[migillicuty]

I'm a 31 year old male and I am dealing with what I am thinking is some kind of mental disorder. It must be a mental disorder! Or am I the only one who seems to see it? In my entire life I have never held down a full time 40 hour/week job longer than 3 months. For some reason I just feel like I'm in some sort of prison converting my entire days life into labor hours. I feel like society has been completely fooled into accepting this typical way of living as, "the grown up and responsible thing to do." I consider myself a financially responsible person and a hard worker. I can handle doing a part time job followed by my own at home Etsy and Ebay business selling things I make. I did this for a year successfully but ended up deciding my official part time job wasn't paying enough and I needed to get a full time job with benefits. So I got a full time job that actually used my bachelors degree making artificial heart valves. On my first day of work my body had some sort of anxiety attack and I passed out right in front of my boss on to a ladies desk. On day 3 I quit. It was a living hell! My wife is 31 years old too and we still have no kids (married 6 years.) I feel like I'm the biggest loser in the world. I hate this feeling of being owned by an employer that pays me a tiny portion out of what I generate for the company. I hate how society has created all sorts of insurances that people "have to have" which only means more employment slavery. (especially with health insurance now. If you exist you have to pay) I wish so bad somehow I could work a part time morning shift and come home to my wife and kids that I get to spend the rest of the day with and the money I made was good enough to sustain our little family and home. It blows me away that there is such a thing now as "day care benefits." To think that society is so demanding that ow others have to be taken from the home and need day care benefits so someone else can raise her children! Life is just too much for me right now. Its reaching the point of pointless! We all just convert our lives into labor hours so we can fund the lifestyle of converting our lives into labor hours. The never ending pointless lifestyle of slavery to money. PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME THEY SEE IT LIKE THIS TOO! PLEASE TALK TO ME!

[Onward2wards]

I currently have a job I am dissatisfied with, working nights with very few days off. I am not using my bachelor's degree skills in any capacity. I have no life anymore (except when I occasionally get insomnia) and I absolutely hate it. I feel your pain.

The next time some wit says "People are so lazy these days" (or variants thereof), I am going to have to leave the area or be physically restrained.

[bluekoi]

migillicuty, Welcome to Psych Central!

40 hours - the work week grind.

We have an Anxiety, Panic and Phobias forum and a Work and Careers forum which you might find helpful.

Not every person is designed to flourish or even survive while working 40 hour weeks. Some people cannot flourish or survive unless they are working 80 hours a week. There is a very false cliche that is repeated like it actually means something "if I can do it, so can you". This is a line of crap that is fed to society and most people eat it up like pudding on a spoon. We are all unique....some people only need 5 hours sleep and wake feeling refreshed and good. Others need at least 10. Just imagine what those longer sleepers could accomplish if they required less sleep. But the people who get 5 hours and feel fine think the ones who need 10 are lying and lazy which is stigma and false.

We have kids and pay someone else to raise them. Very few families have the privilege of actually raising their own children. And nobody talks about any of this and just keeps putting pressure on the populace to measure up to our neighbors. It makes no sense. (((Hugs)))

(((Migilitycuty)))

I think the most important thing is that you and your wife agree about the hours you both work and about the childcare for any children you have together - what anyone else thinks is irrelevant. We are all different, I know couples who both work part-time and split childcare between them, they're getting by.

I hope you can find a way to get the work/life balance you both need.

[MickeyCheeky]

I'm really sorry.. I can understand what you're going through

Originally Posted by migillicuty

I'm a 31 year old male and I am dealing with what I am thinking is some kind of mental disorder. It must be a mental disorder! Or am I the only one who seems to see it? In my entire life I have never held down a full time 40 hour/week job longer than 3 months. For some reason I just feel like I'm in some sort of prison converting my entire days life into labor hours.

I feel the same. I held off on the job for as long as I could and went to work full time at 30. At first I kept getting laid off so I would have 3 months or more at a time laid off, but at 35 I got a full time job and I have LITERALLY been working 10 hours daily (with commute) since.

I get a lousy 2 weeks vacation every year and that works out to about 1 day per month personal. That is too much. I happen to work for the criminal justice system and often I think about how jail wouldn't really be that bad.

The thing is there is no freedom. If I do have a day off I can just start a project before I have to break off and prepare to go back to work.

I feel even worse because I have a job that will allow me to get a pension. So though I know I want to stop and do something else and I just need like 6 months to catch up on my life which has been on the back burner for 10 years... I can't quit because I will lose my pension. Which, I cannot collect for at least 10 more years. But I have vowed that I will do at the earliest opportunity no matter what.

