[winter4me]

Do run! It is good therapy.

[MotownJohnny]

How I am feeling and thinking right now - I feel like the universe hates me, especially when lowlifes I have never even met mock me. Like I will never be able not to be ashamed any more.

[Open Eyes]

(((MowtownJohnny))),

Ok, you get very triggered when "low lifes" pick on you, think about what that really "is" to you. I have to work on these similar challenges too. In my opinion when it comes to you, it has to do with being powerless when your father (who also hurt you) made you upset and you didn't have a way to really "defend yourself or understand it, or even change it". So, when you come across these type of individuals it brings forward these very challenging things in your mind that have deeply affected you.

It really doesn't mean you are "unworthy" when it bothers you either, and it is sad to think that these type of people are out there in the world too. You are going to need "time" to find your way to slowly being able to "accept" this is there and even though it did make you feel "unsafe" in your childhood, you have still learned how to educate yourself and "thrive".

Actually, I recently had someone take something I said and put parts of it "out of context" in an effort to make it look dark or somehow "evil of me". It "did" surprise and trigger me and I had to "slowly get my mind out of that rut" and realize how this other person was seeing words out of context because of their situation and personal beliefs.

I have some "very bad" things that happened to me in my life where other people that were "not right, even an alcoholic" did this to me and it made me really struggle and even feel "very unsafe". Well, I cannot "change" that other person if they decide they have made their mind up to think something bad. No, all I can do is work on changing how I react to it and recognize why I get triggered by it.

Mowtown, the universe doesn't "hate you", it only feels that way because you could not stop this other person from reacting badly towards you. Believe me, you are not alone with this challenge. However, because you had been abused and hurt when you really didn't have a way to defend yourself, these challenges get "magnified" with the PTSD and tend to bring you down "harder" than others who experience these challenges and don't get as bothered.

You are always welcome to PM me and talk about these interactions and I will see if I can help you feel validated with these "triggers".

You "are" a good person, and you deserve to have someone who will listen and validate when you need it. I don't know where you are experiencing this, maybe you should consider disconnecting from it? I know that part of you is probably wanting to "challenge yourself" so you can learn how to overcome it somehow though too. I do that myself, and while I do get challenged and triggered, I also learn from it too. It is "human nature to want to do this", it seems to be how we learn to overcome and grow as a species.

Actually, I was watching an awesome new series on the History Channel last night about "how the earth made us" and there is so many things we do that is very hardwired in us because of how we had to "adapt" so we could survive.

There was a part that discussed "why" human beings can be nice to each other and yet "can" become violent too. It talked about how in Africa the two species of chimpanzees developed where one species were nonviolent and shared with each other, and the other species grew to fight each other for survival. It was really interesting to learn how Human beings carry this trait where we tend to "fight each other" verses survive by sharing. This special compared the Bonobo chimpanzee who a thrive on sharing verses other chimpanzees who are more apt to fight each other, as humans do.
It was very enlightening. Maybe you can see if you can catch a rerun of what was aired last night, it is definitely worth watching, because it focused on some genetic programing that all humans have and why. It is this kind of information that I find very helpful myself.

[MotownJohnny]

I'm watching Breaking Bad right now. I really identify with the character of Jesse - a guy from a home where parents put a lot of pressure on him and then pretty much abandoned him when he couldn't meet the father's impossible expectations. Not a bad guy. He has a conscience and, while he does some bad things, including committing a murder out of self-defense, he has morals, especially when it comes to kids. And he self-punishes for the things he feels are violations of his morality by substance abuse and depression.

The character of Walter is also very complex, he grows increasingly cold and unlikeable, and then at a point where you think the guy is evil, he does something noble, especially towards Jesse, who I think in some ways views Walter as a surrogate father figure.

Interesting show, it's a big morality play. I guess I relate because I feel like Jesse, a good guy trapped in a bad situation who doesn't always make the best decisions, but is trying to hold onto his humanity and sanity.

