[AlteredState01]

To those who believe that they are, somehow, better than others, ought to take a good look at themselves in the mirror!

Not one soul can ever truly know to what extent any of their actions (even the tiniest of lies) has actually caused by what I will call "the ripple effect."

We are ALL human beings and we are ALL entitled to empathy, sympathy and forgiveness.

I cannot imagine that ANY ONE OF US who claims to have a mental illnes can say that we have not caused devastation to other peoples' lives. We are all here because of pain we cause, either to ourselves and to OTHERS!!!

If you are one of these people who has never hurt another, then please, cast that first stone!!

As we all know, behaviours are passed down from father to son; mother to daughter; brother to sister; sister to sister; child to child; neighbour to neighbour. You get the picture, here.

I am so tired of being judged by this world for iniquities that can be found in every single person that lives on the face of the earth, no matter how repugnant.

As far as I know, there has only been one PERFECT human being on this planet - EVER. And if this is not your belief, fine, because it only means that we are all inadequate to live if we truly knew the effects of every decision we have ever made in our entire life.

Altered State

[__zh]

amen. this needs repeating as this community continues to grow in unprecedented ways. thank you for putting your thoughts together on this for everyone.

[drunksunflower]

What happened to provoke this?

[InACorner]

Oh dear...I hope i am not to self absorbed but i hope my post My perception alittle lower on this forum didnt cause you to feel this wayy

i completely agree with you and (((((((hugs to you )))))))) for saying it..i just hope thats not what you got from my post...if it involves that at all

i am sorry if i am wrong and just being paranoid and self absorbed

love, Inny

thanks, alteredstate........pat

[SeptemberMorn]

AS... some of us are simply triggered. When one has been a victim, anything that remotely resembles our abuse is triggering. The trigger causes panic, feeling of losing control, we feel in danger once again whether we are being realistic about it or not. When we are triggered, we're reliving our past abuse. It's almost impossible to tell reality from a memory, one person from another.

This site is supposed to be safe, yet some of us aren't feeling that safety at all.

I know that feelings are not facts, but when triggered, it's almost impossible to overcome the feelings.

Some of us are anything but on a high horse. We feel like we're under the horses hooves.

Just hoping that you can see "the other side" for just a little bit, Hon. I don't mean to argue with you, ok?

While, yes I agree that no one is without some fault-- there are degrees, the way I see it. I'm not sure what you are referring to but here's my stand on things.....

Sure we have all hurt someone in our lives-- but knowingly hurting a child or an animal is something I don't feel empathy or sympathy towards an abuser. Hurting adults is one thing but being an adult and hurting a child or animal--is a whole different story.(IMO)

And as far as forgiveness-- in such a case, I can only hope that the abuser will have to answer to a higher power when the time comes. I am not able to forgive such loathsome behavior.

Yes, like you say, behaviors are passed down in various ways-- but the bad behaviors, once we are adults, need to be stopped and or corrected in order to maintain a healthy life for oneself and for others around them.-- I like to think of it as "advancing" and stopping what could be/or was a cycle.

mandy

[SweetSunshine]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
SeptemberMorn said:
AS... some of us are simply triggered. When one has been a victim, anything that remotely resembles our abuse is triggering. The trigger causes panic, feeling of losing control, we feel in danger once again whether we are being realistic about it or not. When we are triggered, we're reliving our past abuse. It's almost impossible to tell reality from a memory, one person from another.

This site is supposed to be safe, yet some of us aren't feeling that safety at all.

I know that feelings are not facts, but when triggered, it's almost impossible to overcome the feelings.

Some of us are anything but on a high horse. We feel like we're under the horses hooves.

Just hoping that you can see "the other side" for just a little bit, Hon. I don't mean to argue with you, ok?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Thank you Tomi.. and Joe. thank you both for standing up for all of us.

[AlteredState01]

Point well made, SM, however, I find it difficult to feel completely safe when I read any post - not just the ones that are marked as possible triggers, because I can never really know what will set me off or when.

