Raising the White Flag - I Surrender

Good post, notme9. I completely agree with you. I could not have done it without my T, either! Connecting to her firstly was an essential part of the process.

Phoenix,

I don't know why it scares me so much to think about taking care of my own inner child's needs. I have practiced making comforting statements to myself, doing self-soothing, visualizing hugs, etc. But it just doesn't doesn't fill up that empty hole inside. It seems to work for others; why isn't it working for me? I know the key is for the adult side of me to provide this comfort. But even the adult me often feels like i need advice/help. I feel scared, like I'm being left alone to do something i can't do.

Hi Treehouse,

I appreciate your post. It's interesting to me that you said once you accepted that you couldn't go back and get the nurturing you needed as a child, you actually were able to open up to t's comfort. Somehow, I am not understanding this. Maybe your situation is different because even though you accepted that you couldn't go back in time and re-do what happened, your t actually kind of replaced what you didn't get by giving you the nurturing and hugs you missed out on. Because my t doesn't comfort me that way, then accepting what I missed out on as a child also means accepting that my t won't replace what I didn't get by supplying the comfort and hugs. See what i mean? So I can't accept my past losses and then be filled up in the present. I have to accept that i didn't have it then and can't have it now. I just don't feel happy about it at all. It's that feeling that I'm being asked to face/experience the pain of my past losses while at the same time fixing myself. It just doesn't feel fair. Maybe it's better not to even talk about/face/feel the past losses if they can't be undone or compensated for in the present.

Luce,

I hear you saying that you have learned to fill up that empty hole and nurture yourself. It's amazing that you've learned to do this, and I'm so glad that it's working for you and that you don't feel the need anymore to have somebody else nurture you or comfort your inner child. I just don't understand why this isn't working for me. I do the things you've mentioned to comfort myself, but I don't "feel" anything! What am I doing wrong? The other thing is why do i feel so terrified when i think about taking care of my own needs? Why do i feel panicked about it, and why do I feel such strong urges to cry?

Mouse,

I've hoped that my t would be the one to give me the nurturing and comfort i need. . .or at least to do it in combination with my own efforts. I don't want to do it alone. I'm afraid to do it alone. When we start talking about my past abuse or traumas and I go into that "little girl" place, it scares me to know that i can't have t come sit next to me and give me a hug. Yes, I've talked to her about this often. I guess she just has concerns about hugging me, what with my past childhood SA by a neighbor who also was nurturing toward me. But it is so hard to face all the old pain again and try to endure it without an intervention by t to help me feel that, this time around, someone will step in and provide relief.

((((((((((((((((((peaches)))))))))))))))))) I'm sorry if my post upset you. For real.

It is true that T hugs me. At the time that I realized that I couldn't go back and redo childhood, hugs were not part of my therapy. It was such a painful, gut-wrenching realization....but it did kind of open me up to accepting what T COULD give me. That's all I meant. Since then, things have changed and I do get the hugs, etc... And truly, that wasn't something I even thought I wanted...

I can hear how painful this is for you, and I really am sorry.

it is hard - how do you give your inner child somthing you never had? how do you know how to give it? my inner child doesnt belive me most of the time - she has learned not to trust - she has been on her own a long long time - if somene offers her a hand now - why wont it pull away just when she needs it the most..... thats what the past has taught her.

The only constant is us - so I keep telling my inner child that I love her (hard to say - dont know if i believe in love or know what it is.... maybe what I feel for my kitties is love....dunno) that we are there for them - that we couldnt take care of them then - but we will try to take care of them now - and that we will never NEVER leave them alone in the dark again... maybe in time our inner child will believe us - it took a long time to form the deep dark hole in our souls so it will take a longtime and a lot of hard work to fill it.

I wish you well Be happy be safe be well

Treehouse,

No, No, No, you didn't upset me!! (I'm just upset that my t isn't like your t.) I wish that my t could see that the comfort i want isn't "in place of" my own efforts -- but as a supplement to what I'm trying to accomplish in therapy. Your t seems to understand this. But, no, you didn't upset me at all. Really!

