I keep having recurring angry thoughts. Not all of them are re-enactments of traumatic events. Rather, most of them are projections of former abusive co-workers and former friends (who hurt or disappointed me) turning on me or subverting what I happen to be doing. My emotions instantaneously get involved and I get very angry; sometimes my "fight or flight syndrome" kicks in too. Is this PTSD or a form of it? I am working with a T on these recurring thoughts but they are persistent and scary and emotionally tiring. I have been suffering from them for several years now.

Also, has anyone with PTSD or symptoms similar to those described above had any success with medications? If so, which ones? I have tried anti-d's but have not had much success with them except for them making me sleepy and tired and sexually non-functional. Granted, the extra sleep helps but they were no cure.

Many thanks for your help!

[Stoda]

I don't have a diagnosis of PTSD, though I believe I have it and working on getting a diagnosis/help. So I don't know how much weight what I have to say would hold.

First I would say to check with your t, to see what they think, and then maybe schedule an appointment with a pdoc to find out for sure.

To me it sounds like it could be an aspect of it. I've found myself getting enraged for absolutely no valid reason. Often that raged is aimed at particular people, although they usually aren't around when it's occuring (thankfully).

What's really strange to me is that I have difficulties getting angry and staying angry. I'll get angry for a short time, then find a reason why the situation is really my fault, or some way to excuse the other person. It's weird, I know.

Another thought is to look at the side effects of any medications you're on. Oddly enough, it could be a side effect of one of those. Anyway, good luck.

[Open Eyes]

Have you asked your therapist this question? PTSD can come from bullying in your past, it is a form of psychological stress that can collect in the brain over the years and cause your symptoms. And "Rage" is one of the symptoms of PTSD because of the daily triggers you may be experiencing that may be touching on that build up of stress and confusion that you may really not be consciously aware of.

In my own battle with PTSD I have become aware of the fact that on some level I had been struggling with it for a long time. I was managing it (unknowingly) and I had developed ways of working out the times when the emotional aspects of it had peaks and I struggled emotionally. But I did have a very traumatic experience that
completely exposed it and that experience left me with a substancial amout of damage to what I had created as my own personal safe haven in a way. It was an attack of the lifestyle I had built up full of years of slowly building a sort of big grounding method and personal safe place.

As I have been working through several layers of tramatic issues over many years that had built up and stored a lot of anxiety, fear, and emotional stress, I am slowly recognizing that even though I had thought I had coped, I actually didn't, I just surpressed.

To be honest, as I am really looking at how that happened, I have come to realize that I believe that many people have some form of PTSD they are dealing with and don't truely recognize it. And I don't think that it is a uncurable disease of some kind. It is by nature an anxiety diorder, but that disorder does carry different aspects of emotions that circle around the anxiety. And those emotions can include anger, rage, feeling aggitated, stressed, and even depressed. And another symptom that is a clue is a constant desire to revisit upsetting situations that took place in ones past. We can experience something and then, without truely recognizing it, attach it to other occassions in our past where we were presented with an atmosphere of some kind of situation/situations that caused us emotional stress.

The important way to treat PTSD is to seek guidance by a professional that can help you revisit those events and "Validate" the experience of emotions that resulted in those experiences. And in that "Validation" learn to find a true resolve to the emotions that were experienced and surpressed in those events. And that can be any past experiences where someone felt trapped or threatened on some level and that can include an enviornment where bullying was presented to a person, in a school, home, or workplace enviornment. And basically it is a constant intrusion on a personal sense of safety and contentment.

So, what you do in therapy and even on your own a little at a time is to finally address those events and recognize that yes, that really did happen, yes, it was a definite intrusion, yes, it was not your fault, and yes, it made you feel unsafe and confused and upset you.

When most people enter into therapy there is a great fear of revisiting these events and addressing the emotions that come out by the revisit. It is extremely important to understand that it is a "PAST" event and that you are finally going to let it come forward and "Validate it" and with help, learn to finally address and resolve those emotions. Every time you experience anything that is a reminder of that emotional experience where you were trapped, felt unsafe, and did not truely know what to do or how to resolve it, those emotions come forward and the "RAGE" is brought on by the anger of the entrapment and a strong desire to not want it to reoccur.

So, by getting therapy, you are undergoing ways to finally face those experiences and find ways to help yourself avoid being trapped in that way again. You will be slowly learning true "Coping Methods" and will finally be allowed to realize that you "DID" survive it and there can be better ways of looking at those uncomfortable situations and addressing the stress and loss of personal safety that occured with them.

It does take time, but it is very important to understand what you are facing and what your goal is.

You are not alone in experiencing these feelings, there is good support here and you can slowly overcome your past.

Open Eyes

[Open Eyes]

I just want to add here that it is not unusual to have feelings of guilt and responsibility when looking back on events that caused some kind of violation on a sense of personal safety and sense of well being.

It is important to understand that when you are looking back you can see the whole event and the outcome of that event. When the event actually occured you did not have that opportunity of knowing the end result. So you truely have to take that into strong consideration and make sure you realize that at that time you truely were taken by surprise and did not know the outcome of the offense and that you were going to be placed in a situation where something happened to you and you did not see it coming, or you were in a social situation where you were challenged and did not know how to truely respond in a way that secured your sense of personal safety.

