[wi_fighter]

As a contributor to a fund last year, I'm feeling offended that the non-donators are coming off as angry towards us, saying we think we're better than others. Some of them I thought were my friends.

I was able to donate at the time, and I did. How does that make me "better" than someone?

And as DocJohn has come in and pointed out, membership to this forum is a work in progress. There are going to be more ways to be able to gain access to it.

[Zorah]

wi_fighter, it is not the members involved we are angry with, it is DocJohn we are angry with.

[Zorah]

it is Doc who thinks you are better than the rest of us,

those of you who have been able to contribute financially.

this is the nature of our problem. why should financial contributiuons count more than hours spent in chat helping people, or the PMs we send to support other members.

Is he planning to judge the quality of our posts in his "further criteria", or only the number ???

Nobody is angry at the contributors.

What I don't understand is "the devision it's going to bring" because there is going to be one. People are going to be devided. When a group of people is devided communication lost its way and people get defences for a reason or another. Miscommunication install itself and conflicts, hurt, comes in.

You already feel that people are angry at contributors and the forum is not even up yet.

I am not angry but the protector in me is coming out and I'm trying to keep a good familly together.

[lenjan]

Sorry, but I'm going to be a dissident here and say I really don't see the problem. We're already divided. There are some forums I never go into because I don't have the particular problem in question and I don't understand it to begin with, and thus have nothing to offer anyone there. This is just another place for people with something in common to gather. Why is everyone up in arms?

Doc John is a hardworking guy who does his best to give us this place. I vote for getting off his back till all the facts are in, instead of rushing to judgment.

Candy

[wi_fighter]

There's a forum that only admin and moderators have access to. Should I be offended that I can't go read what they have to say in there?

Would anyone have donated even 50 cents to a fund if they knew there would be access to a private forum in the future because of it?

Are people offended that they didn't donate before so they don't have access instantly, or are they offended because if they donate now they'll look like they're only doing it to get access, or what?

I'm not understanding this.

When DocJohn had the contest for our life stories, I didn't enter it because I knew I wouldn't win because there are much better writers here than I. He said if you would be disappointed if you didn't place in the contest, don't enter. I'd like to think I wouldn't have been disappointed, but I know I would have.

I'm trying to put this in the same context.

I guess if it's so important to gain access to the forum, kick in 25 cents to the fund. Do you pass by the Salvation Army bell ringers because you can't toss in a $20 bill so you don't even toss in your spare pennies? I mean, it all adds up.

[wi_fighter]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
You already feel that people are angry at contributors and the forum is not even up yet.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Actually, the forum is up. It's only visible to members, just like the admin/moderator's forum is only visible to them.

Oh really! Thank you for telling me.

Then this thread is for nothing. People are risking getting ban here and the forum is already up. Wow!

[Zorah]

Post deleted by kimmydawn

[ster]

i feel like this is something like my car, that I have people riding in . I want to change something inside the car. some of the people think it is ok and some do not like the idea. So i fix the car like I want it and make some of the people mad. seems strange they would be adverse to me fixing things the wait I would like it to be.

[kimmydawn]

Listen, folks. Let's keep is nice and talk about it while showing our disagreements and upset repectfully.

There is more to come about this forum, and possibly others. Can we not have the patience needed to see what's going on?

Docjohn has created a place for us, works hard for us and our safety and CARES.

Give the benefit of the doubt, ya know? There's more to come even regarding this specific forum.

Let's be patient and know that more is to come. Know that there are many here that CARE, especially the man who created, and maintains this great place.

I really don't have anything more to say at this point. Just keep it friendly. I don't want to lock this discussion, but I will if it can't stay respectful.

KD

I totally agree Kimmy. Thanks for your post. John has given SO much of his time and heart to this place.

Change is hard to accept sometimes. Let's give this some time to settle out. All other aspects of this great web site will still be here. Let's celebrate the fact that PC exists, thanks to DocJohn!

Emmy

[Twisted_Soul]

It is just a forum for those to make suggestion of how to better serve the site.
It isn't a totally different site to join or whatever.

I it not that big of a deal. I can understand how people will feel alienated. But, it isn't a financial issue thing .

[bipolar_bear]

I don't often become involved in disputes on the forums for various reasons. However, this one has hit home and I would like to express my initial feelings. I will add that I will patiently wait for further information.

If the site is in jeopardy financially then wouldn't it be more prudent to post to that effect and let people support it to the best of their abilities? I was under the impression that the site was subsidized by outside advertisers. Maybe this is incorrect. If so please notify me of my misconception.

I think there are many ways in which the site is supported. It was created as a support forum and with that criteria I would assume that those that provide support actively are those that are utilizing the site for its intent. Isn't that more important than some monetary donation? It seems to me that giving oneself is much more important than that which money can provide. Posting a poem or article is a form of support that is offered only periodically and not the constant support that many people need on this site. That to me is the core that keeps this site alive.

Many people here have suffered from not "fitting in" in other aspects of life and I think that creating this forum is only exacerbating that feeling. It saddens me that once again people are feeling rejected and excluded. I am sure this was not the intent but I think it is evident by the responses that it has elicited this feeling.

It was my understanding that the site was meant to be for everyone and only monitored to insure that the guidelines were followed for everyones safety. Maybe this is another misconception on my part and welcome being corrected.

I suppose most importantly this saddens me. Many people are very fragile on the site and have been made to feel inferior. I know that no one here would intentionally do that to anyone but unfortunately that is what has occurred.

It is unfortunate timing that when this forum is being intitiated follows so closely to another incident which upset the site considerably. Just an observation.

