[drunksunflower]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
heyjoe said:
Well I can see there are people here who live by the creed keep saying it over and over and louder and louder and attack anyone who doesnt agree with me and I prove im right. Im not even going to dignify drunksunflowers insults about me and others with a response. After all what could i possibly say to sway someone who believes he knows more of what abuse victims should feel than they do. By the way for those of you who buy this whole story of the person being told to leave his wife showing up right after he goes and being on chat 6 minutes later, I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

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I wasn't intending to insult you, I am just saying that you are jumping to conclusions.

And you're still assuming you know my blanket opinions and views on the subject. LOL.

[drunksunflower]

By the way, I live in a country that names and shames its sex offenders. You can buy a book listing locations - http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/pindex.htm

But Lostson is not a convicted offender. I believe there is a qualitative difference.

[Maven]

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PasDeDeux said:
Dr John, what is taking you so long Sky wants this thread closed

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I'm not saying anything against Sky here, but Sky doesn't determine when threads get closed. Again, no one has to read or participate if they don't want to.

[drunksunflower]

I am glad discussion has been allowed.

I just wish people would read posts a little more carefully and realise that THEIR experiences are not being attacked AT ALL.

Rather, an individual case has been considered and people have views on that ... not on p/philes in general.

I am often one for posting before I think, but I do not think I am the only one, and some seem to post before they even read.

[Rapunzel]

As a moderator, I have been asked by more than one member to do something with this thread. I want to acknowledge that request, but unfortunately I have to recuse myself from this issue because I feel it too personally. I am sorry about that.

Just as myself, I want to express my support for LostSon. I respect you a great deal for your honesty, courage, and especially for the determination you have to overcome the effects that abuse have had on you, and not hurt anyone else. Many times I have heard the statistic that about 30% of those abused as children go on to become abusers later in life. That means that 70% of those who were abused do not become abusers. You are one of those 70%. I wish that we had statistics on how many of the 70% have thoughts about abusing someone else. I bet it would be pretty near all of them. I can only speak for myself. I was abused, and I have had thoughts, and I was horrified at those thoughts, and I know that I would never act on them. I wonder how many are self-aware enough to acknowledge the thoughts that they have had?

My e-mail is in my profile. You are welcome to write, and I promise to get back to you, although my life is about 100% chaos at the moment, so I can't promise when.

I think that a lot of things have been said in this thread that make a lot of sense. I am sorry that this is so difficult for so many, on both sides of the issue.

I'd like to tell you more about why this is such an emotionally involved subject for me, but that would probably take all night, and would risk hijacking the thread, so I'll save it. I will post some of it to my thread in Grief and Loss about my brother.

All the best wishes for peace and healing,
Rap

[PasDeDeux]

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Maven said:
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PasDeDeux said:
Dr John, what is taking you so long Sky wants this thread closed

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I'm not saying anything against Sky here, but Sky doesn't determine when threads get closed. Again, no one has to read or participate if they don't want to.

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I am not saying anything against anyone....But I have seen Sky and Sept ask for threads to be closed and he does or a mod does. So I think this will be closed..I could be wrong

[caramelcreme]

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jinnyann said:
well that put me in my place then.
like i said, the moderators and administrators had a hard time over this.

we all feel for him for being abused, he needs help and i hope he gets it.

for gods sake you cant please everyone. i for one feel bloody awful now all this happened. but i amongst other find it hard to trust people and at the end of the day heCOULD have been a risk

jin

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he might have been a risk - there's no real way to know - to me it's all crystal ball gazing. i hadn't seen any posts that were offensive but i don't read every post and i'm not vulnerable in that respect. it's happened, he's been banned so i guess we just say our piece and move on. there's no point arguing or blaming.

i do have to reiterate that i (and probably a lot of people) have unhealthy urges that could hurt other people physically and mentally but i battle them and usually win

[Rapunzel]

Please, everyone, let's be respectful. This has been an important discussion. If it has to be closed it will be because too many people, not only on one side of the issue, are not able to either express their views with respect, or leave it alone.

Someone asked why LostSon and his wife are still here. I think that I can answer that much. LostSon did not violate any community guidelines. A decision was made by the owner of this site, after considering the impact on the community and the perspectives of members, moderators, and administrators. There is no way that all of us will ever agree on this, either way. But LostSon did nothing wrong here and is not being punished. As far as I know (and hope), we all wish that he will be able to find support and healing somewhere. There are members here who want to offer him support. For that reason, he has been allowed to stay and say his goodbyes and exchange information with the friends that he has made.

Rapunzel

[PasDeDeux]

What a beautiful and well thought out post. I must say I agree with you in that we are not our thoughts. I am glad you posted this gives me much to think about. I feel for this poster.

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Rapunzel said:
As a moderator, I have been asked by more than one member to do something with this thread. I want to acknowledge that request, but unfortunately I have to recuse myself from this issue because I feel it too personally. I am sorry about that.

