Hello folks,

So as per to a recent thread discussing the idea of opening up a Mental Health Stigma discussion board, I decided to open up a place myself, right here
A personal goal I see is reaching a solid solution for stigma, through opinions and constructive knowledge. I’ll start with my opinion, though it leans to pessimism.

My view on stigma is that... it is justified not because it hurts, but because stigma was created in the first place. Just like racism, if it exists then it’s inevitable. I know it’s a painful view, but I think it’s important to understand why there’s stigma in the first place before fighting it.
As for why fight stigma - because we are all connected. Mental health is an internal part of a social system, so it’s the social system (aka society) which makes the terms up about itself.
Once we understand that such issues are created within the system, then we know that the system itself is responsible for how it runs, in an overview.
This way, the “blame” shifts from people with defined “mental health issues”, into the system itself.

I would like to add, that I have also come up with a scheme which shows how workplaces affect families in the long run regarding defined “emotional health” and even “mental health”. I’ll be glad to express it per your wishes. For now though, let’s start the discussion

[tecomsin]

Thanks for starting this thread Vibrating Obsidian.
This is a hard topic for some reasons. For me it is a painful topic. I am not optimistic about a thread being able to change stigma but perhaps it will help the participants cope with stigma. We have also internalized each of us individually stigmatizing messages too. I find it very hard to disentangle now.

Originally Posted by tecomsin

Thanks for starting this thread Vibrating Obsidian.
This is a hard topic for some reasons. For me it is a painful topic. I am not optimistic about a thread being able to change stigma but perhaps it will help the participants cope with stigma. We have also internalized each of us individually stigmatizing messages too. I find it very hard to disentangle now.

What do you mean by that?

[tecomsin]

Originally Posted by Vibrating Obsidian

What do you mean by that?

I mean that we each have ideas about mental illness, our own mental illness that are impacted by the stigmatizing messages we received in our lives. Sometimes I don't know whether the most difficult stigma is what is directly coming from the outside or from the messages I tell myself. I don't know how much of my depression is due to internalized stigma.

Can you give a personal example?

[tecomsin]

I hope that other people step up to the plate to talk about the effect of stigma on their lives. I have internalized the rejection I feel from society for having a devastating mental illness. I feel bad about myself, about what I have done while manic and not done while depressed.

Do you relate?

[luvyrself]

Originally Posted by Vibrating Obsidian

Hello folks,

So as per to a recent thread discussing the idea of opening up a Mental Health Stigma discussion board, I decided to open up a place myself, right here
A personal goal I see is reaching a solid solution for stigma, through opinions and constructive knowledge. I’ll start with my opinion, though it leans to pessimism.

My view on stigma is that... it is justified not because it hurts, but because stigma was created in the first place. Just like racism, if it exists then it’s inevitable. I know it’s a painful view, but I think it’s important to understand why there’s stigma in the first place before fighting it.
As for why fight stigma - because we are all connected. Mental health is an internal part of a social system, so it’s the social system (aka society) which makes the terms up about itself.
Once we understand that such issues are created within the system, then we know that the system itself is responsible for how it runs, in an overview.
This way, the “blame” shifts from people with defined “mental health issues”, into the system itself.

I would like to add, that I have also come up with a scheme which shows how workplaces affect families in the long run regarding defined “emotional health” and even “mental health”. I’ll be glad to express it per your wishes. For now though, let’s start the discussion

----Thanks so much for starting this. Those of us who are still hiding our diagnosis are sick of it Im sure. And seeing so many prejudices crumbling down over the decades makes us resent having to hide it. I just showed my age, I guess, LOL! I'm semi retired right now, so I feel a degree of liberation. I would still hide it if I were working. NAMI is working on this, the younger generation of royalty in Great Britain, etc. More of us would have to come out to fight this effectively, I think.
I think some progress has been made. I remember when the stigma was worse. People were just afraid of mental illness in general. Way back, before lithium, depression and bipolar were to a large extent untreatable. Now there are more and more medications available and I think that has helped.And today many people realize how many people have at least depression at some time in their life.
On the down side (great bipolar pun LOL) the school shootings and other non political mass attacks (or all of them)increase stigma because the perpetrators are clearly mentally ill.
My family doesn't understand bipolar and they know me. My mom had situational depression and my grandfather had depression also so she understands at least the depression part. I have had this for 40 years, diagnosed myself, and diagnosed myself as mixed states and some days I myself feel I don't understand bipolar (my triggers, how far I can push myself, etc.) I think educating our family and the public is the first step in fighting stigma. It would be great if more celebrities would come out and help raise money for this. Some marches, teeshirts, armbands, etc would be great. Tee shirt could say Bipolars give twice the love!
Hugs everyone!