I think I have responded appropriately and not crossed the line as this place has become part of my daily routine and a part of my mental well being. I have always appreciated that people have been given the opportunity to voice their opinion on this site without repercussions as long as it is within the guidelines we all agreed to.

I will certainly accept whatever decision is made concerning this matter as I know I did not create nor do I monitor its administration. Ultimately that is who will make the final decisions and I respect that. I do not want to minimize the time and effort that many people put into this site to keep it running. I, for one, appreciate that greatly made evident to my usage. I am sure the decision will be made for the best interest of the site as a whole.

Respectfully,

bipolar_bear

[kimmydawn]

That was a wonderful post in stating your thoughts in a way that doesn't lash out or hurt, bipolarbear. Thank you.

I will respond to your post with this as well.

Many people only seem to only see what's before us right now and aren't hearing, "this is a work in progress and evolving." Please keep this in mind. Often times, new projects are implemented in phases...at work, school, home, etc.

Think of PC, what it's meant, and how hard it's worked for and know within yourselves that more is yet to come.

Enjoy PC and see what's yet to come.

KD

[Lexicon78]

Maybe the word he should've used was investors and writers? I dunno. Yeah, I feel kinda left out and all, too. Maybe we're misinterpreting the way it's written.

I feel slapped in the face about not being a "supporter" but I guess that's part of life.

[LMo]

Let me ask you guys something -- if he reworded the announcement of the new forum to something that more clearly reflected that he meant 'newsletter authors and financial contributors' instead of 'supporters', would that help?

Changing the wording would ONLY work if you're willing to let go of negative assumptions that there was an intent to be devisive in an elitist way. I can't speak for him, but when I re-read the announcement and I mentally substitute the word "supporter" for "newsletter authors and financial contributors", then I, for one, wouldn't feel excluded.

[gardenergirl]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
LMo said:
Let me ask you guys something -- if he reworded the announcement of the new forum to something that more clearly reflected that he meant 'newsletter authors and financial contributors' instead of 'supporters', would that help?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

That sure sounds like it would better define the forum than "supporters" since there are all kinds of support. And of course this is hindsight, but I think if Doc John had offered even a tiny bit of explanation about the purpose of the forum at the time he announced it, well, perhaps there wouldn't be as intense of a reaction to it. Who knows?

Of course, I'd still not "get in", although I did offer to write something for the newsletter, even a regular column. But as I never received a single reply to my offer, I have not submitted anything. Lots of ways to interpret that, but they all add up to no contributions from me. Which is fine.

gg

[Rapunzel]

Another way to look at it is that nobody is having anything taken away from them. PC is still the same place it always has been, and everyone has as much access to forums as they always did. Nobody loses anything. The only thing different is that a gift was given to members who meet certain criteria. Tomorrow when the criteria are expanded, you might be included. Anyone who is motivated could also eventually join the new forum. Nobody is asking anyone to pay for membership here or do anything more than register and follow the guidelines in order to belong to the site. It's just an extra, and it's still in development. When it evolves a bit more, and people get used to the idea, I think it will work out just fine.

That said, I can understand some of you having hurt feelings about not being included, especially when you do so much to support people on this site. It might seem that not being invited to a "Supporters Forum" invalides the support and work and contrubutions that you are doing here. Believe me, I know that it isn't meant that way, and you are all appreciated. Unfortunately, it would be really complicated to judge supportiveness on quality of posting, but let's wait and see what happens, okay?

(((((((((hugs to all)))))))))))

Rap

[Fuzzybear]

I have been unable to contribute to the funds because h and i are currently out of work. I thought and hoped that my sincere good wishes meant as much. Also as a former mod.... I stepped down temporarily as I needed a break, I would hope I might have been invited.........I have spent many hours supporting others, like many of the longer term members here. I mean no disrespect to Doc John or any of the current mods "but" my initial feelings included feelings of hurt and betrayal.

With respect,
Fuzzy

[kimmydawn]

Again, I will state that the criteria for the forum is still being thought out and expanded...period.

So many are focusing on the "money" aspect of this.

I would hope that people will know, while they're using the forums, that more is to come...

KD

Speaking only for myself and the feelings this thread brought up for me, I can honestly say it has nothing to do with contributions or money. I am a contributor, yet I was/am offended.

It has more to do with exclusion, secrecy, and entitlement issues from my past, as well as equality and matters of respect in the here and now.

Victims of abuse, physical, sexual, verbal, domestic, whatever, frequently experience feelings of shame, guilt, isolation, powerlessness, embarrassment, and inadequacy. And that is what it stirred up in me.

I know this is my own stuff. I own it fair and square. If I didn't have issues like this, I wouldn't be seeking support from a mental health forum in the first place.

[kimmydawn]

To all feeling upset:

I don't know what else to say. THERE IS MORE TO IT.

Please afford the same benefits (even those of doubt) offered you and wait for the rest of the story.

Thanks,

KD

[bebop]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
wi_fighter said:
As a contributor to a fund last year, I'm feeling offended that the non-donators are coming off as angry towards us, saying we think we're better than others. Some of them I thought were my friends.

I was able to donate at the time, and I did. How does that make me "better" than someone?

And as DocJohn has come in and pointed out, membership to this forum is a work in progress. There are going to be more ways to be able to gain access to it.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I don't think the people that are able to give money is better than anyone else. I would never say that or even feel that way. I do however think it is discriminate to have a closed forum here like that. other forums here are not closed. anyone can read and post in any forum they wish here. fayoredy is right. alot of us have spent alot of time helping others thru a crisis or just bad times and that to us now seems not so important.
I hope I still have alot of friends here including you wi. I know this place has been thru alot in the last couple of weeks and I hate any kind of conflict. I think we all still love and care deeply for those we call friends.

[bebop]

Petunia