You truely have to be willing to understand that when these events occurred you just did not have the capacity to understand and deal with them and that does not mean that you are now forever doomed a failure.

By allowing yourself to open up to your own personal insecurities in a safe atmosphere you will slowly begin to understand that you are not alone in facing this kind of insecurity and that you "CAN" slowly learn how to learn new ways of finding a new sense of security.

I want to welcome you to PC and let you know that you are truely not alone and "I BELIEVE YOU", "I BELIEVE THAT YOU EXPERIENCED SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT FAIR TO YOU AND YOU DID NOT DESERVE THAT EXPERIENCE" AND "YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN FEELING LOST, TROUBLED, AND INSECURE WITH YOURSELF".

Open Eyes

Many thanks Open Eyes and Stoda for your comments. Yes, I have discussed what is going on with my T several times. He has not given me a diagnosis but I have requested one multiple times. The T has advised that our sessions will eventually help me with these problems; I currently see the T three times a week because the problematic thoughts have me suffering from severe depression and contributed to the loss of my job. I need the extra visits because I am dealing with a lot of deep-seated issues, not just whatever form of PTSD I have.

The T has made me aware that abuse and neglect in my childhood and abuse in my adult life that continues in the present that I chose to ignore has been brewing in my subconscious for a while. I have been unhappy and frustrated for years. The PTSD-like symptoms are making my life unbearable. I keep hoping they will go away but they persist, even with the therapy. The T is optimistic that the thoughts will eventually lessen but I have yet to find that to be true.

My T does not prescribe medications. Has anyone had some relief from anti-d's or other meds? I had requested a mild sedative from my MD but she refused; my job might have been saved. Despite numerous attempts, I have not been able to make an appointment with a prescribing therapist - the waiting periods for appointments are often a month and many are not accepting new patients. It has been very very frustrating.

[WikidPissah]

mood stabilizers and anti anxiety meds have helped me with some of the ptsd symptoms. I still have a lot of rage though, it is unbearable at times but I have not acted on it or "let loose". I find an ativan somewhat helpful when I get a bad attack. I would set up a psychiatric appt now, even if it's a month away, this way a month from now you may have some answers.

Can your T help you find a prescriber?

[Open Eyes]

((((((unhappyguy)))))))

Oh, I can really relate to your struggle unhappyguy. I really think that you are dealing with PTSD the more you describe your symptoms. I can tell you I have been struggling too and I completely understand the loss of work. I have my own small business but this year I was so bad that I did not do very well at all. And there were days that were so bad that I just could not talk to anyone. I am very grateful that I had PC. I used PC alot to just read and post and draw on every positive thought and supportive suggestion I could think of. And it wasn't just for the other person because each question I answered I was also answering that question myself and reinforcing whatever coping methods I had used that were helpful. And I also read some of the other member's feedback from their T's that were really helpful to read and ponder.

I can also really relate to struggling with your therapist, I am not sure your therapist is picking up on your symptoms properly. I had that happen to me as well and I have since found that there are very few therapists around my area that truely specialize in the treatment of trauma and PTSD. I would think that NYC would have an abundance of therapists who specialize in that area, I could be wrong but that would seem a very likely place to have that condition flourish as it is such a high pressure cooker of an atmosphere.

Now I do know that there are specialists over the line in CT as I am not close to the line and in my searches I could see the concentration of PTSD therapists in different areas close to the city on the border of CT/NYC line. I would suggest you try to find a therapist really specializes in that treatment. It CAN make such a difference.

It took me several months to find a decent therapist in my area. It is really worth your time and investigation to make sure that you are receiving the right treatment.

I can tell you that I spoke to someone who specializes in the treatment of Trauma that doesn't practice anymore but has a job in overseeing different trauma treatment centers all over. And this person told me that what I had been doing on PC was good because using the frontal part of my brain was a really good way to help me in overcoming the parts of my brain that were presenting me with so many unwanted emotional and strong bouts with anxiety and then leaving me exhausted. The depression that accompanies PTSD is a bit different than other kinds depression as it comes from both psycholgical and physical exhaustion from enduring the waves of anxiety and emotions that result from PTSD.

Personally I have used clonazapam which is the generic form of Klonipin to help reduce the intrusive exhausting bouts with anxiety. But it is not a cure, all it does is address the anxiety and sleep issues and it has about a 12 hour life to it but I have noticed that after about 8 hours I begin to feel the anxiety rushing back into my body. I will warn you that at least for me when taking it at night, it does leave me feeling kind of hung over in the morning and it does effect short term memory. But I have been taking it for about 2 years and since I have been really working on my past and slowly dealing with it I have noticed a decrease in the anxiety activity that has been crippling me.

I know it seems like it will never end, but I am beginning to notice that I have been doing better as I have been slowly dealing with the past and how it has accumulated into this anxiety disorder. It is learning and knowing how it did accumulate and slowly working at it, the real healing begins and it does take time. It is very important to understand that it is a slow process and you can recover. I truely believe that. I think that to assume that you are going to be forever crippled by it would lend to continuing to contain the emotions and allowing them to keep causing an overwhelming effect. It is better to know and have the mind set that you can learn to overcome it.