Hi Peaches.
I don't know about you, but the reason it didn't work for me for a long time was because I was still using all my defences to avoid facing that inner devastation. There is a big jump between accepting and knowing intellectually that T (and no-one else) can fill that hole for us, and accepting and knowing it emotionally.

You wrote to treehouse:

So I can't accept my past losses and then be filled up in the present. I have to accept that i didn't have it then and can't have it now. I just don't feel happy about it at all. It's that feeling that I'm being asked to face/experience the pain of my past losses while at the same time fixing myself. It just doesn't feel fair. Maybe it's better not to even talk about/face/feel the past losses if they can't be undone or compensated for in the present.

You hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what I needed to do to heal. I needed to face it. Head on. With no arms out to catch me or 'make it better'.

And it hurts like hell. The grief is huge. The pain of knowing that you never got what you needed and you ever can't go back and get it now is overwhelming.

I spent so much of my life trying to run from that pain. Trying to fill it up elsewhere. Putting bandaids on it by getting my time with T, or getting a hug if I was lucky.

But there are no bandaids that can heal a wound that big. The act of putting it on might make you feel better for the moment, but as soon as you get up to move you can be sure that that wound is going to soak through that bandaid in an instant. For me the bandaids worked as a momentary distraction, but it was never long before the wound started hurting and I was driven to seek something (or someone) else to distract me from the pain of it once again. I spent years and years of my life desperately seeking those bandaids.

One day I decided I had had enough. I finally understood that the bandaids weren't working. The wound wasn't healing. And I couldn't cope with the desperate inner need anymore.

So I removed all the bandaids, and allowed myself to feel the pain of the wound. I looked at it. I truly allowed myself to feel the pain of what had caused it. Accepted that I could never go back and 'grow up again' without it. I understood that my parents - who should have cared for and loved me - caused this. They allowed it to fester, and rubbed dirt and grit into it for good measure. And then... then I understood and accepted that there is NOBODY on this earth who can go back and give that little me all that she needed... there is NOBODY who can love her as she needed to be loved, NOBODY who can hold and comfort her as she needed to be held. I understood - both intellectually and emotionally - all I had lost and would never have.I cannot describe to you the depth of that grief.

I guess the key was that I truly felt that pain. I didn't use any defences to fight it off. I went deep down into it and accepted it.

And from that acceptance and grief came a new understanding and appreciation of myself. I made a commitment to myself. Nobody had ever been there for me - I resolved that I will ALWAYS be there for me. I will NEVER let me down. I will NEVER allow myself to be bullied or hurt by others. I will ALWAYS stick up for my rights. I will ALWAYS take care of my needs.

And I do. I have absolute faith in myself to always be there for me. I am 100% dependable. And I always know *exactly* what I need.
And you know what? It doesn't mean that I never get care from anyone else, because I do. It just means that I am not desperately looking for anyone to fill those needs for me. I take care of it myself. And anything I receive from anyone else is just a bonus.
And you know what else? That inner desperation isn't there anymore. That inner self that needed so much and never got it... now gets it from me. My commitment to her - to myself - IS enough.

I think the key is in accepting the pain. Letting go of all your defences that you've used for years and years to fight those feelings, and just feel it. Yes, it is terrifying and yes the pain is overwhelming, and yes it feels like the depth of pain is not survivable. But it is. And the healing that can come from it is indescribable.
To not feel that desperate aloneness, that need for someone else to 'make it better' is ... life changing.

And it is isn't lonely. It isn't 'sad'.
It is empowering. Affirming. Healing. That inner self that so desperately needs someone to soothe it no longer has to reach outward for bandaids that don't even work. That inner self is safe and secure in the knowledge that she will always be heard, loved and taken care of, no matter what.

You say you do all the right things but you can't 'feel' it.
Going through the motions isn't the same as being committed. It isn't the same as having faith in yourself. It isn't the same as accepting the depth of your own pain - truly owning it for what it is. Perhaps it is simply that - going through the motions while holding out hope for the next bandaid.
But while you are simply going through the motions, that desperate inner self still feels her desperation. While you hold out hope for the next bandaid, she waits too.
And that gaping, yawning chasm of need never gets filled.