[JaneC]

Sorry you have been feeling down. I can empathise, glad to hear you are making plans for yourself.

[MotownJohnny]

Hey, all. I thought I better come back and post my updates, so you know I'm still alive and fighting. Good and bad has happened. First of all, even thought it sounds like some paranoid fantasy, I am now spitting mad over this cyberstalking situation. And, I am trying to do something about it. Sunshine is the best disinfectant. I posted in the general questions forum about contacting MH advocates and activists and also if possible any journalists that report on MH stigma and discrimination. I have been in contact with some of the other victims, one man is pursuing criminal action, he made a complaint to the Internet Criminal Communications Center, which is a joint project of the FBI and the Justice Department, and possible Commerce since it deals with economic fraud and theft online. I am going to do that, too. I also researched Michigan law, what they are doing is a felony here. So, next week, I have to summon all of my courage and go to my local police department and file a complaint. I hope the police don't think I am "nuts" or "psycho" -- I deserve the same consideration as any citizen, we'll see how they react. I intend to take documentation. I want to download or print, or both, the website posts. I don't know if I can get all of them, they have posted page after page after page -- it would be probably a hundred or more pages of printed documentation. But, it's important. It's also very painful to me.

These people are true sociopaths. Right now, they have a campaign to get me to commit suicide in a thread -- they are giving me tips on the best way to do it. Sick beyond belief.

IF anyone cares to see this, and IF they can be REALLY DISCRETE and careful, I will provide website links in a PM. Prepare to be shocked and disgusted if you go there.

So, it is triggering. I have had a couple of days down in the dumps, but I am determined NOT to let them hurt me to the point I spiral into the deeper depression.

The good - I had a great appointment with my Psychiatrist on Tuesday. Again, it confirms that I have found a terrific doctor who cares and who will genuinely help me in any way possible. She wants me to consider attending a therapy group specifically for "high functioning" individuals who work white collar jobs. We discussed self-stigma and general stigma, shame, and my warped belief that my C-PTSD is a profound character flaw and moral failure on my part. I told her I had to stop that, because it will destroy me, and she agreed. So, we discussed the medical model where, in reality, it's not a character flaw, it's a traumatic injury to the brain which throws your neurobiochemical system out of whack.

Prozac and Lamictal - staying the course for now at the current dosage.

Now, to tell you about Wednesday evening at the gym, and what happened between me and my personal trainer. I told him ahead of time I was super depressed and I just could NOT be around people upstairs in the club where it's crowded and noisy. So, we did what we do a lot, go outside behind the club, a nice place which borders on woodsy marshes. It was a nice night, cold, scudding low clouds but abundant patches of clear sky with stars. Windy, a little biting. Perfect to be outside. I told him it was "client's choice night" -- and that I wanted to skip the traditional workout and just walk and talk. So, we did, for the entire hour. And, I poured my heart out to him about a lot of things, NOT the stalking, that is too weird and also an unresolved situation. But a lot of other things. He knows pretty much all, my hospitalization, my suicide attempt, and he is the BEST. He is so non-judgmental and supportive. And kind, and brave, and funny. I told the kid last night he is in big trouble with me, because I'm like a tick, I latched on and won't let go. And that he is the second brother I never had that I always wanted - the first is my first trainer, who is now my friend even though he moved to another state, and we still stay in touch and are going to get together when he comes home to see his family at Thanksgiving/Hanukah (obviously, he's Jewish). He is my first brother now.

So, Will and I walked and talked about all kinds of things, my psych and my therapist appointments, my meds, all of this he knew, but we just talked and I let it spill out of me. Then I elaborated on my childhood, I never told him in a lot of detail, Wednesday he got detail. And, at one point, I broke down and began to sob. And, this rough and tough, muscle bound 25 year old kid put his arm around my shoulder, then hugged me, and held me for about 5 minutes while I cried my eyes out. It was one of the most profound moments of simple human kindness I have ever experienced. And, it confirms to me the vast majority of people are good, not evil.

