[Call Me Chris]

I may have posted a thread here already..I don't know. Don't care to check. I don't know if I suffer from PTSD.. (I don't have a therapist, but I'm waiting to hear from one.) I went through a tornado a year ago. But I'm wondering if PTSD could be caused by being physically and mentally abused for a good 16+ years. My parents divorced because of it. I feel like I should be over the abuse, though. I still talk to my dad, see him every now and then. I work with him. He's okay now, although it's awkward to try and hold a conversation with him.

I'm always remembering these memories that I thought I have forgotten. Being bullied, things that were said to me, all of that. Whenever I get back from hanging out with a friend, I think of things that I said or did that sounded stupid and I feel embarrassed, stupid, and 'flinch' (not sure what word to use for it).

I'm tired of feeling like there's nothing left. Feeling empty. Isolating myself. I've lost most of my friends, I'm more distant with the few I have left. I feel so weak for posting this. I'm not in the army, I haven't seen anyone die. Why can't I get over it? I probably seem like I just want attention from all of my posts. Most of them have the same **** in them. I really don't know why. I don't know anything. Everyone would be better off without me around. Thats a fact. Don't bother replying, I know how stupid I sound.

[Open Eyes]

(((Call Me Chris))),

A lot of people that develope PTSD, that is not combat related get confused and tend to feel ashamed that they have PTSD. What you are saying in your thread here is very "common" to how people who develope PTSD talk. And what is also common is how people who suffer from PTSD need to repeat or talk about "how they struggle".

Yes, people who have experienced "being bullied" for a period of time can certainly develope PTSD. And it is common for these people to wonder about how well they interact, if they will say something wrong, and perhaps they are simply "unworthy".

Treatment for this is "very important" because "without" treatment, validation, comforting and support, the suffering person often continues with thoughts of self doubt and unworthiness, which ofcourse is not healthy, nor is it "the truth about how they should really feel".

Human beings are designed to seek acceptance, personal validation, comfort, and a sense of having permission to connect and be a part of groups of human beings, after all, it is how we survived from the beginning. However, we are "animals" and have charectoristics that are "basically primitive". If you observe animals in general, it is easy to see that they also vye for "control and higher position" in a group. Both males and females do this kind of behavior, that was meant to assure "survival of the fittest". However, it was also meant to hold off a male from mating "too early", as an older male is more "experienced" in protecting the group. So a young male learns he is not "ready" but after a time, they "do" try to challenge again. You can see this in many nature programs about animals of all kinds.

Stepping away from "your own persona" and "observing" what takes place with "human animals/primates" will show you that in every school, on every school bus, especially at the age of homonal developement that brings a human closer to being ready to "mate", you can observe behavior patterns that shows the males "trying to position themselves for "control"". It is part of the "nature" of our original design when a strong male needed to be in place to be able to fight and protect the "group".
And there is also a "primitive" signal that takes place that comes to a point of "submission" in order to allow for the best possible male to gain the position to defend that group. And in many "animal" groups the males that come of age to mate, if they cannot "dethrone" the existing male, they are cast from the group to begin the search for their own group.

Flash forward to present day, we have alot of human beings now, we have made many gains in our survival, yet we still carry our original "primitive" design. Today, we still like to see men challenge each other in all kinds of sports. We have "politicians" that we can "watch" display many techniques for "positioning" and control. Often, as we have seen in our human history, what appears as a "capable strong male" can actually lead to "destruction and poor living conditions for many human beings", yet if that male continues to maintain "control", often there can be a "blind following".

Understanding "human nature" and how that "affects you" will teach you that your "personal emotional challenge" "can" be overcome, you do not have to accept the "primitive" signals because often these signals are "obsolete" and "deceiving".
We have seen throughout history, individuals that are not "physically beefed up" to ready for a fight to preserve the group gain power anyway and make "better contributions". We have seen men that are more "intellectually" gifted that have made tremendous contributions to the human race in many ways.

You can slowly learn that "you do not have to accept the primitive messages" of others around you known as "bullies". Bullies do not necessarily make important contributions to society or mankind either. Bullies, are often "fragile" themselves and don't necessarily maintain a long lasting ability to "control" either.

Understanding that you "can" learn how to help yourself slowly gain a better understanding of your personal "confusion" that has left you struggling with PTSD symptoms, is important. You can gain a better sense of your own personal mental health, by learning how to develope better "self talk" as well as developing ways to learn how to better interact with less feelings of inadequacy that are mostly due to being bullied in your past.

