Dateline Predator Series

Okay, does anybody think that this has gone way to far? Don't get me wrong perverts deserve to pay for what they've done but I disagree with the way these undercover teenagers looking for sex lure these men into the middle of nowhere to be completely embarrassed on T.V, destroy their lives, and then take their freedom. It's a twisted joke what they are doing to these people.

There should be some sort of punishment I agree, but what do you expect of these men when there's a 14 year old girl talking nasty sex talk and begging these men to come over to her house, bring protection and booze, so they can have sex?

First of all I highly doubt a thirteen and fourteen year old boy/girl are going to be in chat hunting down 30/40 year old to try to con to have sex with them. Also if they were to begin a convo with an older man and they lure this man with promises of sexual events and all sorts of perversions then that child has problems, obvisiouly desperate for whatever it is their parents aren't giving them.

I know that these men should know better then to even discuss anything with a younger kid and they should be disciplined, but destroying the rest of their lives, convicting them, and making them lists as child predators is entirely to much. The truth is the "supposed child" they were talking to was actually an adult!

What do you all think? Please say whatever it is you feel about this series.

Their intent was to meet with a minor and the intent was engage in illegal, harmful conduct with said minor. It's that clear-cut for me.

Whether it was a minor or not is beside the point, excepting the fact that I'm tickled pink it wasn't. I'm so appreciative of these investigations, and that it WASN'T a child they were meeting with. Also, I'm grateful for the publicity by the show...if it will cause ONE child molester to stop and think, then back out of meeting with a child...YAYAYAY.

kd

I think Dateline works with the organization called Perverted Justice. Did you see Del Harvey's profile? She is 23 years old and pretends to be an underaged teen to entrap these perverts, who would of met with a real victim if the had the chance.

COPA Child Online Protection Act of 1998.
What these law enforcement adults are doing is proper and legal.
What the predators are doing is illegal. (in this case, solicitation online)

Children do not know better, they can't think for themselves, their brains can't fathom what these -sick- adults have in mind. It's up to we adults to protect our children. Often children reach out to other adults in an effort to find the parenting they really crave...unfortunately the (generally) men are not planning to parent.

Also, many children who have been abused (neglect, sexual, physical, emotional) have learned how to please an adult, in an effort to prevent further abuse. Such children (usually girls) feel more mature because of this, inspite of their juvenile physical age.

Men and women who prey on children are not thinking straight, nor are they using self-discipline to prevent harm to children.

It's also common for those young ppl who have been abused, to side with someone who reaches out to them even if in an illegal manner, imo.

Men (and women) who engage in this type of activity are not innocent. They are sick. They will not seek help on their own, and will often give themselves all sorts of excuses for why they are not bad, but helpful to these children. The lies they tell prove they know better, they know what they are doing is bad. There is no other treatment at this point, imo. Unless they are caught, they will continue. Unless those watching the program, fearing being caught, seek help and work hard at changing their behavior, they also will continue because they doubt they will be caught.

There are plenty of men and women of mature age out there who would engage in legal activity with each other. Why should any allowance be given to someone who preys on the innocent children?

This is one area where tolerance doesn't apply, btw. (for those I've been chatting with about beliefs and tolerance..) A more liberal society, such as occur in 3rd world areas, might not find any issue with this activity. Indeed, there might not be the psychological impact there as there is here. (Would like links if someone has info on that.)

But in our western, modern society, this is just plain wrong, and ppl who do it need to be caught and punished. Becoming a societal outcast is only a mild punishment, imo.

Im for it. they want to meet with a teen for sex and here in the USA that is considered illegal. IF preditors are so stupid as to meet with teens for sex then they deserve and need to get caught no matter how it is done.

I think of it this way - in real life I was not the first person my abusers got. Theres no telling how many those abusers got. One abuser I know went through the at the least 2 generations of victims. every female in those generations had an encounter with that abuser.

Now that the laws and so on are tougher preditors have slowed down somewhat with their old ways of getting their victims. Kids are now taught as young as 3 and 4 years old about good touch and bad touch. Because the real world upped the ante with tougher laws and education perpetrators had to up how they find their victims. With on line they have access to unlimited victims and top that off when they go into court they claim it wasn't their fault the raped that child. The children should know better then to meet with a stranger they meet on line. So not the law is taking that out of their hands by having child and teen looking cops doing right back to perpetrators what they thought was a sure thing - befriend a teen on line misrepresenting themselves as teens to gain the trust and then meet and rape them. Hey if perpetrators are going to go to that length to commit crimes then the law has to match that in order to catch them.