Just as myself, I want to express my support for LostSon. I respect you a great deal for your honesty, courage, and especially for the determination you have to overcome the effects that abuse have had on you, and not hurt anyone else. Many times I have heard the statistic that about 30% of those abused as children go on to become abusers later in life. That means that 70% of those who were abused do not become abusers. You are one of those 70%. I wish that we had statistics on how many of the 70% have thoughts about abusing someone else. I bet it would be pretty near all of them. I can only speak for myself. I was abused, and I have had thoughts, and I was horrified at those thoughts, and I know that I would never act on them. I wonder how many are self-aware enough to acknowledge the thoughts that they have had?

My e-mail is in my profile. You are welcome to write, and I promise to get back to you, although my life is about 100% chaos at the moment, so I can't promise when.

I think that a lot of things have been said in this thread that make a lot of sense. I am sorry that this is so difficult for so many, on both sides of the issue.

I'd like to tell you more about why this is such an emotionally involved subject for me, but that would probably take all night, and would risk hijacking the thread, so I'll save it. I will post some of it to my thread in Grief and Loss about my brother.

All the best wishes for peace and healing,
Rap

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[PasDeDeux]

I am worried now he won't get help and now will abuse some kid. Did anyone think of that. OMG, I AM FREALING OUT NOW

[drunksunflower]

Hopefully some of the friends he has made here will be able to support him PDD

[Rhapsody]

OK OK - I got One Question............................. on all this:

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DocJohn said:
a new guideline has been agreed-upon:

...., and others that have abused another individual physically, emotionally or sexually (whether imagined, real, acted-upon or not, and/or convicted), are not welcomed here because our focus is on support for victims of such abuse.

The two are not compatible with one another.

DocJohn

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Does this go for members that emotionally wound another PC Member with their attacking words?...... for once again a new member has been wronged by another before they even got the chance to love.

* * * * * * * * * *

[sparkling]

Good question. I hope so but I really doubt it. Life is not fair.

Sorry. Just frustrated with the whole situation.

[drunksunflower]

[InACorner]

I am very ashamed of all of you. I love everyone here, and yet you scrambling like wild dogs to hurt each other. Why? Why is it neccessary to attack each other just to prove a point? Is it neccessary? You all sit here trying to prove a point...a point that will never be made...get over it. It is FACT that the issue is no longer the issue. The FACT is that the issue is now who said what to whom and how YOU will backfire with a smart remark that will have everyones heads turning. You all look like idiots, hitting each other with words. I must say....i expected alot better from mature people who have matured because of the pain in your lives. My heart goes out to you all but i have to say this. I am against both sides on this one. I have kept quiet and watched you send each other to the slaughter house. I must say something now. What you say on here will affect those who dont read this thread. You know why? Its like abuse in the home. We all carry it outside, it festers and festers like bad infections so we get out to breathe fresh air, but we carry its linger...Its already affecting the threads elsewhere...and your all to wrapped up in killing each other to see that. I am going to say one very last thing...and kick me out if you dont like it

You all right now are just plain rude and mean in my opinion. You are taking away the one good thing in my life. A SUPPORTIVE WEBSITE WHERE PEOPLE LIKE EACH OTHER IM STARTING TO SEE THE BLACKNESS NOW. See, now lets see what terrible things you have to say about me. Maybe if you focus your hatred on me ...it will all go away.
Take Care and love yourselves and others, love, Inny

[drunksunflower]

Maybe use your ignore button next time ... you do not have to witness a conversation if you don't want to.

[sparkling]

I'm not going to say anything terrible to you. I just can't stand when someone is unwanted, alienated and treated as if they were less than human beings. Know the feeling all too well and the pain it's causing to the person. Especially when the person didn't do anything to deserve it.

[InACorner]

DrunkSunFlower

Do you realize YOU were the one to start the arugementation? Its easy for you to push the ignore button yes, but when people who are in pain come to you so distraught not in this thread...but in pms or in other threads...do you put the ignore button on them? I hope not, I never put the ignore button on you. I wont and i still will be here you need me, pm me anytime and I will support you even though i am not happy how this is leaking all leaking out and you cast me aside with the comment...push the ignore button.

oh and just wondering...if YOU didnt agree with it to begin with..why make a fuss

YOU should have pressed the ignore button

[drunksunflower]

Because I like discussion and conversation.

I have nothing to say to you and believe me, I would like to say a LOT.

Don't blame ME - there were plenty of people who agree with what I was saying.

Please get some respect and manners towards others.

You know I'm not saying this is revelant in on this occassion but I know from previous experience that there is actually a site that highlights other sites and "put" people into them to start flamewars.

I was shocked when I found this out. Now I am very careful about situations where intense situations arise.

Just a thought!

Have a good day ya all.