There are no personal days either. Most of them are taken up with errands that have to be done. Vet visits, home maintenance.

I feel like I need 6 months just to relax and literally catch up on every stupid thing that has been put on the back burner for years. But that will NEVER happen.

[Gojamadar]

Originally Posted by migillicuty

I'm a 31 year old male and I am dealing with what I am thinking is some kind of mental disorder. It must be a mental disorder! Or am I the only one who seems to see it? In my entire life I have never held down a full time 40 hour/week job longer than 3 months. For some reason I just feel like I'm in some sort of prison converting my entire days life into labor hours. I feel like society has been completely fooled into accepting this typical way of living as, "the grown up and responsible thing to do." I consider myself a financially responsible person and a hard worker. I can handle doing a part time job followed by my own at home Etsy and Ebay business selling things I make. I did this for a year successfully but ended up deciding my official part time job wasn't paying enough and I needed to get a full time job with benefits. So I got a full time job that actually used my bachelors degree making artificial heart valves. On my first day of work my body had some sort of anxiety attack and I passed out right in front of my boss on to a ladies desk. On day 3 I quit. It was a living hell! My wife is 31 years old too and we still have no kids (married 6 years.) I feel like I'm the biggest loser in the world. I hate this feeling of being owned by an employer that pays me a tiny portion out of what I generate for the company. I hate how society has created all sorts of insurances that people "have to have" which only means more employment slavery. (especially with health insurance now. If you exist you have to pay) I wish so bad somehow I could work a part time morning shift and come home to my wife and kids that I get to spend the rest of the day with and the money I made was good enough to sustain our little family and home. It blows me away that there is such a thing now as "day care benefits." To think that society is so demanding that ow others have to be taken from the home and need day care benefits so someone else can raise her children! Life is just too much for me right now. Its reaching the point of pointless! We all just convert our lives into labor hours so we can fund the lifestyle of converting our lives into labor hours. The never ending pointless lifestyle of slavery to money. PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME THEY SEE IT LIKE THIS TOO! PLEASE TALK TO ME!

Hi,
I feel sorry for you. It is a fact of life that we have to earn a living! It has never been any different. It's easier for people with talent and good business sense to get on. For those of us without, we have to make the best of the opportunities. Think of all those who can't find a job, either because there are no jobs or they are not qualified or are disabled to do one.

I got a full time job that actually used my bachelors degree making artificial heart valves. On my first day of work my body had some sort of anxiety attack and I passed out right in front of my boss on to a ladies desk

There is also the attitude! If I were you, I would have thought I was helping people to live, therfore I'm doing a useful job while I'm getting paid for it.

So you want a family? Childrean need a safe home environment, love and and sacrifice. Like your own parents did for you.
It is true that in this capitalist age some people are exploited, however many people enjoy doing a regular job and glad to help others, their community and their country to prosper.
Apart from the above, the 40 hour week still leaves you 8 hours sleep, 8 hours leisure time and two full days to do what you really enjoy doing. Ah and money to spend on some luxuries! And if you're lucky a peaceful carefree retirement!

[fishin fool]

I worked hard and held down a full time job from the time I was 17 until I was 50
until my MI issues finally got the best of me.
Having worked all those years, I can totally understand the feeling of being in prison.
I think it goes against our nature to work a 40 hour week and be locked up inside all
the time rotting away. Humans were never meant to live that way.

[eyesclosed]

You are institutionalized u get it it starts with kindergarten the next 12 years you have a routine deadlines rules and your identity and fed lies to make you believe you live in the greatest country ever you have a choice you only make as much as you owe work is a gift but you have to be able to see what you accomplished and feel good about everything else is Vanity there is nothing has not been done already.

Originally Posted by eyesclosed

You are institutionalized u get it it starts with kindergarten the next 12 years you have a routine deadlines rules and your identity and fed lies to make you believe you live in the greatest country ever you have a choice you only make as much as you owe work is a gift but you have to be able to see what you accomplished and feel good about everything else is Vanity there is nothing has not been done already.

Well I do feel like we are institutionalized but it comes from the media and the images we see on tv. The uber happy people who work all day on tv etc. Also there is no education at all as to starting your own business. I always wanted to do that (and I still might) but it is extremely hard to do that when you don't know what you are doing. I think the truth is that the rich people of the world have that knowledge and that is why they are rich and happy. And they contribute to this idea that you should go to work for someone else.

