Scared for my grandson

Hi!
I've just been told of a dx for my 5yr old grandson. 2 dx's actually. First is ODD and the second is IED. If anyone out there is at all familiar with these 2 issues, I would like to hear from you. I have done some research and I'm not sure I'm convinced that IED is a valid dx. Of course I know there are exceptions to every rule. But from what I can see, IED is normally not dx'ed until late teens or twenties.

Also, I understand that these are not "stand alone" disorders and that they are associated with other personality disorders. Is it possible to dx a 5yr old with things such as bipolar, etc.?

Another question I have is this....should we be looking into having him seen by a neurologist? I'm wondering if there is something going on with him physiologically that is causing his psychological issues.

Thanks for any help you may have for me. I look forward to hearing from someone.

Take good care!

There were 2 second graders in a school where I sub last year that they suspected had bipolar disorder. Whether that can be diagnosed that early, I don't know.

I would also have him checked out by a neurologist....just to rule out other "problems".

Good luck and welcome to the forums!

Welcome...I wish I could help you...I guess if it were my son or grandson I would have him checked out by a neurologist and maybe seek a second opinion if you are not comfortable with the dx. I guess I would.

Can't really answer the question though. Sorry. Good luck.

I don't know what IED is, but I'm guessing that ODD is oppositional defient disorder. Which must be very upsetting and scary for everyone.

I've been through this with my son. As the family steps through the "evaluation" processes, you mostly learn what the child does NOT have. Eventually, you may or may not get a diagnosis and maybe even a reason why. But along the way you will learn what works and what doesn't work as far as how to help the child overcome the difficulties both at home and in school.

Getting an eval by a pediatric neurologist would be helpful - might be able to eliminate autism, pervasive developmental disorder, aspbergers, etc. Or you might confirm.

Geting an eval by a pediatric psychology is probably the most useful strategy. A psychology can help the family put an intervention plan together for at home as well as school.

I think that every child who is at risk of not being successfully ready for KG is eligible for evaluations/assessements through your local school district. Make contact with them and formally request a MultiFactor Evaluation or MFE. Don't let them put you off - insist. It is your right to request such an eval. You may or may not learn anything useful but it will be a start.

I found "The Out of Sync Child" by Carol Stock Kranowitz to be very helpful. Sensory issues can cause a child to be irritated and grumpy a great deal of the time. My child had sensory issues. When my son started talking he was finally able to tell us that the socks had lumps in them that HURT his feet, that the tags in his shirts were ripping his skin, that a light touch on the back of his neck made him feel like he was in danger.

Also "the Explosive Child" by Ross W Greene. I found the explosive child to be really great because for the first time I realized that certain behavior problems more resemble learning disabilities then purposefully defient opposition. Imagine if you were dropped off in France without knowing any French.. and not only would you not understand what people are telling you, but that they were angry and being mean to you. That is what it is like for a child who has no clue what is going on around him and what is being expected of him.

Also, "A Mind at a Time" by Mel Levine. This book was very useful as it covered details about how people learn differently and have strengths that can be leveraged to compensate for those areas not so strong.

I can tell you that no child WANTS to be a behavior problem or oppositional. Something is wrong. You are the grandparent and your support and encouragment for your grandson's parents is soooo important. Because it can be a long and difficult journey ahead for them as they begin searching for solutions that will help their son grow into a happy healthy and productive member of our society. These parents will have to be this child's advocate for many years - longer than typical kids. And these parents are going to need as many friends and family standing with them as is possible.

It was helpful for me during my journey to read as much as I could, ask lots of questions from the professionals who evaluated my son, document everything - get a stack of folders and keep everything organized. I poured everything into diagnosing and learning new strategies. Very exhausting. I wish my mom would have offered to take the kids for a weekend - even the difficult child - so that my husband and I could reconnect. Maybe you can do that for your grandson's parents. Offer them a break now and then so that they can recharge their batteries.

Good luck.

Thank you so much for the welcome and responding to my post. Much appreciated!
It just breaks my heart to see a 5yr old having such difficulties. But, as a mom and grammie...I will be there for the duration to help him and his mom thru all of this.

Have a great day and take care!

Thanks for your post "place"
Definitely a second opinion is in order. My daughter and I had already discussed that happening. Haven't talked with her yet about neurological workup. But I will this week

Take good care!

Hi Peanuts!

Thanks for taking time to read and post. You're guess on ODD is correct. IED is Intermittent Explosive Disorder.

It's definitely quite a process we are looking at. And I do appreciate your help, coming from a seasoned veteran.

My grandson was dx'ed by the school psychologist. They have been wonderful in accomodating Larz's issues and finding things that help him. They have kept my daughter informed daily and work with her to give Larz the best support and experiences they can. I believe they will now be testing for sensory issues. They do believe he has some problems there. He does not have ADD/ADHD.

We have a team meeting at the school on Friday. I live out of state and will be traveling there to attend. My daughter is strong and I'm so proud of how she is handling this, but I am worried for her and she is scared. She is a single mom, so she really has her plate full. I have been and will continue to support in every way I can.

Thanks for listing the books you found helpful. I will definitely look into them too.

Hope you don't mind if at some point I pick your brain about some issues.

Thanks so very much! Take good care

I'm going to agree heavily with peanut here. It is easy to make labels but we need to know what helps the child. I too have had experience with sensory integration issues with my youngest and it's amazing to learn what kinds of simple things we can do as adults to set up successful environments for these kids. Good luck.

Thanks wisewoman. You are absolutely right! I work with developmentally disabled folks so I know all too well the trial and error it takes to get things right.

Thanks for your imput

You are welcome to pick whats left of my brain !!! ha ha

I'm glad the school is already on board and is being helpful - that is wonderful. Your daughter is very lucky to have you so willing to help and be supportive.

