[avlady]

I hope you feel better Johnny!!!

[Open Eyes]

((Mowtown))),

I am sure you are looking great because you work out and are taking care of yourself.
If other people don't seem to notice or comment it doesn't mean they are thinking badly somehow, people sometimes see improvements in others and it can bring on their own sense of "low esteem" if they are not doing the same.

What I find hard about PTSD is that it just magnifies all the emotions and insecurities and it isn't even really a "conscious" thing, and that's why it can be so frustrating and even absorbing. So when these triggers happen that bring on so much discomfort, it takes time to figure it out and consciously sort through it. There is often that emotional feeling that brings out the feelings of inadequacy because of how these triggers can be such a struggle too.

I gotta be honest, lately I have wanted to start a thread myself because I have really been struggling too. I have a new lawyer for my case as I have mentioned and she is bringing up some questions that have really brought about some heavy triggers and have brought up too many hurts in me.

My new lawyer has told me that unless I can get the vets that I used at the time to say the many injuries that occurred in my horses and ponies could result from them being chased/harassed/frightened by a dog, she will not be able to do much with my case. She is upset because here it is over 6 years later and this should have been taken care of years ago when these vets had this all fresh in their minds. And I had kept asking my now ex lawyer to do that and he kept saying he would but he never did.

I spent my birthday looking at my emails from that year and I had found many emails to my farm vet where I was so concerned about all the injuries I was facing. I didn't realize I had written him so much, pages of them, and it really brought everything back for me. However, I don't know if he will cooperate in the way I need him to, the way he should, because I am not sure he will want to get involved. All he has to do is say the injuries "can" take place with what I experienced. Well, what really upsets me, is that I saw it happen, I lived it, and the different ways they were all injured just overwhelmed me.

I came across an email where I had been hand walking so many of them that I was getting spasms in my legs at night, I was also experiencing anxiety attacks, and I had no idea what PTSD was and that all that ongoing challenge was going to cripple me in a way I never imagined.

I came across emails where my neighbor was driving so fast down the right of way and almost hit me. How they were admitting that they knew their system was down and that I should have "just shot the dog". They were blaming "me" for something that was "their fault" not mine.

You know what I am "most" afraid of? That no one will help me and defend what happened to me, what I lived through first hand that created so much damage, beyond my imagination. I am suppose to call this vet, but I don't want to do it over the phone, I figured I should have him out and go over it with him, even show him all the snapped fence posts that are still there from them running into the fences in terror. But I keep putting off calling him because I feel like I am going to break down in front of him. I also don't want him to feel I am putting him on the spot somehow either, I just don't know "how" he will react. And I know if he doesn't react well, it's going to break me right down.

I was also "alone" when several things happened, and that really bothers me too, because I have all those images that come forward and "wanting so badly, needing so badly, to know that others will believe me". Thank god my husband did see it happen too, if I had not had that, I would probably have gone completely crazy because of how my neighbor has been trying to "deny" and "victimize me" and "say I am crazy".
I have live next to these people and there are many times when I go to see my therapist when I pass him on the road too. They drive down the right of way every day and I can't even look at them because I just get flashbacks, and the average person doesn't understand that.

Oh, sorry, didn't mean to make this about me Mowtown. My husband has been away and I have been alone for a couple of days and I don't really have a way to vent in between seeing my T.

Well, I know the challenge oh so well, and I hear you.

OE

[Open Eyes]

Mowtown, I didn't mean to put my own issue in your thread. I can relate to what you say so much. For me, the core "hurt/challenge/fear" has been and still is "being let down". I have had way too many significant things happen to me in my life where I really was in "need" and was "let down".

In one of the emails to my vet I talked about the neighbors dog and my vet replied, "call the police". Well, I did call the police and they would "not" come out and kept referring me to the dog warden who was out recovering from an injury.

My previous lawyer "could have" filed a suit for that because there is a law stating that with someone like me trying to protect my livestock being threatened the police are supposed to come out when I call. By the time I discovered this law, that my lawyer should have known, the statue of limitations was up.

When I was reading those old emails, I spent so much time in my riding ring handwalking injured animals, and my daughters expensive show horse was so big and had such a big stride and if he even caught a glimpse of my neighbor's dog he would rear up and pull me around. I walked him every day in fear, praying he would not be able to see that dog. I spent so much time in that ring handwalking and having sad endings that just going in that ring has been too much and I have not taught or done much of anything in that ring for years now. I can't seem to get others to understand how the way I get crippled not in a conscious way, but from my subconscious that had so much pain in that ring take place, that when I am in that ring I just get overwhelmed.