For instance I wanted to rent out properties... and I got the job to do that(to get money)...but it is almost impossible to do that AND work. If there is a problem at a rental property I am at work and can't just leave to fix problems. Never mind all the time I have to take off to make the sale go through.

Just once I tried to purchase a foreclosure and work and it was a nightmare. They were demanding time from me every 10 minutes. In the end the sale feel through and I was not my workplaces' favorite person.

I also hate that there is so much wasted time at work. I could get my job done in about 6 hours... but for some reason I have to stay 8.

[LadyShadow]

I know I worked for a lot of years before my MI got the best of me. I know its too much. Its too much for me too. I am so afraid of going back to a 40 hour work week for fear of a delusional manic attack (I have Bipolar I) and ending up in the hospital and losing EVERYTHING. It's the worst feeling in the world.

Please hang in there, and try and come here more often and post your little heart out and vent all you need.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by migillicuty

...reaching the point of pointless! We all just convert our lives into labor hours so we can fund the lifestyle [that demands] converting our lives into labor hours...

Yes, many people certainly do live that way. Review your own definition of "comfortably" and then decide whether you can live comfortably while working part-time along with your at-home stuff. The issue here is not that we are forced into something but that we are easily drawn away from something mis-perceived as being less.

[lizardlady]

I suspect my answer is going to make some people unhappy with me....

Folks, we all have to support ourselves in some way. For most that's a full time job working for someone else. For some it is a combination of part-time jobs. My suggestion is to sort out what works for you in your situation. Reality is that the world is not going to provide you with food, shelter and medical care for free.

For those who think working for themselves is the solution be aware that you can end up working w-a-y more than 40 hours a week if self-employed. I was self-employed most of my adult life. I owned a stable and taught people to ride, trained horses, boarded... you name it I probably did it. I worked 7 days a week/365. The horses didn't care if I was sick. They wanted to eat. The horses didn't care it was a holiday. They wanted to eat. The nature of the business is that most of the money I earned went right back out for feed, farrier, vet, etc. I ended up working a second job at night in order to support myself. My "life" was work with the horses during the day. Come in grab a shower and dinner before heading to the night job. Work 6-10 hours there. Come home, fall into bed and do it all over again the next day. And the next, and the next.... Why did I do it? I loved what I did during the day. It filled me up inside. The night job did nothing to fulfill me, but it kept food on the table and a roof over my head.

When I was a teen I thought that in the ideal world we would all do work that satisfied us and provided what we needed materially. Heck, I still wish the world functioned that way but it doesn't.

My suggestion is to wort out what your passion is in life. IS there a way you can fulfill that passion through a job? If not, what about finding a job that you don't at least hate and fill your passion outside work. There are evening hours and weekends for that.

Originally Posted by lizardlady

I suspect my answer is going to make some people unhappy with me....

You are correct. Where ever I go, whatever I do, there always seems to be a super naysayer. Obviously picking self employment has to be a smart choice. Your choice was a poor one. I often find people who pursue self employment and fail went into it with little planning or consideration and then try to bootstrap failure on the rest of the world. Another reason people don't do it. But there are many people who have made it work. I am often surprised.

I don't think anyone here is "lazy" or expects the world to provide for them. The fact is that in most European nations the expectations for work are much less. And vacation is much more. My employment is a ton of "down" time. 2 hours in the morning when hardly anything happens and 2 hours at night where nothing happens. Not sure why I have to stay and have face time.

Another suggestion for those who hate the drudgery... I once did temp work. I should have stayed with it. It would be like 8 or 12 weeks at a job, then a break then 8 or 12 weeks at a different job. It paid decently well and I got variety. I also could pick the jobs. The temp agencies LOVE dependable people.

I don't understand how anyone gets anything out of evening hours and weekends. Every evening I have chores that take up most of the time. (i get home at 7 if I am lucky and go to bed at 10) and weekend are pretty much the same... groceries; cleaning; wash; and various and sundry things I couldn't get done during the week. There is no real time to pursue anything on the weekends.. they are just there so I can prepare for the next work week.

Even working in something you have a passion in, for someone else, leads to Managers and management, interfering with your passion. I have a good job that I am passionate about but i often get pulled off due to managers who want statistical reports and management seeing my artistic job like a widget, when it just isn't.

[Cyllya]

PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME THEY SEE IT LIKE THIS TOO!

I'm with you. I also have practical trouble handling it (I think I'm managing better than you, but maybe only through desperation), but I see the absurdity either way.

