[pathway2FREEDOM]

Have some questions. Do narcissist personality run in families, either nuture or nature? And are narcissists vindictive, high drama and chaos, and pathological liars, in addition, to low/no empathy?

How do you calm down nars when they are in an unethical, vindictive phase? I am having a problem because they do not care if they are hurting you. I wonder if the derive enjoyment from it.

Help

[CANDC]

Narcissists tend to make victims and support other narcissists so it can run in families or associations of people.

Avoiding conflict with nars is the only way I have found to keep the peace which usually means not being in their presence when they are on a bad streak.

Here are articles that can shed more light.
Psych Central - Search results for Coping with narcissists

[marmaduke]

Originally Posted by pathway2FREEDOM

Have some questions. Do narcissist personality run in families, either nuture or nature? And are narcissists vindictive, high drama and chaos, and pathological liars, in addition, to low/no empathy?

How do you calm down nars when they are in an unethical, vindictive phase? I am having a problem because they do not care if they are hurting you. I wonder if the derive enjoyment from it.

Help

In my experience its nature, they are born that way an inherited trait. Wired differently.
IMO a problem with low activity of the Amygdala;

Shown to play a key role in the processing of emotions, the amygdala forms part of the limbic system.

My mother and sister both narcissists/sociopaths are pathological liars and both are aware of the hurt they cause, they enjoy it.
The best way to cope is to ignore, ignore, ignore their antics. Be calm and neutral as possible.
Or, even better, get as far away as you can!

[pathway2FREEDOM]

Unfortunately, I have been targeted by some nars. and their destructive crazy train. And it is looking like they are enjoying it quite of lot. What do I do? Empathy, rationale calm conversations, nothing is working. I am stuck dealing with them. I need some strategies to calm them down . I tried staying out of the way and letting them turn on each other too, but that is not working this time either.

Punch them and run away.

[DBTDiva]

Originally Posted by pathway2FREEDOM

Unfortunately, I have been targeted by some nars. and their destructive crazy train. And it is looking like they are enjoying it quite of lot. What do I do? Empathy, rationale calm conversations, nothing is working. I am stuck dealing with them. I need some strategies to calm them down . I tried staying out of the way and letting them turn on each other too, but that is not working this time either.

Stay out of the way as much as possible, have extremely strong boundaries, and don't let them have any information that they can exploit. Then figure out how to get out of the situation - if it's coworkers, change jobs; if it's family, greatly minimize time with them. My sister and my boyfriend's ex-wife both have NPD and my mom has narcissistic traits. My sister and I have zero contact; I greatly limit the contact with my mother and keep very very strong boundaries that I constantly remind her of; and I flatly refuse to interact with my boyfriend's ex-wife beyond saying "hello" and "drive safely."

[pathway2FREEDOM]

Originally Posted by DBTDiva

Stay out of the way as much as possible, have extremely strong boundaries, and don't let them have any information that they can exploit. Then figure out how to get out of the situation - if it's coworkers, change jobs; if it's family, greatly minimize time with them. My sister and my boyfriend's ex-wife both have NPD and my mom has narcissistic traits. My sister and I have zero contact; I greatly limit the contact with my mother and keep very very strong boundaries that I constantly remind her of; and I flatly refuse to interact with my boyfriend's ex-wife beyond saying "hello" and "drive safely."

They keep violating my boundaries and finding other people to give them permission to Bat ***** Crazy (BSC) and unethical things. I really do not get it. They seem to enjoy it. I am trying to get away. It is a complete mess. Thanks for responding! It's been helpful just hearing that others know what I am going through, though I am sorry you are having this experience. It is just BSC, isn't it?

[DBTDiva]

Originally Posted by pathway2FREEDOM

They keep violating my boundaries and finding other people to give them permission to Bat ***** Crazy (BSC) and unethical things. I really do not get it. They seem to enjoy it. I am trying to get away. It is a complete mess. Thanks for responding! It's been helpful just hearing that others know what I am going through, though I am sorry you are having this experience. It is just BSC, isn't it?