I truly understand that most, if not all of us, feel as though "we are under the horse's hooves," as you so aptly put it.

But I also realize that I am choosing to read the posts I do and must accept, at least, some responsibility for what may occur within my own psyche when doing so.

Believe me, I do see the "other side," much, much more than you may realize, but I absolutely refuse to stop trying to not to judge others, especially because of an illness that is sometimes, beyond one's control. And I refuse to condemn those that have illnesses that are deemed repugnant, for I believe that my illness presents much repulsion, not only to myself but to others as well.

This message was intended to remind us all that we are in the same boat - whether we are ill or not. It was not intended to deride anyone.

The whole world is suffering and we are all suffering together!

Altered State

[AlteredState01]

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I can only hope that the abuser will have to answer to a higher power when the time comes. I am not able to forgive such loathsome behavior.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I believe we all will, including those completely unwilling to forgive (in a forever sense), for forgiveness does not in any way exonerate one from responsibility of their behaviours. No. Not in anyway! Please understand, people who are honesty seeking healing will eventually reach a state of forgiveness. We will never, ever forget, nor will we be able to completely rid ourselves of the rage and pain we feel. But to try to forgive one's abuser releases the abused from the captivity an abuser has put them under.

I sincerely hope that someday, we will all be able to forgive those who have hurt us deeply, so we can finally live with peace in our hearts and become the individual we all desire (and deserve) to be!

Altered State

[Fuzzybear]

This is a good thread, thanks to everyone who contributed their opinions and thanks AS for starting the thread and for sharing your thoughts

[SeptemberMorn]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
AlteredState01 said:
But to try to forgive one's abuser releases the abused from the captivity an abuser has put them under.
Altered State

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Absolutely! But I just wonder at the degree of forgiveness that we need to reach in order to

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AlteredState01 said:
We will never, ever forget, nor will we be able to completely rid ourselves of the rage and pain we feel.
Altered State

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

THAT, exactly, is what I, personally, have been dealing with. Not only me, but many others here. Is there a defining line between forgiveness and... what would it be, "forgetfulness"? When dealing with a wrong done to me and my daughter many years ago, I was told by a minister, that to forgive is one thing, but it's not necessary to forget. To remember, is to keep ourselves out of harm's way.

Some of us would give anything to be able to truly forget but it's not within our power to do so. I'm not too sure that it would be wise from the stand point of the many lessons learned in our recovery. MY lessons have been invaluable to me in many ways.

Yes, this person has a perfect right to seek out and use whatever help/support/healing he may find. I have absolutely no quarrel with that... BUT not at the expense of so many others that didn't take the fork in the road that HE took.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{AS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

altered state i am one of the guilty ones that judged. i do not think i am better than anyone else quite the opposite in fact.

i wish him well and hope he finds peace in his life, i also feel bad.but so many people were threatened. please do not judge me by saying i'm on my high horse. i am not. just confused and hurt and betrayedmyself. and i hope you dont take offence, but i need my say too.

i would never hurt anyone on purpose, and i may never be able to forgive my abuser. does that make me a badperson? these things are never easy

jinny xoxox

[AlteredState01]

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these things are never easy

jinny xoxox

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

No they never are. I applaud DocJohn's decision and expected it to be as such. I am actually surprised that this issue had never been confronted before considering how long PC has been around.

Please do not think that I did not judge this person, because I did. I am no less guilty than anyone else here.

I believe everything that was said here was good. I take no offense at anyone's response, for it was not directed at any one individual anyway.

We are all at different levels in our search for healing (which I believe includes forgiveness, whether it is recognized as such or not) and I hope that we can all recover quickly from this jaw-dropping, surreal-like episode.

I guess it is no secret that I am speaking of the admitted pedophile that posted here, but I thought I would say it for those who may not know what prompted all of this.

