For those that use Smilie Central...

GOOD GRIEF, CHARLEY BROWN!!!!

I deleted Spy Doctor and installed Spy Bot - Search and Destroy. It found almost 100 objects. I downloaded Ad-aware SE and it found over 100 objects!! I think everything is fixed. I haven't gotten any error boxes... BUT ... Spybot S&D keeps throwing up a box that says there's been a change to my registry (that had 40 changes to it!) that keeps wanting me to accept or deny a change to a browser; the value changed. It doesn't matter what I do, the damned box keeps popping back up! ARRRRRGH! You got any suggestions??

Everything else seems to be fixed.... Oh! But when I go back to PCWorld.com, it keeps telling me I need to download "Registry Mechanic." I'm not sure if I should. Things are just beginning to look normal again!

And would you believe... Smilie Central showed up as the culprit THIRTEEN TIMES!! That is what installed IE My Web Search that hijacked my MSN page and IE browser!!

LAWD A' MACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why can't these idiots put their talents to GOOD use????????



<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

>>Spybot S&D keeps throwing up a box that says there's been a change to my registry

Check the settings in Spybot to see if you can turn off that warning. When I start something new like that, like I did with Spybot, I usually start off leaving the warnings on, just to get an idea for example of what kind of things is it finding. As I get a feeling for it and also start to get annoyed by the warnings, I turn them lower and lower and finally off. I can't remember where the settings for the warnings are in Spybot, if you can't find them I'll have to look around.

>>Why can't these idiots put their talents to GOOD use????????

Well, Caveat Emptor. They've got a website that it costs to host and to maintain, plus a large bandwidth allowance since they allow you to link to the graphics right from their host, whereas a lot of websites that offer graphics do not. They have to keep the graphics organized and do some database programming to keep everything usable. They offer the use of their graphics free of charge, but they're not doing it out of the kindness of their heart.

That's why I'm wary of any site that makes me enter my name and email address. Its not that I won't do it, I just consider the value of the site as compared with the possibilities of what they want to do with the information they get from me before deciding to sign up.

So "Why can't these idiots put their talents to GOOD use????????", in our society, finding creative ways to do marketing and to make money is considered good use. It goes along with billboards, squishing the credits of a movie to microscopic size so they can show coming attractions for the news at 11 (not to mention the identification bug that is on virtually every station all the time now) and supermarket "advantage" cards.

Viruses are another story. These guys just like the challenge of messing up other people's stuff, maybe getting on the news is their reward, or at least notoriety in cracker circles.

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--http://www.idexter.com

The Registry Mechanic only shows up when I go to PCWorld.com after it does its little scan of your computer. More spyware? Who knows, who cares.

The box telling me there was a registry change is something else again. It's as bad as the error boxes were! LOL What I did to fix this was click on the Spybot-S&R icon on my task bar and clicked Spybot Resident. The icon went away and the box quit popping up. What did I do?? Just this one thing and everything should be back to normal, but do you think I should get the Registry Mechanic?




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

I'm not familiar with Registry Mechanic. I used to get PCWorld mag, I just checked their website and there's not much info on reg mechanic...

I have found with "automated" registry cleaners that you still have to be careful with them, none of them work 100% and they'll flag anything they don't recognize, and if you let them clean up you could have a problem.

If everything is working now I'd say don't get anything new for now. If something pops up in the near future you won't know if it is something that still isn't fixed or if it is something new that the editor did.

So just cross your fingers and hope everything stays clean, and remember it's like thunder and lightning, the way you love me is frightening. You better knock, knock on wood, baby.

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--http://www.idexter.com

AWWWWW! I didn't mean to scare you! LMAO!!

I do love you and I am knocking on wood!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dave}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Thank you so much for all your help and your patience with me... and such a wonderful way of explaining tecky stuff to a tech challanged person! LOL

Luv ya!