You can spend the rest of your life being afraid of "bullies" or you can realize that these individuals will always exist because of our "primitive" design, but that doesn't mean they are "better than" or even "healthy for others to follow". You can choose to do what you are designed to do, step away from these bullies and set out on your own, develope yourself and establish your own group you can interact with in "healthier ways". And in doing so, you can actually "out grow" bullies and grow beyond them as is proven very possible in "all of nature".

Open Eyes

[avlady]

Believe it or not I was bulied in my whole family. My oldest sister of 11 kids taught the whole neighborhood and the rest of the family to act in derogitory ways to me. i felt bullied even before being social. it is painful, but the fact thaat i got over it as an adult, allows me to think less of what happened is even importnt.these other people don't even know how or why they were being so stupid to me, i knew in my heart not everyone is that way,because i saw other victims. AsI grew up, the picked on kids did so much better than the ones that weren't picked on.I was called a vegetable for 3 years after an accident i was in my sister would come up the stairs an yell how's the vegetable today??she taught the younger ones to say it too and before i knew it she had the whole family in an uproar,my brother locked me in a closet for several days at a time when the rest of the family was on vacation.I came out looking like a skeleton.i don't even know if anyone out there can even undertand this as i am typing this, as it gets me so upset. I've been waiting 20 years to let someone know as it sounds so unbelievable.

[Open Eyes]

(((avlady)),

Oh hun, I am so sorry you experienced that as a child, you are right, children don't understand this, even the ones that bully don't always know "why" they did it. However we can see how "primitive and driven it is even in "baby birds". It is not unusual to see certain babies become "aggressive" and push others out of the nest in order to get the best opportunity to "survive".

Children don't have the "adult" sense of "conscience" and many of their interactions can simply be "exploring" their abilites to see how much "control" they can have over not only themselves, but their environment and others. And even in a "family" we are looking at a "group" and in any group, there is often a goal to establish an "order" of authority. And the oldest child will often establish to the other children that they are the oldest and therefore have more authority. It is never a good idea to leave children alone with an older one "in charge", the truth is, they are simply not mature enough and that can result in having a child experience something like you are discribing. This was displayed in a book called "Lord of the Flies" that many of us read in school. This group of children left alone on an island ended up expressing "raw and primitive" instincts that excluded the experience of the developement of a mature mind capable of understanding "conscience" and "controling these primitive urges".

When working through the personal history that may include events that we now call "abuse" that might have been forced upon a child by another child inside or outside the family unit, it is always a challenge to recall these memories as an adult mind that is "more developed with the sense of right and wrong". Yes, we can clearly remember the feelings of "fear and lack of ability to defend ourselves at that early age", there can even be times where we allowed things to take place that as adults we know are "wrong". There will also be times that we can clearly see the unfairness of how we were treated as well, and it can be very hard for the adult mind to find a way to learn how to finally place these events in perspective and finally come to terms with "accepting" these experiences and "moving on with their lives". It is also difficult to recognize how these events affected the ways we adapted to life, often some of these "ways" we adapted included a sense of "low worth" and even "fearfulness" we never realized we adpated before.

We are born as "human beings" with certain needs from our parents that send us messages that give us permission to feel loved, appreciated, important,safe, and that we have our parents whole hearted blessing to "live and thrive". In many ways, all human beings are at the mercy of their parents ability to "know how to raise and understand the "real needs" of a human child to ensure that child will have the capacity to adapt and thrive.

There can be many different reasons for a parent's "lack of knowledge" or "ineffectiveness" in understanding the real needs or significance of what they must provide their children with to ensure the best possible "healthy" outcome. Parents are motivated by "cultural messages", their own education, sense of well being, and what they were taught growing up as well. The bottom line is "we are what we know".

When a child grows up, they learn to "accept" their family environment. Each child developes their own sense of "positon" in that family unit and they "adapt" to their lives according to the ongoing messages they receive within that family unit. All children "imprint" messages from their parents and even older "siblings". So, if a parent sends "unhealthy" messages, a child will "imprint these messages", and that is simply the way we are "designed" as "primates/animals/human beings within nature".

We "all" take whatever messages we have received and adapt them to how we live our lives, as well as how to best interact with our world and others around us. Unfortunately, not all these messages may be "healthy" messages. But because we are "just children" we grow to "believe them" and adapt to them.

