What Stacey J getting fired means to us....

Those of you who saw the apprentice last night know that Stacey J was fired, not for poor job performance, but because the other team mates did not like her. Each said she was "crazy."

In all of my years working for fortune 500 companies, I have seen a good amount of people get fired. Of all those cases, I can not think of one that could be directly traced to bad performance. Nearly all of them were fired because of office politics and coworkers just not liking them.

This is not limited to lower level employees. I saw a chief technology officer of a very large company where I was employed get fired because the chief financial officer wanted him out (for purly personal reasons).

I guess I'm posting this because I thought it was interesting and represents something I've seen time and time again...

Mental and emotional disorders are a huge impediment to employment! I've been fired because of the trouble I had getting along with people I worked for (in my case the conflicts were with supervisors - usually because I called them on things they were doing wrong, but I would hold my discomfort in until it just kind-of exploded, and that wasn't good). These past couple of weeks that I've been trying to get a job - well, all summer actually, and longer than that - I've been wondering how people with mental and emotional disabilities ever manage to get a job at all, and I've been a little jealous besides impressed with some of the great jobs that some of the people here have. Issues like these keep a lot of people from getting education, training, and jobs, which in turn can quite often worsen the mental/emotional conditions and just make it harder and more discouraging. It can be pretty rough.

I agree... although I HAVE been in situations where I have definitely seen people fired for poor performance, this usually happens fairly quickly when it becomes clear the person is incapable of carrying out their duties. Most often though it is a matter of personalities, prejudices, and politics whereby the people in charge find some sort of "performance issue" to blame the release on.

The situation with Stacy J was pretty weird though. They showed the event that spooked everyone in the first episode. But I am very curious about the dynamic beyond what was edited to fit a one hour show with an attempt to make a "story" for the viewer (which I think "The Apprentice" does a great job at, BTW, but you still have to take things at face value).

Clearly her behaviour frightened everyone, or at least caught them off guard. I think it was due to a bit of stress but it also seemed to me that Stacy was trying to bring up moral... she was trying to move the group into some confidence on the task with the "8-ball" and her other comments when they were all sitting around despondant waiting for the results of the challenge. Personally I didn't find her actions "scary" but then I wasn't there, and maybe it was the quick change in character or something we didn't see that caught everyone off guard.

But what I was REALLY thinking about last night was at this point, three weeks later, (or however much time had passed for them) and Trump polled each team member, how much of their "agreement" was just from them all talking about it for so long, rather than their true impressions of the actual event? I'm not even saying there was conspiracy involved... but with everyone talking about it so much it certainly must have helped others form their opinions thereby explaining their "unity". It was also clear that for whatever reason, Stacy J wasn't fitting in with the group, not a member of the "clique" as she put it, and I think that had a lot to do with everyone taking that stance... the boardroom must be so stressful in general, and this was a very easy "solution" for them this week, to just "tow the company line" and solidify their opinions against Stacy.

I don't know that the issue had anything to do with a clinical condition. They did make some accusations of that in the boardroom, mosly clearly uninformed (saying it was almost like she was schizophrenic when I think they meant some form of dissociative or personality disorder) but one of the woman just quietly said that mental illness was something she had experience with and left it at that. However I don't think Trump fired her under the assumption that she might have a mental illness, but rather that no matter what the cause, she displayed some flaky behavior (as presented by the team) that made him not trust her to run one of his companies. Not to mention that she wasn't getting along with the rest of the team, which is a problem for someone trying to run a company.

Personally I don't think, based on what I saw, that there was any sort of clinical thing at work with Stacy and I do think it was very unfair of people to bring that up without knowing what they were talking about. Of course we are more sensitive than most about people throwing those terms around loosly.

I agree. I'd be surprised if it were a mental condition if for no other reason, the fact that it appears to have presented itself only once. If I had to guess, my theory would be that she was suffering from lack of sleep and perhaps took a little speed. Her actions seem very consistant with people i've seen on speed, meth, etc. That would also explain its sudden occurance and departure.

