Dateline Predator Series

desirae, you have a right to your opinion. i do agree with you that it is entrapment.

but, i do not have any sympathy for anyone who "attempts" to violate an innocent child or underage teen. adults luring and grooming underaged children/teens (for sexual exploitation etc.) need to be put in jail.

until children/teens reach the legal age of adulthood (18), then it is our responsibility to keep them safe and protected from perverts.

there are boundaries . . . these perverts are willing to cross the boundaries and break the law and violate others, all for their (the perverts') pleasure.

as a child, i was groomed and eventually raped. as a preteen, i was exploited sexually. i was given gifts and was "convinced" i wanted the "special" attention. what a mind-*****. i'm still not right in the head from all the emotional abuse associated with the sexually perverted attention i received as a child/teen. i cannot hear the words "i love you" without being triggered into dissociation. no one should have to be triggered by hearing those words "i love you."

every child deserves the right to grow up in a healthy and safe environment. if it means entrapping these perverts, then i'm all for it. break the law, you go to jail.

Desirae, hon, can you hear what you just said?,"The only crime these men committed was the attemp in having sex with a minor." They tried but failed so they get off? We can't do anything till they ruin some innocent child's life in ways most of us here at PC can personally relate to?

PJ and Dateline have done judo on them. Used their own initiatives against them. If they weren't cruising they wouldn't have come upon the decoy. And if they were decent people, it wouldn't matter how old the poster was or what he or she posted, a decent person would not "go there" into the sex talk and further to set up a sexually charged meeting.

The second they set their sights on a kid, they are fair game in my book.

The beer/alcoholism analogy doesn't fly with me. An alcoholic tries to destroy their own soul. A pedophile goes for the innocent soul of another. (But, you notice, cops can stop anybody they even think is driving while impaired from alcohol.)

The basis is this imo: the law was made, and that's what they are breaking. It is illegal to solicit a minor using the internet. THEY know the law also. What should happen to any of us who knows the law, but chooses to disregard it, as though it doesn't apply to them?

Believe it or not the only crime these men committed was the attempt in having sex with a minor.

"the only"? In my book, that's more that enough.

Also, statistics show that by the time someone is caught, it's not been the first time. So, according to statistics, I highly doubt it's the "only" time as well.

As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, my entire life could've been different if ONLY something like this had been out there then, along with the awarenesses, stiffer penalties, etc. Also, my main abuser had three victims prior to me.

I'm all for this program and the others like it. It's "black and white" for me. If the person believes/knows who they're going to meet is a minor, it's a crime...

KD

I am rather shocked at the folks that are showing pity for the men who were caught on the Dateline show.......Someone said these guys were set up and now their lives are ruined..... OMG.... And that the "child" acted older..... And if you had a 13 year old daughter and a 30 year old man with condoms and alcohol was meeting her when you were not home.. and you came home early before anything happened... would you like just tell the man hey it is ok, nothing happened.. so go on home....

Well first of all, they all knew the age of this girl... Does that give a 30 year old man an excuse to have sex with her.....because the l3 year old acted older??????

And if I recall, each and every man on the show said they KNEW IT WAS WRONG and yet they still brought condoms and alcohol to the child's house.........HELLO ... THe men all brought condoms..... And their intentions was not to fill them with water and have a water fight....

I cannot see how a grown man of 30/40 could even be interested in a 13 year old... Is it really the act of sex?? Or is it gratification by control??? And some of these guys even go for much younger girls........

For those of you who have pity for the men caught,, next time you are at the mall, look a 13 year girl... then look at a 40 year old man..... see the having sex.... doesn't it make you just want to puke thinking of it......... and yet you say they guys lives are now ruined because they only tried to have sex..... How would you feel if your husband was having sex with a 13 year old??? Wouldn't you want to know>???

BTW, if dateline was not there... all of those innocent looking men would have gotten a 13 year old drunk or high and had sex.... am glad dateline caught them..............