For example, if we are raised by a parent that "survives and thrives by taking advantage of "help or aide from others" we learn to feel it is "ok" to do the same. What is also true is that if we are raised to believe that the most important thing is "possessions" then we begin to believe that our "possessions" are what bring us "safety and personal value". If a parent raises a child with their personal "expectations" of what that child "has to be", a child begins to "believe" that in order to have "value" they need to meet that "expectation". If a parent sends a child the messages that the "child is not important or has no real value", the child believes it.

The "healing" for someone who may have "unhealthy" messages that they "adapted to" comes from first "recognizing these unhealthy messages" and then to "slowly learn how to overcome them". Part of the process of learning how to overcome these "unhealthy" messages, it to understand that the parent/abuser was also most likely "a victim as well".

It is important to understand that the "process of healing" is not about "having to suffer with guilt or anger or fear", but more about finally learning why this happened, and how to finally be able to be "validated" with another person saying, Yes, that was wrong, unfair to you and all you did was your best to try to self protect and adapt in whatever way you could. If a human being receives "validation, comfort, and permission to finally "heal" and thrive inspite of however that person was hurt, humans are resiliant enough to gain the ability to "thrive" better.

The human brain is truely "amazing" and has shown us in so many ways how much it can provide us with the "wisdom" and "ability" to adapt to the challenges "human beings" address that may threaten their "survival".
There are thousands of books written by many different human beings that express many different ways these human beings learned about "surviving" and thriving and "reasoning with life".

When someone is "bullied" their ego is attacked and if they do not know how to "respond" to a bully they begin to withdraw and even experience a period of "believing they are somehow unworthy". If this happens to a child and they do not have anyone to "help them or stand up for them" they get "tramatized" and begin to think they are somehow "inadequate" and will not be "accepted by their piers". Often they are "afraid to tell a parent for fear the parent may make the situation worse for them somehow" and they are often left with becoming a "victim" as often "bullies" continue to pick on others they "know will not fight back" which gives them a "sense of power" that presents them with a kind of "high". If a child is never taught how to "respond" to this kind of treatment, they can carry this personal "trama" into their adulthood, not ever really understanding how to "address the bully effectively" or "why people bully" or how to "not be the victim of a bully". And that we do not have to allow ourselves to continue to feel that we are "less than" or "unworthy" if we are bullied.

Open Eyes

[hoozerob]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

(((avlady)),

Oh hun, I am so sorry you experienced that as a child, you are right, children don't understand this, even the ones that bully don't always know "why" they did it. However we can see how "primitive and driven it is even in "baby birds". It is not unusual to see certain babies become "aggressive" and push others out of the nest in order to get the best opportunity to "survive".

Children don't have the "adult" sense of "conscience" and many of their interactions can simply be "exploring" their abilites to see how much "control" they can have over not only themselves, but their environment and others. And even in a "family" we are looking at a "group" and in any group, there is often a goal to establish an "order" of authority. And the oldest child will often establish to the other children that they are the oldest and therefore have more authority. It is never a good idea to leave children alone with an older one "in charge", the truth is, they are simply not mature enough and that can result in having a child experience something like you are discribing. This was displayed in a book called "Lord of the Flies" that many of us read in school. This group of children left alone on an island ended up expressing "raw and primitive" instincts that excluded the experience of the developement of a mature mind capable of understanding "conscience" and "controling these primitive urges".

When working through the personal history that may include events that we now call "abuse" that might have been forced upon a child by another child inside or outside the family unit, it is always a challenge to recall these memories as an adult mind that is "more developed with the sense of right and wrong". Yes, we can clearly remember the feelings of "fear and lack of ability to defend ourselves at that early age", there can even be times where we allowed things to take place that as adults we know are "wrong". There will also be times that we can clearly see the unfairness of how we were treated as well, and it can be very hard for the adult mind to find a way to learn how to finally place these events in perspective and finally come to terms with "accepting" these experiences and "moving on with their lives". It is also difficult to recognize how these events affected the ways we adapted to life, often some of these "ways" we adapted included a sense of "low worth" and even "fearfulness" we never realized we adpated before.

We are born as "human beings" with certain needs from our parents that send us messages that give us permission to feel loved, appreciated, important,safe, and that we have our parents whole hearted blessing to "live and thrive". In many ways, all human beings are at the mercy of their parents ability to "know how to raise and understand the "real needs" of a human child to ensure that child will have the capacity to adapt and thrive.