So, I did something a little "good crazy" yesterday, because I had another session with him Thursday night (and yes, he put me through his usual grueling workout that left me exhausted and sore!). Including something that would have bothered me in the past, "suicides" - which are progressive back and forth sprints with, in his version, a number of body squats at each end, and, since the boy just LOVES to torture me, he conveniently put 4 30 lb weights at the pivot points, and made me also do overhead presses. He's just a prince, LOL. No, he's great.

So, back to the "good crazy" thing I did. I was so moved by him, I gave him an early Halloween present. Because we will continue to go outside if the weather isn't too horrible here in cold Michigan, I stopped at one of my favorite stores, REI (Recreational Equipment Incorporated), an outdoor sports outfitter (camping, hiking, cycling, skiing, snowboards, etc). With the intention of getting him a pair of Swany gloves, which are my favorites, extremely warm yet "moveable" instead of constricting. Well, I walked out of there with a complete winter hiking outfit - Salomon hiking boots, a coat, the gloves, a hat, socks. Um, I dropped .... $800. So, he kind of gave me just a little flak when I gave it to him last night, but I told him in no way was I above emotional blackmail, so if he didn't STFU and just say "thank you" I would walk and cancel my contract with him. He laughed a little, and then put on the gloves, coat, and hat and was really thrilled with it. My buddy, my pal, my friend, my brother. I love the kid, and I told him that, and said "right back at you".

So, that was awesome, and it made me feel a lot better. Which I do.

IF anyone cares to battle sociopathic bigots, I would love the help. I know it's not the purpose of this forum, and if this against rules I apologize to the moderators, and please delete. However, these people hate ALL of us, for no reason, and need to be stopped, and now.

[HealingNSuffering]

Well that was real nice of you Johnny.

My best advice to you is to stay away from these guys, on the internet, who you are referring to as "sociopaths" because I've seen this happen before, and they will win. They are extremely persistent, and the whole thing is a big joke to them. They will cyber bully every last drop of serotonin out of your head and send your system even more out of whack. I think you should just tell the police and call it a day.

There is no point in arguing with these people, they are trolls, there is a saying on the internet "don't feed the trolls" and people say that for a good reason. All you are doing by interacting with them, is giving them the attention they want, just like the bully, they are happy you are upset, and will continue pulling your chain until you do something ridiculous. Nothing you can say to them will hurt them, or get them back, or make them feel bad. If they are sociopaths, they would love for nothing more than for you to pull the trigger, that's why they are posting all that junk. I was strongly discourage anyone from interacting with these kind of people, especially if you have a mental disorder. They could make a NON depressed, traumatized, suicidal.

Take care Johnny

[MotownJohnny]

HNS, I am absolutely not interacting with them, just observing them behind the scenes and trying to get as much evidence as I can. Because they are vile. I know better than feed into their pathology.

[JaneC]

Glad to see you are still alive and kicking Johnny. I think you have thought this out thoroughly and congratulate you on taking a stand for what is right and decent. I wish you luck and hope thta justice is fair.

to you.

[HealingNSuffering]

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

HNS, I am absolutely not interacting with them, just observing them behind the scenes and trying to get as much evidence as I can. Because they are vile. I know better than feed into their pathology.

Think of it this way, I could observe racist internet boards talking trash about various ethnicity and religions, but what good does that do me? None, all it does is pumps up my adrenalin and makes me more angry, my blood pressure higher. There is no point in wasting time reading such nonsense because it doesn't feed me in anyway shape or form. I avoid that kind of hatred because it only makes me feel worse about myself, I would advise you to do the same. You are already hard on yourself as it is about your mental health problems, this is like being a deer and hanging out in the lions den with the cubs. Its dangerous, I think you should try to find better, more productive things to do distract yourself with. I wouldn't mess with them, its like trying to catch fugitives, and you are not a bounty hunter.