I must admit, I never even thought of this ever happening. It has shaken me to the core. Maybe that is why my response was so harsh. I just cannot allow myself to go back to that place, and expressing my belief in acceptance and forgiveness so fervently was a protection for me. This is one belief system I cannot let go of, for it keeps me from destroying myself.

Altered State

((((((as)))))))

take care, pm me anytime if you like jinny xx

[drunksunflower]

Altered State you are very cool

[Fuzzybear]

[allthegirls6]

At the end of the day every one has a valid opinion. Those who felt threatened are as sure of how they feel as those who did not feel threatened. Surely we all have a voice.

IMO i would prefer not to be around a person who would thinks they could be an abuser (even if they are not acting on it). It was abuse that got me here and i just dont want to be around people who have an inclination towards that.

[(JD)]

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cannot imagine that ANY ONE OF US who claims to have a mental illnes can say that we have not caused devastation to other peoples' lives.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> ..from original posting...

I would like to clarify my thinking about this one particular statement, though... because mental illness does not have to cause anyone devastation. We are not responsible for how others respond or react or internalize "our" disorder(s.) They are responsible for managing their own reactions. I wouldn't want anyone to take on any guilt that just plain isn't theirs, especially someone dealing with mental unwellness. I don't like the idea of blame anyway, that insinuates it was purposeful.

I don't know anyone who sits down and plans, taking a leave of their mental unwellness, on how to devastate someone's life. You know? We wouldn't accuse someone with CF, of ruining family lives, would we? No, we look at that properly: it just is. I hope others can also view their unwellness this way: it just is.



I agree, only One is perfect.

[drunksunflower]

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[b]_Sky said:[/[b]

because mental illness does not have to cause anyone devastation. We are not responsible for how others respond or react or internalize "our" disorder(s.) They are responsible for managing their own reactions. I wouldn't want anyone to take on any guilt that just plain isn't theirs, especially someone dealing with mental unwellness. I don't like the idea of blame anyway, that insinuates it was purposeful.

I don't know anyone who sits down and plans, taking a leave of their mental unwellness, on how to devastate someone's life.


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I ruined a relationship a few months ago because I was a complete and utter bish. Partly cos I was such a mess due to the d-word. I was pretty much impossible for my boy to deal with. So no, I didn't mean to hurt him (except when I was angry with him for whatever he was asking me to do about the situation - then I know I said things I never should have).

But I take responsibility for my actions and his reactions (i caused him a lot of worry and hurt) were completely valid. I might not term it devastation, but he tried so hard with me on two separate occasions (and yes, I broke up his relationship the first time, the second time i broke up our relationship).

I don't entirely blame my mental state but i sure as hell wouldn't have caused anyone that much stress and hurt if i was in a happy stable sort of mindstate.

okay i think i've gone off topic but people who are in relationships often cause their partners a lot of grief because of their 'mental illness'. it's just the way it is.

if i have misinterpreted this i am sorry.

[nothemama8]

good thread, IMHO you don't have to have mental dx too hurt others

[Bethsway]

I agree that no one is perfect...that we all are guilty of hurting someone in someway...maybe without even realizing it...but those who were deeply deeply hurt...I am sure are not riding on a high horse...they are striving to get back up on the horse just so they can have a nice ride...not to look down at anybody!

[AlteredState01]

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but people who are in relationships often cause their partners a lot of grief because of their 'mental illness'. it's just the way it is.

if i have misinterpreted this i am sorry.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

You did not misinterpret it, drunkensunflower. And I am so glad you posted this. It feels good to know that some do understand what I am trying to say, regardless of the words I use, because I can never seem to find the most politically correct terminology to use - EVER!!! So thanks...I kinda needed that one.

Altered State

[LMo]

I'll second that. Some of us, even the most balanced and grounded, DO suffer devastation caused by other people's mental illnesses. Families can get their lives turned upside down when those with mental illness do not take responsibility for their behavior and treatment. No, it's not intentional but I agree that we are not always in control of the external events that devastate us.