[venusss]

So i was surfing the netz and came across this



I wonder why it is that people get all insulted and offended... by the term "emotional". As if they'd rather have broken brain and nothing than a broken brain...

Yes, I do think most of what we call "mental illness" is indeed to huge degree emotional problems. Inability to handle and express emotions in right and healthy way. Problems with dealing with emotions.

For me it's invalidating to say it's all genetics or that I feel the way I feel because my brain produces little of this chemical and too much of that chemical. Just... no.

I think we have problems with emotions in societal level... many emotions are considered bad (sad is bad, angry is bad, too enthusiastic is bad (because it annoys and confuses boring bland people, I suppose)... we are not taught how to handle emotional problems.

So why is it people feel "emotional problems" is oh-so-offensive? I am not getting it.

[Trippin2.0]

Maybe for some broken brain is easier to accept than I cant handle my shyt?

People generally dont "like" to assume responsibility, its just something we end up HAVING to do. So I honestly think it may have to do with "its not my fault my brain is broken".... Yes they still carry the responsibilty for their actions that way (hopefully) but it doesn't feel as bad as "I cant keep my shyt together", because the latter suggests an inadaquacy on a personal level not a bilogical deficiency.

Idk hey Venus but I think the topic is interesting...

I personally do not prefer broken brain. I prefer brain wired differently and I need to work harder at handling my emotional responses.

Why? Simply because it means I have some type of say! What kind of control freak would I be without?

[Hellion]

Not sure it is nessisarily an insult, though I would say a lot of mental illnesses/disorders go further than emotional problems...so it can seem ignorant to claim someone just has emotional problems as its a bit of a simplication. But I doubt its necessarily meant as an insult if someone says that.

[venusss]

why "just" emotional problems?

I think that is a simplification how deep can emotional troubles lead. Traumas, disappointments, loses... they affect one deeply. So if you go through bad time because of them are you "ill"?

I would never say it's "just" emotional, like I wouldn't say "just" a grief, or "just" a trauma. It's sad we have to consider something illness and pull "it's biological" out of arse (since there's no definite proof) for it to be taken seriously.

[-jimi-]

Everything about mental illness is not pure emotion like something you can handle by lifestyle and better thinking. Like OCD and hallucinations I'd rather see as illness than as "emotional problems" and I think it IS an insult saying your brain bombarding you repetitively with weird thoughts like a dang hail storm, is emotional problems.

I can see how emotional problems more have to do with those diagnoses where emotions are the main factor. But ALL mental illness is NOT like that, sometimes the emotional distress is byproduct of the thoughts/hallucinations/obsessions.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

why "just" emotional problems?

I think that is a simplification how deep can emotional troubles lead. Traumas, disappointments, loses... they affect one deeply. So if you go through bad time because of them are you "ill"?

I would never say it's "just" emotional, like I wouldn't say "just" a grief, or "just" a trauma. It's sad we have to consider something illness and pull "it's biological" out of arse (since there's no definite proof) for it to be taken seriously.

As far as I know there are biological factors that can factor into ones mental illness/disorder, it's certainly not the only factor but it's there along with any environmental and social factors that might have contributed.

[TheDragon]

Yay! More politically correct thingies online! Ugh...

Let's be fair, a lot of mental health issues that people have ARE emotional problems. People simply don't want to admit that they have an issue that they need to address, and perhaps grow and mature. "It's an illness just like any other illness" suggests there's a lack of personal responsibility. Why does calling it an emotional problem invalidate one's experiences? Because we're not immediately hopping on the sympathy train?

Until people are realistic about mental health, they can go about it any way but will fail to get rid of the stigma.

[lizardlady]

Folks, there's a growing body of evidence to show that mental health problems have a physical cause. That doesn't relieve the person of personal responsibility for their actions. Venus you mention grief and trauma as "emotional" problems. There's evidence that trauma and prolonged grief cause changes to the person's body.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by TheDragon

Yay! More politically correct thingies online! Ugh...

Let's be fair, a lot of mental health issues that people have ARE emotional problems. People simply don't want to admit that they have an issue that they need to address, and perhaps grow and mature. "It's an illness just like any other illness" suggests there's a lack of personal responsibility. Why does calling it an emotional problem invalidate one's experiences? Because we're not immediately hopping on the sympathy train?

