[Rise]

I am concerned that if I seek help for mental health issues, namely borderline personality disorder, it will be on my record permanently and I will be discriminated against. I do want help but I am just not ready to submit and hand my life over. I want to be in control of my own life and not be at the mercy of whether other people think that I am a risk or not. I am not a danger to anyone quite the opposite so I believe it should be up to me who gets to know what I have to deal with inside my own head. I feel as though if I seek the help I need then that information will be stored and available to other people. Employers, insurers, clients, etc. What if I want to travel and get a visa to another country? What if I was wrongly accused of something and it came out I had a history of mental health issues? No-one would take me seriously.

Basically I am just wondering what other peoples' experiences with this are? I know that everyone is going to say that I should get the help I need but this is a real concern for me. I feel like having it on my medical records could be more detrimental to my life's achievements than just suffering and trying to deal with it myself. I mean, I've made it this far.

[IndieVisible]

Valid concerns I share as well. I will be watching this thread.

[atomicc]

I feel the exact same way as you. I was so scared that having these diagnosis in my records will hinder my career in some way. Medical records ARE private though so no one is going to see them without a subpoena and at that point you've got quite a few other things to worry about. I think if you honestly feel that you can survive without the help, good for you! I was the same way for very long until recently when certain events have caused me to spiral and I needed help.
My advice...don't let it get to that point. Get help before you DO lose control

[IndieVisible]

Many places require you to list all meds your on as part of their physical which is required for hire. I don't feel they should have the right to do that, but they do. If they see antidepressants, anti-psychotics, benzo's, on your list it doesn't take a genius to figure out some thing is going on here. If you lie and leave them out, and they show up in a drug test then your in another spot too.

[Grey Matter]

^^
you also have the right not to list all of the medications. I listed my allergy medications and my anti-inflammatory, but not the others. They cannot punish you for not enclosing this information because for them to find further information would be a breach of the HIPAA laws.

No one, in the US, can get into your medical records without
1. your consent, given in written form

that is literally it. When you fill out a form for mental health, you will be handed a HIPAA cover letter. The letter will state that the only time information WILL be shared is if there is a court ordered warrant, or you have fallen into a comatose state. Yet, the way to combat the second is to have a living will. Otherwise known as a health care proxy. You can state "My records cannot be open unless I am physically and mentally able to give consent" and there is nothing anyone can do about it, it is legally binding, and trust me, doctors do not want to lose their jobs.

I have seen a nurse lose her job because she was speaking of a patient in a hallway. There is liability on the heads of every person working in a medical practice if any information like this is shared, and it is a large sum of money they will have to pay if the HIPAA laws are ignored.

In short,

- insurers cannot look at your records unless given written consent
- employers have NO access to medical records
- schools have NO access to medical records, besides immunizations, which you still need to give consent for.
- Clients cannot look at your records. Ever.
- It will NOT stop you from getting a visa (I have a passport and a visa)

here is more information and a summary on HIPAA,
Summary of the HIPAA Privacy Rule

I do not know the laws of the UK but I will look into it. That information was for those in the US. I will post more later.

[(JD)]

I'm confused. You already have the diagnosis of borderline personality disorder? If so, it's already on a record somewhere, unless you discussed it with the doctor who diagnosed you and they made it more obscure for now.

[IndieVisible]

It is true employers have NO access to medical records, but they do have a right to ask what meds your in in case of an emergency. I work for a major hospital and we adhere to HIPAA to the letter, they even share a office with us, yet I am required to list all meds I'm on every year just in case I ever need to get hospitalized or sent to ED. I take the risk and do not list all the meds as I honestly feel it is a violation of HIPAA too!

[Grey Matter]

Originally Posted by IndieVisible

It is true employers have NO access to medical records, but they do have a right to ask what meds your in in case of an emergency. I work for a major hospital and we adhere to HIPAA to the letter, they even share a office with us, yet I am required to list all meds I'm on every year just in case I ever need to get hospitalized or sent to ED. I take the risk and do not list all the meds as I honestly feel it is a violation of HIPAA too!