I also wanted to add that it may not be such a bad thing that you have given up work and are now concentrating on dealing with this Beast as I call it. You really need to do that with PTSD.
It is better to face it without distractions and if you have a significant other I would strongly reccommend, if you get into a therapy where the therapist really knows your true diagnosis and what it means, have that person sit with the therapist an learn how to support you. It is incredibly important that your struggle is VALIDATED and YOU ARE BELIEVED because it is a hard diagnosis to understand even for yourself. And it can be impossible to explain how difficult it is to others. It is definitely not a change a thought move a muscle easy fix condition as most people seem to think it is that do not have any experience with it personally. I really want you to know your not alone, I understand the struggle, me too. And that was something I truely needed to hear myself.

Please do yourself a favor and get another opinion by a therapist who specializes in treating PTSD.

Remember we are always here for support.

Open Eyes

[Rose76]

The posts here have been interesting to me. The role of chronic bullying in eventually producing symptoms is something I hadn't thought about. I never considered myself "abused," but I did grow up in an atmosphere of intimidation that wasn't exactly normal. (No violence toward people, usually, but other kinds of violent displays, and a lot of recurrent threats like, "I'll take that door off the hinges." and major tantrum throwing that was frightening.)

Getting help is what is most important, even more important than the diagnosis. Regarding getting a diagnosis, I have noticed that members are sometimes waiting to get one from a T. Legally, most T's can not give you an actual real Diagnosis. (A T who is a clinical psychologist can.) Basically, the law says that only a doctor can diagnose. This is applied to the mind as well as the body. I was taught this in nursing school.

[(JD)]

Here's the current definition of PTSD. There is no other so named disorder at the present time, though I believe some are trying to change it so it includes such emotional upsets like from bullying. http://www.mental-health-today.com/ptsd/dsm.htm (Some changes such as combat PTSD, complex PTSD etc have been suggested.)

Perhaps your T is waiting to see if the newer names are added to the DSM and then will dx you? (Right now, unless it's been a life-threatening event where you feared for life, it's not "officially" PTSD.) I would trust the T in what he is doing on this.

It's never a good thing to diagnose (DX) oneself. It is good to get an idea of what it might be, and begin working on the solutions though, and seek out professional help. I think you've done a good thing to get into therapy. The sooner one seeks help, the easier and quicker therapy might be. Good wishes !

[Astridetal]

The discussion here is very interesting. I have a diagnosis of PTSD from childhood abuse, but my abuse was relatively mild (mostly emotional and some physical and indeed a lot of bullying). I seem to have read somewhere that even though PTSD is currently listed as ananxiety disorder, anger is more freuqnelty seen. So in that sense UnhappyGuy may be dealing with PTSD symptoms. (I think the story about anger in PTSD was somewhere here on PC a few years ago, but not sure if new items are archived.)

As for medications, I tak ean anti-depressant (Celexa) and an anti-psychotic (Abilify). The Abilify is for my irritability while the Celexa is for my anxiety. Both were prescribed before I was diagnosed with PTSD.

[tohelpafriend]

Great thread discussion on PTSD and its symptoms! One of you helped me unlock the fact that though I wasn't depressed anyone; this was the chief player...the repetitive angst of having the sub-conscious play over and over and over the places and people who threatened or repressed me; caused me to lose jobs; stole jobs from me; envied my creativity or appearance; all the snakes and toads in peoples' ugly personalities. A key word was mentioned, "resolved"; yet I doubt the trapped places or non-affirmations ever will get resolved. What I do resolve is to let no person ever hold sway over my mind, will or emotions ever again. Anger helps nothing. What has helped is starting grief counseling over many losses of the last 4 years; untaken vacations; unfinished degrees because I finally recognized, in my case, it wasn't the PTSD (I know of now) which thwarted my progress but the unresolved grief, not knowing the tools which fueled the depression and the counselor pointed out that a part of me which hadn't worked through all the stages of grief (with time periods overlapping, so I have to keep a notebook for each loss); had stopped me from moving forward. This may sound simplistic to some, but grief can snuff out the joy of living and we have to work through it. Oddly enough, over the past 5 years of counselling with a psychdoc, she not once tried to uncover the underlying issues of my "stuckness", or why I didn't take a vacation; always pushing it aside like it was just avoidance. The fight or flight unhappy guy speaks of was a symptom...a sentient soul with physical and psychological protective mechanisms in panic mode.
These are no small issues we confront. I appreciate the post about the definition of PTSD. All these posts and comments are excellent. I forgot to mention in 11/09 I had a panic attack from withdrawal from an anti-depressant and couldn't breathe on inhalation and realized I would die.
I calmed myself down, called the doc, drove to the ER with my dog. This was definitely a stressor to my physical being and a very real component to PTSD and the imagined fear of losing control.

[Irine]

The symptoms you describe can be also of Borderline Personality Disorder - especially the rage. It is also cause by abuse, problems in childhood etc... You may want to check that out...