Bottom line the undercover teens are not th e ones setting up the meetings. The perps do. the under cover teen and cops just follow thier lead and catch them in the act. No one is forcing the perps to make a plan to meet the undercover teen and the cops are not forcing the perps to show up at the meeting with the teens.

Just like no one forced my real world abusers to abuse me.

Bottom line having sex with a minor is illegal and considered abuse in the USA.

Theres a saying here -

If you don't want to do the time don't do the crime.

I think the show is a wake-up call for all those "dirty old men" who want to have sex with 13 year olds..........Although the guys on the tv show looked shocked and so innocent they should go to jail for even showing up on the l3 year old door step... (these kind of folks that stalk children usually do look innocent and harmless -- more or less wolves in sheep clothing) ...They are adults..... And if by chance this program was not a "set up" and the kid was really 13, do u not think the 30 year old man would not had sex with them... Makes me sick to my stomach to think of a 30/40 year old man with a 13 year old child............ I say get them alllllllll however, you can... Even if a 13 year old talks "sexual" it does not mean they know what they are doing, whereas a 30 year old man knows exactly what he is doing..... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr gives me the creeps for sure. And yes, it is a crime.. a very sick crime at that.......

OOOFF! I was gonna add my .02 worth, but I don't need to, I see!

Desirae, these men lost ANY right they have to ANTHING when they sexually abused their first child!

More power to these undercover cops!! GOD BLESS THEM!!

Now it's up to us, the public to make sure that laws get passed to KEEP these sick-os in prison for the rest of their lives!!

Delaware just used Florida's heavy penalty ideas to make their own! Yay!

First, did you bring this up because there was another Dateline "To Catch a Predator" show I missed? I'm still hoping they'll repeat the one I missed. They recently showed a couple, but both were ones I'd seen (I still watched them, though). Or did you bring it up, just in general? I hope the latter, because I like watching these shows, and would hate to think I missed another one.

As for the shows themselves, I know they edit parts, but from what I've seen, they mostly wait for the guy to bring up sex first. I think it's intentionally done that way so the men can't claim entrapment. And the Perverted-Justice.com people don't really talk "nasty sex talk" with the men. The men bring it up and ask the "girls" if they can do this or that, or tell them what they'll do. Nevertheless, if P-J did engage these men in nasty sex talk and the guys went along with it, I'd still blame the guys. They're adults. They're responsible for their actions. Teens are still learning to be adults, so it's up to the adult to be in charge.

Yes, there are teens who will be sexual online without prompting from other people. Part of this may be exploring, but when teens do this, it's often because they're not getting something--attention, love, security--at home.

P-J doesn't just pretend to be girls; they also pretend to be teen boys, because some pedophiles seek boys. Another thing you have to remember is, most of these men seem to lie about their age; certainly, many do. So, the kids may not be seeking a 30-40-year-old, but online, they can't tell how old someone really is.

I remember a news show doing a "sting" like this a few years ago. When some of the people in the neighborhood where they did the sting found out, they were upset, and understandably so: The show lured dangerous men to their neighborhood. I get that. But the reality is, men like you see on Dateline are probably in your neighborhood already.

The men that Dateline catches are the stupid ones, the ones who know Dateline does this, but they show up, anyway. The ones who don't use their heads about meeting someone online (you never know if a person, even a teen, is who s/he says s/he is). The ones who think a 14-year-old won't wonder why they look older than they said they were when they show up. It's the smarter ones that we really need to worry about. They know not to visit someone online in the spur of the moment. They know to plan. They know to be careful.

Frankly, I was thinking Dateline should make its predator-catching show a weekly thing.

I am so glad it is such a open subject now. My 13 yo watches it w/ me so we can talk about it and she can see what can really happen. When I was younger it wasn't talked about so when I was raped at 13 I didn't tell anyone because I was ashamed and I thought it was my fault because I didn't stop him. Now my daughter has more understanding of putting yourself into certain situations and knowing to tell me if something ever happens. I think it makes pple more aware of what is going on.

Ya know use to they would cut of your hand if you got caught stealing! Maybe they should consider something along those lines!

question: (let me play devils advocate here for a moment)

If pedophelia is considered a mental illness, is it fair to use these situations to aggravate the illness?