Originally Posted by tecomsin

I hope that other people step up to the plate to talk about the effect of stigma on their lives. I have internalized the rejection I feel from society for having a devastating mental illness. I feel bad about myself, about what I have done while manic and not done while depressed.

Do you relate?

I get what you're talking about, but the problem is external stigma. Why? Because were there no stigma from outside, no one would feel bad from inside, too.

Originally Posted by luvyrself

----Thanks so much for starting this. Those of us who are still hiding our diagnosis are sick of it Im sure. And seeing so many prejudices crumbling down over the decades makes us resent having to hide it. I just showed my age, I guess, LOL! I'm semi retired right now, so I feel a degree of liberation. I would still hide it if I were working. NAMI is working on this, the younger generation of royalty in Great Britain, etc. More of us would have to come out to fight this effectively, I think.
I think some progress has been made. I remember when the stigma was worse. People were just afraid of mental illness in general. Way back, before lithium, depression and bipolar were to a large extent untreatable. Now there are more and more medications available and I think that has helped.And today many people realize how many people have at least depression at some time in their life.
On the down side (great bipolar pun LOL) the school shootings and other non political mass attacks (or all of them)increase stigma because the perpetrators are clearly mentally ill.
My family doesn't understand bipolar and they know me. My mom had situational depression and my grandfather had depression also so she understands at least the depression part. I have had this for 40 years, diagnosed myself, and diagnosed myself as mixed states and some days I myself feel I don't understand bipolar (my triggers, how far I can push myself, etc.) I think educating our family and the public is the first step in fighting stigma. It would be great if more celebrities would come out and help raise money for this. Some marches, teeshirts, armbands, etc would be great. Tee shirt could say Bipolars give twice the love!
Hugs everyone!

There is a continuum effect to mental health. From the looks of it, even if someone doesn't have a mental illness, he'd be aware of it from acquaintances and eventually come to terms with it and be aware of its existence. And because the person will accept mental illnesses as a real thing, the person will acknowledge it for both themselves and their future family as something normal, despite that person never having had any form of mental illness
However, I personally have a problem with the mental health system which I can discuss right now.
One of the problems is black & white views - "good and bad", "weak and strong", "worthy and unworthy", etc
While I know from my readings and experiences that conditions according to professionals are "not about good or bad" for instance, the fact that the client initially feels the negative side of the spectrum about themselves comes to show that it's true, in the sense of giving in.
Yes, some therapists will say "No, you are not bad/a burden/whatever", or "It's not about what is right and what is wrong"... until they start to work on some conditions of yours and then you ponder "Wait... so a part of me was wrong all along?"

Now I'm starting to get what tecomsin means about internalized stigma. But I think we all sought treatment because of forms of social failures. I'm open to hear of otherwise cases

[TishaBuv]

My mother had written down a clever thingI said when I was two, “Do you think I’m crazy, do you think I have money in the bank?”

So, I was obviously aware of MI and it’s stigma as early as I could repeat.

[MoxieDoxie]

I do not see any reason to reveal my demons I deal with. Why should anyone know? I would explain only if I go bat **** crazy in public or something which has never happened. I work for myself so I do not have to deal with getting triggered or dealing asshole coworkers that set me off.

[tecomsin]

Originally Posted by Vibrating Obsidian

I get what you're talking about, but the problem is external stigma. Why? Because were there no stigma from outside, no one would feel bad from inside, too.

I don't agree with this, or, rather, I think this is too black and white.

My 24/7 problem is what I have internalized and beliefs about myself. It's my state of mind that I have to deal with all the time. Even if one removed all the external social stigma, I'd still have the memories of it in my head... and I would still have internalized social stigma.

[mugwort2]

This thread reminds me of an incident yesterday when some people on the bus were making really hurtful remarks about people with mental illness. The words nut, nuthouse, crazy people were constan tly being used. It started when a man in a wheelchair said in so many words I'm physically disabled not mentally disabled. There's nothing wrong with my head. I felt sorry he lost the use of his legs. OTOH I wanted to tell him mental illnesses are not as much illnesses as physical ones. That not every disability is visible. But I figured none of the passengers cared.

[LadyShadow]

Originally Posted by Vibrating Obsidian

I get what you're talking about, but the problem is external stigma. Why? Because were there no stigma from outside, no one would feel bad from inside, too.

Now I'm starting to get what tecomsin means about internalized stigma. But I think we all sought treatment because of forms of social failures. I'm open to hear of otherwise cases

I am glad you see what tecoomsin meant about internalized stigma. Where my mental issues were brought on by outside factors, my trauma, pain and diagnosis had NOTHING to do with the public opinion of mental health (extrenal stigma). My issues were deep seeded, caused by events in my childhood and carried on into my relationships. I also think people in my family have bipolar, (undiagnosed of course), and it was passed down to me.