Radio, I agree with you. These men's lives weren't ruined because they were exposed to the public! The crawled out of the gutter to begin with! If some lawyers, doctors, etc., got caught, (I don't know) it's MO that they were probably some of the more deceitful ones; the ones that had honed their power plays even more sharply than the other ones. THEY are responsible for their actions. THEY ruined their life! THEY are fair game at any and all costs!

I have compassion for every single human being on this planet. Keep in mind that does NOT mean that I agree or condone the activities we speak of. In no circumstance do
I do that. But yes, I do feel bad that someone would have these thoughts and have to act on them, stirring up so much trauma for everyone involved.

Coming from a background full of abuse myself, I know first hand the trouble it can bring. But, I can also understand that these situations have more than just the face value for issues.

YEs, it is a problem, and yes, it should be stopped. Again I didn't say anything about not agreeing with the program. I just wanted to open up a conversation about the other side of things.

And pedophaelia is a mental illness by the DSM! It has already been proven to be a mental illness so I am not sure there is any way to debate it, and I also think that if we are going to debate the issue we should be able to provide solid proof of why or why not it is a mental illness. I mean, if someone is psychopathic and kills, yes it is awful and horrible and must be stopped, but we also know they are sick and understand that.

http://www.psychcentral.com/disorders/sx63.htm

here is the DSM definition.

The problem I have is this. If all we ever do is say "they are sick, there is no helping them, we should just shoot them/kill them/castrate them/lock them up" Then how can we ever possibly know if there is a cure or treatment? And I don't think it is fair to pull the "no room in the mental hospitals" card, because that is not the mentally ill's fault. That is something that society needs to take up or the government needs to take a look at, because it is simply an issue of providing the proper care to everyone that requires it. Why not form hospitals solely based on this horrible, horrible situation and have research doctors there to continually investigate them. The ones who agree to go there go to a hospital, the ones who do not, get locked up until such time as they agree to get help.

I realize that I have extremely strong veiws, and that these veiws may offend some. I also realize that some people may not understand what I am trying to say. Please understand that I am not condoning the action.

My opinion if they guys wanted help, they would seek out help.. They don't want help unless they are caught... The sad thing is the child molesters that have served their time in jail go right back out and do it again..... rather scary..... sometimes they go as far as to murder the child...... or murder many children... :*(..

Yes... they deserve help like anyone else.... .But it would involve a lifetime of help.. not just a six week class.... it is something that needs to be watched all of their lives.... are they willing to do this????? . is help availabe??.. i really don't know......I just don't want them around children........should their uncontrollable urge take over......

I don't take pity on them whatsooever........guess my compassion for child molesters flew out the window

Ok I did post some of what I found out there, but don't think I sided with the ideas of castration, or with any excuse to let them go free because of no room at the inn... but those are arguments, imo.

From what I see, the Dateline predators don't quite fit the pattern that the DSM identifies.

Maybe the DSM needs updating in this area also, as children are "physically maturing" much earlier?

It is a societal problem and hopefully Dateline's focus (for whatever purpose) will bring it to light and thus, solution. I mentioned in a thread about recent studies of the prefrontal cortex and how they realized that teens don't have the ability for impulse control and such thought until much later than they thought (into twenty's!) As they continue to study this area of the brain, certainly we will learn more about criminals?

this is one of those "don't get me started" issues. i think i've discussed this previously here, but for those who may not have read what i saw in New Mexico......here goes.

i lived in NM for about 10 years. the Spanish culture there is heavily Catholic. i started reading, and seeing on t.v., about the Catholic priests that were being abused of sexual abuse of say, altar boys, in the Northeast. i had noticed some sort of "rehab" center about ten miles from my house. out of curiousity, i asked around about it and found it to be a "major" rehab facility for pedophilic priests. lo and behold, NM was receiving these priests that were being "spirited" away in the dead of the night to rehab and guess what happened after the priest was "cured"? he was given a parish in NM, where he picked up right where he had left off in the Northeastern part of the US.