Luce: What you wrote is truly awesome, inspirational, and heartwarming!!! You're amazing!! I needed to hear it right now as I am struggling with getting to the place you are at. Thank you so, so much.

(((Luce)) thankyou for your post..... so very very very true

Luce, your post says so much!!!!!!!

Luce's post takes the cake........

This is where you seek help and support instead of wanting them to do it for you????


Good questions that need to be explored. I found myself not meeting my needs no matter what I did until I found the little message in my mind which was blocking my way. My message was that I believed that my mother would stop loving me if I met my needs. This thought of course was formed in my mind when I was a small child. What messages do you have concerning your needs?

Provide relief so you don't have to feel the pain?????

I am having a hard time with this. If this is true, of what use are therapists? If there is not now and never will be anyone who will treat you better than your parents, then you have to do everything entirely by yourself -- and you had better never ever make a mistake or need anything, because help will not be there.

really don't know how to respond to this thread anymore. I'm so appreciative of the time it takes for others to respond to my posts. I am really trying to reflect on them and understand the application to my life. But I feel like I'm not being understood. How does my wanting my t to sit next to me and put her arm around me or offer a hug when I'm crying my eyes out = me not wanting to help myself or wanting others to "do it all for me?"

All I've wanted was a little comfort to help me process the pain inside. Just a helping hand that way. So that when i get triggered or have flashbacks, i don't have to feel the same way I did as a kid. Frightened and alone, with no way to endure the huge scary feelings by myself. Nobody to stop what was happening to me. I'm not asking my t to hug me every session. i'm not asking to move in with her so she can be my mom. i just want some kind of physical comfort when the pain inside is so bad it feels like it's going to kill me. I don't understand what's so wrong with that.

Also, how does getting a hug from my t = me not facing my old pain from childhood? I'm so well aware of the pain from my childhood, it courses through my veins, I feel it, i think it, i breathe it. How is continuing to sit alone in my pain going to help me move beyond it? How is not getting comfort now going to be any better than not getting comfort then? How is that healing? Isn't that just a repetition of the isolation and abandonment I suffered back then?

If you knew somebody who was in alot of emotional pain and was pouring her heart out and sobbing, would it be wrong for them to want somebody to offer a hug? If she wanted that, would it amount to her not wanting to help herself and wanting everyone else to "do it for her?" I just don't understand.

I'm not angry with anyone. I'm just very upset and confused and think i need to take a break and come back to this thread later.

No, Peaches, I don't think it would mean that. I think any suggestion that that is what you want is wrong.

Phoenix said,

it is hard - how do you give your inner child somthing you never had? how do you know how to give it?

I feel the same way and share the same frustrations.

my inner child doesnt belive me most of the time - she has learned not to trust - she has been on her own a long long time - if somene offers her a hand now - why wont it pull away just when she needs it the most..... thats what the past has taught her.

Yes, the inner child does not trust. And sadly, she does not trust *me.* I have trusted people in the past who ended up abusing her or rejecting or hurting her. I have made bad decisions that hurt my inner child. She does not feel safe with me. She does not trust me to be a good parent or to know and provide what she needs, and for good reason.

The only constant is us - so I keep telling my inner child that I love her (hard to say - dont know if i believe in love or know what it is.... maybe what I feel for my kitties is love....dunno) that we are there for them - that we couldnt take care of them then - but we will try to take care of them now - and that we will never NEVER leave them alone in the dark again... maybe in time our inner child will believe us - it took a long time to form the deep dark hole in our souls so it will take a longtime and a lot of hard work to fill it.

I tell my inner child the same things. They I will learn how to take care of her. That i will listen to her. That i will try to comfort her and give her what she needs. I even picture it. But I feel so dang inadequate! It makes it even harder when i get triggered and dissociate, because then I seem to switch from being the adult me to the hurt child me. And how do you comfort the part of yourself that is hurting if, at that moment in time, you are experiencing yourself AS the hurting child?