It was not until I read those old emails, am alone for a few days and how I was "alone" with so much in that ring too, that I am realizing why I struggle so much. Because I am alone, when I go outside to take care of my horses/ponies I keep feeling like my neighbor is suddenly going to appear as he had done before "angry" at me for "his negligence". I just remember him tearing down my no trespassing signs and standing there telling me he did it because he didn't like them. He is a creepy man, and if you saw him and interacted with him I know you would agree with me. This is the time of year where he starts trimming his Christmas trees, so yes, he could appear suddenly and startle me as he had done before.

No, people do not understand how these challenges just come out when someone has PTSD, and I know that feeling of "self blaming when it just seems to happen too".

Mowtown, you can probably understand how I am challenged. Do you think I should feel bad about it? Am I a bad person because I am struggling like this? Am I a failure? My riding ring used to be full of activity, me spending time teaching and training, yet that is something I have not been able to do again. I tried and it was too hard not to fall apart in front of people and not be able to control it or understand why it was happening either. And it wasn't until I read all those emails that I finally understand "why". A part of me was so hurt and overwhelmed in that ring that I was not even consciously aware of it, all I knew is that when I am in it I get overwhelmed so I avoid it like the plague.

Did you ever stop to think about the fact that because you might be able to "relate' that you can develop the skill of being able to say the right thing to me that lets me know I am not alone with how I struggle? Well, no one around me understands what happens to me when I am in that ring. I am just supposed to "just get over it" and I don't know how to put into words how much I struggle and there hasn't been a just and it only makes me feel like I am a failure somehow.

My husband and daughter both worked two jobs and I was constantly "alone" with all the damage spending so much time in that ring hand walking hurt animals and honestly, I was always so stressed out and overwhelmed and this went on for months until I broke down physically and mentally. Choking, colicing, torn suspensories, a fractured pelvis, damaged hip joint, they were coughing, not eating, and not enough money to have them all examined the way they all needed it.

I went to a psychward, I begged for "rest and grief counceling" and wow, was that wrong place for me. I had the room that was cold, the blanket they gave me didn't keep me warm and no one talked to me or comforted me. I was so physically and mentally exhausted I just wanted to sleep, but they kept opening my door every 15 minutes which woke me up with a startle so I had to try to learn how to sleep every 15 minutes. I had some guy follow me around telling me he was Jesus Christ and if I let him touch me he could take away my pain. A part of me wished he could help me, but he scared me. And my sister came to visit me and yelled at me because I was too tired to get out of bed and try to sit at a table and talk amongst the other very disturbed patients. And they kept pushing drugs on me that made me sick and were mad at me because the rameron they gave me kept me kneeling in front of the toilet all day.

I had nine days in that place that never really let me rest and I was locked in with a group of people that were strange and scared me. There was a phone right across from my room where one of the patients would wake me up screaming and swearing at her husband over that phone. The phone had a cord that was only about two inches long and when I used it to beg my family to get me out of that place, I had to push my head into the wall just so I could get the phone to my ear and mouth to be able to just talk on it.

One day I begged my sister, that if she loved me at all she would get me out of that place because it was so bad for me. When my husband came to pick me up he was "angry" and on that ride home I knew I was going to have to find a way to have to muster up some kind of energy again to go back to taking care of all the injured animals again.

Well, its been over six years and I have not really had any time out, but at least I found a therapist who finally explained to my husband how bad I am, what PTSD means and that he needs to stop being short with me for what I truly cannot help.

You are not alone with how you struggle. If I can do better, so can you, I can't give you "how long" because my situation is different. I am still basically trapped within the trauma because I have yet to get some closure. But if I can gain even though I am stuck, so can you.

OE

[Open Eyes]

I wanted to add that it's important that you let yourself just express and talk about what you are feeling. So what you have been doing in your threads is good. Often what happens is the person who is struggling tends to get messages from others that they are supposed to "hold it all in and "stop" feeling", my husband reacts that way all the time, he wants me to "stop feeling and talking whenever I get so I am struggling" badly.

When something really bothers you, gets you angry and you have strong feelings, it's ok to talk about it if you need to. It is just important that you express yourself with others who can be sympathetic the way you need them to be like a therapist or someone else who also struggles and might have enough therapy to where that person can validate you the way you need them to.

