Aversion to pharmaceuticals?

It sounds like you have done an extensive amount of self-examination, Michanne, which is wonderful. I truly hope the best for you.

I know that many people are deeply concerned about the long-term effects of psychiatric medication. I am, too. But I also know that mental illness itself causes brain damage. The longer it goes on untreated, the worse the damage. My belief is that psych meds might actually ease the symptoms of mental illness, ease the stress on the body, and in the long run prevent damage to the brain and the rest of the body.

As for the state of mental health care today it's sure not perfect, but it has improved amazingly since the 1970's and before.

Thank you for hearing me. Adderall is the other one but it is a good compromise because the half life is so short. I had good experience with Neurofeedback as an option but it is too expensive and too far a way. Also the machines aren't as good these days which is too bad. The person I worked with is one of the original pioneers. It was a valuable learning experience though.

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There are so many great artists of many mediums that didn't survive. Who knew if their art would have their survived if they had been kept stable by medications. That's part of their mythical legacy. We really dont know what would have become of Sylvia Plath or Virginia Woolf? Jackson pollak created his best work when he wasnt medicated and in his manic phases. And what would have become of Marilyn Monroe if she had been given the help she really needed?

A wonderful film that explores this is "The Soloist" with Jamie Foxx. It was out a few years ago and is about a brilliant, Juliard trained cellist who suffers from schizophrenia and ends up homesless. It is true, based on an article in (I think) the New Yorker. The writer of the article befriended him after seeing him playing in the street. He tried to help him get treatment and to also start playing again. It very relevant to this topic of art, mental illness and medication.

OK, I'm not a moderator, but I started this thread and I don't want to see it deteriorate into stealth insults. I'm the queen of these and I have noticed it several times already. Apologies for mentioning names, hope I'm not offending you or entering into your private space.

First Michanne. It is obvious Michanne has been around for a while and is very knowledgeable in the area she finds important. You may not agree with her beliefs or delivery method (writing skills) or even the area she holds dear to her heart. First, we must respect her beliefs. We don't have to agree with them, we can list the reasons why we don't agree with them, but we don't have the right to tell her he is wrong in her beliefs. Whether we like it or not there are no right or wrong answers in mental health diseases. It is what we believe that will helps us and how we apply it. One size does not fit all in this challenge.

Sister rags, Michanne has the right to feel as sensitive as she desires. Her feelings of sensitivity should not affect how others feel. And you shouldn't really tell her she is too sensitive. Perhaps you can rephrase it as, "I noticed I have said some things that have upset you. I do not want to upset you. Can you give me some ideas on how I communicate with you in a manner that won't hurt you?"

As a personal example, I absolutely hate snowboarding and free style park skiing. I wish ski areas would have the right to ban them from their slopes. I think it is dangerous, the participants are wreckless, and they take over valuable terrain that use to belong to us skiers. I'm entitled to that opinion, I am entitled to share my opinion, but I'm not entitled to shove my opinion down someone's throat because they don't agree with me.

Sewer rat, this is the first time I've met you and other than not really seeing you keep to the topic, I can't say much. However, I can express my feelings. I don't know what your deal is with Michanne, but it is absolutely unprofessional to drag you personal issues in a thread that doesn't address the issue that upsets you. Take it as you wish, I am just expressing my opinion.

Sorry to play moderator. Sorry if I have overstepped my boundaries. My intent was not to single out individuals. My intent is to encourage respect and non-confrontational dialog. I believe we can learn a lot from this thread if we share without fear of repercussion and we respect each other. For example, I am the poster child for pharmaceuticals, but I'm curious how other tools have helped others. An example, I would love if Michanne would share with me/the group what changes she made in her nutrition. When I hear change your diet, I hear give up everything I like, in particular steak and stinky cheeses and adopt a rabbit food diet. I can't do that. I suspect Michanne might have some food ideas and recipes that may give me a reason to explore improving my nutrition. Perhaps she can also share with me what differences she noticed when she adopted the changes.

Thank you everyone for your participation; and Michanne sorry I put you so much on the spot. I hope I did not make you feel too uncomfortable. I do appreciate the knowledge you have shared with me.

not sure if MI itself causes brain damage. Was it ever proven?

Didn't Marylin overdose on prescription meds? She was getting help.

I think I said this before... but one of the reasons I don't wanna be on pharmaceuticals is.... that I worry might use them to off myself on a weak point. You cannot kill yourself with herbs or lecitin. Believe me, I tried.

The thing is many people on meds still kill themselves anyways. Often...with the very meds they were prescribed.

Sure, some thrive with help of meds. But do meds alone cut it? Probably hardly ever. Otherwise this forum would not be here, there wouldn't be thriving market of alternative treatments, therapy would be useless. We'd just pop pills and be well. It's not how it is though.

You are right at one thing you are not a moderator , so stop playing one we have enough thanks. And no you have no right to call out names on a post and play therapist. If you want food, med , lifestyle, benzo ,alternative, advice try reading the hundreds of threads all ready written ,or have you been away for a year or 2

"Art vs meds" is not the question. Each person decides best for themselves.

I can't remember the movie and I don't even know if I have it right.,. "It is what we settled for." That is so true.

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Caveat to my earlier post. It is proven that mentally patients have damaged brains to begin with through brain scans, but whether it causes continual damage is very new science.

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but is it from MI or from unfortunate lifestyle? Bad diet can affect the brain. Substance abuse? No question about it.

And it's been proved some classes of drugs (APs particulary) also damage brains.

Fornunatelly brains can repair themselves to a degree.

Caveat to my earlier post. It is proven that mentally patients have damaged brains to begin with through brain scans, but whether it causes continual damage is very new science.

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I didnt really intend to create any debate regarding "art vs. Meds"... I just thought the movie might be of interest as it illustrates one way in which severe mental illness and artistic genius can collide in tragic ways.

Obamacare (for me, Covered California) has been a blessing. It costs so much less than alternative health...so much less. My health care DOES provide for some alt med, but it's still much more costly than standard health care. And that's a sad fact.

correlation? Causation?

Are we depressed cause brains are different or are breaks different cause we are depressed?

Also this is interesting MRI's: The new phrenology? | Psychology Today

Don't take this as attack on you. *points to signature* I just believe too many things cannot be objectivelly explored. Our minds being one of them. So to be all the brain science is kinda entertaiming, but that might be all there is. Maybe we will never know the answers. In meantime we have to individually work on our path to wellness and do what is right for us. Science doesn't really tell us any of this. I doubt science can give you aim in life, a purpose... and hence lead to happiness. It's a tool, one should not overrely on it.

I heard great stories about Neurofeedback. Still wonder if it's worth the money, though.

When practiced appropriately, and under the care of a holistic practitioner, holistic mental health therapies have proven successful for many people. However, people with severe mental conditions such as schizophrenia and bi-polar disorders may initially require more of a traditional treatment approach.
-http://www.mypassion4health.com/articles/mental_wellness.html

The above paragraph summarizes exactly what I've been asserting: that severely mentally ill people almost always (if not always) require psychiatric medication to remain in a functional state.

Thank you, Sewerrats.