I REALIZE that its a bad thing they are doing and I am not even saying I dont agree. Just pondering another thought.

Sort of like would it be fair to tempt an alchoholic so that they drink. Or, would it be fair to tease a skitzophrenic who has issues with the government into doing something drastic.

I do understand what you are saying but they don't offer rehabilitation and if they did would it work? Pple who get help because they want it and pple who get help because they are busted have totally diff views on "getting help".

Example, ex bro-n-law finally got his felony dui. He went to a rehab jail to get him better. (o and he had time taken off for going to that kind of jail). Two years after he got out which was this past new years he was drinking and driving. He hit a lady head on and killed both of them.
Second sanerio, close person that I know had a bad drinking problem but no probs w/ law. Was about to loose family because she was drinking every day. She "decided" to stop and that was 5 yrs. ago.
Do you understand what I am tryin to explain? Of course this is just my opinion!

Will be back son just woke up w/ bad dream!

Rainbowzz, that's an excellent point! Staying on topic, while I have no problem putting away anyone who is harmful to others, I wonder about those here who have expressed hate towards pedophiles, because pedophiles are mentally ill, and can't help themselves. I have mixed feelings about pedophiles on that issue, but I can't say I have any problem with them being harmed, when they've harmed others. I admit that. I do think, if a pedophile were to seek help before harming a child, s/he deserves help and points for doing that. I'm not saying such a person can be helped, but if s/he's trying to get help, or have him/herself put away, that means s/he realizes what s/he wants to do is wrong.

Off-topic, you also brought up something that I wonder about--if someone triggers you to suffer with your mental illness (like, if someone intentionally forces you into a situation where you have a panic attack, or if you have OCD and someone forces you to feel "dirty" --and I don't mean to help you, like under a shrink's care, but because they don't care or to entertain themselves so they can laugh at you), shouldn't you be compensated for it, same as if a person further injures someone with a broken leg or a physical illness?

i think putting yoruself in a situation where you are chatting with a child, means that you do not want to get better. This is just exposing that fact.

all great points. like i said, I dont necessarily disagree with the show. I just wonder if in fact there IS no rehabilitation, or if we just have not discovered it yet.

Remember, it's the pedophile who is seeking... the person on the other end of the conversation is not making them become a pedophile! It is illegal because regardless of who they really are chatting up, if THEY think it's a minor, then it's illegal here.

BTW some men who have been caught do take the offer of getting shots to balance their testosterone (problem is they quit getting the shots) and others have been castrated..which ends the lust. Doesn't sound quite like only a mental illness to me. But if it were just a hormone problem, why would only minor children satiate it?

IMO one can't tolerate this behavior just because it might be a mental illness. We don't allow psychotic ppl to injure others (or themselves if we can prevent it) just because they are psychotic do we?

What this means imo is that instead of jail time and community listing, they should be in mental wards? They don't have enough room for those of us who want to get well, what would happen if they were all filled with ppl who don't want to (and indeed, don't believe they are mentally ill?) IDK.

I agree, it needs to be an ongoing process...whether it's publicized for ratings or not. Education will make society do something maybe?

It was my belief at one point that if a man was castrated, it would end the "lust." At that time, also, I had a friend who was an active foster mom and fought for the rights and safety of children. She informed me that even cutting all the sexual organs from a man would not "cure" his perversion. Her words were "Tomi, they still have fingers, hands, toes and tongues. They'll do ANYTHING to satisfy their perversion."

And what are we going to do with women pedophiles? They can't be castrated. My grandmother was a pedophile. She raped me when she was 70+ yrs of age. No hormones there! I was the last grandchild born. How many of my cousins did she rape before I came along??

I refuse to believe that it's a mental illness or that has to do with faith or religion. This woman used to carry her Bible everywhere she went! Sacrelidge if you ask me! Too bad it didn't burn her hands when she held it!!

So... what do you do with women pedophiles?? Make then live out in the desert like they used to do with lepers! Let them eek out their own living in the hubs of hell! When a pedophiles molests or rapes a child, it is SOUL MURDER! Even death is too good for them! Too easy!

Given our society's rules, prison is the only answer... for LIFE!

Sorry if this comment upsets anyone -

pediphelia a mental disorder is it fair

ok

Schizophrenia - mental disorder BUT if they commit murder the law is clear either the person goes to jail and recieves medication or they go to a prison mental facility until they are deemed sane to stand trial.