[MotownJohnny]

Originally Posted by HealingNSuffering

Think of it this way, I could observe racist internet boards talking trash about various ethnicity and religions, but what good does that do me? None, all it does is pumps up my adrenalin and makes me more angry, my blood pressure higher. There is no point in wasting time reading such nonsense because it doesn't feed me in anyway shape or form. I avoid that kind of hatred because it only makes me feel worse about myself, I would advise you to do the same. You are already hard on yourself as it is about your mental health problems, this is like being a deer and hanging out in the lions den with the cubs. Its dangerous, I think you should try to find better, more productive things to do distract yourself with. I wouldn't mess with them, its like trying to catch fugitives, and you are not a bounty hunter.

They shouldn't be allowed to get away with what they are doing. I don't know, I feel strongly about this. Anyone with any mental illness should feel strongly. Hate group. Only word for it.

[Open Eyes]

Mowtown,

I think it is good that you reported these "ill" people who are bent on "harming/hurting others". But please don't interact there anymore, these people "feed off of challenges and it's just a game to them, a sick game".

There are people who just do "not" understand MI, and they don't understand PTSD at all. People can just be so mean sometimes Mowtown, I have seen it over and over in my life enough that, while it is hard for me to understand it and accept it sometimes, it is just a reality that has always been there in human beings for some reason.

Someday, those who are studying the brain will figure out "why" certain people seem to need to do this.

So, report it, but stay away from these trolls, "Don't feed the trolls" as HealingNSuffering suggests.

Its ok to have political discussions, and even disagree, even passionately sometimes, but these people are looking for something very different, they just want to cyber bully for kicks.

((Hugs))
OE

[MotownJohnny]

I have never interacted in any way with them, and don't intend to in any way except through the filter of law enforcement and the legal system.

[JaneC]

I think what you are doing is great Johnny. I also caution on spending any time from now on reading on their horrid forum, you do not need that hun.

[MotownJohnny]

No, I don't need it. It stresses me to the max, makes me wish I had done myself in. But I have to. I need to document what they are doing to me and others. Some can take it to the police. My stomach aches and I am jumpy. Alone in the office today. So I
locked the door.

[Open Eyes]

(((Mowtown))),

I am sorry you are having a bad day today, I have had so many of them lately myself, so I know the challenge "well".

Just remember, these days do come and go, they do pass though, so talk to yourself, you are a good person, you just have experienced some "bad people" in your life. But Mowtown, you are not alone, and there "are" good people out there in the world, you being one of them.

I know about those feelings of "wishing not to be here somehow", but that's has nothing to do with "you" failing, you just need some time to get past these feelings.
Mowtown, you need to develop some personal "spiritualism" too. What "personal spiritualism" means is to "let go" of whatever you perceive as failure, and embrace the fact that you as a person will spend your time with "good intentions, kind thoughts for self, and others when you can". If you have "good intentions" then you are good, you are going to be "ok" and it is always important to "self care" when you need it, it's ok, it is right, do not "self punish" you do deserve to heal and "be".

(((Caring Hugs)))
OE

[MotownJohnny]

My integrative medicine doctor said the same thing, that I need to develop my spiritual side. She suggested a couple of books on Buddhism. My one friend is coming home at Thanksgiving, which is also Chanukah, and I was thinking I might ask him if I could tag along to the Friday night service at his synagogue. He and his family practice the Humanistic version of the faith, so it is very contemporary and modern. I think it would be a moving experience, especially at Chanukah. He also used to be a swim instructor, so I might see if he would like to hit the pool with me, put me through my paces, and give me a critique and some pointers.

[winter4me]

That sounds like a Good time, with meaningful experiences to be had. I am envious.

[Open Eyes]

((Mowtown)),

That sounds like a nice plan all around. The important thing about "developing spiritualism" is that it is something that will be "unique to you", that is because we are all so unique.

Actually George Harrison from the Beatles spent a lot of time learning about personal spiritualism. There was a documentary done about this part of George, he was such and interesting man and very well liked too. I don't know, but I think if you do a search you will be able to find that documentary, it is well worth watching IMO. It was aired on HBO, but you may be able to "rent it" somehow so you can watch it.