I feel it's a violation, too. I mean if you're on blood thinners, or steroid treatment (like me), then yeah, list that because it's better to be safe than sorry. But I don't understand how my dosage of zoloft will keep me protected if shared. I had surgery about a month ago and they did know of my zoloft because I willingly and openly told them, and it didn't matter at all. I still got my IV's, infusions, and pain killers. And they gave me my zoloft while in IP. I can see that being the only plus.

[Rise]

In the UK we have something called a CRB check, which we have to have done as part of the recruitment process. It gives the company details on criminal convictions etc. There are different levels of CRB check such as basic or enhanced. The basic one just has unspent convictions I believe, the enhanced one has pretty much everything, even what they call 'soft intelligence' which is basically just subjective notes they keep on you. But you wouldn't think that mental health history would come up on a CRB check, after all, CRB stands for 'Criminal Records Bureau' and mental health issues doesn't make you a criminal. Well, apparently it does. Guest blog revealing mental health discrimination in CRB checks | Alastair Campbell Shocking, right? I don't know what level of CRB check it comes under, I would guess that it is just the enhanced check, but still. I have had to have an enhanced CRB check before.

Thanks for all your responses. This is clearly an issue for a lot of people. The world needs to fix up and stop demonising mental health issues.

Originally Posted by atomicc

My advice...don't let it get to that point. Get help before you DO lose control

I appreciate your wisdom on this one. This is the sort of advice that can potentially save peoples lives.

I think I can survive on my own but I guess there is a big difference between just about keeping your head above water in a cold and lonely ocean with the occasional lungful of salt water compared to sitting on a sunny beach. And you're right, you never know when a shark is going to find you and pull you under. I guess by getting help it is like having a raft and a compass to find your way back to shore with.

Originally Posted by (JD)

I'm confused. You already have the diagnosis of borderline personality disorder?

Self diagnosis at the moment. I know that is looked down upon and discredited but to be honest I am fairly sure at this point. I thought I was bipolar/cyclothymic for awhile and perhaps I have those tenancies too, and anxiety, but the more I read about borderline personality disorder the more it just explains everything about me which I thought was so unique and inexplicable. That's what has made me consider getting help because if there is a name for what I suffer from and research done, maybe there is actually some hope.

A checklist of internationally recognised criteria is used to diagnosis BPD. A diagnosis can usually be made if you answer yes to five or more of the following questions:

• has an intense fear of being left alone caused you to act in ways that, on reflection, seem out of the ordinary or extreme, such as constantly phoning somebody (but not including self-harming or suicidal behaviour)?
• do you have a pattern of intense and unstable relationships with other people that switch between thinking you love that person and they are wonderful to hating that person and thinking they are terrible?
• do you ever feel you do not have a strong sense of your own self and are unclear about your self-image?
• do you engage in impulsive activities in two areas that are potentially damaging, such as unsafe sex, drug abuse or reckless spending (but not including self-harming or suicidal behaviour)?
• have you made repeated suicide threats or attempts in your past and engaged in self-harming?
• do you have severe mood swings, such as feeling intensely depressed, anxious or irritable, which last from a few hours to a few days?
• do you have long-term feelings of emptiness and loneliness?
• do you have sudden and intense feelings of anger and aggression, and often find it difficult to control your anger?
• when you find yourself in stressful situations, do you have feelings of paranoia, or do you feel like you are disconnected from the world or from your own body, thoughts and behavior?

The only bullet point here which didn't leave me shocked by the extent of it's accuracy is the self harm one. Even when reading about the factors that contribute to a person having borderline personality disorder they all apply to me, my childhood and my family history. I think its a pretty safe bet.

Hopefully I can get a proper diagnosis and the help I need one way or another I just need to rationalise the whole having it on my record and other people finding out thing. I've never even talked to anyone in real life about mental health issues before, always been too much in denial. Just now am I starting to realise that maybe it won't all just go away and everything will be fine.