Until people are realistic about mental health, they can go about it any way but will fail to get rid of the stigma.

I think that assumption gets made about a lot of people where that is not the case, hence why people get offended over it. For instance the mental problems I have are not an issue of needing to grow and mature it's quite a bit more serious than that. The idea that one is to blame for their mental problems and/or severity irritates me, sure personal responsibility is important but can be taken too far.

Everyone probably has room to grow and mature, but mental illness is not really a case of not trying hard enough to do so.

[Perna]

"Emotional problems" is more subjective, has no established meaning, where as "mental illness" has diagnoses certifying them as a mental illness.

I agree that it is not "just" emotional problems; depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc. usually have emotional problems along with the illness, but having emotional problems does not guarantee the opposite, that you have a mental illness.

I don't see it as an insult, just an indication of ignorance on the part of anyone who would define mental illness as "emotional problems"; but I've never known anyone who thought/expressed the concept of mental illness that way.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by lizardlady

Folks, there's a growing body of evidence to show that mental health problems have a physical cause. That doesn't relieve the person of personal responsibility for their actions. Venus you mention grief and trauma as "emotional" problems. There's evidence that trauma and prolonged grief cause changes to the person's body.

growing evidence? I am bit tired of "we are close to finding genes responsible for this and that... any decade now".

Grief and trauma "can cause" (likely, may, it's believed... fancy way of saying "we still don't know, but it could be that...") physical changes. Well, then you got neuroplasticity theories... that suggest that the physical can be changed (which would mean that all the "it's physical" doesn't mean all that much).

And again since the body of evidence is growing... why is not general well being growing as well? Why if we know the cause... why aren't we able to deal with it? We have fancy drugs... but do they really solve something?

[-jimi-]

I don't think you can mature out of some issues. You can do your best to handle them though. I don't think most people with problems are immature.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

growing evidence? I am bit tired of "we are close to finding genes responsible for this and that... any decade now".

Grief and trauma "can cause" (likely, may, it's believed... fancy way of saying "we still don't know, but it could be that...") physical changes. Well, then you got neuroplasticity theories... that suggest that the physical can be changed (which would mean that all the "it's physical" doesn't mean all that much).

And again since the body of evidence is growing... why is not general well being growing as well? Why if we know the cause... why aren't we able to deal with it? We have fancy drugs... but do they really solve something?

Knowing that there are likely genetic factors that can make one more prone to mental illnesses/conditions is not the same thing as knowing the cause. All that is really known in that regard is multiple factors contribute to mental illness including genetic per-disposition that increases the risk and environmental and social factors also play a role.

Drugs are to allievate symptoms which some of them do, but they wont cure a mental disorder or illness, some mental health professionals may be a bit misleading and try and indicate a medication will solve someones problems but it can only reduce symptoms(that is if it works). Maybe a better approach would be to see what can be done about some of the environmental/social factors since its unlikely they will find a specific gene or brain difference.

[TheDragon]

Originally Posted by Hellion

Everyone probably has room to grow and mature, but mental illness is not really a case of not trying hard enough to do so.

See, my problem with this thought is this - When one learns to deal with their illness well and lead a fulfilling life, regardless of preexisting conditions, they stop seeing it as an illness. It's the case with many that have lived with cancer, amputees, diabetes, etc. Very frankly (and this isn't directed at anyone), I really do think that most people can try harder and do more.

I understand that on a literal level, mental illness isn't because people aren't trying hard enough to get better, or lead better lives,

Honestly though, at this point it's almost a theology debate based on core beliefs. I firmly believe in moving forward without ignoring one's issues, rather than focusing on the issue. It's evident we all focus on it differently.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by Perna

"Emotional problems" is more subjective, has no established meaning, where as "mental illness" has diagnoses certifying them as a mental illness.

I agree that it is not "just" emotional problems; depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc. usually have emotional problems along with the illness, but having emotional problems does not guarantee the opposite, that you have a mental illness.

I don't see it as an insult, just an indication of ignorance on the part of anyone who would define mental illness as "emotional problems"; but I've never known anyone who thought/expressed the concept of mental illness that way.

my problem with "just emotional" problem is not that there's "illness" alongside of it... it's downplaying seriousness of emotional problems.

