'wrong' to say suicide is always an option? No more wrong that saying the sky is blue. It is blue.

If your husband "communicates" by giving you the silent treatment for 2 days, he has his own serious issues.

[elliemay]

The same exact thing happened to my mother. She was talking to a triage nurse at an outpatient center as well. The sheriff and my father showed up at the house.

It wasn't a crisis line, she was even calling on the advice of her psychiatrist, and well, things didn't go exactly as they should have in her situation, but, then again, lord only knows what my mother actually said to the nurse.

However, as the nurse was a health care provider, she did have, in her mind, an obligation to intervene. Was she too quick to act? Perhaps, but I think you have to consider the alternative to her doing nothing.

As it turns out, it wasn't the facility that contacted my father, it was the sheriff department themselves. I don't know whether HIPPA applies to them. Their reasoning was that they feared a highly volatile, potentially fatal situation - one they were ill equipped to handle - which is true, most first responders are woefully undertrained in mental health situations and can, in reality, make a situation much worse. Their goal was to provide the best chance at diffusing the situation. It was a good call.

In this case, although it was clearly a wild overreaction, sometimes it is best to act with an abundance of caution.

FWIW, my dad was miffed and embarrassed too, but only for a little while.

[Sabrina]

I am sorry your husband acted so coldly. Please take good care of yourself.

[sandworm]

I find your situation challenging. I have been in a tangle with someone and felt I knew, I
mean knew I was right, and one day after two months had an idea pop in my mind
and be able to see it from some other point of view, realizing that I was being
weird, a jerk or a tool. Then again, I have felt certain I was in the wrong about
something and through years of growth came to view things from another side,
realizing how abused and cheated I had been and my actions had really been the
only reasonable thing to do.
I am not saying you are right or wrong; I am saying, situations can be malluble where
you can see it from more than one or two or even only three points of view. and
your certainty about right and wrong today, may in future days be totally
ridiculous.
You are doing the right thing in seeking opinions, it gives you a chance to
'metaphorically and mentally' walk around what really happened and what you
perceived happened. (also what others perceived happened)

"S"

[LylaJean]

I have always been honest about my suicidal thoughts when I have them because I'm honestly scared that if I weren't honest, I wouldn't get the help I needed. I have told my doctor that I think suicidal thoughts, but he asked enough questions to know that I wasn't having suicidal thoughts at the moment, and also that I'm open with my husband and alert him to those thoughts when they come. She should have asked more questions. I would never advocate lying about it, and if they ask they should expect an honest answer, but she should have clarified. Also, your husband should not have left you, regardless of how fine you seemed, until he could speak to you privately and really get a read on your mental state. What's the point of having a spouse if they won't take care of you when you need them?