Can a NARCISSTIC PERSON CHANGE...LONG???

Hate to say this to you....my therapist will not even see my husband who is basically in denial he is an "N" in the first place because he will get defensive and he will always be right. Nothing is an "N"'s fault. It is everybody else and everyone around that person. Everyone else has to change to fit into the "N"'s life. No matter how much you love this man and he is the father and all that; haven't you been through enough. You are divorced, you work hard, you always do what you need to do. You don't need to carry him around. Narcissists are generally not trustworthy and go back on what they say all the time. They will convince you they never said certain things. Basically, they manipulate each and every situation with specific planning. A narcissits rarely does anything impulsively. Though my husband is not a job hopper, he has made foreman at his job and acts above all else. This is the perfect job for my nacissist. He is in control of others and has others looking up to him. He is one way at work and a different way at home. Girl, don't get back together with him. There are other fish in the sea. He can still be a father. But you can be you. You have it all together, don't let anybody take that from you. I am sorry to sound like the grim reaper, but I live this everyday, but with 5 kids, mine, his and ours, it isn't so easy to just pack up and go. There are lies upon lies and you may have a good 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, but they always go back to the ugly person.

I do hope you do some serious soul searching before you take this man back for your daughter's and your sakes. Don't accept, I'll go to counselling if you take me back; bologna!!! He should want to go to counselling to GET YOU BACK!!!

Sorry to be so pessimistic but I would rather be truthful and honest, I don't sugarcoat.
Katie Scarlett

Katie, too late he has been living in my home for two months now...and no he did not do anything he said he would although he is still looking for a job. You are right in regards to the type of personality that he has, he can't keep a job because he wants to be the boss and he hates taking orders from people because of course he knows it all!

That said, I have discovered recently that there are real issues that I still have to deal with myself. So I've decided to work on those issues while he is around...mostly my rage and anger, social anxiety, and ptsd. I have got to be able to manage these so that I can move forward in my life...or at least be able to put my dd first! Whether or not it is with or without him is not important at this point! I've got to get myself healthier...for him...as you said he has to acknowledge that a problem exists first and for him he doesn't have a problem it is, of course, all me!

TJ

Now this is the key to you personal freedom!!! Well done..expecting our life to change on the premise someone else will change is about as helpful as watching paint dry!!! Good for you!

Good for you! seeing the need to work on your 'self' before trying to get your N. to recognize his behavior is toxic.

But as I look back on my 2 years of HELL with ex#3, I would not have been able to work on 'me' because he'd ridicule me, taunt me to fits of anger, deny conversations ever happened (leaving me paranoid), and be obstinate in EVERY situation, no matter how small, if he were not to get his way.

How can you have healing for YOU in this atmosphere? How can you practice the good habits you need, when he sees you working on YOU - which will make his inadequacies stand out? He won't let you be more 'well' than him - you know that. N.'s are real good at sabotage.

Just thought I'd throw this out there for you to store in the back of your mind for later.


VoN

Thanks Mouse for the support... Actually I can't take credit for seeing those faults, I have to thank Sannah for forcing me to take a close look at myself which has lead to these revelations within the past couple of weeks. In my own head, it was everyone else's fault...and I was just the victim!

While I understand and feel your pain with your ex...mine is a little bit more different... However, he is very manipulative in his own way. He, however, is much more subtle about it...no anger...no rage...just smooth talking all about the importanace of families working together, being together, loving one another because that is all he wants...before you know it he's got you thinking that everything is your fault and perhaps you are just overly sensitive....hah! Hey I know his game...and even though he is living with me....there are boundaries that I have set that keep me from going over the edge... What as dichotomy (sp), on one hand you speak about family and working together, supporting each other, but on the other hand you take your sweet time getting a job! Oh how you just love your family....

Yes, I know N's are good at sabotage, but I have a good T that keeps me on point and I see her every week. The things that I have come to understand within the last couple of weeks, truly have been eye opening. That said, I know although he says he wants me to get better, he knows that if I were better then I wouldn't need him around and, therefore, he would be out!

Thanks for your insight...

TJ

Yes, some narcissists are drawn into sociopathy, some are not. If you consider sociopathy to be sufferers of anti-social personality disorder, then I think I do have that (already satisfy conduct disorder and the other requirements). However, aren't narcissists like sociopaths in a few respects (I realize if you have NPD, you're not automatically a sociopath but they do have similarities), such as manipulation of people (i.e. how I view a person vs how a non-NPD and non-sociopath views a person), unable to recognize/understand feelings in others, no guilt/remorse for anything you do, not caring a single bit about anyone else (i.e. if some kid near where I live dies, I honestly couldn't care less about them, depending if I'm in an even more pissed-off mood I might purposely beat his image down), and the list goes on.

I don't know of many NPD's or APD's (anti-social personality disorders [getting too tired to bother to type out sociopaths all the time and yes I know these aren't entirely the same but pretend for this post they are]) that actually want to change. Do I? No. I go to the therapy sessions for the other disorders but of course they see this one as a large problem also. I've been in this therapy thing for a few months or so and no change at all.

As with any personality (disordered or not), it's something that's been with you for so long. With something like NPD, each time something is favourable to it, the personality gets compounded more and more. I used to do some manipulation when I was very young (and also accumulated my nice little list of crimes) and each time the results are good, you want to keep doing it. It's like a large piece of wood nailed to a wall with lousy nails. Put in one nail and the board stays for a bit then falls but put in more and more and it stays but then cant be pulled off easily or not at all. This is what happens with people's personalities.

skeeweeaka, manipulation doesn't need anger for it to happen. In fact, if you're to manipulate a random person (i.e. hot girl or guy), anger isn't the way to reel them in. Once they're reeled in to a point of them being yours, then anger can occur more and more (until they're useless and you discard them and grab someone else or reuse the previous person). N-rage won't occur during manipulation unless the narc. feels threatened enough to crush you in order to bring themselves up.

Hi, I am just kidding, but I have read shorter books. lol Anyhow I don't know a lot and don't want to steer you the wrong way. I have afreind named Kathy who is by-polar and narcassic.(notspelled wright) any how she would never change. She thinks she is the @hit and is not affaired totell you so. Her whole being would have to change. Her just average, nope she wouldn't admitt that. I think a zebra is always a zebra. Take care and watch your heart. Greg