I can tell you that it does get better and easier .. don't give up - that little guy needs everyone to do all they can.

The sensory interventions worked well for us. I put a small trampoline in the living room (my mom was aghast - oh well) and my son would bounce while talking - it helped ground him. And then we would count one - two -three - catch and I would through a soft ball to him and then he would throw it back. Somehow - this routine worked for him. And then whenever he would be really wild - not angry but just wild, I would direct him to the trampoline. After a while he would just go there by himself. My living room wasn't a great place to have company over, but it was a great place for my son. And that was what mattered. We also got a big thera ball and would roll the ball on my son's back for deep presure - which was calming for him. All these techniques we learned from an Occupational therapst who was trained with sensory integration intervention techniques.

My son liked to build tents or caves in the house. For some reason, it was comforting for him to burrow in. And so I allowed that because it was helpful for him. These kids will seek out their own comfort, sometimes they need us adults to help them find it and get there.

The pychologist helped us with positive behavior charts that really made a difference. For my son, getting a candy was a big deal and so we used that. Earn so many stickers at school for having safe hands & feet... get a sucker. and so on. Never waste a trip to the ice cream store - it is always a celebration for some accomplishment big or small.

Good luck with the IEP meeting at school. You might inquire about social skills training opportunities offered at school. Often, kids with behavior issues really benefit from having the social cues practiced and practiced and practiced. Better they practice in the safety of a social skills group led by a knowledgable speech language therapst or other trained adult than to try practicing on the playground.

yup - sensory issues are something aren't they. I've learned more about the construction of socks than I ever thought was possible. When JC Pennys stopped making the one kind of sock that my son could tolerate - I thought I was going to die. The sales person thought I was nuts. We now find the "right" socks at lands end. The toe seams cannot be at the end of the toes, they have to not exist at all or be over the top of the toes. And the underside that touches the skin has to be neatly bound - no straggler threads, lumps, or bunches.

Hi Peanuts!

I do so appreciate your time and effort! Sounds like you had quite a time with your guy. I'm so glad you were able to find things that helped him. I know it takes lots of work and patience. But don't they deserve all we can give them???

I won't ever give up on my grandson. He is just to precious to me. I am just amazed at how one minute he is absolutely wonderful...happy go lucky...laughing, playing, loving and the next minute it's like someone flipped a switch and turned him into an "evil twin". Don't get me wrong, I don't feel he is evil at all, I'm just using that term to explain what he's like.

Well, I'm totally exhausted now. Been a long day at work and got home late. Have more reading and printing to do. Must get to it so I can sleep before heading up north in the morning.

Thanks again dear! Take good care *hugsss*

oh my....poor fella really does have a problem with his socks I'll bet you were ready to scream when you couldn't find the right socks anymore. Was there anything you could do to help him with that issue aside from how the socks are produced? Gee, my heart just goes out to you and him....*hugsssss*

Actually, the sock issue has gotten better. I still look for socks that I know are more comfortable for him. It is just one less physical irritation that adds to his overall irritability.

He used to also not want to put his hands in mud, sand or touch clay. The OT worked with him on that issue by taking a backing dish filled with dry beans and then burying hard candy. My son had to "dig" with his fingers to get the candy. Sometimes the dish held sand. He now doesn't mind getting his hands dirty... and I sometimes can't believe I'm saying this, but we were all so thrilled when he walked around with dirty hands !! OT also helped him integrate sensory issues that made hair washing a nighmare. He now washes his own hair just fine.

For us, the hardest part was learning to pick your battles and to let lots of things go for another day as you worked on one or two issues at a time. And so I didn't make a big deal out of hair washing at every bath time - but we did a big celebration when he allowed his hair to be washed without a fuss. We went for ice cream. My son was so pleased with himself !

His pickyness about getting his hands in stuff impacted his school day in that KG does lots of art and play. And so the teachers would report that he was refusing to cooperate.. blah blah. And not only would he refuse to participate, he would explode.

I know what you mean about one minute your grandson being an angel and then the next... look out !! Over time you will learn what the triggers are and then the explosions won't seem so "out of the blue". And once you identify the triggers, then you can work on managing them to reduce the number and severity of blowups. Then you pick a few and work on integrating them. Some issues, like socks, may never integrate - but at least hopefully those triggers will not produce such an extreme reaction.

Your grandson is already ahead of the game since the school is helping out with the interventions. That is so great.

Hope your trip is save,

Hey peanuts best of luck can I offer you a hug?

sabau2 and Peanuts - I don't know what more I can do but to offer you both hugs.

It's wonderful to hear of your sons accomplishments! (and yours too ) Step by step, inch by inch...the only way to go!

The meeting yesterday went very well. Mom, Aunty and Grammie left feeling better about the situation. It was agreed upon that more than likely Larz is suffering from PTSD. They do not feel at this time that it is bi-polar or any other personality disorder. PTSD makes a whole lot of sense to me. The child has seen many unfortunate situations in his young life.

The school psychologist is AWESOME!! All of the other team members, and there are about 8 of them absolutely love Larz (he is a honey) and see such wonderful potential in him. They have agreed to have him attend full days instead of half days for the rest of the school year. In the past month they have seen progress in his ability to recover from outbursts more quickly and easily. This is such a wonderful sign!!
We are encouraged

When I get a few more minutes I will post more info. Right now my aunt is not feeling well and I need to tend to her needs. Thanks again for everything!

Thanks so much AngelGirl. Your support is very much appreciated

I'm very glad you had a successful meeting !!! And I hope your Aunt feels better soon.

Take care

Sure !! Thank you.

I'm glad that your meeting went very well and that you are receiving great support from the school.

Thank you AngelGirl