Originally Posted by tecomsin

I don't agree with this, or, rather, I think this is too black and white.

My 24/7 problem is what I have internalized and beliefs about myself. It's my state of mind that I have to deal with all the time. Even if one removed all the external social stigma, I'd still have the memories of it in my head... and I would still have internalized social stigma.

Great point! Your feelings are valid and I 100% agree. If I were transplanted out of this society and placed somewhere that was full of peace and harmony, I might be happy for a while, but my illness would follow me wherever I go. I know this for a fact because for me, my biggest challenge is mania, and in a completely accepting, (no stigma), environment, I would still go totally out of my head and be delusional wihtout my medication.

[bunnyhabit]

mental health stigmas will always exist same as ethnicity and religious sigmas. my solution is to ignore and enjoy life best i may

[avlady]

I've grown to know that I don't have to let the stigma rule my thoughts and actions. After being in the system over 30 years i can honestly say that I was wrong alot about the people who tried to help me. Most of them working in hospitals. There were several although that I questioned how they got their jobs. I myself had to learn to cope, and with the help of others both docs and nurses and patients I've learned alot. I am on alot of meds but am under control right now. I'm sorry for causing anyone any pain too. The stigma to me doesn't matter as much as i got older. I wish I could help people see that the stigma is just that-a stigma and most people do want to help. Many families suffer because they feel the stigma in their lives but they don't really have to. Many many people have mentl isues in their families and try to hide it, but if they would just step up and help each other they would see it is more common than they think.

[eskielover]

Just thinking here & some thoughts that habe hit me on this topic:

Its difficult to not have some negative feelings that hurt my own life so badly because I didnt recognize the signs before getting involved & marry this person. The thing is that when we are wounded we tend to recognize the weapons we were hurt by & avoid them in the future even if it was a mental illness or condition. After so many years of living with it, it becomes more recognizable in others especially when observing that their behaviors create the same problems with others thst you lived around for so many years before finally escaping that environment.

I think for many instead of that just staying as an AWARENESS of the behavior it gets turned into stigma because of the negative effect it has caused.

I dont think stigma eoyld exist IF there weren't negative outcomes involved with the behaviors involved. Anything that creates a negative consequence has a stigma attached to it not just mental illness & yes, ehen that negative consewuence directly effects someone it is a lot more difficult to remove stigma thinking from the way they see it....being from within ourselves or those whise lives we have touched.

This (stigma) definitely applies to more than just mental illness & is not something that can be broken since the negative consequences that create the stigmas continue to occur. There will always be those who continue to generalize also which only feeds into stigma. Peoples thoughts cant be controlled & we wouldn't want our iwn thoughts controlled....stigmas will always exist as it seems to be the way the mind handles things that arebdifferent & create negative consequences.

[eskielover]

have permanent damage to my health that I will have to deal with the rest of my life because medical workers discriminated against me because no matter how I presented the facts, I wasn't taken seriously. Everything that I said was erroneously attributed to 'anxiety'

that is interesting because NOT all the medical profession is that way. Everything for me that was attrubuted to anxiety was tested out medically to make sure there wasn't something physical causing it. It wasn't just one MD that was like that of one medical group as I went to several dufferent ones over those years.

I am so sorry & SAD that you exoerienced this horrible invaludation

[eskielover]

I am saying that all men & women with the mental condition I experienced in my marriage will have a difficult time making a marriage work. I have since I left & found out what I had been luving with my wbole married life observed others married to people with the same mental condition & they have either left the marriage or are struggling to deal with it.

It has NOTHING to do with domestic violence. It has everything to do with how their mental condition makes a marriage difficult to be successful

[mote.of.soul]

Yes, I don't think stigma will ever disappear unless human beings, and thus society, changes and stops seeing MI as a disgrace. Not everyone, of course, holds a negative view about people with MI issues, but many do hence the existence of the stigma. Man, as a whole, needs to evolve up the ladder some more, that's all there is to it.

[seesaw]

I have experienced a lot of discrimination due to stigma in my life, but I have worked to fight stigma, even though it makes me nervous to tell the world my Dx. I do share on social media the struggles I face and that I have PTSD and depression. I also share about things like sleep paralysis and my insomnia. I have had people reach out to me who were suffering (Coworkers even who were suicidal) and knew that they could talk to me. And I think that my being brave enough to share my story (or at least parts of it) has helped others. There is a group local to me called Stronger than Stigma, and they do a lot of work to raise awareness about mental health disorders.

There are multiple stigmas about having a mental "illness" or mental health disorder (my preferred way of referring to it). The two I deal with most are that 1) I cannot work because I cannot handle stress - NOT TRUE and 2) I am an overly emotional person who breaks down at the slightest problem.

