PTSD???

Here's a question : For as long as I can remember, whenever I have a conversation / interaction with someone, I nearly ALWAYS have this happen. On the one hand I'm thinking about what I'm saying - the contect of the conversation. But UNDERNEATH the words that are being spoken, there is a part of me that is gauging the possible reactions by the other person to what I'm saying. It's like the scarry music that plays behind the scenes in a movie. And when the conversation / interaction is over I spend countless amounts energy analysing what the other's reaction might be - usually thinking they will misunderstand & think "less" of me. Or that I've somehow insulted them. Or that what I've said will be taken the wrong way.

As I said, this is AUTOMATIC whenever I interact with someone. From my wife to my kids to my friends - to my T - all the "safe" people in my life. And also with co-workers, clerks in grocery stores, tellers in the bank, next door neighbors...etc. It even goes as far as with other drivers on the road. (!) Automatic. Can be triggered by a LOOK - TONE OF VOICE - whatever. It's rare when I am with someone when this DOESN'T happen. Hell, I'm doing it now (!!!)

So the question is : Is this another symptom of PTSD? And - more importantly : Does anybody else do this???

As I said this has been around as long as I can remember & frankly is exhausting!!! And I'm getting a little tired of it.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Lavalamp

I don't know if it is a symptom of PTSD or not but I definitely echo your above statements...I so often just keep quiet to avoid a "possible" reaction only to have someone else say what I was thinking and it be totally fine. I often wish I could turn this second guessing myself off....Starting to do it some with my counselor but usually takes me half the session just to remember that I trust her to keep caring no matter what I say...I guess I just have to keep doing that forever until I remember at first moment.

I do a lot of second guessing when I speak, in fact I prefer to remain silent most of the time. I think it relates to PTSD because we were trained to believe that what we spoke was wrong and I personally was raised with the "children should be seen and not heard" type of parents. So if as a child I was given the message to not speak and if I did speak there would be consequences or at the very least invalidation that would explain some of my fear of speaking now. Another aspect is that I always tried to be somewhat invisible, speaking would bring attention to my presence. And my final thought is that survivors of trauma often have low self-esteem which leads them to question everything and be concerned about others reactions, what others think of us, etc. I don't know if I really answered your question or not....but I do the "double-think" almost constantly...like 2 different worlds - one where I'm interacting with the current situation and the other one in my head.

Hi Lava,

Did you know that people talk to themselves 95% of the time. Some people talk in silence while others have outright conversations with themselves. My husband is the later of the two and he is his best listener. Often he is unaware of how much he does it, his thoughts are mostly outloud. Anyone who is around him while he is working, even in his sleep, begins to think that he really is addressing another person.

I have grown to accept this and understand it as he is an adamant problem solver and is thinking about all the different ways of expressing a problem or even an emotion.

I myself often talk thurout a day as I am always thinking and problem solving. It is a way of not only thinking but letting some of your thought and emotions out and using both senses to address the issue. I wonder how many people get pulled over because it may appear that they are talking on a cell phone when they aren't. LOL

When we address another person it is normal for the brain to background think as we are trying to address another person in a way that they will comprehend our message.

When children are small, they almost do it right away as soon as they begin to verbalize and they can even babble out loud at first. I could always tell when my daughter would wake up in her crib as I could hear her discussing or verbalizing about the things that were placed in her crib. As a matter of fact, I had a big teddy bear face at the head of her crib and she would always talk to it, even in a babble when she woke up.

And, that carries on as children grow and seem to have a secret invisible friend, when actually they are doing the same as grownups do in that they feel a need to express their thoughts and try them out in a verbal manner.

Relax, it is a part of being human and having thoughts and trying to express them, not only for others but also for yourself. Did I say what I mean, did it come out right, is there another way I can express it?
I will bet the Benjamin Franklin talked out loud all the time as he was experimenting with ideas. I wonder how many times Thomas Jefferson talked about the ideas that he wanted to end up on a paper as he was trying to write some of the Constitution. And, even more, when the Bible was written, I can imagine how much chatter went into that.