For a while these strong emotions surface, can even be blinding at times, and that's because something has triggered you deeply, hit an injury that you don't really realize you have. It's always important to realize that when this happens, it doesn't mean you are "unworthy or bad or a failure somehow" and I know these feelings can also come on strong too. However, after a while when you can consciously figure these episodes out, you will get better at controlling them.

You asked me to look at something because of how it is "extremely triggering you", I am glad you did that Mowtown. What you are seeing is "being magnified" which doesn't mean what you are seeing isn't bad or wrong either and it is really hitting something that has hurt you deeply. I have also experienced that myself, often when that happened to me I was alone though and didn't have that person to look at whatever it was and talk me through it.

It takes time for the conscious mind to figure out these triggers and how to better manage them. Often it can feel like you should already know how to do that, but that isn't really the case. When I talk about the ring, what happens to me when I go in it, has not been something I have been totally consciously aware of all the whys. I spent so much time in that ring, so stressed out that I just didn't realize where that all went in my brain. I was in a state where I often was just going through the motions, and not really aware of how my brain was really storring all of that constant emotional and physical stress at the time.

When we are in a prolonged traumatic scenario our brains tend to take in more than we realize, push some things away just so we can somehow function too. I was in "hyper vigilance, hyper arousal, for months and months really, but I didn't know what that meant, nor did I know it was actually causing injury either. This can get stored in areas of the brain where there is no language either, so when I was triggered every time I tried to go back into that ring, even now, I really struggle to put into words what just comes over me. All I know is I get emotionally overwhelmed and I just didn't know how to explain it and was ashamed because I just didn't understand it on a conscious level. When I read those old emails, that's when I began to realize the magnitude of it.

I don't know how to fix it tbh. But at least I see it better now.

So, when you struggle, make sure you talk about it where you will be "heard without feeling you should not be so emotional or challenged". Your conscious mind has to become "aware" gradually so you can finally work in "repairing and consciously understanding it all better".

Patience, lots of patience.

OE

[MotownJohnny]

The inevitability of my suicide. I have been pondering this the past few days. It seems like the way my life is heading. My diagnosis immediately struck me as a death sentence. NOT because of anything medical. Because of society. Because they are SO prejudiced against anyone with any kind of mental health issue. Because they basically hate us, and a lot of people DO wish us dead. I am coming to find that out more and more, in my own situation I have been targeted by a hate group of people I don't know, never met, who don't know me, but who hate me simply because I have PTSD and wrote about it on an online MH support forum very much like this one. It boggles my mind.

So, I pretty much have known from day 1 that I would NEVER get a fair chance in this society again, that people were going to look down on me, or fear me, or whatever, because when they think "mental illness" they immediately go to the worst case, one in a million scenario. The fact that I am still exactly who I was before, caring, loving, kind, is now irrelevant to them, because "he is crazy".

So, that leads me back to where I already was. The fact that I think very often about suicide. And the fact that I regret, pretty much daily, NOT doing it when I had the opportunity and means. I am sick of playing the game all around. My therapist is always trying to convince me that "no one cares if you have a mental health issue." I wish I could believe her. Furthermore, I wish she were right. I hear people talk in public - I am now hypersensitive to this issue, so any mention of mental health brings me on guard, almost literally to the point the hair on my neck bristles.

Having hung out with people online in MH support forums, I can say this -- It ain't us, it's them -- "They" have the problem. I have met some very great people online, who I admire deeply and think the world of. I have met some total a-holes in the real world, "normals", who deserve to rot in the deepest levels of Hell one day because of their attitudes and actions.

So, I just don't think I can tolerate living in a world where I'm treated like third class or worse. Which brings up the alternatives -- deserted island somewhere? Alaskan wilderness camp? Or just getting it over with. The last is the only practical one. And, one some level , I always knew it would come to that. Just a question of when and how.

[JaneC]

This makes me sad and I am so sorry to read of your suffering Johnny. I understand the feeling of inevitability,but also know we don't have to give into to those thoughts.
You are worth so much more than other peoples views on the MH issue as a whole......and stigma will always be there. Remove yourself from constantly.viewing it hun, it is poisoning you.

You have an inner strength that I see that you can harness to move above others petty opinions. I do understand how hard it is.......I really do(i may be about to loose my job because of my MH and it not being accepted).......... And I also see that you are in a great position if you choose to break down those walls of stigma and show people just what you are capable of WITH a MH challenge.