<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Been learning a lot about computers, spy ware, add ware, missing dll files, etc. Also learned something to NOT do besides not have a spy catcher... DON'T DOWNLOAD SPY BUSTER!! It will totally lock you out of the internet, including sites that you always go to!! I got locked out of this site last night and no matter what I did, I couldn't get back in until I deleted SPY BUSTER from my computer! I mean... it catches every single tracking cookie and anything that might remotely feel like spyware! GEE WHIZIKERS!!

Everything is alright now with Spy Bot - S&D and the lastest version of Ad-Aware-Personal. Make sure you download Ad-Aware and nothing else!

Wow!! I don't ever want to go through that again!!

Thanks {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dave}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} for all your help!





<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

ARRRRRGH!!!! And the beat goes on! STILL having problems with Internet Explorer! My opening page keeps getting highjacked, so... I deleted IE from my computer (finally figured out how!) and I've gone to Netscape. Don't know how that's gonna work but for right now it feels so Dang Good to find my Yahoo page still intact! Yesssss! OH! And no unwanted, unasked for icons all over my desktop!!




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

If you are happy and become comfortable with Netscape that's good... but if you want to try something else Firefox is the hot new browser, free, and made by Mozilla...

It is VERY conformant to web standards, has a built in pop-up blocker, a very nice tabbed interface, and is very easy to add features to with plug in extensions. I've grown very happy with it.

You should be able to install it alongside Netscape with no problem. I have it installed along with IE, I keep them both active to check that my web pages work properly in both browsers... but I do all my browsing in Firefox.

You should also keep IE on your system if for no other reason than that to access Windows Update (which you should do regulalry to check for patches and things) that ONLY works through the IE explorer. Having it on your system isn't going to hurt anything... I have everything set so that when I click on links on my desktop or in my email it opens right in Firefox by default, I get IE only when I manually open IE for whatever reason I want it.

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--http://www.idexter.com

Well, I deleted IE but there is one component that is STILL causing me problems. I'm not sure if it's a legitmate Internet Explorer component or not, but it keep reinstalling itself even if I don't have a browser open, including AOL. It's called "iExplore." Last night it downloaded all the icons on my desktop when I had everything that connects to the Internet shut down. There's nothing I can do to uninstall or delete it! When I try, it tells me "Access Denied." What I'm going to do is take this thing in and have it cleaned out by a professional. I've just had it "up to here" and beyond!! I'm pretty certain this THING attached itself to an automatic download because neither my husband or I downloaded anything that day that it could have been hanging onto. I did notice, however, that there was an "update" downloaded while I was on the computer.

Ah, Hell!! I'm done with it! I'm so fed up I don't even feel like going through the hassle of coming here. That's not good!




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

OK, this may be another long one...

<ul>[*]First... don't worry about uninstalling Internet Exporer or any browser. Getting rid of the browser really has nothing to do with the problem... the browser is just the application that lets you look at the internet. There is a ton of other stuff behind the scenes that takes care of the dirty work of connecting to the internet. If you have something malicious that is trying to download stuff, it would be able to do so even with no browser at all installed on your system.

And you can't get rid of that "behind the scenes" stuff because then you wouldn't be able to connect to the internet at all. Might as well just take the easy route and disconnect the phone cord...
[*]Second, you really can't get rid of Internet Explorer even if you wanted to. Don't know if you remember the court cases going on when Microsoft was being sued. You can get rid of some parts of the browser but that is generally not a good thing to do.

When you open a file window on your computer to find or open some files? That window is part of some common code that Internet Explorer uses. At the top of one of those file windows it shows the folder "address", usually shows a little yellow folder icon followed by c:\foldername\anotherfoldername\filename.gif or something... (if you don't see that, go to "View" -> "Toolbars" -> and check "Address Bar")

With a folder window open, try deleting the text in the address bar and typing "www.idexter.com" in there instead and then hit "enter" (make sure you don't have any of old foldername left over, including the "c:]")

Depending on what you have managed to delete, you may get an error message, but more likely you are going to connect to my website. And if you connect, you will recognize that you are still in an explorer window, not in Netscape which is now your default browser... because you invoked the connection directly from IE.
[*]I'm not sure what you deleted, but if you deleted parts of IE directly from the "Program Folders" you should NEVER do that unless you specifically know what you are deleting and the consequences of doing so. You never know what other things are in there that some other program might rely on, and in addition, doing that still leaves all the junk in the registry and anything that program might have installed in your system folder, and if something is messed up it is more likely that one of those two things is doing the messing up, and deleting whatever parts were in the program folder is only going to complicate matters. There are SO MANY TIMES I can't even tell you how many that people have me come over to fix their computers because something is no longer working and the problem is that they deleted something in a folder somewhere that they were "sure" they didn't need.