Notme said,

Peaches, I have been working on this myself. My T says I need to grieve the past, acknowledge those needs will never be met by the people from my past, and that will help make room for something else.

My t has told me also that things will improve for me when i get to a point where i am ready to grieve for my past losses, or something like that. I'm not really sure what she means by "grieve for my past losses" because I feel as though i have been grieving for a long, long time already. I feel the pain, I feel the emptiness, it's that pain and emptiness that drive me to try to get relief or comfort. I am not sure what kind of grieving i need to do that i am not already doing.

Also, I wonder. . .if we do grieve for past losses and accept that our unmet needs will never be met by people from our past (usually parents), what does it make room for? Can it make room for allowing others to help meet those needs in the present? Or is that just a no-no to want anybody to meet those needs now?

There's so much I don't understand about this.

It is hard, and for me, I've had to go at it pretty slowly. I think about it sometimes and then leave it alone for a while, so it doesn't become so overwhelming.

That's good. My t and I are starting to realize we need to slow down also. It's when we talk too much about the hurting inner child and the unmet needs that I tend to get overwhelmed and feel like i need her to comfort me and meet those needs. If we take it a little bit at a time, and keep the discomfort level from getting too high, then i feel that i can control the pain and handle it and don't feel like i need rescue.

I think it has helped my relationship in T though -- for the most part, I'm less demanding/it feels less urgent because I understand that it's not really about her, it's about me and feelings coming from me about the past. That she's just a person doing the best she can to help me.

Yeah, I think i get tripped up in figuring out which emotions belong to the past, and which belong to the present. I hope things become clearer in time.

Thanks for your support.

Hi peaches100, I don't think we've met before. Pardon me for jumping in here unannounced like this, but you asked an interesting question and I hope you don't mind if I toss in my two cents' worth.
My own favorite answer to that is: it makes room for us to discover what actually is so for us, rather than what our script or our calculations say should be.

I doubt that this perspective on your situation will make much sense to you until you discover it for yourself, but here goes anyway:

[ goes into psychic trance]
I see you standing with your face pressed against the wall, fretting, "Bricks! I can't see anything but bricks. I can't believe there is anything in the world but bricks. What are they talking about, if I could step back from the wall a little I might see more clearly. What's the use of seeing more clearly when there's nothing to see except more of these depressing bricks?"
[/trance]

(Where am I? Did I just say something?)

What if you were to discover that there are different ways of "holding" what you're identifying as your needs and that you're stuck in one such way? (We could call it, "I need to find somebody to meet my needs. How do I find somebody to meet my needs?")

You seem to think that's bad, and that if you understood more you could figure out how to get free of your problem(s) -- get your needs met, or whatever. Maybe, just maybe, it's your current "understanding" of your problem that's holding it in place, and if you allowed yourself to relax into what you don't understand, you'd find you could choose to keep your problem or to let go of it; to focus on your unmet needs, to meet them yourself, or to fling them to the wind and go on about your business.

I know this doesn't make any sense. What I eventually discovered, though -- having stayed stuck in a position not very different from yours for far longer than I wanted to -- was that it was precisely sense that was keeping me stuck there. It was totally logical that I should be condemned to be forever unable to get my needs met; far be it from me to do anything illogical; so there I was.

Good luck -- but if luck doesn't happen to come on schedule, you do (believe it or not) have the option of making your own.

------------------------------------
Don't believe everything you think.

To heal you have to feel the same way you did as a kid. This is how you process it. You are a competent adult now. You can survive this.

From what you have written previously, it sounds like you wouldn't accept the hug anyway and I think that you admitted this. I just get the feeling that you are putting all your eggs in this hug basket because you think that it will do the trick.

Do you think this is what you really want today? For someone to stop what is happening to you (stop what you are feeling when you get triggered back to that little girl?)

This would be when you just feel the emotions then????? Maybe do some grounding to remind yourself that what you are experiencing is from the past??????

Rainbow said,

You know I struggle with the same thing, and that's why I am having such a hard time leaving my T. It's like she "shattered my dreams." Is that the way you feel too?