Caring and supportive hugs to you.
Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2

[TMWBE]

hey MotownJ,

I just read a few pages of your blog (will finish reading the rest at some point but needed to stop right now for a while), what you wrote and what other members responded. Lots of good stuff there. I can relate. I am a new member and am feeling very apprehensive about my deciding to respond. Please do not take offense to anything I say.

I can identify with the conflict you are in with the members of that other website. I remember the high energy of those types of confrontations and how it would consume me. I would spend weeks filled with anger and pain but I still believed I was fighting some Good, Just Fight. A fight that needed to be fought and because of all of the stuff that I had been through, how I had been hurt so deeply, I didn't even have to decide to get/stay involved in it, my reaction was automatic, swift and often verbally aggressive. What I think I know about myself now is that Conflict itself is one of my major triggers. The overwhelming emotion and injustice that I feel about an issue (conflict) is frequently seen as no big deal or even funny by the opposition. I hang onto the anger and pain, blending it in with my collection, that fills the inside of me and leads me through my life, me reacting to every injustice I see, ripping my life apart time and time again. I am 55 years old and just moved from my apartment a little over a year ago where I had been able to stay for a number of years (I guess you would call that my home) because the property I rented was sold to a new owner who at some point needed to let me know that he was committed to "The Truth" and that I was not. (a story that I would actually like to tell at some point, to get some truthful feedback on, it is still spinning around in my head) I am in conflict again here at my new apartment, Triggered by very thin walls that you can hear everything, everything through. My neighbors, who I have never said anything but hello to, discussing how they don't give a crap (they used the other word) if the old man next door can hear them or not, and what they would do if I had a problem with it. I can hear their sex which is over the top for me as my mother was a prostitute when i was trying to be a child. I try to keep my mouth shut but it's very hard. Last time I was at the dentist he said, "You must grind your teeth a lot" I didn't realize that i was a grinder till he said that.

Now I have gotten to the point when I identify potential conflict, often in my first contact with a person I remove myself from their company permanently. I live in a town where I know no one, a very conservative area where the general consensus that I overhear is anti-me. I stay in my house, never speak a word out loud for days at a time, it's so lonely but I for the most part I can stay out of new conflict. I think I may be prone to overcompensation, but I view it as survival.

I read in a post on this site, not sure who the member was who said it, but I liked it a lot, She/He said, "Don't borrow trouble from the future". I think I am seeing some really good people here, I hope I don't mess it all up.

I'm Spinning now, time to go

themanwithblueeyes

[MotownJohnny]

Hi, themanwithblueeyes, welcome. Nothing to "mess up" - people here are very supportive, friendly, and non-judgemental. Just say what is on your mind, God knows I do.

[MotownJohnny]

Jane, please don't be sad about me. You have your own struggles, I don't mean to bring anyone else down.

It's just hard. My emotions are so all over the place, up down up down down down up again. Makes it hard to know what each day will be, good or bad. The pressure of this thing is getting to me. I fall into these deep pits of despair, thinking I have no reason to live, an hour later I'm thinking about some new project or new thing.

[Open Eyes]

((Mowtown))),

I read your post from the 14th, it is important for you to realize at some point that there really is no "normal", everyone struggles in some way and secretly feels vulnerable on some level.

These individuals that are targeting you are doing so because "they" are very disturbed, very disturbed and can only gain their sense of empowerment by putting others down and doing so in some very mean disturbing ways. They certainly are not "intelligent" no, they are like "primitive apes pounding their chests" and my guess is they can only do this online because in person they are "physically not all that and they most likely have "no real life friends" either.

They certainly are not worthy of you allowing them to contribute to your feeling down either. I know that is a challenge to see when you have PTSD, so I am here to let you know I support you in your recovery, I genuinely feel you truly deserve that so that when you do make these gains, you can be proactive and reach out to others that you see struggling in the mindset you are struggling with now.

(((Hugs)))
OE

[MotownJohnny]

I'm done for. I feel that way, anyway. I just talked to the attorney. IF I proceed with a legal case against my stalkers, I will have to disclose my identity. That is SO effed up -- they want to know my identity so they can defame and humiliate me, I want them to stop so I turn to the courts, and the first requirement is I give out my identity to them, before I even know theirs.

So, I don't know what to do. If I proceed, I will have to be really brave, and I don't know how much of this I can take. Furthermore, I guess I am risking everything. Career, family. I always said, from the second I was diagnosed as bipolar by that quack, my life was over, and that I was going to die alone, homeless, destitute, in a gutter in Detroit.