[IndieVisible]

Some good news. If you are BPD, you could be what is referred to as a highly functional one. These can hold full time jobs and even stay in relationships including marriage for long periods of time even indefinitely. This group rarely if ever self harms, and rarely seeks help unless presented with no other option. In other words, forced to by spouse, employer or court. You may still want to address the depression and anxiety which can be addressed here in the US by a primary doctor. Basically your going to miss out on the therapy and addressing the root cause of your abandonment issue(s).

[Rise]

Originally Posted by IndieVisible

Some good news. If you are BPD, you could be what is referred to as a highly functional one. These can hold full time jobs and even stay in relationships including marriage for long periods of time even indefinitely. This group rarely if ever self harms, and rarely seeks help unless presented with no other option. In other words, forced to by spouse, employer or court. You may still want to address the depression and anxiety which can be addressed here in the US by a primary doctor. Basically your going to miss out on the therapy and addressing the root cause of your abandonment issue(s).

That news is good Although...... A week and a half ago I couldn't take it any more and I quit my job without really anything tangible to fall back on. I have had a couple of relationships but they have always ultimately failed. I always took it pretty badly too, getting way over attached. The last one finished about four years ago and I pretty much gave up after that and decided that if I dedicate myself completely to my work and be a genius and change the world for the better, then that would be more valuable than me having a happy life.

Despite the evidence suggesting otherwise though, I still think I would be a highly functional, or at least have the potential to be. I was doing about 80 hours a week work between full time job and my own projects and now still doing close to that just on my own projects, since quitting my job. Does that constitute being highly functional? Or do I need like a balanced and healthy life for that?

Thanks for your advice

[gnat]

At work I often request medical records and am rarely asked for an ROI and when I do submit the general form my company uses which is not HIPAA complaint, I am rarely refused.There are certain companies who are very strict and will never violate HIPAA, but most will.

I have lied with my current job. My doctor gave me the diagnosis (two of them did) and I told them both they were wrong and used that as my rationale for lying, even though I know perfectly well I earned the diagnosis. I feel it was wrong for my employer to ask me. (It wasn't on the application, but we had to complete intelligence and personality testing and it was in there. My employer may not even have been notified, but if it was a question they were asking I would say it's obvious they use it to discriminate against applicants).

[MotownJohnny]

Rise, I feel for you, and I have the very same fears. I keep being reassured that HIPPA here in the US protects my records, well, laws can be changed. In the wake of some of the recent gun massacres, especially the Connecticut school massacre, there were hideous ideas being floated around, such as creating a registry of people with mental health issues in the same way sex offenders are registered. It definitely concerns me.

Don't let your diagnosis limit you, trust me, if you worked 80 hours a week you are very functional in the real world.

[(JD)]

Ok I know you aren't in the USA now... the last thing you want to do when seeking therapy is suggest what you think is wrong, or what your diagnosis is... and allow the therapist to determine this. IMO BPD is a diagnosis that came about when doctors weren't sure of what to diagnose...though it has gained more appeal in the later years...I say that so you realize that while it might give you that label you want (so you don't feel "crazy" ==another label I don't like) it isn't really something to be giving a professional. (I think you know this though )

As for those in the USA, HIPAA does not protect our medical files once they are passed on to a 3rd party. HIPAA protects the doctors and offices that pass the files along---we have to give our permission that we won't sue them if the 3rd party- office/people they pass them to misuses them or publicizes them. Really.

[MotownJohnny]

JD, can you elaborate on your comment about HIPPA? What 3rd party would get to see medical records? Insurance companies?

[IndieVisible]

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

JD, can you elaborate on your comment about HIPPA? What 3rd party would get to see medical records? Insurance companies?

When ever you sign a consent form to release your medical records, usually that will be an employer, or an agency the employer uses, that would be the 3rd party.