The reality is actually that I handle pressure far better than most "normies." I've had to live with these disorders and learn to function, so even though I deal with symptoms and managing my disorder, I'm actually far more successful than my "normal" counterparts because I know how to care for myself in the work place. They break up with a boyfriend or girlfriend and they fall apart. I've learned how to deal with emotions and still function...

On the second thing, yes, I do have emotions. I'm not overly emotional though. But I do have strong emotions, and I do have triggers that a normal person won't have. That's a product of being abused. However, just like learning self care and how to set boundaries as in the above paragraph, I have learned to use my emotion and turn it into passion that helps me connect with people and come off as genuine and interested.

I'm not saying there are benefits to having an MH disorder. Because I'd rather not have PTSD. But, I've learned to use all my issues to my advantage. If these are characteristics I'm going to have, then let me show you how I can use them to work for you, and make me a successful employee, business owner, friend, daughter, etc.

In a way, it's like someone with diabetes who is in very much control of their diabetes because they maintain their diet and exercise and take their meds. They might do really well as a personal trainer or nutritionist because they've learned how to manage these aspects in their own life, and had to do so to stay alive. The same thing happens with having an MH disorder. We learn how to function under terrible circumstances. That's an accomplishment.

But, back to stigma, lots of things used to have stigma that no longer do or the stigma is less and decreasing. There used to be huge stigma about women's issues, and now we see tampon commercials everywhere. There was a stigma about being a feminist at one point, but now it's bad not to be a feminist. There was a stigma to being a working mother...I don't know why I'm only thinking of things about women, maybe because it's at the forefront of my mind right now. Think of Stephen Hawking...we used to have huge stigma about people with physical disabilities, and while there still is a stigma there, it's a lot less because of the work he and others have done to show that physical disability does not mean you can't do great things.

So I think it's important to fight stigma. And we all do it in the ways that make sense for us. Some of us are able, like me, to speak out about our experience. Others are not able to, for whatever reason, but maybe they share or like a story, or maybe they confide in a friend who also has problems and realizes they can get help. If we all do what little we can to help others, it can make big difference. For example, not using mental health disorders as derogatory terms...for example saying someone is "schizo" or "manic depressive" or "OCD" just to describe annoying or irritating behavior.

In another support group, someone posted a thread asking a question about something and saying they were too "OCD" to do something at this point. I very politely asked if she was actually referring to being Dx'd OCD or if she meant it to refer to the qualities of OCD, because OCD isn't just about perfectionism. That happens for some people, but that stigma of OCD does a disservice to the pain people with OCD feel and the anxiety they feel. So if she doesn't have OCD, to please not use it as a way to describe how she feels about something. I said this very politely, and she responded that she isn't Dx'd yet but she is being evaluated and she totally got it. And it sparked a good discussion in that group about OCD, the characteristics, etc. And it broke down stigma.

So...we all do what we can. But if we do nothing, then we will see nothing change. Change can absolutely happen. Look at Ghandi. Look at Mother Theresa. Look at Rosa Parks. They said peaceful protest would never work, and look what those people accomplished.

We can affect change.

[malakeet]

How do you cope with the negativity that accompanies the stigma towards mental disorders? How do your close friends and family members treat you?

[eskielover]

I think thst stigmas are different between different mental illnesses also. Not all are treatedvwith equal stigma & situational caused mental illnesses seem tp have less also from what I have observed....though it helps once the situation is defined & acknowledged even if not by those involved in the situation itself. Just something I seem to have experienced & noticed personally.

Also helps to start fresh in a new town where no one saw how bad it was when healing does start to take place & going to therapy is common place anymore

I don't deal so much with the tip toeing over eggshells around me as I do the second guessing my decisions. There are assumptions people close to me make with respect to the Bipolar. If I am having an extraordinarily bad day - which regular people have too - it must be the illness and I should see my psychiatrist. If I am showing happiness that can't be trusted either and I should see my psychiatrist. And then there are the decisions I make - they are all considered to be rash, especially if they involve money. Again, I should see my psychiatrist.

Namely, I can't be trusted.

[MoxieDoxie]

The stigma for Bulimia is soooooo bad that I can never ever tell anyone to get some kind of support outside of therapy.

[tecomsin]

Originally Posted by justafriend306

I don't deal so much with the tip toeing over eggshells around me as I do the second guessing my decisions. There are assumptions people close to me make with respect to the Bipolar. If I am having an extraordinarily bad day - which regular people have too - it must be the illness and I should see my psychiatrist. If I am showing happiness that can't be trusted either and I should see my psychiatrist. And then there are the decisions I make - they are all considered to be rash, especially if they involve money. Again, I should see my psychiatrist.

Namely, I can't be trusted.

This is part of why I've withdrawn from the world.