You like music, and one of the things he talked about is "mantras" and how "chanting mantras" can be so incredibly helpful to the mind. Well, a lot of "spiritualism" does contain the chanting of mantras, it has been studied and it does really help the mind in positive ways.

Also, just wanted you to know, there are always those people who are abusive out there, it's not that hard to find them either and yes, often they are just dropped into our lives too. I know you "observe" in an effort to "monitor and report", but you need to consider looking for more "positive energies" that people also send out too. There "are' good people out there in the world too, and you have managed to find some, but you can actually find even more and do your best to "commit and focus in these areas" to feed your mind with positives, in spite of the bad that is always going to be out there in humanity.

[MotownJohnny]

I just don't need this. All I can think about is how great it would feel to end my life. How weird us that? You know what, though, I don't feel the least bit ashamed of this now - it's a symptom, just as shortness of breath is a symptom of asthma.

Just to set the record straight, I am fine, I'm not doing that, been there and it was neither safe nor fun.

Besides, I signed my contract today for the triathlon training program I so desperately want to take. That starts in January. I am planning to work myself up to 8-10 mile runs by that time.

[Open Eyes]

((Mowtown)),

That is from turning your anger inward, self blaming, and frustration. You need to give yourself time to keep healing, these thoughts will get weaker with time. Yes, you are right, that is one of the symptoms of PTSD, I have experienced these thoughts myself, it got really bad for a while too. Always remember, these lows and difficult challenges "do pass" so never act or feed into feeling guilty, I know that's hard sometimes too, yes, me too.

So far you are doing everything right, talking things out and also seeing a T and making some positive plans for yourself too. It really takes time to get a handle on these waves of emotional challenges that surface. I just do my best to take it one day at a time, I admit, some days are pretty challenging and low, so I just do my best to slowly work my way through them always remember these difficult days "do pass".

OE

[MotownJohnny]

Thanks. I just didn't need my difficult days to include being cyber stalked by sociopaths I have never heard of, because I post on a MH support forum.

It seems to confirm something I felt from the moment I left the quack's office - society treats people with mental illness like criminals. That is what it felt like on 08/22/12 at. 4:00 pm, and that is what it feels like right now.

On top of it, I have this mind trip going - maybe this whole cyberstalking thing is a delusion -maybe it's like the Russell Crowe character in 'A Beautiful Mind' - schizophrenic who thinks the CIA and KGB are after him, and "sees" things that aren't there.

If that is the case, I am truly loosing it. But I am pretty sure it isn't the case. I guess if I walk into the local PD to make a police report and they tell me my pages of printed evidence are random bits of internet flotsam and jetsam from random sites, I will know, and as they lock me up I guess I will have to accept this fate as the realization of my most intense fear upon diagnosis - I was destined to end up either homeless or locked away in prison or some One Flew Over hellhole.

Considering it is about 2 am here, and I should be sleeping but I can't, what I really feel like doing is hopping on my bike and going for a ride - to that pier, where is envision how delicious it would be to really do it. Then peaceful oblivion or in my case because the universe hates me, probably straight to eternal torment in Hell.

Nice thoughts huh? And this is WITH Prozac and lamictal. God knows how depressed I would be without that. At least the dog still loves me, he is laying on the floor next to my chair and I am petting him. Last year during the worst of it, I wanted nothing to do with the dog, I quit walking him and brushing him, if he got close to,me I would ignore or leave or shut him in his crate. I can't even explain that - I guess I thought I would lose hi too, so it would be easier to just get it over with make him stop loving me. I must gave him a dental chew thing, because now I'm crying just a bit because I was a bad father to him. At least I play with him for more than 30 seconds and I don't feel compelled to go dress up like Tim Curry in Rocky Horror Picture Show afterwards.