Only delete things that are your own files... word documents, images you've downloaded, etc... unless you have specific instructions from someone who knows their stuff instruct you to do so.
[*]AOL, I forgot that was in the mix. But you don't browse right through the AOL windows? Instead you use AOL as your ISP and for your email, and use a separate browser to do your web surfing?

That is a perfectly fine thing to do... but people who just browse using their AOL software are using a browser (by definition) that is part of the AOL software... only that browser isn't made by AOL, it is just either Netscape or Internet Explorer that is licensed to AOL and integrated to look like it is all in the same AOL window. AOL keeps changing their contracts... browsers are a big deal, originally it was Netscape that was built into AOL but then they signed a big contract with Microsoft to make it IE instead... Microsoft pulled some clout and would not allow AOL to have a setup routine included in Windows (when you install Windows fresh there is an icon on the deskop that lets you sign up for an AOL account if you don't have internet access yet... obviously that is a HUGE advantage to have that placement, and I think MS said they wouldn't keep AOL's icon there unless they switched from Netscape to IE, and that is part of the reason that Netscape sued them, etc etc etc.

But at some point AOL switched back to Netscape and I eventually lost track. The point is, just by installing AOL you have an additional browser installed, even if you never use it.

But as I said, not to worry, because it isn't the browser that is the problem.
[*]iexplore.exe. That is a legitimate file, no reason to remove it MAYBE. One thing that evil software sometimes does is install software with a legitimate name (from some other software) but they install it in a different folder. You see that name in some folder and don't suspect it, but the file is really something completely different that has the same name and does evil things.

Run a search for iexplore.exe. You should have one in "Program Files\Internet Explorer" (unless you deleted that manually). IF you find one in your system directory (most likely "Windows\System" or "Windows\System32" then that is a likely a known piece of spyware. You will want to be sure before deleting it though.

You won't be able to delete that from the system folder though, you will get an error message if you try. To do so you will have to restart your system in safe mode and then delete the file.

(To restart in safe mode, you have to shut down your computer and then turn it on again, and hit the "F8" key on your keyboard really quickly. It can be tricky, just keep tapping on it rapidly, it kind of has to be done right after the POST "beep" and before anything else starts to happen. If you miss it an Windows starts just try again. You'll know you are in safe mode because your screen will be at the default color and resolution and it will say "safe mode" in all four corners. Make the necessary changes and then restart normally when you are done).

If you find the file in other places let me know where. You may find it in some backup install folders and that's OK.
[*]The "automatic update" may not be a bad thing, where did you see there was an update and can you tell me what it says? If it was a Windows update then that is good and you don't want to stop those. You can always treat those as safe, not because they always are, but because if they ever weren't it would effect so many machines so quickly that it would cause an immediate and major stink that you would here about likely even on the news. I've seen updates that had some bugs that MS had to fix quickly but never saw one that someone had tapped into... MS did distribute at one point (this was many years ago) a CD with some information on it to corporate users, and the CD contained a virus. They found it quickly and issued new disks but it is mindboggling how that could have slipped through quality control and how it could have gotten there in the first place. That made the news .

The "Critical Updates" that Windows downloads automatically are OK (and are a good thing) and anything you find that is an important update on the Windows Update page (which only works if you access it from Internet Explorer) (you can ignore the frivolous stuff there like "destop pattern" themes and things for languages that you don't speak ). Also automatic updates that McAfee downloads (or any antivirus software for those following along) are not only OK but are IMPORTANT. If your antivirus software doesn't download updates automatically at regular intervals then you HAVE to do it yourself. At least once a week, more is better. If you don't do that, your antivirus software becomes useless because it can't check for the newest viruses that are going around.)