one of these "rehabilitated" priests got a young man, aged 15, from _______New Mexico drunk and sodomized him. when the child got away from the man, he made it home and told his parents. they were Catholic. they were absolutely crushed. they finally notified the police. the priest was charged. THE FIRST DAY OF COURT, HE WAS PICKED UP AT THE JAIL, ALLOWED TO CHANGE OUT OF HIS ORANGE JUMPSUIT (THAT EVERY OTHER PRISONER HAD TO WEAR) AND DRESS IN HIS VESTAMENTS. (right word?) COLLAR AND ALL.......

so we sit in a courtroom, watching a Spanish/Catholic jury stare at their priest and listen to a young 15 year old child cry and stammer and finally identify "father_____" who had molested him. my little Spanish neighbor, aged 85, had asked me to go to the trial because she didn't believe that a priest would ever do what he was charged with.

he got probation and community service. the young child had a nervous breakdown and ended up being hospitalized, about a mile from the rehab center where the priest had been "cured"........

i agree with everyone who believes that if an adult soliticts a minor to do ANYTHING untoward, it is illegall, immoral and down right prosecutable.

those people who were caught on Dateline deserve about as much pity and understanding as someone who gets into a car, drunk, and drives head on into a car with a family of five in it......killing them all. that also happened that same year in NM and i'm sure you all read about it or saw it on the news. he went to jail for life.

i applaud and "shout out" for every person who sits down in front of a computer and works to catch one more adult who is trying to have sex with a child. they deserve my respect and i am proud that we still have people who will go to bat for a youngster and catch a predator.

i am very appreciative of all that those groups do. i certainly don't want any of my grandchildren exposed to anyone like these perverts on a computer, on the corner, in the library or in their classroom.

i do understand that a few pedophiles do quit attempting to trap youngsters, but they are few and far between. obviously, the Catholics don't have a handle on it yet. every priest that they "rehabbed" near my village ended up going out and doing it over and over until they were caught again. you have to want to get well, to get well.........

and, as far as "taunting" someone with a mental illness to "act out" against the government or some such fantasy......we're talking about adults who have sex with children.......we aren't talking about adults who topple statues in front of the IRS building. having sex with a child in no way can be compared to anything that was alluded to above. no way, no how........

p.s. a Chancellor was appointed to "handle" the dozens of abuse cases that came out in New Mexico and the first thing that the man did was run a two page ad in the New Mexican advising the Spanish parishioners that they had to up their tithes to pay for all of the settlements that "their" church was having to make to these "so-called "victims of abuse.

NM had the first Hispanic Bishop, in the Catholic Church, and three women in their thirties went on 60 Minutes and exposed the fact that he had taken them camping during their teen years and had slept in their "communal sleeping bag" that he had made especially for them. to this day, no one knows where Bishop Sanchez is. the Vatican, perhaps?

i am not picking on the Catholic Church. it happened here in a Baptist Church. it was only one man.......not hundreds....but he fostered 40 young boys before he was caught. he is a pediatrician.

and, yes, i loved it when Dateline caught the Rabbi on one of the shows. he had the nerve to sniffle and weep about being caught......embarrassment, my ---.......

the pattern seems to be that if you are an authority figure of any sort, male or female, you'll more than likely, if you are so disposed, be able to lure your victims right to you. look at the female school teachers that have been caught recently.

an adult doing anything sexual with a child is wrong. no pity, no second chances, straight to jail.....pass go.........

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All I'm saying is these men came to see children who acted older, and were very interested in having anonymous sex while their parents were away. It's luring!!.....a trap!

Believe it or not the only crime these men committed was the attempt in having sex with a minor.

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The moment they decided to have SEX with a MINOR, they gave up any rights or compassion that humanity might have for them. A pedaphile is a pedaphile is a pedaphile. They should be treated exactly like rabid dogs. Period.

January

Tonight's episode: Caught. A sixth grade teacher who claimed he had never "crossed this line" before. He was charged with EIGHTEEN COUNTS!!