Looks like that was prophetic. Might as well get it over with.

[Open Eyes]

((Mowtown)),

Ok, I understand how this can be a major trigger Mowtown. I thought that you knew this because you are the one suing/pressing charges, unfortunately you have to give your name, now you see why more people don't take action, sad, but true. If you were being accused of something you would have to also know the name of the person doing this too, it is just how this kind of case/legal action goes.

Unfortunately we do have freedom of speech and if the site where these individuals are posting isn't monitoring and allows these kind of posts and unless these individuals "are" really threatening you and already do know your identity and are stalking you then I don't know what you can do. See this is not as though they are posting on your facebook or emailing your personal email with these threats, this is anonymous until you can prove otherwise.

I don't know what you have that "proves" they know who you really are and plan to "act maliciously towards you" in some way. Unfortunately cyber bullying is very real and if you put out too much information it can lead to some weirdo needing to get some kick out of harassing people to head in your direction. Yes, unfortunately there are some very strange, creepy people in the world, there just are and the internet has given them a new way to "play with people's heads".

This doesn't mean you are ruined, even though these individuals want you to feel that way. You don't have to "play along" either, you "can" choose to distance from it, they will just look for someone else, it is just how these people operate.

You are better than this, you really are.

((Hugs))
OE

[MotownJohnny]

Today may be the second time I die. If that is even possible.

I am already a dead man walking. I died on August 22, 2012 at 3:10 pm in the swanky office of a so-called healer in an upscale medical building gleaming with glass and chrome in an upscale suburb of Detroit, with a damned Best Buy and Panera bread across the parking lot and a damned Applebee's next door. So normal looking, not the kind of place one would think of as an end-of-life venue. I have been dead for one year, ninety days, and about 13 hours as of this moment. No one bothered to buy the corpse, that is all.

My life ended that place and time. I have spent the last year, ninety days, and 13 hours trying to fight against that information. I give up. It wins. Radical Acceptance. My therapist keeps talking about how I need "radical acceptance" of things that played out the way they did. Fine, I accept it, however radical it may sound, that I am already dead. I guess the interim period is just my soul in Purgatory, waiting to be let into Heaven, or Hell, wherever I am to end up. I guess I see it as one positive sign that my life had some value, I still contemplate the possibility of Heaven.

Today, at 11:00 AM, I am scheduled to die again. By my own hand, I guess. Not literally. But a second death equal, no doubt, to the one 15 months ago. I have a meeting this morning with the attorney I have retained to deal with my internet stalking situation. I have already begun to find out just how much of an uphill battle it might be for justice. I have been working on gathering evidence, downloading files from the offending website, only to find that the downloaded HTML files self-destruct in a few days. These people know what they are doing. Last night, I got security alerts that someone was trying to hack into my email account associated with this whole mess. It was from a VPN address through one of those IP address scrambler companies. Someone doesn't want to be found.

So, today at 11:00, we have a meeting to go over the whole case, the pleadings, etc. And, if I go forward, after getting all of the information, the case will be filed on Monday, the summons and complaint and subpoenas will go out soon thereafter to the parties we know, or those known to them we can ascertain.

And I expect this to bring on a real firestorm, cyber harassment and stalking, more defamation, an attempt to "out" me in real life -- they will massively up their efforts to get me.

The joke is on them - I am already dead. What more can they do to me. Degrade me, humiliate me, dehumanize me, traumatize me. That's already done, they would just be beating the dead horse. The quack psychiatrist did that. Being forced against my will into a psychiatric day program did that. Everything about that experience is ****ed up beyond belief. And, as a result of that, I have no life. I go through the motions, I pretend I do, the outside world seems impressed with my personal growth. And, it's all a facade, a lie, like the beautiful houses and beautiful cars here in good old Subguratory Michigan USA, one lie compounds upon another -- the house is underwater on three mortgages, the car is leased with late payments, the happy marriage is two "beautiful people" spouses who lie and cheat on each other. That kind of facade, it looks "so perfect" to the world, but in the cold light of truth, it's a brutal Hell.

That is my life, people seem to think I am "a winner" because I have changed a lot. But, they don't know what lies behind the facade. PSYCHIATRIC PATIENT. I probably just offended some of you. In fact, I am sure I did. Because I have made that type of statement elsewhere, and it offended. I'm sorry. But I have to say it.

I can't live with the shame of that any more.