I don't know if I'd describe it as "shattering my dreams." It's more like I've felt confused about what her stand is on the hugs. She has been wishy washy about it. She's told me several times over the last few years that it would be OK if i needed a hug at some point and asked for one. But she doesn't offer, even when i'm really suffering. I've told her I can't bring myself to ask, hoping she would just offer. But at times when i've clearly needed it, she didn't move closer or ask if i wanted a hug. She voiced a concern that i'd self-harm if she gave me physical comfort, but we cleared up that concern. Finally, she patted my back one time, which really helped me. But the next couple of times I was really sobbing and hurting, she didn't offer. Finally, i just got very hurt and angry, feeling that she just didn't want to help me when i was hurting. So she finally offered a hug. But i felt bad about accepting since it feels like it's coerced.

So. . .a week or two ago, I decided i had to just forget it. I decided that t simply must not want to hug me (for whatever reason), and I was going to have to give up on having that need met.

BUT:

After our latest session, where we'd discussed learning how to use the "core me" to offer comfort to the "hurting parts of me," I asked her. . . "If i am supposed to take care of my own needs, is it wrong for me to want you to come sit next to me and give me a hug when I'm hurting badly? Do you not want to do it because i will get too attached to you, or because you think that if you comfort me, i will not want to comfort myself"?

She said No, "I would like to model giving comfort when you are ready for it."

I am so confused.

Hi Deli,

Yes, I think that's what i've been after, your description of how your t "sees you struggle now and heals that wound." So you feel looked after, cared for, like "snuggling under a mother bird." At the same time, you say that your t is "getting me interested in the outside world and helping you test your wings." So can't the two co-exist? Can't we get the comfort we need from our t's and still be learning step by step to be independent? It seems like that's what's happening with you and your t. That is what i want with my t.

Rainbow said,

"It's not about her". That's so important to realize. Peaches, that's been a big part of the problem. We've wanted our therapy to be about HER and US, about our relationship."

I guess that's where i disagree to a point. I think, yes, the past pain in childhood of not getting needs met is not about me and my t: it is about me and my parents. But I also believe that the healing takes place in the present and, at least in part, in the relationship between t and patient.

It's a fine line beween T being there for us, and being there TOO much for us.

Well, yes. And maybe that is where my t and i are struggling to find the line.

How about writing a poem as a way to acknowledge your feelings now?

I think i'm still trying to get a handle on how i do feel. if i think up a poem, i'll post it.

Thanks for your reply, Rainbow. I know you care about me and just want the best for me.

Peaches,

It seems like your t is willing to give comforting hugs, but that she wants you to ask for what you need. My T does this, she won't offer things I may need because that would be her taking care of my needs. Taking care of your own needs doesn't mean you do it all by yourself, as i said in my previous post. It sounds like your T thinks because you can't or won't ask, maybe you are not ready. If she asks you if you need a hug, that is her taking care of your needs instead of you taking care of your needs. We all need others in life. It's okay to ask for what you want and need from others.

Mouse said,

"For me its like there was a part that was prevented from growing up, because it was stuck in limbo waiting for the natural time line of development, the nuturing mother to the new born amongst other things. . .

. . . this part that has lived in limbo wasn't capable of really giving...not in any real adult sense, it needed someone who was not needing any return, but someone that could devote to "it" like a mother to the newborn, and thats where T comes in. . .

..the relationship with her has been entirely about my needs...over the 5plus yrs with her that part stuck in limbo has recreated situations with her to enable further growth. . .

...but as I get what I needed so bad back in the past, the past becomes much less painful and almost dare I say, irrelavant now, because all we have is now and now is where I am getting my needs met...

its unresolved grief that keeps us stuck the past, stuck the pain...but one must have someone that has something to give..qulifications alone do not make a therapist...the humanbeing in the therapist is what matters the most..."

So would you say, Mouse, that the comfort from t is helping you grow toward independence? Do you believe that the comfort you receive from t prompts progress on your own part? It doesn't sound to me like it's a substitute for not grieving or not caring for your own needs. . .But that is how some here view wanting comfort from our t's.