Another man caught one week before his court date for the very same thing! Do they learn? NO! Do they change? NO!

perhaps this is simply too sensitive a topic. I think i will exclude myself, I certainly do not want to offend or hurt anyone accidentaly with my veiws.

I think "everyone's" viiews are important. I have the right to mine... you have your right to yours....... And yes this is a "touchy" or sensitive topic for many...And talking about it is good..... i think i need to take a lil break from it too... prob will maybe just read.....

I agree... we are all full of opinions, and they are all important, plus an indicator of where we have been and where we are???

I think we have pretty much expressed most of the sides of the argument..imo.. but being the philosopher I am ....

You already KNOW I do not condone pedophile's behavior. Now, let's think further (like someone mentioned?)... WHAT IF... they really do not have the capacity to change, or to discipline themselves? WHAT IF it is a true mental illness? (Don't get into the mud of what they do... we all agree it's horrible.)... There are plenty of members here who are struggling with mental illness... sometimes with elements of it that are out of control... I am thankful that my mental illness does not harm others... but what if???

This might be a non sequitur, idk. How can we add to the solution of this atrocity? (Just trying to take the thread in a new direction?)

It appears that we "put up" with those who are living with an abusive (alcoholic or otherwise abuser) spouse... surely they are harming not only the spouse but the children also? Why aren't we stomping our feet and demanding they be put into jail?

{{{{{{{{{Rainbowzz}}}}}}}}}}}}}} With all due respect, Hon, how can you possibly have compassion for a pervert that knows the difference between right and wrong and continues to do wrong to innocent children that don't know any better and don't have a voice???

I just don't understand your point of view is all. Perhaps I'm still filled with pain and rage at my perpetrator. She took away my babyhood and my childhood and my innocence. Same thing happens to any child that is abused this way. We continue to live with that pain and criminal injustice for the rest of our lives.

My own grandmother was my perpetrator. We were told by her nurse that she "called out" at the moment of her death. With all of my heart, mind and soul, I pray that the demons of hell reached out to take her!!!!! I want to be around the Throne on Judgement Day when the Lord casts her into the firey pit for eternity!!! Long may she burn in the hubs of Hell!!!!!!

Are you feeling anything of what I saying? It's not just me that feels this way, ok? It's every adult that has gone through the same experiences as a child.

IDK that what I'm feeling is also compassion... I don't think so... but it's their ACTS that I hate, not them. I'm not required to like what they do, but I am required to "love" them, through God. None of us is perfect...

I could never befriend someone like this, unless they were truly changing their behavior... but maybe we all already have? They are so secretive... just look at the Miami Psychiatrist they just caught last month!!!! HOw can we draw them out and help them stop this!!!??? IDK. frustration.

Sept,

I understand what you are saying, and this is why i chose to remove myself from most of the discussion.

I feel compassion for all humans because all humans start off with basic goodness, which means some part of them still maintains that basic goodness.

The one thing I wanted to touch on, however, was:

It's every adult that has gone through the same experiences as a child.

I do not necessarily agree. I went through 12 years of it with two different abusers. I don't know if I will ever forgive, but I can understand the why's behind it.

I am only aware that I was molested as a child.. None of my responses to this thread was personal related, as I haven't found the full answers what happened to me. The only way I can relate is with visualizing it happening to other people.. With me, it didn't happen to me...Spent five years in therapy and still nothing. just fragments of stuff... anyway.......

Sky does it again... Makes me think.. and I have to remember where I put my thinking cap.....Maybe when I remember where the thinking cap is i can also remember to run spell check for typos...

Just have one comment...haven't read the whole thread, please don't flame.

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Believe it or not the only crime these men committed was the attempt in having sex with a minor.

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You are correct desirae, however, isn't attempted murder/manslaughter/robbery also a crime? Just because they were unsuccessful does not mean it wasn't a crime.