And as for diagnosis... it's social construct... just anything else. Just because there's some "official" (but not universally agreed on) definition doesn't make it universal everlasting truth.

And btw, nice to meet you, Perna. I am an ignorant person who doesn't believe in concept of "mental illness" that much, but believes it's a lot about emotional distress.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by jimi...

I don't think you can mature out of some issues. You can do your best to handle them though. I don't think most people with problems are immature.

You can always mature of grow wiser.

[-jimi-]

Everyone can, not just troubled people.

[Perna]

I'm saying it does not matter what someone calls it but those who are insulted when it's called emotional problems instead of mental illness (not those, like you who think it is emotional problems, just those who are insulted if it is called emotional problems) are probably wanting something more definitive.

I believe a problem is always subjective; your "problem" might not be my problem but "illness" everyone pretty much understands. So, if you want to call it an "emotional illness" that might make some of the "mentally ill"-only people happy but "emotional" can be subjective too and does not cover those illnesses that have more than emotional aspects to them. I believe "mental" does because our thinking/brain can cause problems with our body and emotions; someone suffering from a somatoform disorder displays physical difficulties, not emotional ones.

[Open Eyes]

It seems that you are thinking alot about "people might be choosing" to struggle with emotional problems, especially when they have experienced "trama". What you do not realize is that the brains of "trama patients" and people who develope "PTSD" go through a "change" Venus. It is not the person's fault, and it is not "just" a matter of deciding "not to be so emotional".

It is now known that people who suffer from PTSD have experienced damage to their hypocampus, which controls emotional responses by transforming sensory stimuli into emotional and hormonal signals then refers this information to other parts that control behavior.

The amygdala is also affected which interprets messages of danger or safety. The amygdala knows nothing about reasoning or cognitive funtions, it deals with feelings and emotions. It also controls emotional reactions such as fear and anger.

The frontal cortex ability is decreased with less ability to do left-brain functions--it can't distinguish a real threat from a false threat.

I could go even further with the "changes" that take place in the brain, which does effect emotions, but it is not an "easy fix' nor is it a simple "just do this or that" for the person who is struggling. It is actually "cruel" to expect people that struggle with these "brain changes" to be able to function normally, because it isn't simply a matter of "deciding to just not react or struggle".

Every day 20 vets commit suicide because the challenge of PTSD is so exhausting for them. God only knows how many patients who struggle with PTSD that are "not" veterans of war give up. And none of these people give up without trying very hard to find a way to function better. It can be very crippling and exhausting because the entire limbic system is challenged to where the trama victim responds before the "thinking" part of the brain (ie., cerebral cortex) can weigh threats. The resultant hypervigilance seen in trauma victims can cause them to go immediately from stimulus to and arousal response, without being able to make the intervening assessment of the cause of their arousal.

The reason so many PTSD patients seek to "isolate" is because they are trying to reduce the challenge of being stimulated in a way where they lose control of how their brains respond where they cannot "intervene with these normal assessments that others do so "effortlessley". The way others offer "just" advice is not something a PTSD victim is capable of doing, so when others make these suggestions, and often do so in "condescending" manners, PTSD patients get very frustrated and angry because they can't seem to explain to others "THAT THEY CAN'T "JUST" DO THAT" now that they have PTSD damage to their brains.

What I am saying here is "not" just my opinion either. I have had to painstakenly research it to understand "why" I struggle so much and am often so very challenged by not being able to "JUST" like I used to be able to do. It is SO MUCH WORK for me to try to work around these changes that have taken place in my brain. And when others respond with comments like, "I have had bad things happen to me too, you just have to move on and not dwell, or learn to get over it" I do get upset tbh, because it is so disrespectful to a very real challenge that is often very crippling.

A broken brain? Well, I hate to think of it like that, but if you study the effects PTSD has on the brain and how a person is "really" challenged by that "change", yes there are parts of the brain that do not function normally anymore.