To me mental disorders is NO excuse expecially with all the technology and treatment there is out there and yes there is treatment for pediphilia there are MANY MANY convicted child molestors who have done thier time and are out and living in communitys in "group homes" on medication and must meet strict parole requirements and so on. Here there are 3 group homes for convicted sex offenders that I know of.

given all the options for mental health here in the USA I still say do the crime do the time regardless of mental disorder or not.

Besides that I used to attend prison offender inmate programs as a guest speaker and each time there were at least 300 convicted sex offenders and not one of them claimed it was from a mental disorder even those that tried to use that as a defense. A few tried to blame it on their child and adult victims but not on mental disorder. course this was some time ago too.

Exactly. (however I was not referring to the inability to use a body part that prevented the act...but castration that removes the testosterone ...etc)

And we need more research and "trapping" of women pedophiles...seems all they are able to catch these days are teachers! One would think that with the removal of the "nurturer" stereotype when women went to work and left the child with Mr Mom... things would change. They didn't imo.

No one questions women with girls... or even women babysitting small boys...
how much more confusing is this for the child??? grrrrr

It's epidemic imo...and leads me right back to the idea of tolerance for ppl to "do their own thing" when it comes to porn... from filthy tv shows and advertisements to the building down the street. Societies must have limits, and those limits will not be liked by some...

Mental ilness, genetic mutation, I don't really care what the 'cause' of pedophilia is, what I have learned is that there is no cure. Whatever drives these people is uncontrollable.

Anybody know: has anybody done those color brain photos of pervert brains? (Sky? you maven of references?)

My understanding of the behavior is that they cruise for vulnerability. Wherever they are, whatever they are doing, they are looking for a victim. Having adult volunteers as targets for them to come upon for their pounce is to me, brilliant.

Let the sickos act out in a a way that gets them caught for a change. Why do some of us feel guilty for being smart enough to get one step ahead of the bastards? "We" get to lie in wait for them for a change. If they don't stop until caught, let's go catch 'em.
Go Perverted Justice!! ))))))) PJ (((((((((
Go Dateline GO!!! ))))))) )) Dateline (((( ( ((((

(When Mom cleaned out Dad's stuff after he died, there were a set of braids from the head one of my childhood friends. When Mom mentioned it over the phone, I was instantly washed with nausea and loathing. I can only wonder if he somehow got her too.)

I'm right there beside you, Bunny!!!

How can anyone feel anything but SICKNESS AND LOATHING towards these people!!

It's not an illness, it's a PERVERSION wrought upon the helpless and innocent!! Yes, let's lay in wait for THEM! Turn THEM into the hunted and not the hunter!

Pedaphiles deserve any and all embarrassment, harrassment or anything else they get.

My counselor told me that pedaphiles and sociopaths are the only two sections of the population which cannot be cured. There is no cure for them and they need to be locked away to protect society from them and their actions.

Catch every single one of them and lock them away forever and I don't care what means you use to do it.

January

Phooie Spit Spit.................. (they make me sick)

I try not to watch those kinds of shows any more, they just leave me feeling empty and without love.... I know all about it so why relive my past with these sick individuals? - I already can never forget.

((((((( HUGS ))))))) ~ ~ ((((((( PRAYERS ))))))) ~ ~ ((((((( SUPPORT )))))))


LoVe,
Rhapsody -

Thank goodness everybody is very open minded and respectful to one another's opinions, that's the type of behavior is what we need in order to discuss serious topics such as this one. I really appreciate all who have replied, even if we stand on different grounds. Either way it's okay......and very respected.

Rainbowz made the point I was trying to make earlier and it was said very well. I agree very much with what you said about how it's like luring an alcoholic with booze.

It's not necessarily Perverted Justice I disagree with. The actions they take to catch the perverts are completely necessary because what ever needs to be done to protect an innocent child, needs to be done. But I think the part I disagree with is luring these men into a house and damaging their lives forever. Now if a child predator was caught stalking and committing an illegal sexual crime on a child, that would be the type of behavior I wouldn't mind confronting with the life time of embarrassment and having a permanent record indicating so. All I'm saying is these men came to see children who acted older, and were very interested in having anonymous sex while their parents were away. It's luring!!.....a trap!

Believe it or not the only crime these men committed was the attempt in having sex with a minor.