There is no cure for these sexual predators, I've read and seen stuff on this, they can chemically castrate them with homones, claim it deadens the urges, but come on, almost everyone after release go and do the crime again. This "wanna be cure", is like my chewing nicorette (nicotine gum) instead of smoking, only takes a teeny edge off, but I still want to smoke,craving it so much I dream I'm still smoking. When I'm near smokers I get antsy,craving them even more. That's a quick analogy but hope some get the point of what I mean.
Just the thought of these creeps, touching a little boy or girls, gets me angry, and scared for the next victim he or she will suck into their traps.
Just my 2 cents,but I have no sympathy for them.

Wow, all these posts in only one day! I was out, so I'm catching up late.

As I understand, the attempt to lure a child itself is a crime. Those of you who stated that are correct. I've already stated that I don't support pedophiles and that I believe they need to be put away from the public.

I do believe pedophilia is a mental illness. It's a sexual desire, one that hurts others. As for the person who said if a pedophile wanted help, he would seek it (I just went through four pages of posts, so please forgive me if I don't remember everyone who said what), that's not likely true. For one thing, psychiatrists and psychiatrists have to report anyone who tells them they seek to harm a child (if I'm not mistaken), so a pedophile may want help, but be afraid to "come out" to the police and possibly the public. I'm NOT saying pedos shouldn't be reported; just saying this is why they aren't likely to seek help. The other thing is, years ago, Dear Abby received a letter from a man who said he had these desires, and wanted her help. She called the police, and he was arrested. However, he thanked her, because he got some help (but I don't know if he's under control, if it's at all possible, or what now).

Pedophiles usually don't seek to harm children. They believe they're showing love to a child and that sex with children is healthy. Furthermore, they think children want sex. I've heard pedophiles say of a little girl, that she's flirting with him, when all she's doing is playing and smiling. Their minds are twisted. That they think they're showing love and say the things they do to a child, is extremely damaging and confusing to a child in ways I don't have to tell anyone here.

Predators, on the other hand, seek to harm. They intentionally seek victims.

If we're ever going to be able to identify and maybe even cure a person dangerous to children before they commit harm, we need to understand the difference.

As for your research content (that I'm sure you asked permission for before copying and pasting it to these boards), _Sky, that shows porn makes rapists, I can give you just as much research and more to show it doesn't. I don't have time tonight because I've got to get to bed in a bit, but if you want it, just ask. Rape and sex crimes are lower in more open societies.

I look at porn, and I don't rape. I know plenty of people who view and even create porn, who have no sex criminal history. I can show you a history of people who use the Bible to commit crimes and perform heinous acts, though. And numbers and statistics can be manipulated to support any view for any thing. You can get two different answers to the same question from one person, based on how you word the question each time.

Way back in the mid 70's I participated in producing a Conference on Violence Against Women. Here we are 30 years later and the only things that're changed is how we talk about sex crimes, support for victims, sensitized cops and hospitals and courts and, and, and: all after the fact changes.
Not a dang thing has changed as far as prevention that I can see. Anybody help me out here, a little hope on the PRE side???

Just to stay well-informed, I offer this from Psychology Today...

Causes (of Pedophilia)

The precise cause or causes of pedophilia (and other paraphilias) are not known. There is some evidence that pedophilia may run in families, but this could suggest either a genetic or a learned behavior effect.

Other factors, such as abnormalities in male sexual hormones or the brain chemical serotonin, have been hypothesized but never proved as factors in the development of paraphilias or pedophilia. A history of childhood sexual abuse has also been put forth as a factor in the development of pedophilias but this, too, has not been proved.

Nathan, Gorman and Salkind (1999) provide the following survey of current theories regarding the etiology of paraphilias. Behavioral learning models suggest that a child who is the victim or observer of inappropriate sexual behaviors learns to imitate and is later reinforced for the behavior. Compensation models suggest that these individuals are deprived of normal social sexual contacts and thus seek gratification through less socially acceptable means. Physiological models focus on the relationship between hormones, behavior and the central nervous system with a particular interest in the role of aggression and male sexual hormones.

Here's the link to the entire article:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/condi...edophilia.html

DJ