It is important to remember that for as much as we "have" learned about the human brain, and we have learned alot just in the last 5 years alone, there is still much we do not know. If you were to talk to a neurologist, and I have, they say, the information is there, but we havent been able to completely understand the language where we fully understand what we are seeing. And we "are" studying the brain in an effort to try to not only "understand" the very real challenges that people face, but to see if there are ways to restore better function to the areas of the brain that are not functioning right so that these patients can get some relief.

[LovelaceF]

I think people who are struggling with any difficulty whatsoever need sympathy, and empathy from others, if not outright understanding. That is part of what helps someone heal. Sympathy can be difficult to give sometimes though, because it is often very obvious to the person standing outside and looking at the struggling person who has "emotional problems", that this emotionally troubled person is creating their own issues.

People become very upset when they hear advice like:

"Buck up"
"Pull yourself up by your bootstraps"
"Grow a thicker skin"
"Think positive"

What emotionally troubled people sometimes don't realize, though, is that this kind of advice comes from an honest place. It's what others have done to overcome their own emotional difficulties. If you're stuck in a cycle of negative thinking, the solution is quite literally to "think positive".

The broken brain theory absolves people of the responsibility for resolving their own problems, which makes it appealing to some and unappealing to others. Personally, I think that there are some mental health problems that people can solve on their own, and others than cannot be resolved independently. One person may be able to grow a thick skin, and another may need therapy. One person may be able to learn to think positive, while another is helped with medication.

I think that there are many paths to wellness and that one should take which ever path leads them to the best possible quality of life.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by LovelaceF

I think people who are struggling with any difficulty whatsoever need sympathy, and empathy from others, if not outright understanding. That is part of what helps someone heal. Sympathy can be difficult to give sometimes though, because it is often very obvious to the person standing outside and looking at the struggling person who has "emotional problems", that this emotionally troubled person is creating their own issues.

People become very upset when they hear advice like:

"Buck up"
"Pull yourself up by your bootstraps"
"Grow a thicker skin"
"Think positive"

What emotionally troubled people sometimes don't realize, though, is that this kind of advice comes from an honest place. It's what others have done to overcome their own emotional difficulties. If you're stuck in a cycle of negative thinking, the solution is quite literally to "think positive".

The broken brain theory absolves people of the responsibility for resolving their own problems, which makes it appealing to some and unappealing to others. Personally, I think that there are some mental health problems that people can solve on their own, and others than cannot be resolved independently. One person may be able to grow a thick skin, and another may need therapy. One person may be able to learn to think positive, while another is helped with medication.

I think that there are many paths to wellness and that one should take which ever path leads them to the best possible quality of life.

The issue with this whole thinking positive thing is, if you're in a sh*tty situation like your life pretty much sucks what is there to be so damn positive about? I see no sense in deluding myself that everythings all good when it's not.

Also the broken brain theory is true...sometimes I wonder what people think mental illness/conditions are. I mean yeah it sucks mental disorders can interfere with functioning and behavior...and no it's not the individuals fault that the symptoms interfere with them that way. If people don't like it tough but that is what mental illness is...not having control of your mind, potentially bothering other people with your problems/symptoms/reactions to your own symptoms, doing things you wish you hadn't all because you had no other way to react. Sure to someone that doesn't have it that bad maybe mental illness looks like a great way to be absolved of responsibility...but I doubt they would want all the pain and misery that comes along with it.

I mean it seems people want mental issues not to be a serious thing, its more comforting to believe someone with a mental illness can just control it and not be effected by it....and that they have just as much control as anyone else over certain behavior when that is simply not the case. I think a lot of times people just forget how serious and not so enjoyable having mental problems is...then maybe even feel resentment when that person can't just overcome it or 'grow thicker skin', 'suck it up' or any of that stuff.

Think of it like this telling someone with serious mental issues who struggles to function to grow thicker skin or similar phrases when they express their struggles would be like telling someone missing a leg to grow it back and get up and walk. Or its like telling them they are weak for having mental problems and need to just toughen up or something. Maybe such advice is sometimes given with good intentions but that is why it can be somewhat damaging.

[LovelaceF]

Originally Posted by Hellion

The issue with this whole thinking positive thing is, if you're in a sh*tty situation like your life pretty much sucks what is there to be so damn positive about? I see no sense in deluding myself that everythings all good when it's not.