Oh yeah, some people do enjoy it. It gives them feelings of superiority which feed the NPD and help to reinforce that they are better than others even though most have significant low self-esteem/self doubt. NPD is a contradiction in some ways. When they violate your boundaries, what do you do? If there's no consequences then boundaries are useless.

For example, my mother wanted to criticize my housekeeping, which she has always thought was not good enough. When she brought it up, I said "I am not going to discuss that with you." When she refused to drop it, I said "I've told you I will not discuss this. If you won't drop it, I will have to leave." She did drop it but if she hadn't, I would have left. She said I "threatened" her but that's just the logical consequence of the boundary. If she refuses to respect me and my decision to not discuss my housekeeping with her, I can't stop her from harping on me but I can remove myself so I'm not there to listen to her criticism. It's taken me almost 34 years to set boundaries and reinforce consequences but it can be done!! It's just hard and they will make YOU feel like the bad person for doing it.

[pathway2FREEDOM]

Originally Posted by DBTDiva

Oh yeah, some people do enjoy it. It gives them feelings of superiority which feed the NPD and help to reinforce that they are better than others even though most have significant low self-esteem/self doubt. NPD is a contradiction in some ways. When they violate your boundaries, what do you do? If there's no consequences then boundaries are useless.

For example, my mother wanted to criticize my housekeeping, which she has always thought was not good enough. When she brought it up, I said "I am not going to discuss that with you." When she refused to drop it, I said "I've told you I will not discuss this. If you won't drop it, I will have to leave." She did drop it but if she hadn't, I would have left. She said I "threatened" her but that's just the logical consequence of the boundary. If she refuses to respect me and my decision to not discuss my housekeeping with her, I can't stop her from harping on me but I can remove myself so I'm not there to listen to her criticism. It's taken me almost 34 years to set boundaries and reinforce consequences but it can be done!! It's just hard and they will make YOU feel like the bad person for doing it.

They do not respect boundaries or anything, if I say no. They do something worse, plus they would plan and launch a vindictive plot to get me back at me to hurt me, which is what I am involve with now. It's the worse that it has ever been because I have been standing up for myself. They have not cycled down from the rage/vindictiveness. I really beginning to think they have anti-social personality and not nar. Do nars cycle into a zero-empathy, bat ***** phase and stay there for months?

[DBTDiva]

Originally Posted by pathway2FREEDOM

They do not respect boundaries or anything, if I say no. They do something worse, plus they would plan and launch a vindictive plot to get me back at me to hurt me, which is what I am involve with now. It's the worse that it has ever been because I have been standing up for myself. They have not cycled down from the rage/vindictiveness. I really beginning to think they have anti-social personality and not nar. Do nars cycle into a zero-empathy, bat ***** phase and stay there for months?

Difficulty empathizing is associated with several personality disorders. It can be really difficult to distinguish one from the other, especially because no one can diagnose someone just based on what you post on a message board. Ultimately it doesn't matter what their diagnosis is, what's important is protecting yourself as much as possible.

I do the same thing with boundaries. I tell my family I am kicking them out of my house, or leaving if they efff with me.

And then I make sure to carry it out.

[pathway2FREEDOM]

Originally Posted by DBTDiva

Difficulty empathizing is associated with several personality disorders. It can be really difficult to distinguish one from the other, especially because no one can diagnose someone just based on what you post on a message board. Ultimately it doesn't matter what their diagnosis is, what's important is protecting yourself as much as possible.

That is the problem isn't it? How can you protect yourself against people who enjoy hurting you? Things have gotten way out of control with them and unfortunately I am trapped. I just need a way to appeal to them to calm them down, but they don't. It is way out of control.