[caramelcreme]

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PasDeDeux said:
I am worried now he won't get help and now will abuse some kid. Did anyone think of that. OMG, I AM FREALING OUT NOW

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i am concerned for his welfare too - he has the support of his wife and i'm sure that docjohn has considered these possibilities.

i want to wish lostson all the best. i don't agree with the banning but i don't want to be part of an argument so i will just repeat that i find it strange to ban someone who has not done anything wrong or hurt anyone, but it's up to the administrators of the forum to make those decisions and i'll live by their decision.

[Juliana]

I just want to add that I am incredibly fortunate that I have never been the victim of sexual abuse nor have I had disturbing sexual urges. So, I am reading all of this objectively. I can only imagine how painful and hellish both of those things would be. I feel for everyone who has been hurt. I wish everyone all the best. I hope all who have been traumatized and victimized will be able to find inner peace and a feeling of safety. I hope that everyone finds the help and healing they need and I hope the cycle of abuse ends. It is truly heart-wrenching to see the pain that abusers inflict on children and how that pain manifests itself (in various ways) throughout the lives of their victims.

[sabby]

"Lets all agree.......................to disagree"

That is the thought that comes to my mind as I read this thread. Everyone here has their own experiences, thoughts, feelings, ideas to bring to the table. No two are exactly the same. Some are similar, I give you that, on both sides of the equation. But, life is not an equation. It is not perfect as numbers are. In this respect, there will never be a 2 +2=4. There will never be a complete consensus regarding this situation and many many others that will surface in the future.

Emotions run high, but I am appalled at the insensitivity towards others that some folks are showing here.

This is a learning experience. Take what we have learned here over the past few days and think about it. What I have learned is that many folks are ruled by their emotions. The more emotional the get, the more they scream and holler to be heard above the next one.

Everyone one deserves to have their feelings, thoughts and emotions validated. But, we don't all deserve to be disrespected and stomped on because we think one way or another. I feel for each side of this troublesome issue. There are good points and bad in both. Will there ever be a straightforward answer? Of course not. We are human and as such will think and feel differently from the next person.

"Lets agree...........to disagree" and leave it at that. Let's show one another the respect that each one of us deserves. Please do what you have to do to feel safe. Feeling safe does not mean bashing one another in order to get your point across.

Regardless of what each of you has in your past to bring to the table, remember that this forum is about SUPPORT, first and foremost. Support does not always come in the ways that we feel we should receive it or how we feel we deserve it.

As someone said in an earlier post (and I'm sorry, at this point I don't remember who it was) Let's take a step back, take some deep breaths and try to relax a bit. Let us learn from this experience and move on. Let us regain our footing and begin the healing process.

To everyone here....I feel your pain, on both sides of the issue. I will not judge a single one of you either way. My prayers are for all of you...in hopes of finding a safe place in your heart and some peace in your souls.

xoxoxox
J

..sometimes decisions can't be judged as right or wrong...they just have to be........i think all of us as intelligent human beings know that doc john made the decision he had to make........this has been an interesting discussion and as others have said.....lets look at it as a learning experience.........those of us who have wished to make our views known i think have done so quite adequately.....now can we get back to the business at hand.....get back to being the supportive community that we truly are and didn't all this really show that when it comes right down to it?!.....i have said this before and i think its time to say it again.....let there be peace and let it begin with me..........will others join me please?

[DocJohn]

People often complain and wonder why we close a thread. This is a perfect example of why. I go to sleep, wake up the next morning to this, where half of the new posts are people attacking each other and telling one another what they should do if they don't like things. We close threads when people start attacking each other, go off-topic, or feel like it's a good time to get up on their soap box to let everyone know what *their* opinion is on this and a dozen related issues.

Thank you. Thank you all for sharing your opinions, and thank you for those of you who actually stayed on-topic with the discussion. Thank you for those who understand our decision and how difficult it was, and thank you for those who didn't, who disagree, and took the time to let us know. I appreciate that, I really do.

Self-disclosure is difficult to do well sometimes, especially when one's "secret" is so very big. We only know a stranger by what they label themselves, and lostson came here and self-disclosed himself with a very big and very negative label in his very first post. Unfortunately, that's almost *always* to get a reaction from others, and that reaction may be something like this. It's sad, but often true, that we can't just walk into a room and say, "Hey, my name is Jim and I've had schizophrenia for the past 10 years" and expect others to instantly understand and accept us for who we are.

That's probably because if you use a label, and people don't know *you*, then they're only going to know you by the label you've used. Jim has schizophrenia, but I know nothing else about Jim, so I put everything I think I know (some of which may be true, some of which may not be) about schizophrenia onto Jim.

Is it fair? Maybe, maybe not. But it's human, it's what most of us do, and what's done here is what's done.

And as much as I hate to do it, I have to close this thread. I don't want to, but some have made it clear they're more interested in hurting others with their comments than in discussing this issue.

DocJohn