You're right, often there is nothing good about the situation a person is in. Thinking positive in a situation like that would be more about figuring out how to change it, get out, turn it around, improve one's life, etc.

[venusss]

I would not tell person who lost leg to grow it back. But I would not support their in whining how life is over over over over for them and how now they will never ever ever ever be able to do anything at all.

There's always a way.

[pachyderm]

I think the problem with those who seem to advocate the "broken brain" idea is that they appear to think that brain brokenness is the origin of the problem, and that the interpersonal experience of a person plays no part in how the trouble began. In fact, I think people who promote this idea are denying that relations-between-people is a causative factor.

One of the clearest examples of this, I think, is E. Fuller Torrey. He is so set against the idea that how people get treated has nothing to do with "serious mental illness" that he has come up with the idea that it must be due to cat viruses. Now, since there are a lot of people also in denial, he has a certain amount of support for his approach. After all, looking at cat viruses statistically does not require one to look into one's own mental processes. That might be really scary!

How can we prove that cat viruses are not the culprits?

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by LovelaceF

I think people who are struggling with any difficulty whatsoever need sympathy, and empathy from others, if not outright understanding. That is part of what helps someone heal. Sympathy can be difficult to give sometimes though, because it is often very obvious to the person standing outside and looking at the struggling person who has "emotional problems", that this emotionally troubled person is creating their own issues.

People become very upset when they hear advice like:

"Buck up"
"Pull yourself up by your bootstraps"
"Grow a thicker skin"
"Think positive"

What emotionally troubled people sometimes don't realize, though, is that this kind of advice comes from an honest place. It's what others have done to overcome their own emotional difficulties. If you're stuck in a cycle of negative thinking, the solution is quite literally to "think positive".

The broken brain theory absolves people of the responsibility for resolving their own problems, which makes it appealing to some and unappealing to others. Personally, I think that there are some mental health problems that people can solve on their own, and others than cannot be resolved independently. One person may be able to grow a thick skin, and another may need therapy. One person may be able to learn to think positive, while another is helped with medication.

I think that there are many paths to wellness and that one should take which ever path leads them to the best possible quality of life.

LovelaceF,

I do understand your thinking here. And I am always trying to present some "positives" for others to consider and try. I always talk about the significance of "learning" and how by being open to "learning" we can often gain more "personal strength". I am also a strong believer in the plasticity of the brain and how individuals can create new pathways to help them get around things they cannot seem to do.

Saying that the "broken brain theory" absolves people from the responsibility of resolving their own problems? Well, that is not really considering the individuals who definitely have a pathology that inspite their strong efforts, still present very "real" challenges. You have to be "careful" when you make a statement like that because for someone who is genuinely "trying" and not making headway, which is due to "real pathology", you can add to their despair and sense of personal failure, which they really don't deserve to battle. Infact I know how badly that can affect someone first hand, I personally got so I felt so bad that I could not seem to "just" that I came dangerously close to taking my own life. At the time I truely did not understand "why" I was struggling so much either. There was absolutely no desire whatsoever to "avoid being responsible for the challenge I was experiencing".

Honestly, if I didn't experience this challenge I am dealing with first hand, I would probably have also made suggestions that would not have been "helpful" to someone struggling like I do now. AND, even though I "do" have a better understanding of what I have, and I have been working very hard at finding ways to overcome it, I can "still" trigger someone else who is struggling with CPTSD with my "positive" suggestions and how "I" am gaining. And the truth is, someone could have even more damage than I do, and their efforts have not helped their condition. And I "have" experienced that challenge.

So, the bottom line is that just because "I" have been able to make some gains, it doesn't mean someone else is at a point where they will be able to do the same. Then I have to remember that at times I was not in any condition to consider trying something new. As a matter of fact, when I was in the beginning stages of PTSD, I had no idea that I was actually going to get even "worse". I had no idea that my flashbacks were going to get a lot worse and even more crippling then I ever imagined. Each person is different depending on what kind of tramas they experienced.

Even depression, one person can have "mild depression" and find some "positive' things to think about and try and make some real gains, while another person can experience more crippling depression where they can bearly even function. It would not be fair to them to consider they are "just being irresponsible" if they can't seem to even function.