[DBTDiva]

Originally Posted by pathway2FREEDOM

That is the problem isn't it? How can you protect yourself against people who enjoy hurting you? Things have gotten way out of control with them and unfortunately I am trapped. I just need a way to appeal to them to calm them down, but they don't. It is way out of control.

The problem is that appealing to them won't work. It's only if it becomes a problem for them that they will admit they have a problem at all. I think the only reason my bf was open to the diagnosis for NPD was that his life was so out of control that he was suicidal and was willing to do literally whatever it took to not have to feel that hopeless anymore. My mom and sis will NEVER ever ever admit they have problems. Someone else is always the bad person.

I think my mom has decided not to have any sort of relationship with me yesterday and I'm at the point where I'm fine with that. She sent me a really dramatic "I'm your victim" post about "why do you hate me?" and then when I said because I won't sit by and take your criticisms anymore and I'm also not going to feel guilty for not allowing you to emotionally abuse me anymore; once I said that she completely changed and was like "Look little girl (I'm 35) I won't change to accomodate you, I won't walk on eggshells trying not to hurt your feelings so if you don't toughen up we just will not get to have a relationship." I wanted to say: LMFAO is that supposed to be an incentive???? Because it's not a threat... Anyway, sorry to make it about my situation! My point is, that they will never stop out of caring for your feelings/wellbeing.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by DBTDiva

The problem is that appealing to them won't work. It's only if it becomes a problem for them that they will admit they have a problem at all. I think the only reason my bf was open to the diagnosis for NPD was that his life was so out of control that he was suicidal and was willing to do literally whatever it took to not have to feel that hopeless anymore. My mom and sis will NEVER ever ever admit they have problems. Someone else is always the bad person.

As a Narcissist I will say that this is true. I had to hit rock bottom in a pretty spectacular fashion before I was able to admit that there was any sort of issue at all. I still have major issues with admitting that anything is wrong, but thankfully I have a therapist that can handle that. I am not very open about myself, that is really why therapy has been so difficult for me... I just don't open up because why would I talk about things that I don't see as issues? And as for personal details about my life, I keep those very close to the vest as it were. I'm just one Narcissist obviously I cannot speak for all of them but that's a little peek into how it worked for me as far as gaining insight and such.

[DBTDiva]

Originally Posted by Atypical_Disaster

As a Narcissist I will say that this is true. I had to hit rock bottom in a pretty spectacular fashion before I was able to admit that there was any sort of issue at all. I still have major issues with admitting that anything is wrong, but thankfully I have a therapist that can handle that. I am not very open about myself, that is really why therapy has been so difficult for me... I just don't open up because why would I talk about things that I don't see as issues? And as for personal details about my life, I keep those very close to the vest as it were. I'm just one Narcissist obviously I cannot speak for all of them but that's a little peek into how it worked for me as far as gaining insight and such.

I think that is what is often misunderstood about all PDs - people think that we choose to act a certain way and don't care about other people. Often times it's because while problematic behavior is really obvious to everyone around us, we genuinely do not see a problem. I know that when I was having BPD meltdowns all the time I truly thought the problem was whichever partner was "making" me feel abandoned. Some people don't have the insight to ever see that there is something going on with them not every other person in their life.

[pathway2FREEDOM]

Originally Posted by DBTDiva

The problem is that appealing to them won't work. It's only if it becomes a problem for them that they will admit they have a problem at all. I think the only reason my bf was open to the diagnosis for NPD was that his life was so out of control that he was suicidal and was willing to do literally whatever it took to not have to feel that hopeless anymore. My mom and sis will NEVER ever ever admit they have problems. Someone else is always the bad person.

I think my mom has decided not to have any sort of relationship with me yesterday and I'm at the point where I'm fine with that. She sent me a really dramatic "I'm your victim" post about "why do you hate me?" and then when I said because I won't sit by and take your criticisms anymore and I'm also not going to feel guilty for not allowing you to emotionally abuse me anymore; once I said that she completely changed and was like "Look little girl (I'm 35) I won't change to accomodate you, I won't walk on eggshells trying not to hurt your feelings so if you don't toughen up we just will not get to have a relationship." I wanted to say: LMFAO is that supposed to be an incentive???? Because it's not a threat... Anyway, sorry to make it about my situation! My point is, that they will never stop out of caring for your feelings/wellbeing.