If you are finding that some third party software that you don't recognize is downloading something, let me know and we'll see if it is something OK or something nasty.
[*]Bringing the thing in to someone is probably a good idea. I really wish I was nearby, I know I could take care of this for you, it is just difficult without being able to see and "poke around" myself there.

I'm still willing to keep trying as long as you are though. If you want to give me a status report as to what exactly is happening now, what error messages and when they occur, and anything else that is suspicious or flaky.

Maybe also give me a list of everything listed on that startup tab in msconfig. If it is a long list you may have to decide whether it is worth typing it or if it would just be easier to bring the machine in. I can see if I can find something that will capture it to a file automatically maybe. It is going to be harder for you to type than for me to read so don't worry about my end. I would only want the two columns that say "startup item" and "command"
[*]If you do bring the machine in, find someone you trust. Not everyone knows what they are doing. You don't want to pay someone to have it look like it is fixed because they poked around until they fixed the symptoms without curing the root problem. It may be tricky to get a warranty for that. If popups reappear in a few weeks they may claim that they fixed it and you downloaded the popup stuff again... and to be honest there isn't much way to be sure that that isn't what happened, they come from such unexpected places.
[*]There is a very recent Windows update, a BIG one, called "service pack 2" (SP2)... large and a long download. It has a LOT of changes toward system security, including a revamped firewall and some things to prevent popups from installing themselves.

After installing SP2 you may notice some system changes. The new firewall is a good one that monitors whenever ANYTHING tries to connect to your computer. So it is almost certain that it will come up when you try to use certain pieces of software, and you will have to decide whether to let it connect or not. It also may inhibit the operation of some games, a lot of games now use the internet for gameplay.

I waited a bit to install SP2 to see if others had problems, but I've had it installed for I think 2 weeks now? Maybe 3? with no problems whatsoever with any of my software, not my "common software" or my graphics software. I don't have ANY games installed here though so I can't speak to how those might be effected.

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--http://www.idexter.com

WHEW! That is a long one! Let me see how far I can get in answering point by point. If I don't finish tonight, I promise I'll finish tomorrow.

"If you have something malicious that is trying to download stuff, it would be able to do so even with no browser at all installed on your system."

Ok, I found that out already even after I thought I had deleted IE. You betcha! It still pops up whenever I use a Windows anything... even my spyware!

"Don't know if you remember the court cases going on when Microsoft was being sued."

I remember when they got sued but I didn't know all of the details. All I was aware of was they wanted to split Microsoft up because it was monopolizing the industry.

"At the top of one of those file windows it shows the folder "address", usually shows a little yellow folder icon followed by c:\foldername\anotherfoldername\filename.gif or something... (if you don't see that, go to "View" -> "Toolbars" -> and check "Address Bar")"

Uh-hu. I found that out when I clicked the button for more information on the bug that's giving me the problem. It was an Internet Explorer address bar! LOL It's happened a few more times. ggrrrrr

"I'm not sure what you deleted, but if you deleted parts of IE directly from the "Program Folders" you should NEVER do that unless you specifically know what you are deleting and the consequences of doing so."

I didn't delete anything from the program folders. I found that file somewhere else while I was cruisin' my directory. Just because you delete one file in one place doesn't mean you've got it all, either! When I used Add/Remove Programs to get rid of Spyware Doctor, it came right out and told me it had left some components in my directory. I found them scattered elsewhere. I deleted them and now I don't get that stupid little warning that Spyware Doctor couldn't create a log and to please reinstall the program! ARGH

"AOL, I forgot that was in the mix."

Yup! Wonderful AOL! Last I heard, they were still using IE as their browser, but couldn't swear to it.

I've been trying to stay off AOL and get used to Netscape. That's what I'm on now.