I managed school because it was fewer hours, more "vacation" days, you didn't always have to do much while you were there. Still, I was really starting to burn out at the end of high school; I'm not sure I could have kept it up many more years. (Granted, school life has other major downsides compared to work life, the most obvious being that you don't get paid.)

To make it worse, it seems part-time jobs usually have proportionately less compensation than full-time jobs (less pay per hour, less "benefits," probably crappier treatment from your employer). Even if you could manage with fewer hours, a lot of employers won't allow it.

Obviously, work needs to happen to keep society running (for now, at least) but we could function on less work per person. It's pretty stupid that we have one portion of the population forced to work 40+ hours per week while another portion of the population is in poverty because they can't find a job. Then there's workfare, and the government employees that administer workfare.

It was a lot worse in earlier parts of the industrial revolution. (60+ hours a week was common, some activists wanting eight hours per day were killed by police or arrested and executed.)

Originally Posted by Gojamadar

Hi,
I feel sorry for you. It is a fact of life that we have to earn a living! It has never been any different. It's easier for people with talent and good business sense to get on. For those of us without, we have to make the best of the opportunities. Think of all those who can't find a job, either because there are no jobs or they are not qualified or are disabled to do one.

There is also the attitude! If I were you, I would have thought I was helping people to live, therfore I'm doing a useful job while I'm getting paid for it.

So you want a family? Childrean need a safe home environment, love and and sacrifice. Like your own parents did for you.
It is true that in this capitalist age some people are exploited, however many people enjoy doing a regular job and glad to help others, their community and their country to prosper.
Apart from the above, the 40 hour week still leaves you 8 hours sleep, 8 hours leisure time and two full days to do what you really enjoy doing. Ah and money to spend on some luxuries! And if you're lucky a peaceful carefree retirement!

Great illustration for part of the source of this problem. The moral judgment. Anyone who acknowledges the stupidity of this situation is lectured like they're selfish, lazy, and/or just too stupid to understand that money is valuable.

Also, bad math. Aside from the "two full days to do what you really enjoy doing" (not really), the other five days of the week are apparently something like
8 hours of paid work
2+ hours of unpaid job-related work (commuting, etc)
8 hours leisure
1+ hour of unpaid household duties
8 hours sleep (assuming you instantly sleep when you lay down)
= 27+ hours per day

It's not true that it's never been different. Apparently, many hunter-gatherer cultures do not have a word for "work" in the unpleasant sense.

We have kids and pay someone else to raise them. Very few families have the privilege of actually raising their own children. And nobody talks about any of this and just keeps putting pressure on the populace to measure up to our neighbors. It makes no sense. (((Hugs)))

I get the impression that childcare has become more high-maintenance over the last few decades. It was a gradual thing, so older generations don't always understand that it has changed and wonder why today's young parents seem to be having so much trouble.

[leejosepho]

We might not be offering you much hope, Migillicuty, but not because you are not being heard...and I think you make a great point here:

I feel like society has been completely fooled into accepting this typical way of living as, "the grown up and responsible thing to do."

There was a time when something like "forty acres and a mule" (figuratively speaking) was where or how a man could make a start and maybe even become iconic while raising a family, but now the acreage has all been consumed and "The Great American Dream" is at best a memorial pursuit leading to a nightmare. Our infrastructure is crumbling and I would guess most of today's young people cannot possibly live without being in love with debt (aka "good credit score")...and on and on we could go about all of that with no relief ever coming into view.

Be frugal and prudent while carefully discerning between necessities and conveniences (ultimately mis-perceived as necessities), and while looking for that niche where whatever you are doing will always be as close as possible to always being needed by others.

[obscurity]

I know how you feel. Especially last year, when my job was at a place that wasn't far above a sweatshop. I don't think we're brain washed as much as stuck. I would love to start my own business, but I hate taking risks and I'm afraid of people, so unless that gets changed, that's basically nothing more than a dream. People can live off the land, but tend to need money to get started. And even with those two options, its often even more exhausting, long hours of work than the more common option of getting a typical job (if you even can. I was unemployed for a year before finally getting hired, again). I often find myself thinking about what the point of life even is. You're born, suffer through school, get a crappy job, go through more school and graduate to higher paying, sometimes less crappy job. Again, if you're "lucky", cause you might end up chronically unemployed with the wonderful plus of lots of college debt. But, even if we were animals, they have to struggle to survive, relying on the luck of mother nature being on their side (which it isn't, many times). Seems that the person who said "Earth is some other planet's hell" wasn't far off.