This is actually helpful and I feel your aggravation and pain. I am in the same type of situation. Where there's unlimited abuse and psychological cruel games and I have to do anything they say (mom, and other relatives), "or else." The "or else" is cutting me off completely financially and I am sick right now and it the holidays of course. She and the people going along with it will get lots of expensive gifts from her this year.. It is beyond cruel and it very soul crushing and sickening. I really do not know what to do. She thinks her behavior is perfectly fine and I am demonic. Yes, she has used that word. And ,of course, there is that smear campaign. I hope she calms down so. But to be honest, I think she drunk on the power of the abuse, lies and cruelty. I don't know. I am crying.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by DBTDiva

I think that is what is often misunderstood about all PDs - people think that we choose to act a certain way and don't care about other people. Often times it's because while problematic behavior is really obvious to everyone around us, we genuinely do not see a problem. I know that when I was having BPD meltdowns all the time I truly thought the problem was whichever partner was "making" me feel abandoned. Some people don't have the insight to ever see that there is something going on with them not every other person in their life.

Correct. For most of my life I never thought anything about my personality was at all problematic. It has only been within the past two years that I've gained any insight at all about it. What has helped me, as a Narcissist, was to have the facts pointed out that while I didn't see it, many of my behaviors were harming me. I know of course that this is naturally still selfish, but I wanted to change my problematic behaviors for my own good, that has been the only way to reach me at all. Even now, I struggle with denial... I get insight in flashes that last longer than they once did. I figure in time this will only continue to improve, even if I'm still being "evil" in everyone else's eyes for not caring about anyone else except myself.

[pathway2FREEDOM]

Originally Posted by Atypical_Disaster

Correct. For most of my life I never thought anything about my personality was at all problematic. It has only been within the past two years that I've gained any insight at all about it. What has helped me, as a Narcissist, was to have the facts pointed out that while I didn't see it, many of my behaviors were harming me. I know of course that this is naturally still selfish, but I wanted to change my problematic behaviors for my own good, that has been the only way to reach me at all. Even now, I struggle with denial... I get insight in flashes that last longer than they once did. I figure in time this will only continue to improve, even if I'm still being "evil" in everyone else's eyes for not caring about anyone else except myself.

Are there other nars in your family of orgin, or that you have chosen to be around one (partners, friends, etc). How do you think you became this way, nuture or nature/genetic?

Also, if you are in a cruel targeting phase against someone. How can the target get you to stop? I am getting vindictiveness and pathological lies. Lots of lies verbal abuse and games. What can be done? I cannot walk away, though I wish I could.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by pathway2FREEDOM

Are there other nars in your family of orgin, or that you have chosen to be around one (partners, friends, etc). How do you think you became this way, nuture or nature/genetic?

Also, if you are in a cruel targeting phase against someone. How can the target get you to stop? I am getting vindictiveness and pathological lies. Lots of lies verbal abuse and games. What can be done? I cannot walk away, though I wish I could.

My family is full of Narcissists, yes. I have one Narcissist that is a good friend of mine, but by and large I don't tend to get along well with other Narcissists, he's an exception to my rule and he rubs that in often, it's a running joke. Lol.

For my case I think I am a product of nature, I have siblings and I'm the only Narcissist even though all of us were abused quite horrifically.

If by targeting phase you mean I have a bone to pick with someone usually the only way they can get me to stop is by admitting that I am correct/superior/and the like. If you can't get away from a Narcissist that means you have to pick your battles, ask yourself, "is this really the hill I want to die on?" and go from there.