"But as I said, not to worry, because it isn't the browser that is the problem."

I finally figured that out. Like I said, those stupid files even re-install themselves whether I'm on the internet or not!

"IF you find one in your system directory (most likely "Windows\System" or "Windows\System32" then that is a likely a known piece of spyware. You will want to be sure before deleting it though."

Either Spybto S&D or Ad-Aware found it in System 32. That's where that one .dll was missing from that was giving me all the problems with error boxes. When I downloaded Service Pack 2, it took care of it.

"You won't be able to delete that from the system folder though, you will get an error message if you try. To do so you will have to restart your system in safe mode and then delete the file."

No ******, Sherlock! LOL It keeps telling me access denied! I can't remember exactly what spyware it was or maybe both and including McAfee that, by process of ellimination, I figured out that one "iexplore.exe" that I can't delete is the offending file.

"(To restart in safe mode, you have to shut down your computer and then turn it on again, and hit the "F8" key on your keyboard really quickly."

I know about that safe mode. I even watched my neighbor put my old computer into that safe mode and mess with it. He still messed something up! Methinks this is the best place for me to stop messing around with things I don't know anything about and call Dell Support to help me out.

"I'm still willing to keep trying as long as you are though. If you want to give me a status report as to what exactly is happening now, what error messages and when they occur, and anything else that is suspicious or flaky.

Maybe also give me a list of everything listed on that startup tab in msconfig. If it is a long list you may have to decide whether it is worth typing it or if it would just be easier to bring the machine in."

Somewhere in my search for some answers, I happened on a support message board for Spybot or for Ad-Aware. They use "Hijack This!" They ask for the log that the program creates. IF! and I say IF I can find that log, I'll send it to you. If not, I'll see what I can do about giving you all the flakey stuff that is happening.

Also, I've checked the log of the Windows updates and I can't tell one from the other as far as pinpointing the hijacker. My memory really sucks! I can't even remember About when my IE got hijacked, but it was clearly obvious to me that something happened! It's not an IE search page at all! Besides! My IE opening page wasn't a search page before it got hijacked! That just chaps my hide to NO END!!!!! @#$%*!!!! @#$%&!!!! @#$%&*&!!!!!

When all the icons install themselves on my desktop, I stop and run both Spybot and Ad-Aware and there's ALWAYS one @#$% last icon left!!! It's for a poker game!!! That's the one speck that gets left behind that neither spyware software can get! I clicked on "Properties" and got their website addy, but guess what? IE couldn't find it! Neither could Google nor Netscape!

I downloaded SP2 before I supposedly deleted IE, I've got the firewall running and I've updated my McAfee. Most of the time they tell me everything is cool. Sure! Because that one damnable program is already inside the walls! Although McAfee did warn me when I was trying to access some website. I don't remember which one it was, but I stopped where I was and backed out.

Ok... I've tried to answer your questions, made remarks and had my rant. PLEASE! PLEASE don't go putting more time into this until I make up my mind what I'm going to do. It's just not fair to you, ok? I know computers are "your thing," but you've got much more important stuff to be thinking about and doing. I so much appreciate your time and effort into this but I get to feeling so guilty because maybe you could have been spending your time doing something more important to/for you.

Big, squeezy {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dave}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} for you!




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Dave,

I'm getting into this one too........lol. I downloaded SP2 tonight and have been having nothing but problems with it - says that certain files can't be started, can't be found.

If you can help me, I'd be most appreciative. The next time I can write down the messages for you.

Please???????

Mary Alice

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.
Dorothy Bernard

MA,

What problems are you having with sp2? It was a little buggy at first by I tweaked it out and it's working great now. Can I help?

Gregorio Blanco



"Beauty is truth, truth is beauty - that is all you know on earth, and all you need to know"

{{{{{{{Greg}}}}}}}}}}}

You wonderful person!

AXWIN Frame Window: NMain.exe - Unable to Locate Component. This application has failed to start because MSVCRT40.dll was not found. Re-installing the application may fix this problem.

That is just one of the problems that pops up.