Me. Sent. To. The. Psych. Ward.

I can't live with the shame of that any more.

Me. Sent. To. The. Psych. Ward.

I pleaded with that quack NOT to do this to me. I told her how, if she forced me to do what I absolutely did NOT want to do, it would ruin me. I said, right there in that moment 15 months ago, that I would end up unemployed and unemployable, pennyless, abandoned by family and friends, and homeless, to die in the gutter. And, it is all coming true in spades. When I am "outed" online by my tormentors, which they WILL do sooner or later, no matter what any court or law enforcement entity says or does, my career will be over. My family will tell me to leave, never come back. My money, well, I will blow through the rest of that soon enough. And then, the final disgrace, the streets of Detroit. I don't expect I will survive long. My final death of many, when it comes, will be a merciful escape.

Because, bottom line, I can't live with the shame of it.

Sent to the Psych Ward.

[Open Eyes]

((Mowtown))),

You are very "low and down and defeated right now" and I am glad you at least have let these low feelings out. I have experienced these very dark thoughts and feelings myself so I do understand how you feel.

However, while I understand how hard this is right now, you are in a very dark wave and "it will pass", it really will Mowtown.

If you are really struggling and SU, please make sure you get help. I understand how hard it is and how low this feels too, but I promise this will pass and you will learn how to overcome these bad lows. You really need to realize that the PTSD you are struggling with will "magnify" because you have been deeply hurt. Yes, it does feel like part of you has died somehow, I have experienced that profoundly myself too. Sorry to say I can see where you are because I have been there myself, so it is very important that you get help, it really is not worth giving in to this extreme low, you can get stronger but it is going to take time.

Please keep in touch and let us know you are getting help and will not harm yourself?
Please? You need to learn how these very dark waves that come over you "will" pass, I promise they "do pass" hun.

(((Concerned and Caring Hugs)))
OE

[MotownJohnny]

OE, thnx for your concern. As far as "getting help" goes, in that sense, never again. I tried to get help last year, and it has destroyed me. If I were in a position where someone was trying to forcibly help me, it would happen literally if they could take me alive. Drastic but how I feel. I wanted options a year ago August, I just needed some prescriptions and outpatient treatment, this other was rammed down my throat against my will. Never again, my life, my choice.

[Open Eyes]

Well, sadly, I know the feeling I got hurt too when I tried to reach out. However, I am glad I kept trying because I do have a therapist that has helped me tremendously.

I went through the stage you are at now and it was "bad" and I know that it is very important to have help during this stage of PTSD. It can get very dark, but this stage "does pass" even though it doesn't feel like it, it will Mowtown.

Yes, I understand your rage and anger with wanting justice and seeing how difficult it is even though you are seeing and telling the truth. I have dealt with this myself, only the perpetrator lives right next to me, so I don't even have the luxury of really distancing the way I needed to. It has been hell for me, crippling and exhausting and incredibly lonely too.

However, as bad as you feel right now, you "can" make gains on this, it's just very hard to see right now because of how disabling it can be at times. I have been there myself, so I am doing everything I can to reach out to you and help you and listen to you, sorry I am not there in person for you. Just "please" and I know this is hard, be patient, it "will pass" take it from someone who has lived it first hand ok?

I have to work today so I am not going to be on until later. So please take it easy and don't do something bad. Try to find something to distract yourself with, a good movie or even a nap or a nice walk or a workout ok?

(((Hugs))))
OE

[unaluna]

Unless you're running for president, I really dont think anyone cares. Or they do if you act like you're gonna go postal on them. Are you taking your meds? You're sounding very dramatic, and that is worrisome to me.

[Open Eyes]

((((Mowtown)))),

Thinking about you and just wanted to give you some (((((Big Hugs)))).

OE

[too SHy]

I was 3 yrs old when I slept on the floor in our all-white bulding on Lasalle, during the riots which followed the LA riots. I grieve for detroit, the great city. Plenty of good jobs for everbody. But signs of Detroit's bankrupt impending were all there. Mismanagement by those in charge, spelled disaster for detroit since the 1950's.

[MotownJohnny]

Huh, we are about the same age. My older sisters and mother remember seeing tanks patrolling on Woodward out here in Bloomfield Hills area. I have only one memory, being told I had to stay indoors because it was dangerous to go out.

[too SHy]

well I guess I lived in detroit during the riots 196? I was very small. we went to stay with my aunt Georgia on Woodward. Detroit is a fine town.............