I would not stress about verbalizing and thinking and even questioning at the same time. Most people do it. You are just wondering if you are normal because you are addressing abnormal issues in your past. Even back then your brain was trying to address what was going on. But, really it is just a normal way of processing thoughts and verbalization. There are different ways of expressing issues and the brain can pick one and may be considering others as well. I would not worry about it Lava.

Hope this helps,

Open Eyes

I over analyze too. Sometimes before I say something, sometimes after. I often times go the silent route if I think I've said too many things and I don't like the way they came out. Like the sentence I just typed.

As far as the talking to myself - that's pretty much constant - years ago I was able to stop it and I think eventually I'll be able to again. But, right now I just ramble on. Now that I think about it, I really don't talk to myself. I talk to other people they just aren't with me at the time.

OK. I think it's silent time now.....

CSC : You nailed it. Calling it "double thinking" is perfect. And I tend to agree - now that I think about it - that it's no doubt due to constantly being told to shut up as a kid. Kids were certainly to be seen and not heard in my household.

Quick example : When I was little we had a trailer at the beach. Soon after we bought it all the water pipes broke. One morning we all woke up to about 6 inches of water on the floor throughout. So Dad gets a guy to come over and look at it to get an estimate. Before the guy gets there Dad is ranting about the thousands of dollars it's gonna take to fix this. So the guy comes over and gives him a price that was considerately lower than what Dad expected. When the guy leaves I say to my Dad : "That is cheat." I just wanted to be a part of the topic - figuring Dad would be in a good mood since it wasn't gonna cost him as much as he thought...

The next thing I knew I'm airborne. Got thrown across the room. Slammed against the far wall. Dad is ranting that - since the trailer walls are so thin - the guy would have heard me and will end up charging him more than he was quoted... I was about 5.

That's a pretty typical story. I guess years of that WILL convince you to be a little "gun shy" and watch what you say. And wonder what others' reactions might be.

I hadn't thought of that in years... Came to me after reading your post CSC. I guess "thanks" are in order... It's ok. Gotta get these stories out - somewhere.

Where once I might have felt the painful memories / feelings of that - and so many other events - now when I recall them there's just sadness. I don't think they had any idea how badly they screwed us up.

Anyway, nice to know that whatever I bring to the table (so far anyway) there's seems to be somebody else who experiences it too. "Normalizing" my T calls it. Nice.

Lavalamp

You might wanna look up terms hypervigilance and hyperarousal in relation to PTSD. I get hypervigilant and generally can relate to that feeling of being 'on guard' and needing to expand my awareness for cues 'just in case', so that I can be ready before things start going wrong. When I am feeling poorer this can get to a level of bordering on suspiciousness and anticipating the worst in everything, misreading people quickly and anticipating negativity where there is none (or where positive stuff is lacking). Very draining and very hard to stop even when I feel sick of it.

LOL!! Yep. That's me. Man, I'm continually amazed that it "ain't just me."

My boss will come into the office in the morning with a sour expression on her face & I'll run & hide. Just in case it might have something to do with me... Embarassing to admit that - I mean I AM supposed to be a grown-up for God's sake - but it's true!!

Last nite my wife lost something having to do with make-up (no clue!) and was stomping around - mad at herself for losing it - looking for it. I was real quiet for a long time. Until I thought the "coast was clear."

Maybe that's a product of PTSD - or maybe of being married for 25 years... Whatever - I just know I feel real uncomfortable around people who are upset. And have spent the better part of my life trying to not be the one who upsets them.

Thanks guys. I love it when I can get on here & not feel so friggin DIFFERENT!

You know egoalien I am really glad you brought that up, especially using both of those words.

While I have addressed that fact that yes, the behavior is in fact normal.
The fact that you and Lava and others including me have experienced abuse as well, we do have an inner voice of hypervigillance.