Thanks. xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.
Dorothy Bernard

Let me see if I can find a copy of the file and I'll email it to you. Give me a few minutes...



"Beauty is truth, truth is beauty - that is all you know on earth, and all you need to know"

MA,

Can you PM me your email address please?

Greg



"Beauty is truth, truth is beauty - that is all you know on earth, and all you need to know"

Do a search for msvcrt40.dll and make sure it is really missing. If you find the file, make a copy of it before you replace it with the one that bp sends.

It should be in your Windows/System32 folder. If you find more than one copy let us know where they are. There should only be one copy but it is normal to also find copies in places like "servicepackfiles" and other download and backup folders.

The program looking for the file is Norton Security (Antivirus, Net Security) Reinstalling Norton might help.

If replacing the file that bp sends doesn't work, hold off on tweaking further, there could be something wrong with your NMain.exe file. Trojan viruses sometimes try to hack it to disable your virus protection.

<hr>

If replacing the file works then you should be OK to go about your business, but I'm concerned that it should have gone missing since it is a standard file that is a part of Windows.

I use Norton Antivirus here and didn't have any problem with that. If there are more problems we'll look into it further.

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--http://www.idexter.com

Oh... and be aware that your Antivirus may be partially or totally disabled while you are trying to fix this so please be extra careful. The firewall upgrades in SP2 should take care of any security issues... but for viruses you may be exposed until you fix this.

------------------------------------
--http://www.idexter.com

Dave,

I have 2 of them.........one is at c:\windows\softwaredistribution\download and the other one is at
c:\windows\servicepackfiles\i386

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.
Dorothy Bernard

Alot of aol files can't work because of that file like waol.exe and my spysweeper says it can't start either, yet it does.

I just keep getting all these popup boxes that say such and such can't start because that file is missing.

Thanks Dave & Greg

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.
Dorothy Bernard

Hi, Hun... I remember that you asked me if Gator was a culprit. It sure is! If I was you, I'd do a spyware check first, although I guess it doesn't really matter. I downloaded SP2 but I can't say it's given me any problems because I'm trying to stay away from Internet Explorer. Oh, oops! We had to disable the Firewall when I switched form dail-up to cable modem! Forgot about that! I wouldn't say it's a problem, though.

Anyway, it wouldn't be a bad idea to download Spybot- Search and Destry and Ad-Aware. You'll find them if you click on the link that Dave posted for me. It's Lavasoft USA, I think!

Good luck, Sweety!




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

I have Webroot's Spy Sweeper, Tomi and it is awesome. It hasn't detected anything unusual. I ran it and it showed nothing.

I'm sorry if I barged into your thread.


Courage is fear that has said its prayers.
Dorothy Bernard

OK, it certainly does look as if that file has gone awol...

I actually found a place you can get it on the web but I want to check to be sure it is reliable and the correct version. Hold on...

This might then solve a lot of the problems. Still don't know why it should have gone missing though...

Be back soon......


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--http://www.idexter.com

OK, here you go...

The one in c:\windows\servicepackfiles\i386 should be a copy of the correct and up to date version.

Find that file and copy it to your c:\windows\system32 folder.

Make sure you copy instead of move, in case something doesn't work, you still have that clean copy in the servicepack folder.

If you want to doublecheck, if you right-click on the file and choose "Properties",
<ul>[*]the "General" tab should show a file size of 61,440 bytes),[*]the "Modified" date should be August 4, 2004, 1:58:25 AM

and[*]the "Version" tab should show file version 5.1.2600.2180.
In the "other items" list in the bottom of that tab, if you click on "File Version" you should see the same version number, and some other stuff that starts with (xpsp_sp2...) which marks it as part of the service pack two updates.[/list]
Make that copy into System32 folder, restart your computer, and see if anything is healthier...

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--http://www.idexter.com

LOL Silly girl! You didn't barge into anything! Doesn't the subject line say "for those.."? There's no way you could ever barge in if I'm there. You're always welcome wherever I happen to be. I mean it, ok?

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mary Alice}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>