The bike ride actually sounds good, since I am too wound up to sleep. Minus the trip to the death pier. Actually, that sounds cool when I think about it - DeathPier - would make a great name for a Punk or Heavy Metal band - "Coming November 5th to Ford Field, DeathPier! Tickets available now online, at the Ford Field box office,,or at all Ticketmaster locations. DeathPier live in Concert Nivember 5th." Alas, I hate metal and most punk save for Green Day and the All American Rejects.

[JaneC]

Sorry you are having a crappy time johnny and I think DeathPier sounds like a very scary horror film!

You are doing all the right things to move forward, I am sure you will get there eventually...at least i hope you will like I hope all of us will.

[HealingNSuffering]

Those damn prozac are evil I'm telling you dog. I am crazy enough without them, I wouldn't take them if it was the only treatment option on earth. I'd rather be crazy, I have enough suicidal and homicidal ideation as it is. Add SSRI's to the equations and they become actions in my experience. I would take antipsychotics for my paranoia but how are those going to save me from nightmares? The nightmares/flashbacks are totally screwing my head up, beyond the damage that was already done to me in my real life. The nightmares are like living in a whole other world and reexperiencing the same **** over and over again.

You are right it could just be a delusion, I know when I'm stressed out its well known by those around me, that I appear "psychotic" because I'm so paranoid I think everybody is out to get me, and everything bad that happens is a conspiracy to push me over the edge. If somebody really does attack me during stress, I believe they are trying to kill me (because they really have before) and resort to extreme measures to protect myself. I think I'm lucky I've made it this far without any violence on my criminal record. Sorry if this offends or triggers anybody, I'm not doing so well at the moment, I had some horrid nightmares last night.

Peace

[Open Eyes]

Well, I have experienced some challenges in my effort to find online support for MI too. I also questioned myself in the way as you are too. But I seemed to need to talk and just throw myself out there somehow. However, I was also "very confused" with the PTSD and how it was challenging me too. I had never done anything online like that before either, never had time for it.

Yes,I can relate to how you just didn't appreciate the dog or want to love anything somehow, some kind of "distancing that was automatic". I have done that myself and I now know it is one of the symptoms of PTSD. I don't know why that happens, only that it happens in a deep subconscious way somehow.

Society, or "other people" who have no knowledge of or experience with MI typically do not respond to someone struggling in good ways. People who have PTSD show more emotion than others and they can be insistent too. So this is often misunderstood and even questioned or disregarded which will aggravate the PTSD if the person struggling has been a "victim". When someone is struggling with PTSD they really feel things in profound ways and they have lost that common ability that most people have where they disassociate themselves from seeing or feeling certain realities that can really cause "harm".

For example, when a veteran of war comes home, they have been very changed by experiencing how really horrible people can be, how violent and terrible war really is.
They begin to recognize how civilians go along with their lives as if this horror does not even exist, it is somewhere else, someone else's problem. And when they are thanked for their service, they actually feel like all that someone is doing when they say that is just handing out an appropriate social grace, but has no real deep and knowing appreciation to it.

It really takes "time" to understand PTSD on a personal level, and also finally come to terms with how others who have never experienced it first hand, can be "dismissive and even apathetic" towards those that struggle. It also takes time to really "accept" the fact that if you struggle with PTSD, it isn't your fault or that you can no longer function somehow and should just give up. It takes time to grieve whatever caused the PTSD, and also just having PTSD too. However, with time and patience, you can "learn" a lot of different things that most people don't really stop and think about.

It is going to take you time to get to the point where you don't have these profound emotional challenges you are experiencing right now. The more you talk them out, have a chance to "express these emotions freely and be validated" the more you will slowly "heal" and not have these emotional experiences be so profound.

And yes, there will be times where you will feel that "others" can be cruel and say things they should not say or do. After a while, your reaction to that will slowly become less and less disturbing to you. You will still recognize it, but you will also be more capable of personally processing it better without being so crippled emotionally when you see/experience it.

((Hugs))
OE