There can be many different reasons for a parent's "lack of knowledge" or "ineffectiveness" in understanding the real needs or significance of what they must provide their children with to ensure the best possible "healthy" outcome. Parents are motivated by "cultural messages", their own education, sense of well being, and what they were taught growing up as well. The bottom line is "we are what we know".

When a child grows up, they learn to "accept" their family environment. Each child developes their own sense of "positon" in that family unit and they "adapt" to their lives according to the ongoing messages they receive within that family unit. All children "imprint" messages from their parents and even older "siblings". So, if a parent sends "unhealthy" messages, a child will "imprint these messages", and that is simply the way we are "designed" as "primates/animals/human beings within nature".

We "all" take whatever messages we have received and adapt them to how we live our lives, as well as how to best interact with our world and others around us. Unfortunately, not all these messages may be "healthy" messages. But because we are "just children" we grow to "believe them" and adapt to them.

For example, if we are raised by a parent that "survives and thrives by taking advantage of "help or aide from others" we learn to feel it is "ok" to do the same. What is also true is that if we are raised to believe that the most important thing is "possessions" then we begin to believe that our "possessions" are what bring us "safety and personal value". If a parent raises a child with their personal "expectations" of what that child "has to be", a child begins to "believe" that in order to have "value" they need to meet that "expectation". If a parent sends a child the messages that the "child is not important or has no real value", the child believes it.

The "healing" for someone who may have "unhealthy" messages that they "adapted to" comes from first "recognizing these unhealthy messages" and then to "slowly learn how to overcome them". Part of the process of learning how to overcome these "unhealthy" messages, it to understand that the parent/abuser was also most likely "a victim as well".

It is important to understand that the "process of healing" is not about "having to suffer with guilt or anger or fear", but more about finally learning why this happened, and how to finally be able to be "validated" with another person saying, Yes, that was wrong, unfair to you and all you did was your best to try to self protect and adapt in whatever way you could. If a human being receives "validation, comfort, and permission to finally "heal" and thrive inspite of however that person was hurt, humans are resiliant enough to gain the ability to "thrive" better.

The human brain is truely "amazing" and has shown us in so many ways how much it can provide us with the "wisdom" and "ability" to adapt to the challenges "human beings" address that may threaten their "survival".
There are thousands of books written by many different human beings that express many different ways these human beings learned about "surviving" and thriving and "reasoning with life".

When someone is "bullied" their ego is attacked and if they do not know how to "respond" to a bully they begin to withdraw and even experience a period of "believing they are somehow unworthy". If this happens to a child and they do not have anyone to "help them or stand up for them" they get "tramatized" and begin to think they are somehow "inadequate" and will not be "accepted by their piers". Often they are "afraid to tell a parent for fear the parent may make the situation worse for them somehow" and they are often left with becoming a "victim" as often "bullies" continue to pick on others they "know will not fight back" which gives them a "sense of power" that presents them with a kind of "high". If a child is never taught how to "respond" to this kind of treatment, they can carry this personal "trama" into their adulthood, not ever really understanding how to "address the bully effectively" or "why people bully" or how to "not be the victim of a bully". And that we do not have to allow ourselves to continue to feel that we are "less than" or "unworthy" if we are bullied.

Open Eyes

I can understand the bullying thing and carrying in to adulthood. I am almost 50 years old and people have bullied me since day one. Never ended after school. Went on into adulthood and continues to some degree. Doesn't help that I basically feel like the little troll that I have been treated as. Exact opposite of tall,dark,handsome,smart,ect. And having bipolar disorder,ADD,OCD, anxieties and more depression any more than bipolar. Worn out physically as well from the family biz which I feel I have been condemned to. Anyway. So I was bullied for my small stature, looks, mental slowness and quirkiness. I started thinking about suicide by the age of 16 and those thoughts never really let up, being that my emotional HELL never ended. If it isn't some doing something to me, my mind is doing the rest. I relive my tortures, over and over. Wonder what I could have done different or picture different scenarios to imagine a better outcome to might have been. I have lost everything I loved and been denied everything else. I missed out on what I wanted in my life. Not extraordinary things. A woman for me(the right one), career, home of my own. I have nothing now. GONE. And it's too late hope that my life will some day begin. Bullying can destroy and mental illness can finish the job.