And don't forget that aside from the pressure of the task, the lack of sleep, the waiting for an answer from the judges, etc... they also have cameras in their face all the time, and that has to add to the stress too.

I work a lot of nights and weekends, so I don't get to see a lot of TV (my VCR is busted, and no Tivo yet! :-), but I wanted to respond to something Rapunzel said -- which is that in the last few jobs I've had, I got them when I was in "remission," if you want to call it that. Knowing what it's like to be horribly depressed, and having been that way enough to warrant a hospital stay earlier this year, I can't imagine being functional enough to go look for a job in that condition.

However, I have found that when the depression really kicks my butt AFTER starting a job, that my supervisors uniformly have been cool about it. If you lay it out for them, they're more likely than not to work with you on it. I told my current boss about my mental health maybe 6 months after I started. She said, "I've never been depressed or known anyone who was. Help me understand." She keeps track of my med changes, asks how things are going, came to see me in the hospital, and gives me huge breaks when I need them. The other 2 bosses I"ve had in the last 7 years who have had to deal with my mental illness have been equally nice about it.

There might be a stigma against it in the world Trump lives in, but for us peons, I've found that people are largely compassionate and willing to help you out.

Candy

Candy I am inspired, you must be a great employee to be treated so well. I am happy you have that kind of support, and in case anyone forgets, mental illness is a disability and we are protected under the Americans with Disabilities act.

I am not as well acquainted with the ADA as I should be. I work in a very small office (12 people) -- do they still have to abide by the ADA? I thought there was some rule about having 50 employees or over before you have to comply with it.

I'd be thrilled, if not, because while my immediate supervisor is the best ever, HER boss -- who contributes to my review -- is an a-hole and WILL bring up my absences for pdoc and therapy appts. and probably my week in the hospital. I'll spare you the horror story of what he did to a woman whose young teenage son is mentally ill -- but I want to be able to sue his sorry behind if I have to!

Candy

I wish I could erase my post here. Suddenly I'm embarassed that I said that. Candy, that's really great that your employers have been supportive. I hope that there are more like them out there. Maybe a large part of my problem was that I was too afraid to tell them why I was having trouble, or maybe I didn't even recognize it at the time. Let's see, it was two jobs. The first one, I was a personal attendent for a student with physical disabilities. I was pretty open with her. She fired me because I was discouraged that as I got more experienced and more efficient, I got paid less and couldn't make ends meet. She didn't think that should be her problem. But depression was kicking in at the same time, and I wasn't very effective in the way I presented the problem I guess. The other job, I was actually fired 3 times but kept begging for my place back. Lots of things were irritating me there, including having found out that they were paying me less than minimum wage.

I don't know why I'm suddenly so embarassed about my previous post and feeling compelled to explain this stuff. It's probably not even relevant, especially since I didn't see the TV show in question - this topic just happened to touch on one of my current issues.

candybear, mj gave me a lead on the ADA stuff, can't remember. Think that you are right about needing x number of employees. Does someone remember the web site?

... my thoughts about this are that you really need to weigh the facts regarding disclosing a mental health issue and not. At some point you just might need to do so to the personnel officer or ADA rep or, boss, about it, and make sure, by doing so, that if you are fired and you have documentation that you're doing your job correctly... and it was because of your illness... then you have recourse.

I say this, but have actually have never correctly "disclosed" to the right person, or at the right time.

Here's a link to the government's ADA site:

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm

I looked at the ADA itself, and it defines an employer as having 15 or more employees, so any place smaller than that does not have to abide by the ADA.

mj

I was so offended by the characterizations in the program that I wrote to NBC and Crest.

What's sad, though, is that outside of a message board like this, most people don't seem to give a darn about these issues, and I get so angry about that.

It put the Peanut in a pissy mood.