Of course like with other large issues we all face in life I'm sort of stuck in the middle. I know child predators deserve to pay.....probably worse then any other crime because it is so disgusting. Then again I feel these men in this specific series are being entrapped.

Thanks all for replying and saying what was on your mind.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Pornography and Rape: Is There a Connection?

The literature in this area is substantial and growing. A few examples follow:

In a comparative study of rape rates in the USA, Scandinavia, Britain, Australia and New Zealand, Court (1984) found a connection between the availability of pornography and the level of rape. He specifically refutes earlier studies that purported to show otherwise, particularly in relation to Australia, where the uniform crime data:

actually support the case for an increase [in rape rates after the liberalisation of pornography] quite convincingly (Court 1984, p. 158).
In the USA, the eight major men's magazines (Chic, Club, Gallery, Genesis, Hustler, Oui, Playboy and Penthouse) have sales that are five times higher per capita in Alaska and Nevada than in other states such as North Dakota and rape rates that are six times higher per capita in Alaska and Nevada than North Dakota. Overall a fairly strong correlation was found between rape and circulation rates in the fifty states, even with controls for potential confounding variables, such as region, climate, propensity to report rape and police practices (Milne-Home 1991; Baron & Straus 1985 cited in United States Attorney-General's Commission on Pornography 1986, p. 944-5).

Exposure to pornography of less than five hours over a six-week period resulted in a halving of sentences thought appropriate for rape (Malamuth 1984). Malamuth (1986) links pornography to the level of hostility felt towards women and, further, finds the level of hostility is a significant predictor of sexual violence.

In New South Wales, in the period 1975-91, a time during which pornography has become increasingly available, there has been a 90.6 per cent increase in the level of rape (Categories 1-3 Sexual Assault) (New South Wales Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research 1991; New South Wales Police Statistics Unit 1988-89).

In the USA, while the overall homicide rate declined, sex-related murders rose 160 per cent between 1976 and 1984 (Faludi 1991, p. 11).

A Michigan state police study found that pornography was viewed just before or during 41 per cent of 38,000 sexual crimes committed over twenty years (Pope 1987).

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> (Edward Babinski)

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Many studies have shown in the last 20 years that murderers and ultraviolent criminals have a startling evidence of brain disease. For example, in one such study, 20 of 31 confessed or sentenced murderers had specific neurological diagnoses. Some of the inmates had more than one disorders, and no subject was normal in all spheres. Among the diagnoses were schizophrenia, depression, epilepsy, alcoholism, alcoholic dementia, mental retardation, cerebral palsy, brain injury, dissociative disorders and others. More than 64 % of them appeared to have frontal lobe abnormalities. Fifty percent had brain atrophy and 40 % had EEG abnormalities. Almost 84 % of the subjects had been victims of severe physical and/or sexual abuse. The group of murderers included gang members, rapists, robbers, serial murderers, mass murderers, one subject who killed his infant son, and another who murdered three siblings.


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> (Sabbatini,RME)

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
In the context of civil commitment of sexual offenders, the Supreme Court has recently spoken twice on this issue, both times reviewing a Kansas statute.8 The Kansas act authorizes civil commitment of a "sexually violent predator," defined as "any person who has been convicted of or charged with a sexually violent offense and who suffers from a mental abnormality or personality disorder which makes the person likely to engage in repeat acts of sexual violence."9 In Kansas v. Hendricks, the Court held the Act constitutional against a substantive due process claim because it required, in addition to proof of dangerousness, proof of the defendant's lack of control. "This admitted lack of volitional control, coupled with a prediction of future dangerousness, adequately distinguishes Hendricks from other dangerous persons who are perhaps more properly dealt with exclusively through criminal proceedings."10 Id. at 360. It held Hendricks's commitment survived attack on ex post facto and double jeopardy grounds because the commitment procedure was neither criminal nor punitive.11

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">( Neuroethics: The Neuroscience Revolution, ethics and the law)

There are thousands of references. However, a common thread, imo concerns the prefrontal cortex. In youth offenders, it's argued that this area of the brain (which governs impulse control) is not yet developed. In adults, it's possible that images of porn and violence impresses this area of the brain and reduces their impulse control? IDK I haven't really studied this at all. But there is plenty of data out there to read.

While we're in the area... I remember reading long ago about the high percentage of men who were in prison for committing aviolent crime, and the incidence of head injury/impact (as beating or boxing might produce.)