[Rose76]

I'm thinking that maybe there is a middle-way approach. By that I mean: maybe get help, but don't volunteer the term "borderline personality disorder." Here in the U.S. the term "personality disorder" comes with connotations that I think are unfair to people with that diagnosis. I'm speaking as a consumer of psych services and, also, as someone who worked in the mental health field. I would hear co-workers say things like, "Oh this person is displaying what is basically Axis 2 @#$%." (Axis 2 being the category, in the USA, that encloses all personality disorders.)

I became extremely disillusioned about the attitudes I found toward personality disorders. I'm talking about from people from whom I would have expected more, even psychiatrists. I consider myself to have a cluster C personality disorder (the category associated with anxiety.) However I would never again cooperate with having that label assigned to me. Instead I go with: Mood Disorder - depression with anxiety. That's unfortunate because I would rather get the label that I myself feel is more accurate, but it is just too stigmatizing.

Your concerns are totally valid, I'm sorry to say. I think you kind of have to finesse the system to get the support you need and are entitled to without attracting what you don't need and shouldn't be subjected to.

[Rose76]

By the way, with medical records going electronic, they tend to circulate even more widely than when they were just on paper. It disturbs me that, if I go to a foot doctor for an ingrown toenail, he probably has access to a lot of my psych history just because he is in the same healthcare system as where I get psych care.

Something more needs to be done to restrict access to medical record content. In the USA, HIPPA is getting to be less protective, in my opinion. What HIPPA mainly achieves is that there is a lot of care taken to get you to sign all kinds of waivers.

[gnat]

In my experience (I spend a lot of time collecting medical records if you didn't read my earlier post) the only thing HIPAA does effectively is kill trees. The law is only as good as the people who handle your medical records.

[ECHOES]

Seek help for the symptoms with someone who doesn't feel a need to diagnose. Or, if they do need to make a diagnosis, they are happy to use one part of a whole, such as "Depression", or "Anxiety", or "Adjustment Reaction".

I'm curious too, if you are self-diagnosed?

[Victoria'smom]

I would go to a psychologist that doesn't believe in labels.

[MelissaE76]

well as CNA I worried a lot about this and well they do on the physical forms ask medical conditions and Medication. As someone stated above, I also DO not list all my medication on the form. My biggest fear is being exposed. I have a lot of scars on me especially on my arms from S.I...So in my work that I do everyone needs to get a TB test done every year and a two step at hire. Which means they will see my arms etc etc. Ive been denied one job becuz of my S.I and mental health issues and I honestly believe that its because my scars were visible and they started asking questions that I didnt want to answer and some that I didnt really have a answer for.

Anyways I understand ur concerns.

[thickntired]

Originally Posted by IndieVisible

When ever you sign a consent form to release your medical records, usually that will be an employer, or an agency the employer uses, that would be the 3rd party.

I've never had a request for medical records from an employer just pdoc's or T. I also do not trust that the nurses or medical admin staff will keep my records confidential. My primary Dr. always has new nurses and ones that leave. Well, they leave with my psych info. Another thing that really pisses me off is that dentists ask about psych problems WTH? I never write those down. I never mentioned to my Dr I was bipolar or on adderall. When he found out through one of my stays in the mental ward he didn't say a word about it to me. I think he figured I was embarassed, but I didn't get into trouble or asked to leave.

A new thing in the US after Obamacare is pre-hires have to take physicals to test for things like obesity, smokers, and other common health problems. They sign their rights away to this testing if they want the job. The medical files then go to HR and managment have access to these files. So, when it comes time to cut say 10% of your workforce they can naturally cut the employees who make health care rates higher.

TnT

[Rose76]

I agree with Miguel.

Don't get so restrictively defined, even in your own mind.

This whole system of labels is a useful abstraction that doesn't really totally mirror reality. It just serves to make the thinking more systematic. Our minds can't think directly about reality. So we create a system . . . a model. That's what psychiatry has done. Every scientific system does that. But none of the systematic creations are real. They are reality vastly simplified.

But there are morons who don't understand that and you have to protect yourself against that.

[sweetmadness]

I have a blog which I talk about my coping strategies. The problem is that a good employer might have seen my blog or look up my email and see my writings. So I'm nervous to apply for jobs for that reason.