But, I think that surviving your job ends up having to be a mix of finding your passion and using tricks to get through the day, if that's delayed for whatever reason. I work in fast food. I actually kind of like it, when we have a day that's not too busy and not to slow. Unfortunately, it's usually more slow, than anything. My passion is writing and drawing and I love music. So, when we have a slow day, I run my favorite songs through my head and I try to make up some plot points of a story I can write at home. Makes the day go by faster. Plus, I prefer to be as independent as possible and hate having to have help to survive, so I just remind myself of that. Quite a lot, lol. The stress of trying to figure out where my next bit of bill money was coming from was worse than standing through dull days of not having that many customers. Also, I like having some spending money and having breathing room. It's still hard, but maybe that could help? I dunno, you're right on it being rather pointless, the way we live. Maybe you could find a mentor or something that could help you make more money on selling your stuff online? I did stumble upon a website where you could find some people who were entrepreneurs and willing to help others. I can't remember what it was called, but you could Google it, if it's something you'd be interested in.

[Misssy2]

Working is a part of life..unless you are a millionaire.
Or unless you claim disability as I did..and then you get a measly amount of money..not enough to pay my bills now after making tons of money for years...working 50-60 hours a week...insane.

[eyesclosed]

It's still a choice you can make it's very simple. You only make as much as you owe. If you want to work part time you can is it worth having this or that. I enjoy working if it its something that has meaning and a end result and if I don't get paid as much so be it. So many people judge us by the cloths we wear the cars we drive how many friends we have even what kind of cell phone/computer we have. If you have a family to raise your pretty much have too work full-time if your single you have a choice.

[-jimi-]

Work eats up your time, and it does, 8 hours a day is never 8 hours, it is 8 hours plus overtime plus commuting plus getting dressed and fixed up for work, plus add in the work you take home with you, either by worrying or by actual working and so on. You are happy if you end up with only 11 hours here.

Then you have to do things at home, shopping and whatnot. There goes at least a few hours. To squeeze in any social life or hobbies, you do what ALL people I know do who work, you cut back on sleep. They get 2-3 hours less than they need every night.

With lack of sleep comes heart disease, strokes and obesity. All fun stuff.

Yes, something is very wrong with this.

Originally Posted by -jimi-

Work eats up your time, and it does, 8 hours a day is never 8 hours, it is 8 hours plus overtime plus commuting plus getting dressed and fixed up for work, plus add in the work you take home with you, either by worrying or by actual working and so on. You are happy if you end up with only 11 hours here.

The thing is also that other societies do not have this way of working. They work less hours and have more vacation.

I do agree that it is a good thing to simplify but the idea of working part time seems like a dream. I just can't find that many jobs that are part time and, if I do, they are typically part time in PAY only. i.e. they want you there all the time or give you more work. Also part time jobs don't always give you benefits, which are important.

I plan on just doing what I can to retire at the earliest point possible. A co worker who had worked 25+ years at the job and could just retire, didn't and stuck around for an important work thing. Then, she got cancer and died. That scared the crap out of me. All that she probably put up with just to get her retirement and she didn't even get to enjoy it.

[eyesclosed]

If you think the 40 hr work week is a curse, I would like to know what label would you put on dairy farming I have 2 cousins the 4th generation on my moms side. The farm is a 25 min drive and when unemployed used to help out 24/7 they also grow there own feed. It was why lots of people came here to WI from Norway,Sweden and Germany.

Originally Posted by lizardlady

[FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]Did you even read my reply?

Your the one that doesn't seem to have read the thread. You chose to start a business that would involve a lot of work and now seem to want to use that to argue against anyone else looking into self employment as a means of more freedom and less time at work. You admit you did it because it provided you with a sense of personal fulfillment. But the original poster was looking to find a job with less hours so he could be fulfilled with his family so clearly a lot of hours job would not be his goal.

The entire story is completely irrelevant OP's complaint and serves only so you can recommend 'finding your passion' and suggest that working for yourself will mean more hours when that is not at all the case in most if not all self employment situations.

I would like to know what label would you put on dairy farming

Same with this one.. what are we going to do go down the entire list of things which may involve more than 40 hours? Clearly if people are doing this it is worth it to them for personal / financial reasons. But me and the OP don't share that view and think it is crazy that everyone is forced to work 40 hours no matter what the profession or need.

[FooZe]

Sorry, folks, this thread has gotten heated and unsupportive. I'm going to close it while we discuss what needs to be done with it.