[pathway2FREEDOM]

Originally Posted by Atypical_Disaster

My family is full of Narcissists, yes. I have one Narcissist that is a good friend of mine, but by and large I don't tend to get along well with other Narcissists, he's an exception to my rule and he rubs that in often, it's a running joke. Lol.

For my case I think I am a product of nature, I have siblings and I'm the only Narcissist even though all of us were abused quite horrifically.

If by targeting phase you mean I have a bone to pick with someone usually the only way they can get me to stop is by admitting that I am correct/superior/and the like. If you can't get away from a Narcissist that means you have to pick your battles, ask yourself, "is this really the hill I want to die on?" and go from there.

I am so sorry to hear about the horrible and traumatic childhood/life that you have had to endure. That is so very hard. I guess you become what you have to, to survive that. It not your fault. It a great sign isn't it that you recognize patterns in yourself/family/life and want to improve yourself and even help other people, like little anonymous me.

Question for you, do you lie often? If so, why? The nars in my life cannot tell the truth if their life depended on it, even if they were to win a billion. They just cannot tell the truth. They also plot and play mind games. Very low empathy.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by pathway2FREEDOM

I am so sorry to hear about the horrible and traumatic childhood/life that you have had to endure. That is so very hard. I guess you become what you have to, to survive that. It not your fault. It a great sign isn't it that you recognize patterns in yourself/family/life and want to improve yourself and even help other people, like little anonymous me.

Question for you, do you lie often? If so, why? The nars in my life cannot tell the truth if their life depended on it, even if they were to win a billion. They just cannot tell the truth. They also plot and play mind games. Very low empathy.

Thanks for the sympathy and all but I do not require it. You're damned right it's not my fault, my family is full of ****ers heh.

Do I lie? Yes, regularly. As for why, that's a good question... I don't really know because often times I'm not aware that I'm doing it. I've been trying to be more honest/forthcoming but it's not easy.

Mind games are Narcissists' bread and butter, it's true. Lacking empathy also comes with the territory. That's one thing I've never lied about, I tell people upfront that I'm not an empathetic person.

[pathway2FREEDOM]

Originally Posted by Atypical_Disaster

Thanks for the sympathy and all but I do not require it. You're damned right it's not my fault, my family is full of ****ers heh.

Do I lie? Yes, regularly. As for why, that's a good question... I don't really know because often times I'm not aware that I'm doing it. I've been trying to be more honest/forthcoming but it's not easy.

Mind games are Narcissists' bread and butter, it's true. Lacking empathy also comes with the territory. That's one thing I've never lied about, I tell people upfront that I'm not an empathetic person.

Well, i think you deserve empathy. everybody does. we are all human, in this world together, right? family sounds horrible, like mine. are u in therapy? does your therapist know you are a nar, and/or have low empathy? r are you able to hide that aspect of yourself? i mean how would somebody be able to tell you are a nar, if you do not say it yourself (even a mental health professional could be fooled).

thanks for your insight on this.

Originally Posted by Atypical_Disaster

My family is full of Narcissists, yes. I have one Narcissist that is a good friend of mine, but by and large I don't tend to get along well with other Narcissists, he's an exception to my rule and he rubs that in often, it's a running joke. Lol.

For my case I think I am a product of nature, I have siblings and I'm the only Narcissist even though all of us were abused quite horrifically.

If by targeting phase you mean I have a bone to pick with someone usually the only way they can get me to stop is by admitting that I am correct/superior/and the like. If you can't get away from a Narcissist that means you have to pick your battles, ask yourself, "is this really the hill I want to die on?" and go from there.

It better be me your speaking of!!!!! Of course it is ha ha ha ha ha.if your surrounded by narcs then there is a reason for that. Our issues that we don't see it as one, therefore the game is reality to "us". May be hard to understand this but it is what it is!!

And take it easy with the strokes to a narcissist as we never seek your "beliefs" in what you feel we should get from others!!!! We already know what we expect, even as screwed up as it may be!!!

Look back to my response. Punch and run away.