In fact when I really think about it, one of things that I seem to need to do is find ways of proving the existance of abusive situations. Because I experienced abuse in a secuded fassion, many times having no witness, I do have developed ways of providing some sort of witness. I save telephone messages, and am on my second phone because the first one if full of some sort of attack or proof of what I am addressing.

I, infact have a great sense of relief that when I witnessed the dog chasing my horses and ponies and causing damage, my husband was with me. This was a profound experience for me and the one time I experienced something bad happen, and was not alone. I hang on to that constantly and it is somewhat very validating for me. If I had been alone,
I would have been in great fear that all that I had seen would have been
misunderstood and invalidated by others especially the perpetrator.

I know that what I am dealing with now is still attached to old intrusions.
I am in a similar situation where it is a he said she said circumstance and
the damage is significant.

So, in many ways, I am currently fighting something now but also remembering similar situations in my past. So, in many ways I am in a battle of separating what is normal and the high level of hypervigilance that is also occurring.

I am trying very hard to stay grounded and every chance I get I do make efforts to move forward in a grounding state of mind.

At first I was so overwhelmed by not only grief and shock but an anger that completely depleated me to the point where I was so exhausted that I had no more energy to deal at all. So, I ended up going to the hospital, where, the anger was infact still very predominant and also, extremely misunderstood.

I have come to know on every level how destuctive the emotion of anger is and it is extremely draining. Every day I am tested in that very area and emotion as I am still seeing the damage that has been caused.

I am tapping on every possible strength within to keep anger at bay and move forward. I have to admit that it is a day to day struggle as I have to continue to deal with not only the damage but the ongoing expense and seeing the abuser ever single day, seemingly enjoying their life in a normal way. I am also in a legal battle that keeps pulling me into the damage and constantly addressing it and that too is extremely exhausting.

I really try to find strength in how long this process is taking and all I can say is that the time has been somewhat a friend in that it is allowing me to sort out and control the emotions. I now know that if everything had moved faster, I would probably have not held up.

I want to thank everyone for helping me, and giving me a reason to keep trying. Every little bit has helped, even the negative has given me a recognition of what I can not let out a reminder of how it will weaken my efforts to address my situation with more strength as I move thru it.

Thank you egoalien,

Open Eyes

Isn't it a relief to find out this club you never wanted to join has other members? It helps to normalize the abnormal I guess. Because really that's what we're trying to do...make sense of something that has no sense, right?!?!

Yes, CSC, it is great. To finally find - after all these years - that I'm not so different afterall. That there's a place where I fit in. Never had that - always a half a step off. Now I know why - and now I know I'm not the only one. I've always wanted to belong to a group that thought like I did - reacted like I did - had the same thoughts I have. And now I do! Didn't care much for the "entrance fee" but at least I found a place to belong.

ditto about the entrance fee!

Again so much of what goes through my head and my heart have been expressed here through all of you...I so often feel the outsider in everywhere....no one else thinking/reacting/behaving as I do...remembering that it is normal for what I've gone/been/had happen in my life and that I am not the only one is definitely one of the good things...Thanks PC friends!

I've been this kind of thing happen to me since I can remember , I'm 47 now . I've learned it will lead to panic attacks and if I continue to dwell on it my pain level from fibromyalgia will increase times 10 . I don't feel so odd now .

Hopeful : Good to hear from you. Yeah. I now know I'm not a "weirdo" who nobody wants around - I'm not much different than most and alot like those here. I just can't act like it's not there anymore.
Raven : It took me 54 years to finally start therapy and start to untangle my life. It's been a difficult, at times brutal, 3 years (I'm 57 now) but I'm just starting to get a peek at what freedom might be like. Gotta ways to go to be sure, but I'm chipping away...

The common denominator I see in all our stories is that we come from circumstances we had no control over and were not our fault. And we didn't deserve it! And now we're left with the mess to clean up. Isn't it nice we don't have to do it by ourselves anymore.